D* installer Trouble

[ShawnL25]

I have posted this here because the receivers in question where running the latest CE. I had an installer come out to replace my multi switch in time for a little super bowl fun. I have 3 HR2x and one SD directivo (r-10?) 4-5 years old. I was having problems losing signal on one or more tuners in one or more rooms when the r-10 was connected to the multiswitch. As a temporary solution I connected 4 lines direct to the switch and then four out direct to the bedroom and living. This has solved my issues of signal loss and when I want to use the office dvr or garage tivo I just swap out lines. However I was planning on utilizing all of my tv’s Sunday and scheduled someone out to install a new multiswitch. I spoke to him on the phone when he arrived at my house explained what I needed and left him to it. He just called me back to tell me that in 20 years he’s never seen a problem like mine and that all of my receivers are broken. I asked him what he has done so far and he said after installing a new zidwell 6x8 he was able to see the issues I was talking about so he restarted the boxes and “updated” the software aka took me back to the NR. My understanding of the situation is that he has gone back to the previous set up of just the 2 primary HR2x. But certain channels aren’t working in certain rooms but are in the other. He also said there was no longer audio on the locals in my living room. He wants to replace my boxes. Could these problems be associated with rolling back the software or do I need to have him try another multiswitch. It is not the boxes though they worked fine last night. Thanks

[saryon]

Do *all* channels from *both* tuners work on *all* receivers when you've plumbed them straight to the LNB? If so it's the multiswitch. If not, there's a problem with the LNB. All the multiswitch does is take the 4 lines from the sats, lock them to specific frequencies (simplified) and route that signal to the receiver when it's looking for it. If the multiswitch has an issue (or one of the lines to the LNB - that's why I'm asking if *all* the receivers have *all* channels when directly connected) you'll lose certain channels accross all the receivers.

[ShawnL25]

Do *all* channels from *both* tuners work on *all* receivers when you've plumbed them straight to the LNB? If so it's the multiswitch. If not, there's a problem with the LNB. All the multiswitch does is take the 4 lines from the sats, lock them to specific frequencies (simplified) and route that signal to the receiver when it's looking for it. If the multiswitch has an issue (or one of the lines to the LNB - that's why I'm asking if *all* the receivers have *all* channels when directly connected) you'll lose certain channels accross all the receivers.

Do *all* channels from *both* tuners work on *all* receivers when you've plumbed them straight to the LNB? before today yes they did.

NOW

I spoke with him again and he says that ESPN (D11) will not work on tuner 2 in the bedroom but CNN (D10) will. In the living room CNN (D10) will not come in SSS, but ESPN2 (D11) will come in on tuner one but not tuner 2. He switched from a SL 5 to a SL 3 LNB and now all channels work in all rooms but if one ch is set to record the 2nd tuner takes 45 sec to aquire signal. I told him to but the 5 LNB back on.

[celblazer]

I had a similar problem and it was a pain to get fixed, four service calls and different techs, all clueless. The last one came out and since they had replaced the dish, BBC's and the multiswitch twice already he finally ran all new lines from the dish down to the multiswitch. This finally solved the problem. My receivers were all doing weird things thanks to bad lines. It took 3 weeks of frustration, half my system not working and way too many phone calls and missed appointment for them to fix it. So make sure they check and replace any iffy lines. Mine had multiple splices and bad connectors and nobody wanted to take the time to replace them and do the job right.

Good Luck,
Bernie

[azarby]

Do *all* channels from *both* tuners work on *all* receivers when you've plumbed them straight to the LNB? before today yes they did.

NOW

I spoke with him again and he says that ESPN (D11) will not work on tuner 2 in the bedroom but CNN (D10) will. In the living room CNN (D10) will not come in SSS, but ESPN2 (D11) will come in on tuner one but not tuner 2. He switched from a SL 5 to a SL 3 LNB and now all channels work in all rooms but if one ch is set to record the 2nd tuner takes 45 sec to aquire signal. I told him to but the 5 LNB back on.

It almost sounds like you have a pair of bad BBCs, one on each of the two boxes.

Bob

[bobvick1983]

I had a problem such as this with a Zinwell WB68 as well. I have two HR21's and one D12 that were running from a zinwell. I would get no signal on most transponders on all of the units (even the D12), particularly when it was very cold (below 20 degrees).
I fixed the problem by taking out the multiswitch and I have all four lines from the LNB running directly to the HR21's and the D12 is hooked up to an old single LNB round dish to get 101 programming.

[turey22]

Do *all* channels from *both* tuners work on *all* receivers when you've plumbed them straight to the LNB? before today yes they did.

NOW

I spoke with him again and he says that ESPN (D11) will not work on tuner 2 in the bedroom but CNN (D10) will. In the living room CNN (D10) will not come in SSS, but ESPN2 (D11) will come in on tuner one but not tuner 2. He switched from a SL 5 to a SL 3 LNB and now all channels work in all rooms but if one ch is set to record the 2nd tuner takes 45 sec to aquire signal. I told him to but the 5 LNB back on.

Is your problem better?

[ShawnL25]

Is your problem better?

no worse actually

When tuning to a mpeg4 station there is a delay of aprox. 30-45 sec of serching for sat before the picture comes up clear as day. Running a signal test yeilds zero's on bothe tuners on 99 and 103 but I am able to watch all channels from all sat's uninterupted after signal is aquired. I am a little bit puzzled as to what could have changed. He claims to have changed out all the connections and bbc's

[Incompetent]

I have seen something similar to this happen once before.

I was upgrading a SD system to HD and when i had replaced the 4x8 for a 6x8 one of the lines kept failing. I could switch the failing line to a differnt port and it would casue a different line to fail. After replacing all the cabling from the dish (50+ ft underground, wrapped 1/2 around the house then across the attic, no fun), switching out the lnb and multiswitch, i began inspecting the cables running to the IRDs. I found an old barrel INSIDE a wall that was the culprit. 4hours for a 30 minute job :(

From what you have posted I would assume either the cabling to the IRDs, to the LNB, or the LNB itself is faulty.

[saryon]

I'm thinking LNB or LNB cables myself.

[joe diamond]

This is going in the right direction.

Having read the above I would run a jumper from the LNB inside where it is warm and evaluate each receiver. If they run normally on the known-to-be-good cable you move to the existing lines, multiswitch, ground block and wall plates.

Pretty good thread.

Joe

By the way, the installer doing the service call was probably offered less than thirty dollars for this work.

[ShawnL25]

I'm thinking LNB or LNB cables myself.

He switched out the LNB and the problems persisted. The dish and lines to the house where all replaced back in October. I've had similar issues that have persisted longer than the dish and lnb have been installed. Here is what I've eliminated:

1. Dish
2. LNB
3. BBC
4. The 4x8, 6x8, older powered multiswitch none seem to fix issues
5. I have now gone around all grounding blocks and multiswitches; I have four lines tied to 4 extender barrels then run straight to the 2 primary HR's. Things wok again. This would seemingly indicate good wiring to those recievers.

Could the frequncy difference in the sd and hd receivers be to blame?

[ShawnL25]

I have seen something similar to this happen once before.

I was upgrading a SD system to HD and when i had replaced the 4x8 for a 6x8 one of the lines kept failing. I could switch the failing line to a differnt port and it would casue a different line to fail. After replacing all the cabling from the dish (50+ ft underground, wrapped 1/2 around the house then across the attic, no fun), switching out the lnb and multiswitch, i began inspecting the cables running to the IRDs. I found an old barrel INSIDE a wall that was the culprit. 4hours for a 30 minute job :(

From what you have posted I would assume either the cabling to the IRDs, to the LNB, or the LNB itself is faulty.

I found an old barrel INSIDE a wall...

Like the wall jack?

[Incompetent]

I found an old barrel INSIDE a wall...

Like the wall jack?

No, actually it was it was about 3 feet up inside the wall.

I would recommend checking the fittings that are connected behind the wall plates though. If the fittings were not put on during the initial install then perhaps one or more of the fittings could be the problem. I have seen many prewired houses where the builders just used screw-on fittings and the braid was strangling the center conductor.

[avmaster]

If you do a siginal test on the rcvrs how do the transponders look? If you have low or 0's on the even transponders that is most definitely a bad cable/fitting/barrel. the even transponders are selected by 18 v, if for some reason that cable has enough resistance to not get close enough to 18v to select that transponder you will get SFSS on those channels.

Good way to test it is at the multiswitch, use a multi-meter and check the voltage. All lines coming from the recievers should be either close to 13v or 18v, there will be a little loss but if its significant, you know there is a problem on that line.

[ShawnL25]

If you do a siginal test on the rcvrs how do the transponders look? If you have low or 0's on the even transponders that is most definitely a bad cable/fitting/barrel. the even transponders are selected by 18 v, if for some reason that cable has enough resistance to not get close enough to 18v to select that transponder you will get SFSS on those channels.

Good way to test it is at the multiswitch, use a multi-meter and check the voltage. All lines coming from the recievers should be either close to 13v or 18v, there will be a little loss but if its significant, you know there is a problem on that line.

I've gone back to just haveing four line connected directly to the dish, but as far as voltage goes I do get sparks when it's near the grounding block.