different slimline reflector versions?

[tritch]

I've been working on resolving my father's low 99/103 signal readings on his new HR23. Readings are in the 50 to 60's. I realigned the dish no help. I replaced the 5LNB with a new 3LNB, and the readings dropped another 10 points. Realigned the dish again no joy. If you try peaking the 103, I lose the 99 signal. If you peak the 99, you lose the 103. The 101 signals stay in the 90's. I figured it was a bad reflector, so I bought a new one off of ebay. Guess what, the new reflector won't fit because the holes are in a different location. The holes in the old reflector are 1 1/2 inches from the edge and the holes in the new reflector are 3 inches from the edge. The LNB arm won't allow the new reflector to fit. What gives? I never knew there were 2 different reflector versions. See attachment.

[veryoldschool]

If you're having problems with 99/103, then it sounds like you have a tilt adjustment problem.
Stick with the dish/LNB/reflector and don't try to "mix and match" as they made to work as a set.

[tritch]

The mast is perfectly plumb per the mast bubble. Since I'm using a SL3 LNB, the tilt has been set to the exact degree specified in the sat setup guide per his zip code. I never read anywhere in the forum that there were 2 different Slimline reflector versions?

I should note that I did try slightly moving tilt both ways to see if anything changed, but it didn't.

[veryoldschool]

The mast is perfectly plumb per the mast bubble. Since I'm using a SL3 LNB, the tilt has been set to the exact degree specified in the sat setup guide per his zip code. I never read anywhere in the forum that there were 2 different Slimline reflector versions?
The only ones I've seen are the Slimline 5 and the Slimline 3 dishes.
"If I" had a problem with my 99 & 103 levels where I could tune one or the other, but not both, then I would be adjusting the tilt so both the 99 & 103 would be centered on the beam/signal.

[tritch]

The only ones I've seen are the Slimline 5 and the Slimline 3 dishes.

That's odd. I've never read anywhere that there were different Slimline's, only the LNB's are different.

[veryoldschool]

That's odd. I've never read anywhere that there were different Slimline's, only the LNB's are different.
It may have been a "poor" image from Solidsignal [and not true] as I just checked and can't find what I saw before.

[tritch]

"If I" had a problem with my 99 & 103 levels where I could tune one or the other, but not both, then I would be adjusting the tilt so both the 99 & 103 would be centered on the beam/signal.

I should have made my original post a little clearer. I can get both the 99 & 103 at the same time, but the levels are never above 70. If you try to tweak the 99 to a level above 80 you lose the 103 sat. If you try to tweak the 103 above 80, you lose the 99 sat. This problem is very similar to this post.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=150910


I suspect a warped reflector is the culprit because if you peak the 99 or 103, the 99/101/103 should all be peaked. It's as if the reflector focal points for the different satellites are not being properly centered on the LNB "in the same spot".

[veryoldschool]

I should have made my original post a little clearer. I can get both the 99 & 103 at the same time, but the levels are never above 70. If you try to tweak the 99 to a level above 80 you lose the 103 sat. If you try to tweak the 103 above 80, you lose the 99 sat. This problem is very similar to this post.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=150910


I suspect a warped reflector is the culprit because if you peak the 99 or 103, the 99/101/103 should all be peaked. It's as if the reflector focal points for the different satellites are not being properly centered on the LNB "in the same spot".
If the reflector was "tweaked" you should be able to see the damage [bending].
Since the Ka beams are narrow, it still seems like a tilt issue, since you can get the levels above 80, but at the expense of the other Ka SAT level.
I would figure out which way the tilt is off [by which way the fine tuning needs to be adjusted for each] and then move the tilt one degree and try the fine tuning again, then repeat until both were nailed.
I guess I just understand "what" the alignments are there for, and tweak them so I get what I want out of them.
IF I can't get them to work, THEN I'd be looking for why, but so far it sounds like you can get the levels you need, but just haven't found how to get all of them at the same time.

[BattleZone]

There are at least 3 different manufacturers of the Slimline dish, and DirecTV stupidly allowed them to use different designs. The fine-tuning mechanism is universal, as are the LNBs, but the reflector and the arm and tilt assemblies are unique to each manufacturer, and must be replaced as a set.

Also, in my experience, it doesn't take much damage of the reflector to completely lose Ka signals. Edge damage is no big deal, but if it's bent or dented in the middle anywhere, it's toast and needs replacing.

[tritch]

If the reflector was "tweaked" you should be able to see the damage [bending].
Since the Ka beams are narrow, it still seems like a tilt issue, since you can get the levels above 80, but at the expense of the other Ka SAT level.
I would figure out which way the tilt is off [by which way the fine tuning needs to be adjusted for each] and then move the tilt one degree and try the fine tuning again, then repeat until both were nailed.
I guess I just understand "what" the alignments are there for, and tweak them so I get what I want out of them.
IF I can't get them to work, THEN I'd be looking for why, but so far it sounds like you can get the levels you need, but just haven't found how to get all of them at the same time.

Thanks VOS......I've been through the alignment procedure (dither method) using a Channel Master 1007IFD signal meter several times. The tilt was properly peaked on the 119 using 13v w/ 22khz tone. The azim/elev was also peaked on the 101 sat using 13v w/no tone. The fact that the 99 and 103 sats are not being peaked at the same position as the 101 sat is indicative to me of a bad reflector or LNB. I've already changed the LNB, so that leaves the reflector.

There are at least 3 different manufacturers of the Slimline dish, and DirecTV stupidly allowed them to use different designs. The fine-tuning mechanism is universal, as are the LNBs, but the reflector and the arm and tilt assemblies are unique to each manufacturer, and must be replaced as a set.

Also, in my experience, it doesn't take much damage of the reflector to completely lose Ka signals. Edge damage is no big deal, but if it's bent or dented in the middle anywhere, it's toast and needs replacing.

Thanks IIP.....this answers my question. I learn something new everyday! I suppose others who have ordered replacement reflectors just got lucky with the right model. Makes me wonder why Solid Signal is selling a reflector with no mention of the manufacturer. This could easily be the wrong one for me as well. I'll recommend that he replace the whole dish assy.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=SLREF-DISH

[hidefman]

.... Thanks IIP.....this answers my question. I learn something new everyday! I suppose others who have ordered replacement reflectors just got lucky with the right model. Makes me wonder why Solid Signal is selling a reflector with no mention of the manufacturer. This could easily be the wrong one for me as well. I'll recommend that he replace the whole dish assy.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=SLREF-DISH

Is there a source for just ordering the feedarm? or the back assembly plate? I also have a new reflector that will not mount on the old skew plate. I found the right skew plate, but am now just lacking the feedarm.

Any ideas? Thanks.....

[joe diamond]

I discovered the different mfg deal the hard way. To save space in the truck I take everything out of the cardboard boxes. When the HSP got a shipment from another mfg I discovered some parts...arms & dishes are not interchangeable and put "x" , "y" & "z" on them until I could swap around to one design.

The other thing in the bag of tricks is: the arms can be bent easily during assembly and afterward if the ground mount gets hit by deer, lawn trimmers or kids. Look for bends and or rust near the base of the arm. Try gently moving the arm with everything tight....observe the signal change if any. Then try moving JUST the LNB...remove their screws and see what ya get.

Joe

[hidefman]

I discovered the different mfg deal the hard way. To save space in the truck I take everything out of the cardboard boxes. When the HSP got a shipment from another mfg I discovered some parts...arms & dishes are not interchangeable and put "x" , "y" & "z" on them until I could swap around to one design.

The other thing in the bag of tricks is: the arms can be bent easily during assembly and afterward if the ground mount gets hit by deer, lawn trimmers or kids. Look for bends and or rust near the base of the arm. Try gently moving the arm with everything tight....observe the signal change if any. Then try moving JUST the LNB...remove their screws and see what ya get.

Joe

I certainly won't be bending feedarms to get them to work.

I am now finding out there are multiple versions of back assembly plates and feedarms to go with different versions of slimline reflectors. Even back assembly plates that fit the two slimline reflectors have different feedarm bolt-on patterns. If you are looking for the right part, it is hit and miss... you might find it if an independent installer will let you look through the comebacks in his backroom. A lot to do to find the right part... incentive to buy the complete dish kit assembly.

[RobertE]

You are best to buy the dish as a whole. Finding parts are going to be hit and miss. While a couple of parts are interchangeable between the manufacturers, most are not. Then you run into the question of, is this part damaged in some way that I don't see?

[matt]

Bump.

Is there a way to tell (measurements maybe) what reflector goes with what arm?

[jdspencer]

Here's another thought. If you can get 99 and 103 at about the same strengths. The next thing to adjust would be the elevation. See if that affects both 99 and 103 the same.

[tweaked]

There are at least 3 different manufacturers of the Slimline dish, and DirecTV stupidly allowed them to use different designs. The fine-tuning mechanism is universal, as are the LNBs, but the reflector and the arm and tilt assemblies are unique to each manufacturer, and must be replaced as a set.

I ran into this same issue a couple years back when I replaced a Slimline 5, AU9, (non-SWM) and discovered that there are at least two different reflector/LNB arm fastening designs. As far as the reflector and/or feed-arm's concerned, all's the same with exception of how they're connected. Each manufacturer has a different design with respect to fastener locations.

As mentioned in this thread, purchasing a complete set would seem to be the safest bet.

[tritch]

Although I opened this thread over a year ago, I failed to follow up with those who may be curious of the fix.....

I removed the reflector from my father's house and took it over to my house and temporarily swapped out reflectors. It just happened that we had the same reflector versions. It only took about 5 minutes to confirm the reflector was bad. Visually, you couldn't see anything wrong with the reflector, no physical damage whatsoever, not even a scratch.

Using the good reflector as a reference model, we took various depth measurements on the bad reflector and determined the reflector was slightly flattened at the apex of the curvature causing the focal point to the LNB to be slightly off center. We figured it was most likely damaged in shipment by something heavy being placed on top of it.

We tried flexing the curvature of the reflector and surprisingly it was very easy to bend. It was by no means very sturdy. The reflector was easily reshaped to closely match the dimensions of a good reflector and then was reinstalled at my father's house. The 99/101/103 satellite signals were all in the 90's now and it's been good ever since........