Now A-Rod

[Italia]

Not much to say here. Alex Rodriguez now admits to using steriods. Major League Baseball is on the bottom of my list for sports because of the steriods and performance enhancing drugs. That's just a simple short cut to cheat. Roger Maris & Hank Aaron were literally robbed of their records from cheaters and liars. I will never respect the game of baseball again until a commissioner....whether it be one of the worst sports commissioners ever,Bud Selig....or another, take a stance to wipe out the records of these cheaters. Until then, I will never respect this game that I once loved.

[txtommy]

Not much to say here. Alex Rodriguez now admits to using steriods. Major League Baseball is on the bottom of my list for sports because of the steriods and performance enhancing drugs.........

I too feel that steroids have seriously hurt baseball's image but it's pretty naive to think that other sports don't have the same problem. Selig and the owners ignored the problem until they saw it might start hurting their bottom line but it's the same elsewhere. The tests that each sport uses to detect PED's is always one step behind the chemists who are producing new, better and harder to detect formulas.

[tsmacro]

Yeah and A-Rod is just one of 103 other players that tested positive in that same test, I actually think that's a bigger deal than just one big name player. I guess i'd be more surprised to find out there were players who weren't using something at this point. Sad that it was allowed to get to the point where the whole sport is tainted, the first reaction to baseball these days is often a slow sad shake of the head with a downcast look.

[bobukcat]

My biggest complaint with MLB is that they are unwilling to really punish these players when they are caught - pehaps because so many of them are guilty and there may not be enough "MLB caliber" players to field all the teams if they suspended or banned them all. It was so obvious to observers of the game that some players were "juicing" (Bonds, McGuire, Sosa) that it was also an insult to our intelligence to say there was nothing going on.

They kicked Pete Rose out of the game and banned him from the HOF for betting on his team to win. IMHO using steroids to artificially improve your performance is much, much worse than that but you can bet they won't even consider suspending, much less banning A-Rod or even Bonds.

[dcowboy7]

a-roid.

[Stuart Sweet]

I agree that it absolutely sends the wrong message to our young people that cheating is ok. It is not. It's also not ok to ruin your body for the rest of your life for a chance at a career in sports.

I hope that their records are always marked with an asterisk at least, and that the admitted cheaters are stripped of every endorsement, banned from baseball and prohibited from the Hall of Fame. It does not matter if it was technically legal at the time, at some level someone knew it was wrong.

[Pepster]

I have mixed feelings here, While I certainly don't condone cheating by allowing people to use performance enhancing drugs, I also want to acknowledge that we NOW KNOW about Alex Rodriguez's failed test because someone else engaged IN THEIR OWN form of cheating. Supposedly, these were SEALED documents.

We frequently get a bunch of self righteous pontification from people who have "a) NEVER done anything wrong and b) NEVER WILL do anything wrong" everytime another failed drug test is announced as if sports is the most important thing going on.

Now they want to go back after Miguel Tejada.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3896877

[EXTACAMO]

"Just win baby." That's all that matters in this society. Sadly.

[Ferenczy]

...personally I think there should be no asterisk or any other 'sign' after a record that is achieved in baseball. Players throughout it's history have indulged in one form or another of cheating to get ahead. Whether it's alcohol of the early era, cocaine and other drugs of the 70's/80's/90's or steroid abuse in todays game. You can't acknowledge one player and say another cheated.

At the same time I am tired of the lame assed excuse "...steroids weren't banned by baseball at the time..." They were obtaining them illegally and violating numerous state and federal laws. Period. IMHO they are just as bad as many politicians today, never more apologetic and concerned with their legacy and the people that pay their salaries (in some way or another) than when they get caught doing wrong.

It's absofrigginposolutely hilarious that they're going after Miguel Tejada now for allegedly 'lying to congress'. Congress lies to us every day of the year, who're they going to appear in front of? Work on fixing the economy crisis and leave entertainers to the (not so) entertained...

...sorry folks, rant made off

[CapeCodder]

I think baseball has to make some concession to the guys who didn't cheat. At the very least, records tainted by "enhanced performance" should be flagged as such. And, of course, Hall of Fame recognition should be dismissed for cheating, just as it was for Pete Rose's gambling. Times were much better in the Babe Ruth era of baseball. He got his records the old fashioned way by stoking his body on just three nutrients - hot dogs, beer, and p*ssy - now that's what I call an American icon! :)

[machavez00]

I think baseball has to make some concession to the guys who didn't cheat. At the very least, records tainted by "enhanced performance" should be flagged as such. And, of course, Hall of Fame recognition should be dismissed for cheating, just as it was for Pete Rose's gambling. Times were much better in the Babe Ruth era of baseball. He got his records the old fashioned way by stoking his body on just three nutrients - hot dogs, beer, and p*ssy - now that's what I call an American icon! :)

There was talk on MLB network during an "A-Rod Special Report" that the single season and career HR records go back to Maris and Aaron

[Pepster]

...personally I think there should be no asterisk or any other 'sign' after a record that is achieved in baseball. Players throughout it's history have indulged in one form or another of cheating to get ahead. Whether it's alcohol of the early era, cocaine and other drugs of the 70's/80's/90's or steroid abuse in todays game. You can't acknowledge one player and say another cheated.

At the same time I am tired of the lame assed excuse "...steroids weren't banned by baseball at the time..." They were obtaining them illegally and violating numerous state and federal laws. Period. IMHO they are just as bad as many politicians today, never more apologetic and concerned with their legacy and the people that pay their salaries (in some way or another) than when they get caught doing wrong.

It's absofrigginposolutely hilarious that they're going after Miguel Tejada now for allegedly 'lying to congress'. Congress lies to us every day of the year, who're they going to appear in front of? Work on fixing the economy crisis and leave entertainers to the (not so) entertained...

...sorry folks, rant made off

Hopefully, there are some SANE people in Washington after all. I just heard a statement read on the "Miked Up Show Host: Make Fransessa" that the Chairperson for the Committee on the Oversight of Governement Reform is stating that no one will be called to Washington to again give testimony over this steroid nonsense.

[Steve615]

From mlb.com & The Washington Post:
In other MLB/steroid related news,Miguel Tejada was charged earlier today with lying to congressional investigators about the use of "performance enhancing drugs" in baseball.
He is scheduled to appear tomorrow at 11AM ET in U.S. District Court in Washington,D.C.
It is expected that he will plead guilty to the charge.

NOTE:
Tejada is not being charged with lying about the allegations of his own steroid use.
Prosecutors are accusing him of giving false statements about his conversations with another player,former A's teammate Adam Piatt,about steroids and HGH (human growth hormone).

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090210&content_id=3814502&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb&partnerId=rss_mlb#_tab

[JM Anthony]

I have long ago given up on professional sports. Give me a good college or even high school game any day.

John

[djlong]

For all of you who want to re-write the record books - rememeber a few things.

1) Andro, the now-banned-but-then-legal substance that Mark McGwire was using was *legal* when he used it and hit the 70 home runs. Maybe you want to "dismiss" Bond's single-season record, but McGwire? Think carefully about that.

2) Gaylord Perry, who only got caught spitballing once (by manager Darrell Johnson of the Boston Red Sox) admitted to his cheating after he retired and STILL made it into the Hall of Fame.

And if you were to justify removing Bond's record on the basis that he did something *illegal* (remember, he's on trial for obstructing justice, not taking steroids) think about all the laws that were broken by all the ballplayers in the past. Think VERY carefully.

[bobukcat]

For all of you who want to re-write the record books - rememeber a few things.

1) Andro, the now-banned-but-then-legal substance that Mark McGwire was using was *legal* when he used it and hit the 70 home runs. Maybe you want to "dismiss" Bond's single-season record, but McGwire? Think carefully about that.

2) Gaylord Perry, who only got caught spitballing once (by manager Darrell Johnson of the Boston Red Sox) admitted to his cheating after he retired and STILL made it into the Hall of Fame.

And if you were to justify removing Bond's record on the basis that he did something *illegal* (remember, he's on trial for obstructing justice, not taking steroids) think about all the laws that were broken by all the ballplayers in the past. Think VERY carefully.

You're right, let's just legalize all the performance enhancers and let them go all out like this: :-)

http://www.hulu.com/watch/4090/saturday-night-live-weekend-update-all-drug-olympics

[Lord Vader]

My biggest complaint with MLB is that they are unwilling to really punish these players when they are caught -

MLB is quite willing to punish the players; they're just not allowed to. The MLB Players Association, which is the single most powerful union in the United States (trust me, it is), is the sole reason why MLB has been so lax in its enforcement and discipline of this issue. The Players Association has its hands involved so deeply into the day-to-day operation of MLB that it even has veto power over rule changes! That makes it the only sport where the players retain the right to nix any changes to the rules under which they play.

Talking about the inmates running the asylum! :nono2:

[Pepster]

MLB is quite willing to punish the players; they're just not allowed to. The MLB Players Association, which is the single most powerful union in the United States (trust me, it is), is the sole reason why MLB has been so lax in its enforcement and discipline of this issue. The Players Association has its hands involved so deeply into the day-to-day operation of MLB that it even has veto power over rule changes! That makes it the only sport where the players retain the right to nix any changes to the rules under which they play.

Talking about the inmates running the asylum! :nono2:

The link below courtesy of ESPN shows MLB's current policy for performance enhancement products.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2224832

The current policy came into effect in 2005, so there's no need fussing about punishing someone for offenses committed prior to the time that the policy was in effect (i.e. a failed test in 2003).

[Lord Vader]

Even the current policy is too lax, thanks to the Players Association.

[durl]

A-Rod has learned the lesson that it helps to just come out and admit that you took the stuff. He just learned it after he denied using earlier.

But one thing that struck me was when he said that having such a huge contract at Texas put so much pressure on him that he felt that he needed to show that he was worthy of the money. Problem is, he WANTED the huge contract. He made it sound as though the Rangers made the trade and later surprised him with how much they were going to pay him.

He went for the "victim mentality" play. That pretty much eliminated any doubt I may have had about whether he was sincerely remorseful for using. It's sad, too. Torre said that A-Rod worked his rear end off. I respect players that put in the extra effort.

[Steve615]

From mlb.com & The Washington Post:
In other MLB/steroid related news,Miguel Tejada was charged earlier today with lying to congressional investigators about the use of "performance enhancing drugs" in baseball.
He is scheduled to appear tomorrow at 11AM ET in U.S. District Court in Washington,D.C.
It is expected that he will plead guilty to the charge.

NOTE:
Tejada is not being charged with lying about the allegations of his own steroid use.
Prosecutors are accusing him of giving false statements about his conversations with another player,former A's teammate Adam Piatt,about steroids and HGH (human growth hormone).

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090210&content_id=3814502&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb&partnerId=rss_mlb#_tab

As expected,Tejada pleaded guilty to the charge today.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090211&content_id=3817206&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

The "Hot Stove" show on MLB Network last night contained some dialogue that suggested Tejada had made a plea bargain deal in regards to that charge.

[sigma1914]

I have long ago given up on professional sports. Give me a good college or even high school game any day.

John

Yeah, because college sports are corrupt free. :rolleyes:

[tsmacro]

http://sports.iwon.com/news/02122009/v7619.htm

I mean puh-leez, saying that A-rod shamed the game?! Yeah let just conveniently forget how MLB was willing to look the other way for years as long as those juiced up players kept creaming those home runs that drew fans to the parks and increased revenue. Basically their policy amounted to, well just make sure you have no needles sticking in your behind while signing autographs for the kiddies and we'll pretend we don't think that performance enhancing drugs are really that prevalent and don't have to worry about it. Not saying what A-Rod or everyone else who was juiced did was right, but let be real here, Bud Selig just sounds like just about the biggest hypocrite in the world by making a statement like this. Sorry there's more than enough shame to go around and trying to deflect it onto one player, no matter who he is, is just really :icon_lame !!!

[CapeCodder]

Let's humiliate the cheaters. How about every player has to have a photograph taken of his 'nads during his physicals, and those with ones the size of peanuts who get to the Hall have to forever display the photos next to their plaque as evidence of their "performance enhancement" activity. :D

[Balestrom]

I do not like the idea of steroids in baseball or any other sport. I do think it ruins the game and gives the national pastime a black eye. I look at my 8 year old boy and wonder what he will think.

With that said, here are my thoughts...

Gambling was a major issue in the early part of the century... players threw games.. etc... but the game lived on. No matter how many games might have been affected by those who were bought out, we don't think of striking records or games or seasons as a result of that problem. Part because proof was lacking and part because gambling became a huge past time as well.

You can look through the national pastime and find events... drugs, wars pulling key players out of the game, gamgling and more drugs, racism and still its our national pastime.

Beyond that Baseball is a business, a unique one but a business. It makes its rules and punishes according to how the deem the punishment should fit. For the Congress to step in and try to provide advice or oversite is quite cute but void of value. They need to keep out... it only serves to make them look foolish and players equally foolish.

If laws were broken at the time, its up to the state or feds to go after players. If A-Rod broke a law, let law enforcement handle it. If laws are broken today, but there is no rule a baseball that forbids it, then law enforcement should step in.

But to say that a rule was broken when the act occurred before it was enacted is devoid of logic. Did A-Rod ethically do something wrong, yes, because of state and federal laws. Did he break any rules inside the business of baseball... nope.

Like gambling in the early days, who is on the take is not quite clear. What is clear to me is that if baseball put an asterik by his name or took away a record that he broke, then they had better be very certain that other record holders, other players didn't do the very same thing.

Stats are meant as a measuring tool, they define one's success against others. They numbers based on facts. To start messing with one players numbers due to feelings or thoughts or ideals suddenly take the facts out of the numbers and removes the ability to measure. So A-Rod used steriods, his2003 gets removed from his totals and the year. The next guy below him moves up an suddenly he leads in Home Runs that year, but what if he tooks steroids and nobody knows? How did that make the stats more factual, how did that keep the stats logcial? What does that do to the one true measuring stick?

Let say 150 players, many of the leaders in SB, RBI, HR, K's etc... used steroids that year. What do we do with the stats if we only know for sure that 20 of them actually used steroids?

What if another record holder in the 50's took speed or cocaine and someone in 2008 that uses steroids broke that record? What moral measuring stick do you use then?

Oh well, just some of my thoughts on this. I will shut up now and take a breath. :D

[bobukcat]

No matter how many games might have been affected by those who were bought out, we don't think of striking records or games or seasons as a result of that problem. Part because proof was lacking and part because gambling became a huge past time as well.



Oh well, just some of my thoughts on this. I will shut up now and take a breath. :D

They banned all of the "eight men out" from the game and the HOF for life, even though they were eventually acquitted in the criminal trials (granted there was the mysterious loss of evidence). You can argue that taking drugs isn't as bad as throwing games but I'll go back to Pete Rose who was also banned for life despite ANY evidence at all that he ever threw a game (and most who ever watched him play would never believe he'd do it for any amount of money) but was only deemed to have bet on the game. With that in mind I still firmly believe the lack of suspensions / banishment of these "star" players is seriously flawed.

The fact is that MLB was reeling from the labor strikes, attendance and viewers were way down and having a nice home-run race and a few new "heroes" of the game drew people back to it. I'm convinced they were well aware of what was going on but decided it was better for the business to let it continue.

[djlong]

We didn't award the 1919 World Series to the White Sox. The records stay.

While I feel some level of disappointment in the players who juiced, I will say this. They are *infinitely* more honorable than Manny Ramirez.

Those guys cheated trying to do BETTER. Ramirez tanked ON PURPOSE because he wasn't happy. He made the comment during the summer that he was like the price of gas - going up. Now that gas is less than half of it's peak, you don't hear him saying that. He still wants over $20M.

It used to be that when a player put himself before the team, it meant something like him not laying down a sacrifice bunt. Now it means putting a hole in the lineup far worse than anything Pete Rose did.

Anyone who talks about the "integrity of the game" should push for a lifetime ban on Ramirez because he was not even *trying*. At least A-Rod, Giambi, Bonds, Clemens and the rest of them were trying to be better than humanly possible.