eSata Deletion Issue

[freshone]

I have a Thecus 2050 running off an HR21-100. It's always been extremely stable and reliable.

But lately things have not been so good. I don't know what, why or how it happened but now, EVERY TIME I lose power, the friggin thing LOSES EVERYTHING. It's NEVER happened before, but now for the second time in as many months, I lost it all.

Could this be something with the latest update it took? Any one else have any issues. I know people will say, add a UPS but I don't really want to especialy since I never had to.

I don't get it but....thought someone would have an idea or theory.

I guess things have been too good with it for so long that something HAD to happen!!

Thanks as always.

[Stuart Sweet]

I really don't know, but I do have to remind everyone that eSATA is an unsupported feature, use at your own risk.

It does sound to me that the disk itself may need reformatting, if the DVR is finding enough problems with it that the programs all disappear.

[freshone]

Yeah I know....just bums me out. And maybe you are right! Maybe I should just throw some new drives in there although there is nothing to lead me to believe that they are bad but.

[oakwcj]

I think there may be something more than a failing drive involved here. I, too, lost everything on my ESATA drive this week. I posted a diagnostic report, because I thought it might have been related to the most recent CE, but I've since noticed two or three other posts this week in different threads detailing the same issue. In my case, I noticed the blue light ring on my HR20-700 rotating. I turned on the TV and found that the DVR was rebooting. It seemed to be stuck on Step 1, so I did an RBR. It took an unusually long time for the boot process to complete. My recordings, To Do list, prioritizer, and favorites were all gone. There was no power outage, so I have no idea what caused the reboot in the first place. I know the feature is technically "unsupported" although it's been in operation since October 2006. I haven't read about this kind of failure until very recently, although it's possible that I simply missed or overlooked earlier reports because it hadn't yet happened to me.

[Villager]

This seems to be a function of the HR21-100. I've used two different eSATA drives, and the external drive is always reformatted on rebooting on this unit. I also have an HR20-700, and this never happens. There are a number of reports in this Forum that the HR21-100 is a different beast when it comes to eSATA.

[jdmaxell]

For the hundreds we pay monthly, it should be supported!

[t_h]

Got the external drive on a UPS? If not, chances are after the power went out and came back, the drive wasnt fully ready to roll when the HR queried it, but the HR saw that it had one, not fully responsive, and decided to format it since it figured the disk was empty.

Be sort of nice if the HR waited a few moments for an external to spin all the way up, then give it a try.

Some esatas are also made to be hot pluggable and some...dont work so well with that capability. Its possible that enclosures that arent used to being yammered at by the host when they're spinning up think this is a hot plug and go off down some "but I dont DO that..." road.

I've solved a fair slice of DVR and external drive problems with an el cheapo $10-20 (after rebates and coupons) small UPS. But we get a lot of sags and brownouts here and plenty of 1-2 second blinks in our power. Ten minutes rebooting in the middle of a recording over a 2 second blip or weird problems from a brownout are good things to avoid.

[Rich]

I have a Thecus 2050 running off an HR21-100. It's always been extremely stable and reliable.

But lately things have not been so good. I don't know what, why or how it happened but now, EVERY TIME I lose power, the friggin thing LOSES EVERYTHING. It's NEVER happened before, but now for the second time in as many months, I lost it all.

Could this be something with the latest update it took? Any one else have any issues. I know people will say, add a UPS but I don't really want to especialy since I never had to.

I don't get it but....thought someone would have an idea or theory.

I guess things have been too good with it for so long that something HAD to happen!!

Thanks as always.

When you say you lose power, could you be more specific? I can tell you that I've never had a problem like yours and I don't use any UPS on anything.

One thing I've noticed about the NRs is that they produce a "weeding out" of "weak" HRs. Don't know how else to explain that.

When you have a power loss that lasts, say, 5 minutes, the HR might boot up using the internal drive. The last two NRs that came on top of each other, I had one of eight HRs boot up on the internal drive. That's 16 reboots on those two NRs.

Booting up on the internal drive should be the worst thing that happens. Even with a blip on the power, if it is long enough to power down both the HR and the eSATA, the eSATA spins up so quickly that it will usually be the dominant hard drive when the reboot is complete.

But then Villager states in his post that it seems to be somewhat normal on a 21-100.

This should be interesting. t_h might well be right in suggesting the UPS. If you only have the problem when you have a power loss, a UPS would make sense.

Rich

[Villager]

Yes, my eSATA drive(s) are on a UPS so they should not power down on a reboot unless the HR21-100 is telling it to power down. If it is powered down by the reboot procedure, then it is possible that it has not come back up to full speed in time for the HR21 to see it properly. Again, this does not happen with a Seagate FAP on the HR20-700 that I also use.

[t_h]

One thing I've noticed about the NRs is that they produce a "weeding out" of "weak" HRs. Don't know how else to explain that.


Speculation time.

I think each of these receivers has a wide range of tolerances in a variety of areas, and each model type has different tolerance issues and different ranges.

The software tries to accommodate these deltas, but I imagine at some point they have to do something that works for the 90-95% middle ground and let customer service replace boxes or LNB's for what falls off the edge.

As a complete WAG, I suspect the recent code divergence among models and the lack of an HR20-100 update for a while, coupled with the very slow rollout of this release is a result of these tolerance issues. They tightened something up and made it more box specific and they're waiting to see how many people call up with a newly "broken" box.

[Rich]

Yes, my eSATA drive(s) are on a UPS so they should not power down on a reboot unless the HR21-100 is telling it to power down. If it is powered down by the reboot procedure, then it is possible that it has not come back up to full speed in time for the HR21 to see it properly. Again, this does not happen with a Seagate FAP on the HR20-700 that I also use.

If the eSATAs retain their power thru a UPS and the HRs don't, the eSATA should always be the dominant hard drive after a power outage.

I've watched NRs come down and I don't recall (this means I'm not sure and might be wrong, again) ever seeing the eSATAs shutdown.

Rich

[Rich]

Speculation time.

I think each of these receivers has a wide range of tolerances in a variety of areas, and each model type has different tolerance issues and different ranges.

Agreed, even tho a large group on the forum believes that all HRs are created equal. A belief that I find amazing.

The software tries to accommodate these deltas, but I imagine at some point they have to do something that works for the 90-95% middle ground and let customer service replace boxes or LNB's for what falls off the edge.

For clarification (something one rarely has to do on t_h's posts), "delta" means "the difference between".

As a complete WAG, I suspect the recent code divergence among models and the lack of an HR20-100 update for a while, coupled with the very slow rollout of this release is a result of these tolerance issues. They tightened something up and made it more box specific and they're waiting to see how many people call up with a newly "broken" box.

Well, you said it better than I did, but that's exactly what I meant. A certain percentage of HRs are always gonna be adversely affected by NRs and will be "weeded out".

Rich

[Rich]

Wow, you must be impressed by all the help you're getting!

Rich

I have a Thecus 2050 running off an HR21-100. It's always been extremely stable and reliable.

But lately things have not been so good. I don't know what, why or how it happened but now, EVERY TIME I lose power, the friggin thing LOSES EVERYTHING. It's NEVER happened before, but now for the second time in as many months, I lost it all.

Could this be something with the latest update it took? Any one else have any issues. I know people will say, add a UPS but I don't really want to especialy since I never had to.

I don't get it but....thought someone would have an idea or theory.

I guess things have been too good with it for so long that something HAD to happen!!

Thanks as always.

[ctwilliams]

I think there may be something more than a failing drive involved here. I, too, lost everything on my ESATA drive this week. I posted a diagnostic report, because I thought it might have been related to the most recent CE, but I've since noticed two or three other posts this week in different threads detailing the same issue. In my case, I noticed the blue light ring on my HR20-700 rotating. I turned on the TV and found that the DVR was rebooting. It seemed to be stuck on Step 1, so I did an RBR. It took an unusually long time for the boot process to complete. My recordings, To Do list, prioritizer, and favorites were all gone. There was no power outage, so I have no idea what caused the reboot in the first place. I know the feature is technically "unsupported" although it's been in operation since October 2006. I haven't read about this kind of failure until very recently, although it's possible that I simply missed or overlooked earlier reports because it hadn't yet happened to me.

I have had an hr20-700 since the beginning and added a esata drive as soon as it was "unsupported". I lost everything three different times while participating in the program that is not talked about.

There were more than a few that had the same thing happen to them, but it was never directly addressed by directv or anyone so I quit downloading them and the problem has not occurred in the last year.

ct

[t_h]

For clarification (something one rarely has to do on t_h's posts), "delta" means "the difference between".

I had actually meant a triangular shaped alluvial deposit left where a river meets a standing body of water, but your definition also fits.

[t_h]

Not as cheap as they can be had at times, but not bad. This is the one that I have my upstairs HR20/esata on:

http://www.staples.com/office/supplies/StaplesProductDisplay?PID=1225267&jspStoreDir=Staples&catalogId=10051&cm_mmc=CJ-_-1225267-_-1225267-_-10422268&langId=-1&SID=u424272t0f0fp18251c0s146&AID=10422268&partNumber=661852&storeId=10001

$29AR for 550va/330w UPS. With just those two plugged in, it should ride along for at least 15-20 minutes. Dont plug your tv into the battery side...

[Rich]

I have had an hr20-700 since the beginning and added a esata drive as soon as it was "unsupported". I lost everything three different times while participating in the program that is not talked about.

There were more than a few that had the same thing happen to them, but it was never directly addressed by directv or anyone so I quit downloading them and the problem has not occurred in the last year.

ct

I would expect that to happen. Beta testing on your own equipment...

Rich

[Rich]

I had actually meant a triangular shaped alluvial deposit left where a river meets a standing body of water, but your definition also fits.

Only reason I knew what it meant was that I had a ''yuppie" boss that was always butchering the language and he used "delta" in a staff meeting one day. I went and looked it up and the next time he used it in a staff meeting, the two of us were the only ones who knew what he meant.

Had a huge argument with him about using the non-word "irregardless", which will undoubtedly make the dictionary one of these days if it hasn't already. The spelling checker I am using just recognized it.

Rich

[freshone]

As a complete WAG, I suspect the recent code divergence among models and the lack of an HR20-100 update for a while, coupled with the very slow rollout of this release is a result of these tolerance issues. They tightened something up and made it more box specific and they're waiting to see how many people call up with a newly "broken" box.

YES! That's what I was talking about. I used to have blips...and full outages. I can tell you that I NEVER lost anything.

And Rich, I can't tell you if the power went off or blipped as I was not home at the time. All I know is that it goes out because some of the clocks are blinking.

Anyways, I guess I will have to take all your advisements to buy a UPS for the stupid thing. The reason why I got 1TB was so that I could actualy KEEP whatever I wanted but....hey, it needed a good purging anyways I guess. But twice in a row!?

And Rich..again, YES I AM impressed! THANKS!

THANKS to all for all the chatter, I really do appreciate it!

You guys are the BESTEST!!

[Rich]

YES! That's what I was talking about. I used to have blips...and full outages. I can tell you that I NEVER lost anything.

And Rich, I can't tell you if the power went off or blipped as I was not home at the time. All I know is that it goes out because some of the clocks are blinking.

Anyways, I guess I will have to take all your advisements to buy a UPS for the stupid thing. The reason why I got 1TB was so that I could actualy KEEP whatever I wanted but....hey, it needed a good purging anyways I guess. But twice in a row!?

And Rich..again, YES I AM impressed! THANKS!

THANKS to all for all the chatter, I really do appreciate it!

You guys are the BESTEST!!

I'm not a big proponent of UPS usage. A lot of time a UPS will mask a serious electrical problem. In your case, purchasing a UPS will probably solve your problem, but your eSATA should take dominance if the outage is long enough to make your clocks shutdown too.

Have you asked your neighbors if they are having the same power problems? If you're the only one that is having the problem, you might well be masking a serious electrical problem with a UPS. I live on a court and all five of the houses are fed from one transformer that feeds only those five houses, so it is easy for me to find out if any problems I have are experienced by the other four homes.

In any case, the eSATA should, usually, take over the HR after a power outage. Again, the worst that should happen is that you have to pull the plug on the HR and reboot so the eSATA can take over.

All things considered, were I you, I'd be looking to replace the HR before spending money on a quick fix. These things don't get better, they get worse and you're still liable to have problems even with a UPS.

Rich

[freshone]

Okay, I hear what you are saying. But I may have been unclear (or my FAVORITE...I may have misspoken). Each time there was a genuine issue with the power. Most recent we had 50-60 mph winds and so yes, in the past, that usualy casues a blip or two. The time before that I can't remember but it was also a case of where I could see the power going out.

Also, you mention getting a new unit. What is the latest and greatest and how much would it cost me?

If I told you how I got my current one you would not believe it. Speaking of all these electrical problems, two summers ago the house took a lighting hit. The 700 I had was fried and I got this current one as a replacement. Also took out the kid's Wii.

Anyways, maybe I should just get another one? Is it still $99?

[Rich]

Okay, I hear what you are saying. But I may have been unclear (or my FAVORITE...I may have misspoken). Each time there was a genuine issue with the power. Most recent we had 50-60 mph winds and so yes, in the past, that usualy casues a blip or two. The time before that I can't remember but it was also a case of where I could see the power going out.

Also, you mention getting a new unit. What is the latest and greatest and how much would it cost me?

If I told you how I got my current one you would not believe it. Speaking of all these electrical problems, two summers ago the house took a lighting hit. The 700 I had was fried and I got this current one as a replacement. Also took out the kid's Wii.

Anyways, maybe I should just get another one? Is it still $99?

Kinda depends on the CSR you get. You should be able to get a replacement for the HR you have. That is not normal for an HR to keep reformatting an eSATA, but since D* does not "support" the eSATA function you can't use that as an excuse for a replacement.

D* is selling them for $199 + $19.99 for shipping and handling and Costco has them for $169.

The best one? I prefer the 700s. If you can find a 23-700 I'd get that. Or a 21-200 or a 21-700.

Doesn't sound like you've got a power problem aside from normal outages. But there has to be something wrong with the HR if it causes the eSATA to reformat. That should never happen unless you choose to do it.

Rich