The Matrix Reloaded

[Sherlock]

Caught the movie during a sneak preview yesterday. Less gunplay than the first one and more kung fu. Neo fighting Agent Smith/s was something to see. The highway chase is most excellent. I can't wait for the follow-up in November. Who else has seen it and what did you think was revealed by the ending?

[Danny R]

I think they did a great job with the sequel. It didn't have the WOW factor that I had when watching the first one, but that is because the ideas were so new back then. However the intellectual level was much higher. The only annoying thing about the movie in my mind was that they used too much slo-mo. It was actually distracting at times.

Spoilers lurk below, so be warned.

I loved the new levels of complexity as we delved into other programmed intelligences.

I think the ending showed that the Oracle was just another machine and not to be trusted. Her job was to safeguard the Matrix by leading the anomoly where it was supposed to go. The level of complexity of the whole Matrix pushed up another notch in a big way.

I'll have to rewatch to be certain, but exactly what was the choice Neo had to make at the end? To save Trinity but lose Zion, or to destroy the matrix but kill all of humanity who's still plugged into the matrix in the process? If that was the choice (I'm uncertain, then it seems the matrix always rigs it so that the One lets Zion get destroyed, right?

Likewise the councellor's speech seems to indicate that the final solution will leave machines and humanity working together, perhaps as a compromise to destroying Smith's viral behavior?

[Unthinkable]

Saw this one Thursday afternoon and was very impressed with it. I really didn't care much for the original Matrix (actually really disliked it a lot and chalked it up as a rather disappointing movie experience focusing on excessive flash and hyper sensational style at the expense of actual substance shrouded in too much unfulfilled hype), but I think in retrospect that had more to do with me not realizing at the time that it was the first in a three part series which wasn't meant to be all properly summed up at its tail end. This one had it all imo. Trinity was outstanding on the Ducati bike and hella fun to watch driving the Cadillac as well. Seeing her weaving in and out of traffic on the freeway takes your breath away. Neo's fight scene in the park was really well choreographed. Enjoyed the story and the action to the same level this time around and am now wanting to re-watch the original one with a much more open-minded take on things. I dismissed it far too easily the first time around. Shame on me. Can't wait for The Matrix Revolutions in November now.

[Unthinkable]

http://www.techtv.com/callforhelp/mac/story/0,24330,3428897,00.html

[jrjcd]

pyrotechnics aside(and all things consdered, the CGI in this film is atari awful), this is a total waste of two hours-pendatic doesn't begin to describe the writing and i suspect they blew the budget on the one coming out in november-the movie doesn't make very much sense and even suggests that the "real" world might be just another layer of matrix(am not sure, because nothing was making much sense at that point)-in all, they could have told this story as the first half hour of the revolutions film-very much the let down-wait for this on satellite and use the money to go get some baskin robbins...

[Mike123abc]

I think that Neo is not human either. It became clear at the end that he is an AI. I now assume that zion is not real either . It is a matrix inside the matrix. How else could he control the hunters at the end? How else could the program (oracle and creator) know all about him.... how else could the Agent take over humans? Zion is in the matrix.

[Ken_F]

jrj,

The movie made plenty of sense to me. There were just a few questions raised at the end.

I think that Neo is not human either. It became clear at the end that he is an AI.I don't agree with that.
I now assume that zion is not real either.According to the designer, zion has been destroyed and rebuilt five times, meaning the matrix is possibly several thousand years old, rather than the 200(or was it 100?) years thought and expressed by Morpheus in the first film.

How else could the program (oracle and creator) know all about him.... how else could the Agent take over humans?The creator and oracle can see everything that goes on in the matrix. Moreover, when one is connected to the matrix, its not incomprehensible that certain programs would have access to an individual's thoughts and emotions, particularly when in direct contact.

As far as the agent, he has taken on virus-like properties. In the trailer for the third film, we saw hundreds upon hundreds of Mr. Smiths lined up as they (he and Neo) do battle. We learned in the first film that an individual's signature can be changed (trying to "crack" Morpheus to gain the codes to Zion). It's also obvious that individuals can be altered through downloads, as seen through the various training programs; the complete replacement of the individual's consciousness with Mr. Smith's signature is just an extension of that.

It is a matrix inside the matrix. How else could he control the hunters at the end? That is certainly one possibility. Another possibility is that the end scene was intended to make Neo believe he was out of the Matrix, when he really was not. If Neo did not know he was in the Matrix, he could probably be killed. Some ideas from another forum:One idea is that the real world is within a matrix itself. I don't think that's the case, seems to easy and bland. Maybe it was just good timing that the ship made it there in time for the rescue and killed the machines. Perhaps Neo sensing the machines is part of his link with Smith, but they are linked by Neo's actions in the previous movie.

The other six "the ones" helped found the previous Zions I believe. Someone (in the gaming forums) mentioned that maybe the one councilman could be a previous "the one" but I don't know how that works within terms of lifespan and how long this current Zion has been around (I think Morpheus said 100 years, which on a side note made me think of the 100 years War)

Is the prophecy a farce? Yes, no, and maybe. The machines don't believe it, so they allow it to be retold since they know how to control it (or so they think). If you think about it, "the one" always saves humanity, even though most of them die (I believe the architect says that), because he sets 17 (it was 17 right) people free to restart Zion. Though it could turn out that he Neo/the one saves everyone in the end.

I think the oracle isn't a tool, but allowed to do her thing since she is deemed harmless. She is also an indirect (or direct really) way of funneling the one into the machines control. Perhaps the machines allow Zion to be rebuilt because they feel that it isn't costly and is completely controllable. It might be inefficient trying to deter it.

Or maybe they do believe the prophecy and by trying to get "the one" to choose the rebuild Zion door they are delaying any possibility of the prophecy coming true.
In Reloaded, it seemed to me that Neo was undergoing a transformation. For example, he was having visions in his dreams, much like the oracle herself. It's not clear what's responsible for this transformation, or what enabled Neo to control the machines outside of the Matrix.

It could have something to do with his link to Mr. Smith--some integration of code between Mr. Smith and Neo during the first movie. We learn that Mr. Smith's character outside the matrix was the lone survivor of the sentinel attack; perhaps the means to control the machines was somehow passed to Neo. From the looks of it, the body whom Mr. Smith occupies may be in some kind of coma, just like Neo.

Or, it could be the result of Neo's contact with the source (going through the door of light). If "the one" was going to help rebuild Zion, he would have obviously required the machines' help. It seems likely that the machines had a significant role in the last re-building of Zion some 100-200 years ago, given its complex core infrastructure consists of machines, and [probably] could not have been built by 17 people. It's possible that Neo's contact with the source granted him some control over the machines to help facilitate the rebuilding of Zion (of course, Neo did not choose that path...).

[jrjcd]

or it could all be just piece of garbage filmaking...hmmm????

[waydwolf]

Originally posted by jrjcd
or it could all be just piece of garbage filmaking...hmmm????

    Intricate and complex and seemingly contradictory story elements do not for garbage make. All my writing works on totaly twisted backstory and utterly incomprehensible interweave that makes little sense until the end is reached. Seems pretty cool to me.

    What doesn't seem cool to me is this story about one of the Wachowskis, another man's wife, and S&M and crossdressing. Have we been sold a trilogy length bill of goods to encourage the abuse of latex, vinyl, and leather? I hope not. Neo's Carmel Zhao-esque ensemble was a far better fashion statement than Trinity's Dresden Diaries Raincoat bodysuit thing.

 

[jrjcd]

intricate and complex are words that don't come to mind...i went to see it again today just to see if i caught it on a bad day and nope-once a bad film, always a bad film....lol

instead of intricate and complex, let's try pendantic and contemptable-just because you hire a university professor to sit in a chair and spout quasi intellectual doublespeak(gloria foster does this better in the film because you can tell she's just about to break out laughing at the words she's saying-it's obvious by the look on her face she understands she's turning swill into yogurt-am sorry to see this fine actress pass away so young)...

[jrjcd]

...doesn't make for good writing or even complex thought...i suggest you go back and really listen to the dialogue and not just thru the ears of fanboy adoration...

(sorry for the double post, but the edit button still won't work for me)

[waydwolf]

Originally posted by jrjcd
...doesn't make for good writing or even complex thought...i suggest you go back and really listen to the dialogue and not just thru the ears of fanboy adoration...

(sorry for the double post, but the edit button still won't work for me)

    You DO have a chip on your shoulder about this movie to even remotely use the word "fanboy" anywhere within ten thousand miles of me. Couldn't be farther off the base.

    The dialogue is perfectly fine for the movie in which it is found. We aren't talking a recreation of the last days of Stalingrad, or a retelling of Henry V, or anything that's supposed to be of permanent importance to the western cannon.

    To me, if a character says something inordinately pithy for their construction, such as a waitress spouting various somethings supposedly deep and meaningful repeatedly, it breaks suspension of disbelief.

    To achieve that suspension, you need to have people NOT break from what you expect them to be. The movie MUST play to expectations largely or you will say, "well, there's no way any twelve year old kid I know will use words like versimilitude unless the teacher is holding a gun to his head so that's crap right there".

    Similarly, if the learned professor or dottering priest doesn't speak the way you expect and instead were to go, "yo dog, what up sinner?" you would also scratch your head and wonder what they were smoking.

    Given that, I totally accept the dialogue for what it is, the characters saying it, etc. We established in the first one Morpheus, Neo, etc. I don't expect Fishburne to suddenly turn from Morpheus into Captain Miller or Reeves to suddenly go from Neo to Ted Logan.

    Now, if you expect nothing out of Reeves beyond Ted Logan, then you can't expect any happiness because you won't allow for it. Plenty of people I know seem to have that problem and despite all the parts since think that Reeves has the IQ of a pineapple, despite repeated demonstration to the contrary.

    Well, to each his own. Seemed okay to me, but then I don't set the bar any higher than they were aspiring to. This isn't Room With A View, but then given that artsy flick's seeming aspirations, it managed to outsuck Reloaded by a couple of light years.

 

[jrjcd]

the only thing reeves demonstrates is that being well read or intellegent doesn't necessarily translate into acting ability-i don't dispute his intellegence-after all, the man has rooked warners and joel silver to pay him 30 million dollars for standing looking blankly into the camera for roughly 60 minutes of screen time(the rest taken up by a cheesy atari grade CGI image of himself-tho it IS hard to tell when reeves is onscreen and when the cgi image is...hehehe)...

i guess i have a burr under my saddle on this one because these guys spent 300 million dollars on this film(and the other one) and all they can show for it is a derth of imagination(this coming from a pair who apparently LOVE to have their friends and co workers gush about how intellegent they are)...based on the first one, i did expect much more from this and because this film is such a cheat for the audience it was aimed at, makes it even more of a sour taste...