recording directly from a 508 HDD

[mindwarp]

Hello;

I just found this forum.  I just started a search about how to extract any program that was recorded in the 508 receiver without going thru a video capture. I have almost all season of 2 of my favorite series there and I want to record them with my computer's DVDRW.  There are 2 drawbacks of doing this, 1- it is time consuming having to play all the chapters that I have recorded to be captured with my video capture, and 2- since it is passing thru an analog madium, it losses quality and contribuites to the first reason, time comsuming. I just saw in TECHTV that there was a way to do the same thing I want to do with a TiVo receiver. They connected the HDD of one of those to a computer, and converted the data to a video file that had almost no loss of signal quality. So I think it might be possible.  So if there is any way to do this please tell me, I'll be most grateful...

[Jacob S]

I seen that episode and was also wondering about if they had something available for Dish Network PVR's as well. I assume with the dishplayers one can do the same things with it as the Tivo's. With the 501/508/721 I do not know but I would have thought they could do the same thing with it if they worked with them long enough. I wonder if Dish would say something about this if a company tried to do this with their products. Its a surprise they have not tried it yet seeing that Dish sells more PVR's than anyone.

[Mark Lamutt]

This falls under the guidelines of the DMCA law, and thus we can't talk about it here. There is a way if you're willing to give up your warrenty coverage on your receiver. Check out the dishrip group at Yahoo groups for the details. You have to have an excellent working knowledge of linux, and a good knowledge of computers.

[mindwarp]

Well, I'm an installer for a dishnet dealer, I might pop one of the hdd from one of the damaged receivers that they have there ;)

I dont mean to start a discussion about DMCA, and I couldnt care less, all I want is to have archved the best copy possible of my favorite programs.

But if I remember right... at Screen Savers the said something about some kind of encryption on the TiVo, maybe the dish player has the same.

Any ideas will be welcomed

[Chris Blount]

I don't understand the big deal about extracting programming directly from the hard drive. With the right video capture hardware and software, you can burn programming to DVD using the S-Video output that is virtually indistinguishable from the original. With all of the time you use to try and figure a way to get it from the HD, you could already have most of it captured and burned to DVD so the time consuming part really doesn't fly. Besides, all of the programming on Dish is compressed to the point that the digital to analog conversion doesn't really make that big of a difference as far as PQ.

I would suggest dropping the idea and just transferring everything using analog outputs. It's easier and much less time consuming in the long run.

[mindwarp]

Well, I'm trying to do that, I have a Dazzle DVC150 but it is kind of time consuming, I have transfered since yesterday 2 chapters of what I had stored, but I wanted something faster, and since I'm kinda of a computer geek... I want to push it a little higher ;)

[Chris Blount]

Originally posted by mindwarp
Well, I'm trying to do that, I have a Dazzle DVC150 but it is kind of time consuming, I have transfered since yesterday 2 chapters of what I had stored, but I wanted something faster, and since I'm kinda of a computer geek... I want to push it a little higher ;) I understand what you mean. It is tempting to dig into the PVR and try it. In this case though, it only voids your warranty and probably will cause more grief than its worth. Besides, if I remember correctly, all of the material on the hard drive is encrypted and discussion about trying to extract the material is not allowed here.

By the way, welcome to DBSTalk! :hi:

[Mike8675309]

Originally posted by mindwarp
Well, I'm trying to do that, I have a Dazzle DVC150 but it is kind of time consuming, I have transfered since yesterday 2 chapters of what I had stored, but I wanted something faster, and since I'm kinda of a computer geek... I want to push it a little higher ;)

Then certaily check out the DishRip group on Yahoo. It's not a simple process, but it's not overly complex either, from what I've read.

[Jacob S]

I agree, it is better to just record it off of the analog at the current time to DVD until later on further technology developes to make this easier and cheaper.

[mindwarp]

Thanks Mike

[TomCat]

Originally posted by Chris Blount
...you can burn programming to DVD using the S-Video output that is virtually indistinguishable from the original. With all of the time you use to try and figure a way to get it from the HD, you could already have most of it captured and burned to DVD so the time consuming part really doesn't fly. Besides, all of the programming on Dish is compressed to the point that the digital to analog conversion doesn't really make that big of a difference as far as PQ.

I would suggest dropping the idea and just transferring everything using analog outputs. It's easier and much less time consuming in the long run.

I don't think anyone can really argue with that. I transfer using analog to a DVD recorder and get excellent results. My only gripe is that it can only happen in real time, which ties up two components for the duration.

The root of people's frustration might be the irony of being reduced to using analog and real time when the underlying technology has the capability to do digital at file-transfer rates. I think most of us find that both frustrating and repressive, and not at all necessary. I'm still amazed every time I transfer an entire CD to my iPod in 20 seconds and then have to wait on real-time DVD recordings with generational loss, as slight as that might be.

[mindwarp]

I'm with you in that.
I just recorded my first dvd with the two last episodes of Enterprise and it has been a bit tiresome. From the Capture of something that is already in data inside my pvr, to having to cut and edit the movies, and then the programs available to do it are most of them confusing even for someone advanced in computing, maybe most companies dont have to be so worried of piracy, but in making easy for customers to have a copy of whatever program they want (customers) at the time they want, not when they decide to put in the market a dvd compilation 4 or 5 years after the series has ended.

[ehostler]

I would definately look into the dishrip group on Yahoo. The programs they have will transfer the data from the 50X drive to your computer in the native MPEG environment. Once you learn how to use the software, it takes much less time to transfer what you want out of the dish box than it would to do a long video capture.

[mindwarp]

I was looking for that group and didnt found it. Can you help me in that one?

[jgoggan]

Admin note: Please provide that link via e-mail. It's against our forum rules to condone that activity. Sorry.

It doesn't come up in the search any more -- they have changed it to "not listed in directory" for some reason. In any case, it's there.

- John...

[mindwarp]

OK...

[mjz]

Also, DMCA note: Echostar does not use encryption on the dishplayer or the 501/508 series. It is simply the Mpeg-2 transport stream writen in a proprietary disk format. writing a program that copies this data off the drive in no way violates the DMCA as it does not involve the curcumvention of a copy protection.

[mindwarp]

I dont want to start a DMCA debate, but I just wanted my videos :(

[jgoggan]

Originally posted by jgoggan
Admin note: Please provide that link via e-mail. It's against our forum rules to condone that activity. Sorry.

No problem, I can respect that. But, I do have to admit that I don't really see the problem. I mean, if someone was here asking how to connect their PVR to their VCR so that they could record a show, there would be no problem with telling people how to do that. So I don't see how allow people to get a digital copy is any different as far as legal concerns.

There is no legal issue, right?

- John...

[Chris Blount]

Originally posted by jgoggan

...if someone was here asking how to connect their PVR to their VCR so that they could record a show, there would be no problem with telling people how to do that. So I don't see how allow people to get a digital copy is any different as far as legal concerns.

There is no legal issue, right?

- John...

Yes, there can be a legal issue. This should help clarify things for you. It talks about the Tivo but Dish has told us the same thing in no uncertain terms.

http://news.com.com/2100-1023-268227.html?legacy=cnet

Copying video from a PVR to tape is legal and falls under "fair use".

[jgoggan]

Exactly -- that article is about someone being afraid of the poorly-written and implemented DMCA. It doesn't help clarify anything -- except realizing that maybe fear of the DMCA is reason enough to not allow it. Again, I can respect that.

My point is just that I don't feel it is against the DMCA -- at least, not in any way that SHOULD be illegal. But, with the DMCA, you never know.

As someone that runs a web site that had to remove FREEWARE because of the threat of a lawsuit from a thoroughly confused lawyer, I can respect not wanting to deal with such issues though. So, I won't link to anything again -- although I still maintain that it is not illegal to do -- it just isn't worth the risk/hassle. (Hence the same reason I removed a download that I KNEW was legal just because I didn't want to have to go to court to try to prove that.)

- John...

[Chris Blount]

Originally posted by jgoggan

I can respect not wanting to deal with such issues though. That's pretty much what it comes down to. None of the admin or mods here at DBSTalk want to deal with legal issues whether they are justified or not. We are not getting paid to run this forum and don't have the time, energy or funds to challenge any legal nonsense from some uptight corporate lawyer.

Plus, the encryption technicalities are unclear so its just not worth taking a stance one way or the other. The basic rule here at DBSTalk is simply, don't get into the details about ripping the hard drive or provide links to places that provide instructions on how its done. Period.