View Full Version : Which is better?
inkahauts
03-23-09, 05:29 PM
Ok, so I need to do something. I have a system set up now, and its having a few drop outs, and I think its related to how I have it hooked up now, which I'll mention at the bottom of the post, but rather the options I have for changing it...
Which is the better solution...
50 ft runs to a wb616
8 100ft runs to 4 HR boxes
and 4 3 ft runs to a swm5 which then has a 100ft run to ps and a 6 ft runs to two boxes....
OR
4 50 ft runs to splitters, splitting signal to a swm4 and a wb68, then to the boxes, with the same lengths as above?
Money is not an issue on this, the issue is which provides the best signal...
I'm leaning towards the wb616, because its powered, and the runs aren't necessarily short...
Just as an fyi.. currently, the 50 ft from the dish runs to a wb68, and then that has 4 short runs to the swm5 and 4 short runs to a second wb68, then the runs go to the boxes...
The current issue is that randomly, I will get cutouts for a matter of 3 to 6 seconds, sometimes... not every day, but usually when it happens, it happens on certain channels and it will happen on all receivers....
joe diamond
03-23-09, 05:45 PM
Ok, so I need to do something. I have a system set up now, and its having a few drop outs, and I think its related to how I have it hooked up now, which I'll mention at the bottom of the post, but rather the options I have for changing it...
Which is the better solution...
50 ft runs to a wb616
8 100ft runs to 4 HR boxes
and 4 3 ft runs to a swm5 which then has a 100ft run to ps and a 6 ft runs to two boxes....
OR
4 50 ft runs to splitters, splitting signal to a swm4 and a wb68, then to the boxes, with the same lengths as above?
Money is not an issue on this, the issue is which provides the best signal...
I'm leaning towards the wb616, because its powered, and the runs aren't necessarily short...
Just as an fyi.. currently, the 50 ft from the dish runs to a wb68, and then that has 4 short runs to the swm5 and 4 short runs to a second wb68, then the runs go to the boxes...
The current issue is that randomly, I will get cutouts for a matter of 3 to 6 seconds, sometimes... not every day, but usually when it happens, it happens on certain channels and it will happen on all receivers....
That "all receivers" is a clue!
I would look around the dish. Assuming nothing is blocking the dish (LOS), I would try to produce the drop outs by shaking any cables & fittings associated with the dish, ground block , SWM5 / wb616 and the power inserter.
Next would be the LNB , Multiswitch & Power Inserter and the SWM5. Try producing the drop out while bypassing the wb616, running a patch cord (jumper) from the dish to a receiver.
There may be a known issue with one of the components or boxes you are using. That SWM5 is, I think, an experimental item.
Keep watching this site.
Joe
I would go with your second option, four 50 foot runs to splitters, out of the splitters to the WB68 and SWM. Then runs from the outputs of those to the applicable tuners.
One option to that you might consider would be to add a Sonora power inserter/phase locker between the splitters and the dish (but the SWM should provide the proper power, giving the benefit of the powered multiswitch).
I think your current problems relate to the stacking of the two multiswitches off the first WB68.
inkahauts
03-24-09, 03:26 AM
I would go with your second option, four 50 foot runs to splitters, out of the splitters to the WB68 and SWM. Then runs from the outputs of those to the applicable tuners.
One option to that you might consider would be to add a Sonora power inserter/phase locker between the splitters and the dish (but the SWM should provide the proper power, giving the benefit of the powered multiswitch).
I think your current problems relate to the stacking of the two multiswitches off the first WB68.
I agree with the probably cause... Its so intermittent, it isn't that big of a deal, usually, but then every once in a while, it will do it twice in a week, and I'm a perfectionist...
So I am curious, what advantage does splitters give you over a wb616? I guess I want to know advantages and disadvantages between the two options...
David MacLeod
03-24-09, 04:45 AM
I think it would be price, allows you to use existing equipment.
And there are many of us here set up that way and it works flawlessly. I'm running a WB68 and an SWM in parallel through 4 splitters and have never had a hickup. Ditto many others. It is a proven approach (at a much lower cost than the 616).
inkahauts
03-25-09, 02:20 AM
ok.. what splitters do you guys use?
I'm using Holland HFS-2 one port power passing splitters. They have worked fine for over a year now. Put the SWM on the power passing port and the WB68 on the non-power passing port.
veryoldschool
03-25-09, 10:10 AM
Another one is: http://www.a1components.com/itemdisplayn.aspx?item=4349
inkahauts
03-25-09, 11:50 PM
Ok, so maybe a bizzaer question, (not related to this actual setup, but someone else's) but what would happen if you use these splitters, but don't actually hook anything up to one set up the outputs? Would the other set still work? Or do they have to go into a wb68 or similar switch to allow all of the signals to be reliable?
David MacLeod
03-26-09, 05:59 AM
good question, would the unused outputs need termination?
this would allow you to quickly add an expansion if I understand correctly.
Ok, so maybe a bizzaer question, (not related to this actual setup, but someone else's) but what would happen if you use these splitters, but don't actually hook anything up to one set up the outputs? Would the other set still work? Or do they have to go into a wb68 or similar switch to allow all of the signals to be reliable?
It should work, providing you use the power passing port. Do NOT terminate unused ports. (The only time you terminate unused ports is when using SWM technology.)
David MacLeod
03-26-09, 09:56 AM
It should work, providing you use the power passing port. Do NOT terminate unused ports. (The only time you terminate unused ports is when using SWM technology.)
just for my own curiosity, if you did this with swm8 and wb68, then removed wb68 temporarily and left splitters in place for whatever reason. would you then terminate the unused ports off splitters for that time they are unused?
I think NO but am not sure.
mangusta1969
03-26-09, 10:02 AM
Inkahuts,
Unless you are using RG-59, your cable runs are not very long and should not be causing intermittent pixelation problems.
When my 8 tuner/WB68 original installation (with some much longer cable runs) had intermittent pixelation problems on both of my HD DVRs, the DTV repair guys focused in on dish alignment, the long cables and connectors during 4 unsuccesful repair attempts.
The actual culprit was finally found to be a marginal LNB assembly on the Slimline 5 antenna. Once this LNB assembly was changed out, perfectly reliable reception was achieved.
Hope this helps you.
veryoldschool
03-26-09, 10:17 AM
just for my own curiosity, if you did this with swm8 and wb68, then removed wb68 temporarily and left splitters in place for whatever reason. would you then terminate the unused ports off splitters for that time they are unused?
I think NO but am not sure.
Not all splitters are created equal.
First an foremost is not to "short" the DC voltage through a terminator.
Next would be the RF reflection off the open port of the splitter, but this may or may not be an issue. If it is, then a termination should be used if it isn't going to effect the DC.
David MacLeod
03-26-09, 01:02 PM
Not all splitters are created equal.
First an foremost is not to "short" the DC voltage through a terminator.
Next would be the RF reflection off the open port of the splitter, but this may or may not be an issue. If it is, then a termination should be used if it isn't going to effect the DC.
that makes sense, especially the dc part since it would be between lnb and swm unit.
seems to me it would be hard to test for reflection for average person :)
veryoldschool
03-26-09, 01:06 PM
that makes sense, especially the dc part since it would be between lnb and swm unit.
seems to me it would be hard to test for reflection for average person :)
leave it open and see if you have more 771 errors
David MacLeod
03-26-09, 01:11 PM
:) I don't get 771's LOL
yeah, I see what you're saying though.
LameLefty
03-26-09, 01:32 PM
Another one is: http://www.a1components.com/itemdisplayn.aspx?item=4349
I'm using six of these in my setup and they work perfectly. Four of them are used to split the lines from dish, and I use two more to split the two outputs of the SWM. I have home runs from each of those to a HR2x/R22 box. No issues whatsoever with the signal chain. :)
inkahauts
03-26-09, 06:46 PM
Inkahuts,
Unless you are using RG-59, your cable runs are not very long and should not be causing intermittent pixelation problems.
When my 8 tuner/WB68 original installation (with some much longer cable runs) had intermittent pixelation problems on both of my HD DVRs, the DTV repair guys focused in on dish alignment, the long cables and connectors during 4 unsuccesful repair attempts.
The actual culprit was finally found to be a marginal LNB assembly on the Slimline 5 antenna. Once this LNB assembly was changed out, perfectly reliable reception was achieved.
Hope this helps you.
The issue I am having i believe is related to the stacking of wb68's.... The only switch I have ever seen as being made to stack is the wb616... not counting mdu stuff...
inkahauts
03-26-09, 06:59 PM
Another one is: http://www.a1components.com/itemdisplayn.aspx?item=4349
Not all splitters are created equal.
First an foremost is not to "short" the DC voltage through a terminator.
Next would be the RF reflection off the open port of the splitter, but this may or may not be an issue. If it is, then a termination should be used if it isn't going to effect the DC.
Ok, so basically, this splitter is power pass through both outputs, so I assume no terminations if I go with these? If I have signal issues, whats the best thing to do? just bypass the splitter unit its needed?
Here is why I am asking about this.. My uncle is building a new duplex, I will be doing all the low voltage wiring.. I am going to set it up so his tenants can have the local cable company, Directv, or Dish.. for sat, I want to basically run the lines into one area, split them, and then send the feeders into a control box for each unit where all the runs will be home run, since we are starting from scratch.... I want to make sure that whatever I do, its compatible with ANY system...
There are a couple different ways I can do it, but I want the least amount of work after its built, which means running lines to each control box, and it'd be easier to split them, somewhere in the building and run to each.. Which is why I am trying to decide if I want to run splitters or maybe only run the splitters if both tenets are using the same service....
Which would you do? I am trying to set it up so that once I'm gone, if an installer comes out, they will be able to hook up everything without having to enter into any common area (except the roof) , or the other persons unit....
I have to go into the dish forums and find out about them too... maybe next week....
veryoldschool
03-26-09, 08:21 PM
The Skywalkers are "diode steered", which should mean you can terminate an open port without problems since there won't be any DC.
As to your other questions, I really need to know more about what you're trying to do to give "decent" help.
mangusta1969
03-27-09, 04:13 PM
The issue I am having i believe is related to the stacking of wb68's.... The only switch I have ever seen as being made to stack is the wb616... not counting mdu stuff...
With regard to your original question/post, my main point was to be certain that your LNB itself is not causing problems, since DTV techs were pretty clueless despite a number of repair visits on finding this as my root problem about a year ago.
When you eliminate your stacked WB68s and drive fewer tuners, do you have reliable operations?
How many tuners are you trying to drive? From your first post, I count a total of 10 tuners. Is that correct? By using 4 passive splitters fed directly by your slimline dish to drive a SWM-8 and a single WB68, you should be able to drive more than enough tuners for your situation. The SWM-8 can drive all four of your dual tuner HR boxes, each with a single cable while a single WB68 (fed from the other leg of the 4 splitters) can drive up to 8 additional tuners. Just be careful of any long cable runs with the WB68, but you appear to be okay in that regard.
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