Channel Request

[DS0816]

Having just requested on DirecTV's web site a channel request -- for me, it's Goodlife Television (GOODTV) -- I was wondering whether others have sent in requests (for whatever programming service)? In other words, I'm wondering whether people who subscribe to DirecTV (and Dish Network subs, too!) think this effort is worth it?:)

[14\" Tvset owner]

More channels ... more compression

We need more channels, less PQ

[Ronmort]

I would like to see that channel on DTV too.

[Msguy]

I have a good friend who has Dish Network and I have Direc TV. I noticed on his channel guide he can get other Superstations around the country like WSBK in Boston and KWGN in Denver. Direc TV only has WGN in Chicago and TBS Superstation in Atlanta. I wish direc TV could get these channels.

[Mark Holtz]

Don't hold your breath. It probably won't happen.

While the Superstations "pack" is available from Dish Network, you won't see it on their website or any of their literature unless you qualify an address.

The superstations are a holdover from the days when Echostar was selling C-band systems. They were removed from a standard package a few years ago. At that time, the stations were independents and aired a lot more sports programming. Now, they air almost no sports programming and are now UPN/WB affiliates. These superstations are "grandfathered" into the rules, and a station cannot become a superstation easily.

Depending on a pending decision by a Miami court "any day now", it is entirely possible that Dish may no longer be able to offer the superstations to subscribers.

[JohnH]

I have not seen anything which indicates that court case has anything to do with Superstations. It does have much to do with Network Stations as defined by the SHVIA(Satellite Home Viewer Protection Act). Those Networks being ABC, CBS, NBC and/or FOX.

[Mark Holtz]

http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/NSD/dish/reports/q1_ecc_2003_final.pdf

See pages 12 and 13. It is impossible to predict what the Miami judge will do, but several speculated scenarios are possible:
* Dish is in compliance.
* All distant subscribers have to be dropped.
* All non-local TV stations have to be dropped.
* All network channels would have to be dropped, leaving the non-affiliated stations on the air.
* All local channels have to be dropped.

And, according to the filing, 60% of the subscriber base subscribe to at least local or distant network channel.

The slates are in place, ready to go depending on the ruling. It is possible that the ruling may be "stayed" pending appeal, or it could take effect almost immediately.

[JohnH]

It should be noted that the slates which are in place do not encompass the Superstations and they are not specifically mentioned and are not necessarily included in the statements which refer to "local" or "non-local" stations. They are "Superstations".

[ARKDTVfan]

Originally posted by Z'Loth
http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/NSD/dish/reports/q1_ecc_2003_final.pdf

See pages 12 and 13. It is impossible to predict what the Miami judge will do, but several speculated scenarios are possible:
* Dish is in compliance.
* All distant subscribers have to be dropped.
* All non-local TV stations have to be dropped.
* All network channels would have to be dropped, leaving the non-affiliated stations on the air.
* All local channels have to be dropped.

And, according to the filing, 60% of the subscriber base subscribe to at least local or distant network channel.

The slates are in place, ready to go depending on the ruling. It is possible that the ruling may be "stayed" pending appeal, or it could take effect almost immediately. Would that affect DirecTV as well, or just Dish?

[Mark Holtz]

Just Dish.

[Msguy]

If They Drop Superstations such as WGN and TBS I Swear I'd go back to Rabbit Ears before i'd pay the Satellite or Cable Companies another Red Cent. My Cubs games are broadcasted on WGN while alot of them are on Fox Sports Net Chicago now since I have MLB Extra innings on Direc TV i still am able to see the Cubs. As a previous poster said yes there used to be alot more games on these Superstations but in Recent years the Number of games has Dramatically declined. I can Remember when EVERY Single Cubs Game was broadcasted on WGN and Fox Sports Net Didn't even exist. Those were the good old days. I have XM Satellite Radio now and I Swear I'd sit and listen to ESPN Sportscenter Updates every 20 minutes on the ESPN Radio Channel if they took away my WGN Superstation. I'd totally discontinue my service. I think that it sucks now that they still continue to have blackouts of games even though the game is coming from a television feed that isn't your local Regional sports network but the game is being played not on a Regional sports Network in your Area. A perfect Example of this is I supposedly live in The Atlanta Braves and Cincinnati Reds Home Television Markets. If The Cubs are playing the Cincinnati Reds and the Game is not on Fox Sports Ohio (The Reds Home Regional Sports Network) Or on WGN Chicago I can't see the game if it IS Being shown on Fox Sports Chicago. And I live in northern Mississippi. I get NO Local Cincinnati Channels to see this game At all and blacked out from Fox sports Chicago. I hate this so much. They need to redraw the Boundaries for the Reds Home Television Market it isn't even funny.

[SamC]

The "superstations" have nothing at all to do with the Miami court case. The Miami court case has to do with Dish's policy of playing fast and loose with the rules for qualifications for distant nets.

The superstations are grandfathered in from the days of BUD. They can broadcast. Dish limits them to particular rural locations due to their affiliations with UPN and WB. If not for that, they could continue to offer them nationwide.

And WGN is NO LONGER a superstation. It is a regular channel, offered everywhere.

[catman]

They could do away with channel 222 . there is never anything on that channel .

[TNGTony]

Originally posted by Msguy
If They Drop Superstations such as WGN and TBS I Swear I'd go back to Rabbit Ears ....{snip}

TBS and WGN Superstation are NOT broadcast channels and aren't really "superstations" any more.

TBS is a cable network. The cable network has one broadcast affiliate which happens to be WTBS Atlanta. This change happened several years ago. TBS and WTBS share 164 of 168 hours of programmin a week. But they are separate channels.

WGN Superstation is also a cable channel and only shares about 50% of the program schedule with WGN 9 Chicago. This change-over happened many, many moons ago. Though the difference in program schedule has slowly evolved over the years.

So even if all the locals, distants and supers were to be removed, these two channels are completely unaffected.

See ya
Tony

[DCSholtis]

Originally posted by catman
They could do away with channel 222 . there is never anything on that channel .
As well as Channel 261 (SelfTV or as I describe it Crappy InfomercialTV) and Channel 367 (Cheap Jewelry on Sale TV)...:D

[Geronimo]

The superstations are not limited to rural areas. You can buy them no matter where you live in spite of their affiliation with WB/UPN.


BTW maybe I am missing something but when I read the document linked above I see several references to NETWORK programming. It is unclear to me whether the superstations are involved as I do not belive that WB or UPN are defined as networks under SHVIA or SHVA.

But one thing is for sure none of us knows how this will turn out.

[JohnH]

Due to blackout requests, that is not necessarilly correct.

There are some markets in which they will not allow UPN and/or WB Superstations to be subscribbed to.

[Geronimo]

True but that needs to be requested---and there are few cases where it is. BTW the blackout requests can be caused by any syndicated programming as well not just the WB/UPN feed. It could just as easily happen to protect syndicated exclusivity on Judge Mathis or Oprah.


My post was in response to the statement that it is limited to rural markets because of the WB UPN affiliations of the superstations. That is not the case.

[JohnH]

I think you answered your own doubt about the Superstations being included in the court case. Since they can be subscribed to almost anywhere legally, they are not included in the case. Prior to SHVIA, they could not even be blacked out on satellite as content could not be modified in any way.

BTW: It would seem the Judge would be limited to the SHVIA definition of Network stations if applying the remedies for the Network stations.

It does not mean those will be the only ones affected, since there were instances in which KTVK and KJZZ were offered in the distants mix. I have not heard of those being mentioned in the case, though.

[Geronimo]

But if KTVK, KJZZ and the supers are not network stations how are they affected?

Again no one really knows until a judge rules.

[JohnH]

As I stated, I do not beleive the Supers are affected.

I mentioned KTVK and KJZZ as there was always some doubt on the part of some forum members as to whether they were being offered legally. If not, then there may be some grounds to attack local delivery of non-network stations. It is very remote though.

[lastmanstanding]

I didn't realize that the superstations were so limited. We don't get locals, some animal keeps eating my OTA lead, so we don't get OTA locals either. If they take the superstations, we may go back to C-band.

direct broadcast should be about more access, not less.

somebody is going to get VOD over broadband right one of these days, and there will be a market for it if they restrict everything else too much.

[JohnH]

Originally posted by Geronimo
Again no one really knows until a judge rules.

Correct. Also, how many of those rulings get busted on appeal

[Brett]

Originally posted by Geronimo
The superstations are not limited to rural areas. You can buy them no matter where you live in spite of their affiliation with WB/UPN.


BTW maybe I am missing something but when I read the document linked above I see several references to NETWORK programming. It is unclear to me whether the superstations are involved as I do not belive that WB or UPN are defined as networks under SHVIA or SHVA.

But one thing is for sure none of us knows how this will turn out.

WB is a network. I believe Pax and Univision are networks also, but they dont keep their programming in exclusive contracts with affiliates. They own most their stations and know exposure for their network is very important. So, the 2 have signed national feed deals with both DBS companies.

Regarding WB as a network, thats why SHVIA indicates syndicated exclusivity and network non duplication in regards to superstations. They realized the superstations were aligned with UPN and WB. The superstations however (during SHVA time) didnt carry WB, or UPN. When SHVIA was adopted, the deal was Echostar and DirecTV could still carry them (FCC encouraged it), as long as local station can assert their exclusivity for programming.

This ruling will likely have to do with ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox and its affiliates distant delivery.

In context to cable, FCC's syndicated exclusivity and network non duplication is applicable to any distant station, not just the superstations. So if a Comcast in Harrisburg carries WPVI 6 (ABC) and WPHL 17 (WB) from Philly, FCC rules on syndex and non dupe apply. If Comcast is not blacking out a show on WPVI but should be, the local station (say WHTM 27 ABC) will file complaint so the FCC looks into the matter. Not some Miami judge.

[dfergie]

And who appointed this judge "god"over the rest of the country as far as viewing?

[Geronimo]

I remember that we got wound around the axle over the definition of a network (Under SHVIA) before both here and on the other forum.

I have seen threads here that claim that neither WB nor UPN is. That WB is now (but was NOT when SHVIA was enacted), and perhaps several other variations. It was my understanding that neither one currently qualifies now but I could be wrong---and clearly it is something that has been disputed. Having said that I still don't think that the case involves them---which was the subject at hand---or so I thought.


As for blackouts having nothing to do with the judge. I think we are all in agreement there. I don't think anyone said it was because of the judge----but maybe I missed a post. There are blackouts in a few areas now---and DISH has chosen to deal with it by not selling the supers there. But they could sell them and then blackout the "Objectionable programming" if they wanted to.

[Mark Holtz]

Please don't hold this as gospel, but I believe the FCC requires a minimum number of hours of programming per week to be considered a network.

UPN has 10 hours of programming per week, with no programming scheduled on Saturdays and Sundays.

Fox has 18 hours of prime time programming plus sports programming.

WB has ~15 hours of programming per week.

So, technically speaking, UPN and WB are not "networks" under the rules, and so are called "netlets".

[Geronimo]

Ther is a minimum stated in the law. I looked for full text but could not find it----several links I tried were broken. So thanks Z'Loth for posting the requirements.

It is my understanding that the reference to network programming was to cover the contingency that one or more of the superstations might be a network affiliate in the future either due to a change in affiliation or a change in the status of WB or UPN. I don't think it meant that either WB or UPN was a network at that time. I also don't think that PAX or Univison qualify---under SHVIA ----but may under some other provision of law and/or regulation. But maybe they ahve more programming than i am aware of.

But this has come up before. Most recently when the WB added early Sunday evening programming. Many said that they qualified then. Others disputed it. I still thought that they did not qualify yet but maybe they do.

[JohnH]

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/shva/shvia.pdf

[Geronimo]

OK. You convinced me. At least until the next round of posts on this subject. But all the news stories have involved the Big 4 not the smaller nets. So to return to the first question about supers I don't think they are affected but anything is possible.

I would like to see Trio and Goodlife added to DISH. I would also like to see an MPT affilaite added to the Washington DC DMA. Maybe if Baltimore is added this will happen. But that is sheer conjecture on my part. And yes that was the original question