New Install, Long Cable Run, No Phone, Help

[LSBduvall]

I just canceled cable and currently have no television service and I want to switch to DBS. Any ideas how to make D* work on my property? My shop has a clear view from 99W to 119W and the ODU (SWM) can be mounted to the 4x6 support post on the shop. I would like an HR23 in the shop and an HR23 in the studio apartment. My problem, the cable run to the studio is about 200 feet. To make this work, it seems I need splitter to send one run to the shop and the other to the studio. What equipment would make this work? Should I use 3GHz RG-6Q or RG-11 in an underground conduit for the long cable run?

Assuming we come up with a solution for the above, here is the next problem: I'm using Verizon dry loop to access the internet. It comes into the shop where I have a modem connected to the VoIP adapter which is connected to a router with wi-fi 54g (Modem > VoIP > Router). There are no registered jacks (RJ-11) in the shop or studio. The VoIP adapter is connected to a EnGenius wireless telephone transceiver and remote handsets in the shop and studio. I understand the HR23's can be connected to LAN. If so, do both HR receivers need this network connectivity? It is no problem connecting the shop HR23 to a physical network cable, but he studio is 200 feet away. Currently, the router wi-fi is connected to an external high gain antenna pointing towards the studio and I access the internet in the studio via wi-fi just fine. If the HR23 needs network connectivity, can it use wi-fi somehow? If needed, I could run CAT-6 with the coax, but rather not.

How much of the solution will be covered by D* "free standard professional installation" and what will I be left with? What equipment will they supply? I see many websites being referenced here as the place to purchase new equipment and receivers, but I thought everything was leased. Would it be better to just purchase everything myself and install it or call D* and have them do the install and hope for the best?

Thanks for any help you can provide,
LSBduvall

[harsh]

You're making several assumptions and some of them are probably faulty.

1. Dishes require a much larger mounting surface than a 4x6 post provides and the requirement for monopoles complicates it further.

2. 50' seems to be the industry standard for free burial.

3. Most wireless gaming adapters won't reach hundreds of feet without some serious help. Preferable would be a wireless bridge to the shop and wire inside. This is especially true if the shop has its own electrical service and/or you're welding or using big electrical equipment in the shop.

4. You may have trouble convincing them that the shop isn't a separate residence.

5. If you can convince them it is the same residence, it may benefit you to spring for a second dish rather than going to the expense and trouble of trying to connect the two structures. This solves the grounding problem and the burial problem.



I'd personally give serious consideration to laying in a 2" PVC conduit between the buildings for this and many other low-voltage purposes.

[Mertzen]

200ft should not be a problem with solid copper RG6. QS and RG11 will be overkill.

[LSBduvall]

1. Dishes require a much larger mounting surface than a 4x6 post provides and the requirement for monopoles complicates it further.
There are other surfaces on the shop that can be used if needed.

2. 50' seems to be the industry standard for free burial.Do you mean coax in dirt?

3. Most wireless gaming adapters won't reach hundreds of feet without some serious help.Thanks for the gaming adapter tip. I think my high gain antenna should be fine.

4. You may have trouble convincing them that the shop isn't a separate residence.It not a residence, it is the only place to get a view of 99 to 119w.

5. ...second dish...No southern view at studio. Your 2" PVC idea I like.

Thanks,
LSBduvall

[LSBduvall]

200ft should not be a problem with solid copper RG6. QS and RG11 will be overkill.I thought so. I had cable tv running 500 feet using 1GHz RG6 and it worked fine. 3GHz RG6 quad shield should be ok. My concern was the power inserter. Do I need to insert 21 volts onto the coax? If I need a power inserter, I can position it at the shop so there is little voltage drop. I want to see how the SWM is split. I've read about splitters, multiswitches, lockers, but my days with DBS date back to the early 80's when Coop had the Satelite Digest and everything was C-band and 120K LNA was considered very good. It will take me a couple of days to come up to speed on todays DBS.

Thanks
LSBduvall

[BattleZone]

200ft should not be a problem with solid copper RG6. QS and RG11 will be overkill.

Agree 100%. Solid-copper center conductor RG6 will be fine for those distances. Quad shield won't gain you anything, and RG11 is overkill for this distance.

[BattleZone]

The power inserter should be located fairly near the dish. The lines feeding the buildings can be split before or after the power inserter, but if power is going through the splitter, you need to ensure that you're sending it through the power-passing ports, which are marked RED.

http://www.prosatellitesupply.com/images/swm-splitters-large.jpg

You also need to use 75 Ohm terminating resistor caps on all unused splitter ports. Ideally, you want the minimum number of ports to support the receivers you'll be using.

[carl6]

If you go SWM you do not need solid copper RG6 to the residence. The purpose of solid copper is for greater DC voltage carrying ability, and that is not a factor with SWM (other than the PI, which won't be at the far end of the 200 foot run).

If you were using non-SWM, then the DC voltage from the receiver to the dish would be a major factor and solid copper center conductor would become critical.

I think you'll be okay with a 200 foot run.

As to network, you really don't even need to connect phone OR network to the DVR for it to work. You will need one or the other in order to order pay per view using the remote, and you will need network if you want on-demand (but a dry DSL loop might be a bit slow for on demand anyway).

[LSBduvall]

If you go SWM you do not need solid copper RG6 to the residence. The purpose of solid copper is for greater DC voltage carrying ability, and that is not a factor with SWM (other than the PI, which won't be at the far end of the 200 foot run).

If you were using non-SWM, then the DC voltage from the receiver to the dish would be a major factor and solid copper center conductor would become critical.

I think you'll be okay with a 200 foot run.

As to network, you really don't even need to connect phone OR network to the DVR for it to work. You will need one or the other in order to order pay per view using the remote, and you will need network if you want on-demand (but a dry DSL loop might be a bit slow for on demand anyway).
I guess solid copper or copper/steel comes down to how much current draw there is. I don't think the price is that much more for solid copper.

A friend was telling me his D* receiver would try to access the network about once a month even though there are no PPVs. He said a popup message would show on the screen. If the receive does need access once a month or so, a simple shared network connection from my wireless netbook should solve the problem and eliminate the need for dedicated wireless game adapter.

[carl6]

I guess solid copper or copper/steel comes down to how much current draw there is.
Exactly. RF carries via skin effect and copper clad steel (or hollow copper for that matter) works just fine. For DC current carrying capacity, the entire conductor is important.


A friend was telling me his D* receiver would try to access the network about once a month even though there are no PPVs.

Common with Tivo based DVRs, which do require the phone connection. Not an issue with the newer DirecTV products.

[LSBduvall]

A friend had a contract installer come out a few years ago to do an install. First thing he did was pull out a 1,000 foot spool of RG-6 and set it on the porch. A few minutes later he said the trees were blocking the signal and he left in his pickup leaving the spool behind and no contact information. Since this was years ago, I don't think he is coming back for the wire. I'm going to check the wire out in a couple of hours and pull what I need off the spool.

[Johnnie5000]

1. Dishes require a much larger mounting surface than a 4x6 post provides and the requirement for monopoles complicates it further.


If the 4x6 is a cornerpost, and is pretty solid, I would use a s-tube mount. Those are great for corners and deck posts. (can't find so much as a picture of one, but I can pm the install manual for it if need be)

[LSBduvall]

If the 4x6 is a cornerpost, and is pretty solid, I would use a s-tube mount. Those are great for corners and deck posts. (can't find so much as a picture of one, but I can pm the install manual for it if need be)The 4x6 is part of the corner of the building and is set into a 3 foot pillar of concrete and goes up 10 feet to the 6x8 header supporting the roof and is all part of a 4 foot walkway cover. I Googled for the s-tube mount and found several photos. It looks very strong and it should work just fine.

[ABQNM]

Some things to note:

--30' of cable burial is included with a pole mount only. Any other burial is charged at $1 per foot. This should be direct bury flooded cable. The installer will not provide conduit for bury.

--200' would be fine as long as it is not the side with the power inserter. The PI should be as close to the dish as possible but not less than 15 cable feet.

--DirecTV standard install includes up to 125' of cable per line. If it is a technician that has his supplies paid for by his company, he will probably have no issue with the extra cable. If it is a contract installer, he will most certainly charge you for the extra cable.

--If you are only ordering 2 HDDVRs, you will not receive a SWM dish. SWM is only used on work orders requiring between 5 and 8 tuners. This means you would require dual coax to both locations.

--If you end up purchasing the cable yourself, the cost difference between solid copper and copper clad steel is not enough to justify going with the cheap steel cable. Just get the solid copper for reliability and the fact that some installers will refuse to use CCS because it is not DirecTV approved.