Netbooks to Reshape PC Industry

[Nick]

"Get ready for the next stage in the
personal computer revolution:
ultrathin and dirt cheap."

The New York Times > Technology

AT&T just announced...that customers in Atlanta could get a type of compact PC called a netbook for just $50 (when) they sign up for Internet service. “The era of Internet computer for $99 is coming...by the end of the year consumers are likely to see laptops the size of thin paperback books that can run all day on a single charge." >>>

More @ The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/02/technology/02netbooks.html?scp=1&sq=Light%20and%20Cheap,%20Netbooks%20Are%20Poised% 20to%20Reshape%20PC%20Industry&st=cse)

[Steve Mehs]

What is old is new again. Netbooks remind me of these, only thinner:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/70/HP_Jornada_720.JPG/757px-HP_Jornada_720.JPG

The 'Palmtop' was more or less a massive failure that only a few companies dove into as traditional PDAs won out. While I like to concept of netbooks, they're not for me. I'd rather have a real laptop, with a DVD/Blu Ray drive, a processor more powerful then the Atom, and not use the ancient OS called Windows XP.

[Drew2k]

Boy does that remind me of the old days, when I had a Sharp Zaurus monochrome PDA. It was a thing of beauty, but alas, I quickly outgrew it.

http://www.planitroi.com/images/zaurus_1.jpg

The odd thing about AT&T giving these away is, didn't they just announce caps on data? So they're giving these things out, which should increase traffic, but then they're going to cap monthly usage .... nice!

[hdtvfan0001]

Netbooks IMHO are just oversized PDA's with Internet access.

I don't think they will be reshaping much of anything....as they have been introduced before - see the posts above (I remember all those...scary. :eek2::D)

[Steve Mehs]

Verizon and AT&T have had 5GB monthly caps on their data service for a while now. Sprint just started capping about 8 months ago.

Here's a story about this very thing

http://www.informationweek.com/news/telecom/business/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=215600328&subSection=News

[houskamp]

I need a larger screen :)

[bscott]

Netbooks IMHO are just oversized PDA's with Internet access.

I don't think they will be reshaping much of anything....as they have been introduced before - see the posts above (I remember all those...scary. :eek2::D)

Dunno about that...we just picked up a MSI Wind for about $300 from Tiger Direct. 10", 1GB, 160GB hard drive...pretty powerful for a little thing. Wife loves it. Weighs next to nothing and gets good batter life. I can see people going to these easily. Features and power for not a lot of money.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4424398&CatId=3987

[Stuart Sweet]

I had a Palmtop too... the HP300LX. It worked great for me, in the days before one needed internet.

I always believed it was a great idea, and with the advent of low-power chipsets to extend battery life, it's an even better one.

I'm on the sidelines for now, but will eventually buy a netbook when I find one for $149 that runs Windows7 and has at least 64GB of flash plus 2GB RAM. Laugh if you will, I bet it won't be long.

[hdtvfan0001]

I need a larger screen :)
Or better glasses....:D
I had a Palmtop too... the HP300LX. It worked great for me, in the days before one needed internet.

I always believed it was a great idea, and with the advent of low-power chipsets to extend battery life, it's an even better one.

I'm on the sidelines for now, but will eventually buy a netbook when I find one for $149 that runs Windows7 and has at least 64GB of flash plus 2GB RAM. Laugh if you will, I bet it won't be long.
Ha Ha...but I bet we see those at the CES 2010... ;):sure:

[dave29]

I'm on the sidelines for now, but will eventually buy a netbook when I find one for $149 that runs Windows7 and has at least 64GB of flash plus 2GB RAM. Laugh if you will, I bet it won't be long.

I take one as well.;)

[HDJulie]

I'm hoping for one that will somehow be a touchscreen that can fold :-). I want a 7" screen but I don't want that much bulk & I don't want it to be half screen, half keyboard. The main reason I love my iPhone is that I can surf on it anywhere & the screen is almost big enough for me to see. I don't want a computer that has all of my files, music, pics -- I want one that I can carry in my medium-sized purse & surf while riding in the car, at the doctor's office, or at the grocery if I need a recipe.

[ChiWavDave]

I work for a leading manufacturer of Netbooks, and I can say that they truly are exploding out there. We literally cannot produce them fast enough. Many K-12 districts are scrapping laptop purchases this summer and replacing them with Netbooks (although another old school device is trying to stop everybody from using the name netbook, Psion is suing all of us claiming a copyright on the term)...

[hdtvfan0001]

I work for a leading manufacturer of Netbooks, and I can say that they truly are exploding out there. We literally cannot produce them fast enough. Many K-12 districts are scrapping laptop purchases this summer and replacing them with Netbooks (although another old school device is trying to stop everybody from using the name netbook, Psion is suing all of us claiming a copyright on the term)...
Define "exploding", because there is not a retailer (online or other) in this area who markets them at all. As for schools...they're all using conventional PC's, mostly Dell or HP.

I can see a market for those who only want base Internet access and e-mail, but beyond that, there are limitations in terms of speed, power, graphics, and future upgrades to support new javacode, etc.

In short, a niche market. Nothing wrong with that at all, but nothing more either.

[Hansen]

While a netbook will definately not meet everyone's needs, especially power users, it will make internet access and cloud based applications available to a whole new socio-economic class that previously could not afford a traditional laptop or desktop PC. I think this could cause the next significant growth spurt in the internet.

[hdtvfan0001]

While a netbook will definately not meet everyone's needs, especially power users, it will make internet access and cloud based applications available to a whole new socio-economic class that previously could not afford a traditional laptop or desktop PC. I think this could cause the next significant growth spurt in the internet.

I suspect if someone can afford Internet service, they can afford a device that connects through it. ;)

If it's about cost....you can always gain access at or near "free" at the local library.

[Drew2k]

I was at Costco today and they're selling an Acer Netbook for ~$379. It was "cute", would definitely fit in someone's "biggish" purse, but not in a fanny-pack, and runs Windows XP.

With "clouds" so rampant I could see that schools might want to move to Netbooks, as the school could host the applications and even storage for the students and at the same time keep costs down.

[houskamp]

Define "exploding", because there is not a retailer (online or other) in this area who markets them at all. As for schools...they're all using conventional PC's, mostly Dell or HP.

I can see a market for those who only want base Internet access and e-mail, but beyond that, there are limitations in terms of speed, power, graphics, and future upgrades to support new javacode, etc.

In short, a niche market. Nothing wrong with that at all, but nothing more either.
Local bestbuy here has had several on display for weeks.. you have to look for them as they blend right in with the smaller laptops..

[Steve Mehs]

I've yet to see someone use a netbook in day to day life. I've played with them at Best Buy, while interest seems to be lacking, three times I've seen people lose interest when the sales guy tells them there's no optical storage. After thinking about it, I believe these will be more the Tablet PC then the Palmtop. There will be some interest, but in a few years they will be forgotten.

[Belaya Smert]

I expect more of a trend towards appliance computers.
All firmware, with little to no potential for user misconfiguration and an immunity to viruses and malware.
Hotels rooms will include an appliance computer device with Internet connectivity. Ditto for airline seats, and of course our new hi-speed rail systems.
The interface will be standardized and as familiar as a traditional phone dial was to our parents and grandparents.
Unique user data will be stored securely in online depositories or in ultra portable media carried on the person.

There already is a market for these types of machines, as evidenced by the popularity of programs like Deep Freeze.
There may still exit a market share for user-configurable machines, in a generational transition phase, but they will eventually die off the vine just as the rotary phones and VCR's have done.

[phat78boy]

Size is a big selling point for these guys, but it seems that most people buying don't realize what they are getting. Most of them have no recovery option built in and for a basic user who just wants internet and email, its a true nightmare to fix. The cost for a typical reload at a local computer shop is almost the cost of the computer itself.

The other big minus to me is current resolution limits. 1024x768 is just not enough for me to get anything done. On a lot of websites you find yourself scrolling left to right and that just really annoys me.

All that being said, my wife has one and she loves it. When she needs to do anything real though, she does use her computer as the keyboard and display is just too small to really get work done in her opinion.

[hdtvfan0001]

Local bestbuy here has had several on display for weeks.. you have to look for them as they blend right in with the smaller laptops..
None at mine (yet)...just there in that area yesterday.
The other big minus to me is current resolution limits. 1024x768 is just not enough for me to get anything done. On a lot of websites you find yourself scrolling left to right and that just really annoys me.
I'm with you on that....just got a 20" wide-screen LCD monitor as my self-induced upgrade on the PC yesterday. How I ever lived with a 17" monitor and 1024 X 768 is puzzling. ;)

With a significantly-aging population...going to rinky dinky screen devices (including those munchkin-screened "smart"phones) will be much less in demand - except, of course, for the Gen Z'ers, who embrace that stuff.

Anyone try to read an attachment on an iPhone or Crackberry? What a joke.

[durl]

While my PDA will always be my main "netbook," I could see picking up a netbook to replace my laptop when it dies. Most of the duties my laptop performed have moved to a newer PC so the limited capabilities of a netbook would be good enough for me.

[dave29]

Anyone try to read an attachment on an iPhone or Crackberry? What a joke.

I tried yesterday, and I don't know why I even wasted my time.:rolleyes:

[HDJulie]

I can't see those damned little screens but with my iPhone I am able to read most things or I use the pinch movement to make the item bigger. Works great for me.

[steve053]

I see netbooks all the time in airports. Last month I flew from Milwaukee to Orlando and counted at least five people using them on each flight. In fact the guy sitting next to me was using one and let me try it out for a few minutes.

I just bought an Acer One last night for $312 as it's the perfect traveling notebook for my needs. It has b/g wireless built in and I can tether my blackberry and get decent 3g speeds when there is no wifi available.

It will never replace my desktop, and doesn't have the processing power of a "real" laptop. But who wants to lug around a huge notebook when traveling.

I've read a number of articles last year suggesting that the reason Windows 7 development is moving along so quickly is that Vista won't run on netbooks and Windows is loosing ground to Linux in this area.

Netbooks are one of the few bright spots in electronics. Althought I'm not sure they will be around in the same format in 3-5 years.

[ChiWavDave]

Define "exploding", because there is not a retailer (online or other) in this area who markets them at all. As for schools...they're all using conventional PC's, mostly Dell or HP.

I can see a market for those who only want base Internet access and e-mail, but beyond that, there are limitations in terms of speed, power, graphics, and future upgrades to support new javacode, etc.

In short, a niche market. Nothing wrong with that at all, but nothing more either.

Ok, Well here are the facts from my mfg. In regards to e-tail (amazon, newegg etc.) the netbook space is by far the fastest growing of ALL IT products. They are outselling notebooks and desktop PC's in some instances 2x, 3x. In regards to retail, ask your local Sams Club or Costco manager what is selling and what they are stocking. In regards to K-12 (a market I have sold into for 20 years) The entire buzz is about 1:1 computing. giving each child a laptop. (schools havent bought many desktops since the 02-03 timeframe) We have had literally thousands of units of notebooks sales turn into Netbook sales, due to the price first and foremost and the small form factor fit smaller hands to a "T".

[hdtvfan0001]

Ok, Well here are the facts from my mfg. In regards to e-tail (amazon, newegg etc.) the netbook space is by far the fastest growing of ALL IT products. They are outselling notebooks and desktop PC's in some instances 2x, 3x. In regards to retail, ask your local Sams Club or Costco manager what is selling and what they are stocking. In regards to K-12 (a market I have sold into for 20 years) The entire buzz is about 1:1 computing. giving each child a laptop. (schools havent bought many desktops since the 02-03 timeframe) We have had literally thousands of units of notebooks sales turn into Netbook sales, due to the price first and foremost and the small form factor fit smaller hands to a "T".
That's not at all what is seen in the S.E. U.S...that's for sure....notebook sales abound...netbooks are rare....at least at retailers here. According to the manager at my nearby BB, he states they now sell 4X the number of laptops as desktops. I will ask him about netbooks on my next visit.

On the Best Buy website, they show 3, all at $899 (Sony)...no thanks.

Again, I see them as a niche market, as many people I know have no use for any device with a small screen.

[Steve]

I'm on the sidelines for now, but will eventually buy a netbook when I find one for $149 that runs Windows7 and has at least 64GB of flash plus 2GB RAM. Laugh if you will, I bet it won't be long.I'm with you on the h/w, but I think you're being optimistic about the pricing of Windows 7! :lol: Linux would do it for me, tho. Would just need a browser and office suite on it. Maybe a media player. /steve

[ChiWavDave]

That's not at all what is seen in the S.E. U.S...that's for sure....notebook sales abound...netbooks are rare....at least at retailers here. According to the manager at my nearby BB, he states they now sell 4X the number of laptops as desktops. I will ask him about netbooks on my next visit.

Again, I see them as a niche market, as many people I know have no use for any device with a small screen.

I think maybe the peice of the puzzle your missing, is these are not "computing" products these are internet access devices, just like a cell phone. We sell a black version for corporate IT customers, but I can tell you our most popular flavors are white, pink and blue. At college campus bookstores, mom and dad buy Jr. a laptop before he goes to school, but Jr. is in the bookstore buying a netbook for his music, media, websurfing, and note taking. Our standard unit gets 8 hr of battery and fits in a kids backpack and weighs 2lbs. Speaking of the SE US. We just sold several hundred of these to the FSU bookstore. I go all the way back to the HP Jornada series (I do not work for HP). That product was ahead of its time. 95% of what most students do is web/server based due to their primary device is their phone not their laptop/PC. All I can share is my experience. We literally cannot manufacturer these things fast enough, it caught us totally by surprise, as we are grizzled IT guys as well. We thought it would be niche. We were wrong.

[Stuart Sweet]

I had read somewhere, and I'll try to find it again, that there will be a version of Windows7 for netbooks with advantageous pricing. I'm sure it won't have any of the business features and will probably be confined to pre-installs, but it would be nice.

[Steve]

I had read somewhere, and I'll try to find it again, that there will be a version of Windows7 for netbooks with advantageous pricing. I'm sure it won't have any of the business features and will probably be confined to pre-installs, but it would be nice.Ya. I did see that there would be a version too. Didn't see pricing tho. At any rate, Linux'd probably be OK on a unit like that, don't you think? /steve

[ChiWavDave]

Ya. I did see that there would be a version too. Didn't see pricing tho. At any rate, Linux'd probably be OK on a unit like that, don't you think? /steve

We've got a linux version coming out this summer.

[hdtvfan0001]

I have a PDA that's Web-enabled and honestly....use it on a very limited basis and certainly not for e-mail (which is well-supported).

In the end - those small screen devices are a problem for many people, not only to use, but even just to accept as a technology in the first place.

College kids love anything techy and new, let alone small. I'm not surprised that this niche might like them...at least for a while. Once their limits of screen size and processing power are felt, who knows.

All I know is that for $450, I get get a very powerful notebook computer in various screen sizes and alot of processing horsepower. It also is web enabled and pretty mobile. That means I'd actually use it (and do).

[Steve]

We've got a linux version coming out this summer.What are you shipping now, XP? Curious what the difference in MSRP will be between the Linux and XP versions. /steve

[ChiWavDave]

What are you shipping now, XP? Curious what the difference in MSRP will be between the Linux and XP versions. /steve

ours come standard with XP home, but most IT users are swapping that out with either Linux now or XP Pro. Microsoft and Intel limit what we can do for OS and memory in order to call them Netbooks and get that pricing. They can be souped up so to speak after market. You won't see much of any difference in price.

[ChiWavDave]

I have a PDA that's Web-enabled and honestly....use it on a very limited basis and certainly not for e-mail (which is well-supported).

In the end - those small screen devices are a problem for many people, not only to use, but even just to accept as a technology in the first place.

College kids love anything techy and new, let alone small. I'm not surprised that this niche might like them...at least for a while. Once their limits of screen size and processing power are felt, who knows.

All I know is that for $450, I get get a very powerful notebook computer in various screen sizes and alot of processing horsepower. It also is web enabled and pretty mobile. That means I'd actually use it (and do).


I'm with you HDTVFan. But the world is a changing, Its a twitter, gmail, and facebook world nowadays. Most people under the age of 25 dont even use email to communicate. The Web 1.0 world is dead. MS office is dead, they just don't know it yet. The question is where do phones and Notebooks converge. Answer that question and you have your trillion dollar success story. Is it an Iphone type with projection based keyboard and 16:9 fold out OLED screen or is it a netbook given free or severly discounted like the ATT deal that started this thread. 85% of people under the age of 30 in Japan do 100% of their computing on their phone and don't even own a laptop/notebook, netboook etc.

[HDJulie]

I'm with you HDTVFan. But the world is a changing, Its a twitter, gmail, and facebook world nowadays. Most people under the age of 25 dont even use email to communicate. The Web 1.0 world is dead. MS office is dead, they just don't know it yet. The question is where do phones and Notebooks converge. Answer that question and you have your trillion dollar success story. Is it an Iphone type with projection based keyboard and 16:9 fold out OLED screen or is it a netbook given free or severly discounted like the ATT deal that started this thread. 85% of people under the age of 30 in Japan do 100% of their computing on their phone and don't even own a laptop/notebook, netboook etc.

What I find intriguing is how this generation is going to keep up with all of their electronic files. I have a good bit of data (pics, music, docs) that I back up on various media but I've been digital only for about 10 years & of that, only the last 6 or 7 where I really used a digital camera. My stepchildren are just now starting to have their own kids & I wonder how they will store the gazillion pics, music, videos, etc they will collect over the next lifetime. Someone mentioned elsewhere the possiblity of online storage & that's my guess for what we'll all use eventually. With online storage there isn't the need for big drive spaces anymore. I don't notice the kids playing pc games anymore either -- they prefer the XBOX or Wii or whatever so I think the processor is not as much of an issue either.

If the kids aren't emailing, what are they doing -- chatting or twitter or something?

[hdtvfan0001]

I'm with you HDTVFan. But the world is a changing, Its a twitter, gmail, and facebook world nowadays. Most people under the age of 25 dont even use email to communicate. The Web 1.0 world is dead. MS office is dead, they just don't know it yet. The question is where do phones and Notebooks converge.

I agree with all your points.

As for the question....I am of the belief that a small screen does not support convergence. Unless someone shows me otherwise....perhaps with a magnifying glass. :D

[Steve]

What I find intriguing is how this generation is going to keep up with all of their electronic files. I have a good bit of data (pics, music, docs) that I back up on various media but I've been digital only for about 10 years & of that, only the last 6 or 7 where I really used a digital camera. My stepchildren are just now starting to have their own kids & I wonder how they will store the gazillion pics, music, videos, etc they will collect over the next lifetime. Someone mentioned elsewhere the possiblity of online storage & that's my guess for what we'll all use eventually. With online storage there isn't the need for big drive spaces anymore. I don't notice the kids playing pc games anymore either -- they prefer the XBOX or Wii or whatever so I think the processor is not as much of an issue either.

If the kids aren't emailing, what are they doing -- chatting or twitter or something?FWIW, Here are Google's current online storage charges:

10GB - $20/yr
40GB - $75/yr
150GB - $250/yr
400GB - $500/yr

/steve

[ChiWavDave]

What I find intriguing is how this generation is going to keep up with all of their electronic files. I have a good bit of data (pics, music, docs) that I back up on various media but I've been digital only for about 10 years & of that, only the last 6 or 7 where I really used a digital camera. My stepchildren are just now starting to have their own kids & I wonder how they will store the gazillion pics, music, videos, etc they will collect over the next lifetime. Someone mentioned elsewhere the possiblity of online storage & that's my guess for what we'll all use eventually. With online storage there isn't the need for big drive spaces anymore. I don't notice the kids playing pc games anymore either -- they prefer the XBOX or Wii or whatever so I think the processor is not as much of an issue either.

If the kids aren't emailing, what are they doing -- chatting or twitter or something?

Its almost 100% texting with some twittering (thats even getting too old for them) and some facebook.

[hdtvfan0001]

FWIW, Here are Google's current online storage charges:

10GB - $20/yr
40GB - $75/yr
150GB - $250/yr
400GB - $500/yr

/steve
Can you say Home Equity Loan? :D:lol:

[ChiWavDave]

I agree with all your points.

As for the question....I am of the belief that a small screen does not support convergence. Unless someone shows me otherwise....perhaps with a magnifying glass. :D

In another division of my company, they are working on imbedded projectors for cell phones that can give you a 16:9 full resoltion screen up to about 30 inches on your wall. Combine that with a bluetooth keyboard and viola.

[phat78boy]

To a less techinical consumer who goes to the store looking for a laptop and sees a netbook, they think its one heck of a deal. I mean its smaller, lighter, runs windows, and cost 2-4 times less money. Of course they are selling 2-3 times faster, they are starting to get into the impulse buy category for money.

Now if everyone who bought one understood the limitations of how they could be used and what they could be used for, I think things would be a little different. I still think they would sell well, but I'm guessing a good part of those people would instead save up for something that had more power. I have a 13" laptop that is still a relative power house and I have friends/family asking me all the time for this software or to give them a copy of that blu-ray movie I have in file format. Once they get, they can't even use it those netbooks and they tell me their frustration in thinking they could use it as a normal computer.

As for Windows 7, I believe they have hammered out for the netbooks to run starter edition. If I recall correctly, I think there is limitation to how many apps you can run at once and the absence of some multimedia functions.

[hdtvfan0001]

In another division of my company, they are working on imbedded projectors for cell phones that can give you a 16:9 full resoltion screen up to about 30 inches on your wall. Combine that with a bluetooth keyboard and viola.
Neat...that has a market for sure.

I actually saw a cigarette-pack-size projector just the other day, and was impressed on just how well it worked.
To a less techinical consumer who goes to the store looking for a laptop and sees a netbook, they think its one heck of a deal. I mean its smaller, lighter, runs windows, and cost 2-4 times less money.
Ummm......try costing TWICE as much as a laptop, not half...

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=pcmcat163300050051&type=category&searchresults=1&searchterm=netbook

[ChiWavDave]

Neat...that has a market for sure.

I actually saw a cigarette-pack-size projector just the other day, and was impressed on just how well it worked.

Ummm......try costing TWICE as much as a laptop, not half...

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=pcmcat163300050051&type=category&searchresults=1&searchterm=netbook

HDTV, nobodys buying Sony. Most if not all of these sell between $350-$500. Asus has #1 market share in the space, my company is not far behind.

Here are the best sellers from Amazon...

http://www.amazon.com/s/qid=1239136078/ref=sr_kk_3?ie=UTF8&search-alias=aps&field-keywords=netbook%20computers

[hdtvfan0001]

HDTV, nobodys buying Sony.
I can see why...:D

[houskamp]

I can see these as great starter computers especialy for kids.. the battery life will also bring them to many buisness aplications..

I know a lot of people that are still running outdated computers because they don't need a real computer.. lots of people never use them for anything but the web/email..

[phat78boy]

Ummm......try costing TWICE as much as a laptop, not half...

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=pcmcat163300050051&type=category&searchresults=1&searchterm=netbook

As with any item, there are those which are overpriced. In the computer world, that seems to always be Sony. However, of their 21 models listed on the webpage above, 14 are 500$ or below. A good amount of these netbooks are found in the 300$ range. I would venture to say that the 800-1000$ netbooks aren't the ones flying off shelves.

[Stuart Sweet]

I think Sony missed the boat on the netbook market, they were thinking "high-end lifestyle portable." However, a lot of their other products are now competively priced. My Sony Laptop was $200 less than a comparable HP.

[Steve]

As with any item, there are those which are overpriced. In the computer world, that seems to always be Sony. However, of their 21 models listed on the webpage above, 14 are 500$ or below. A good amount of these netbooks are found in the 300$ range. I would venture to say that the 800-1000$ netbooks aren't the ones flying off shelves.Ya. I get sale alerts almost daily for netbooks in the $200 range. I guess because they're windows/linux based and not subject to "price fixing" (for want of a better term) like gadgets with proprietary OS's (iPods or cell phones, e.g.), they'll continue to drop in price as long as the key components keep dropping in price. /steve

[bobukcat]

(although another old school device is trying to stop everybody from using the name netbook, Psion is suing all of us claiming a copyright on the term)...

I've been wondering about that since I started hearing about this new boom. I worked for Psion back in 2002/3 when they introduced the NetBook Pro (aka Series 7), originally with EPOC and eventually with Win CE. It was a pretty cool device but never sold well (much like all of their products) - they couldn't even get their own sales force to use them with any regularity.

[Drew2k]

I'm on a business trip right now and while walking through two airports, I saw five people using netbooks but I didn't see anyone using full-blown notebooks. I think before this thread I would not even have noticed those netbooks, just assuming they're laptops, but now my awareness has been raised and ... there they were. :)

[hdtvfan0001]

I'm on a business trip right now and while walking through two airports, I saw five people using netbooks but I didn't see anyone using full-blown notebooks. I think before this thread I would not even have noticed those netbooks, just assuming they're laptops, but now my awareness has been raised and ... there they were. :)
They musta been Southwest passengers...they're used to cheap and small. :D

[Drew2k]

They musta been Southwest passengers...they're used to cheap and small. :DIt was the Southwest terminal, so yes, they were Southwest passengers. I will say that this was not my first Southwest flight and it won't be my last, but despite being forced to use them, there is just NO getting used to it ... :nono2:

[hdtvfan0001]

I guess I am not alone in my views on these thingys....

http://msn-cnet.com.com/8301-13924_3-10215341-64.html?part=msn-cnet&subj=ns&tag=feed

[Steve]

I guess I am not alone in my views on these thingys....

http://msn-cnet.com.com/8301-13924_3-10215341-64.html?part=msn-cnet&subj=ns&tag=feedThat article is headlined: "Intel VP: Netbooks not for adults"

For sure that's what Intel (and probably AMD) will say, IMHO. They want to sell more profitable Core CPU's and not Atoms, where there's relatively little profit margin. But guess what, Intel? You don't need Core 2's for wordprocessing, texting, e-mail or browsing. /steve

[hdtvfan0001]

But guess what, Intel? You don't need Core 2's for wordprocessing, texting, e-mail or browsing. /steve
Unfortunately, that's about all they manufacture these days...and now even starting to see more quad cores.

[Steve]

Unfortunately, that's about all they manufacture these days...and now even starting to see more quad cores.Intel is the main supplier of the Atom chip, too, AFAIK. I suspect that they are just not happy that it's doing so well at the expense of their more profitable CPU's. /steve

[hdtvfan0001]

Intel is the main supplier of the Atom chip, too, AFAIK. I suspect that they are just not happy that it's doing so well at the expense of their more profitable CPU's. /steve
Agreed...especially since the margins must be lower too. :D

The main point there in this article supports my contention that its a niche market product.

[Steve]

Agreed...especially since the margins must be lower too. :D

The main point there in this article supports my contention that its a niche market product.Are you sure about that? Might want to read it again. :) The author quotes industry execs who say that, but doesn't seem to be buying it himself, if I'm reading it correctly. /steve

[harsh]

I'm on the sidelines for now, but will eventually buy a netbook when I find one for $149 that runs Windows7 and has at least 64GB of flash plus 2GB RAM. Laugh if you will, I bet it won't be long.Running Windows and the associated headaches more or less defeats the purpose of netbooks. Netbooks are designed to be Internet client machines, not general purpose computers with insufficient power to do anything productive.

The goal is to make everything so it will run with just a web browser so you don't have to carry around gigabytes of code that needs to be updated and purged of various and sundry malware on a regular basis.

Windows is the problem, not the solution.

[Stuart Sweet]

I'll agree with you, Mr. Harsh, when Slingplayer for Linux comes out. Until then any small device I buy has to run Windows.

Linux has GIMP, Firefox and OpenOffice, that covers most of my needs, but you can have my Slingbox when you pry it out of... you get the idea :)

[hdtvfan0001]

Are you sure about that? Might want to read it again. :) The author quotes industry execs who say that, but doesn't seem to be buying it himself, if I'm reading it correctly. /steve
...more interested (and believing) the majority....

As for Windows being a problem...I would say not...in that XP is probably the most solid operating system out there period....but certainly more horsepower than it takes to run a toy like a Netbook. :D

[djlong]

You absolutely DO need 2 processors, though you SHOULDN'T need to. These days you need one processor just to fight off attacks so that your other processor can do whatever it is that you WANT to do.

[Steve]

You absolutely DO need 2 processors, though you SHOULDN'T need to. These days you need one processor just to fight off attacks so that your other processor can do whatever it is that you WANT to do.Sort of to your point, looks (http://www.intel.com/technology/atom/) like if not already, we're gonna be seeing the equivalent of dual- and quad-core Atoms from Intel! :)

"Based on an entirely new microarchitecture, the Intel® Atom™ processor was developed specifically for targeted performance and low power while maintaining full Intel® Core™ microarchitecture instruction set compatibility. Intel® Atom™ processors also feature multiple threads for better performance and increased system responsiveness."

/steve

[phrelin]

We had four of these in the mid 1980's:
http://www.phrelin.com/Computers/images/model100.jpg
There were no graphics, of course, and they had a built-in modem, just a bit slow and no internet as people undersand it today, though we had Compuserve service. Did have word processing, spreadsheet, and database functions of sorts, but even using those functions it was best simply as a "notebook" for quickly "jotting things down" to transfer to the larger computers.

See our whole early-to-mid 1980's business system here (http://www.phrelin.com/Computers/tandy.htm).

[Stuart Sweet]

How fondly I remember the Model 100. This was the perfect notebook computer for the day. It ran forever on a couple of batteries and had a full-size keyboard. It was also a great value back then.

[Nick]

Michael Horowitz of ComputerWorld critiques, no, criticizes, no,
savages Consumer Reports' recent review of netbook computers.

Read all about it here:

ComputerWorld: What Consumer Reports didn't tell you about netbooks

By Michael Horowitz

I'm a big fan of Consumer Reports magazine, having been a subscriber for many years. However, when it comes to computers, their reports often disappoint. The review of netbooks in the June 2009 issue is such a case in point.

There are three reasons people buy netbooks: portability, price and Windows XP. Nowhere does the article mention that netbooks run Windows XP Home Edition rather than Vista. Certainly the familiar environs of XP play a part in the popularity of netbooks. For many, XP is what they know and they want to stick with it. Vista is very different and not everyone wants to undergo the learning curve it entails. At retail, netbooks are the only machines offering XP. ...
.

Full story @ ComputerWorld (http://blogs.computerworld.com/what_consumer_reports_didnt_tell_you_about_netbook s)

[HDJulie]

So is this guy saying that people are shopping for computers & they see the netbooks that have Windows XP & decide "hey, I'm going to buy this netbook because it has Windows XP instead of that crappy Vista!". In other words, forgoing a regular computer because they can't get one with XP & settling for the netbook that does have XP.

[Nick]

Not sure if that was a question or a statement, Julie, but full-size XP-based
notebooks are still plentiful through OL discounters. I know -- I have one! :)

[Nick]

"Six out of 10 netbook buyers...
thought that their new netbook
would have the same functionality
as a laptop."

PC World:Netbook owners are more likely to be disappointed with their machines than people who purchase larger and more expensive laptops, a retail research firm said today.

Just 58% of consumers who bought a netbook rather than a notebook said they were very satisfied, compared to 70% who admitted they planned to buy a netbook all along, according to a survey of 600 American adults conducted by the NPD Group.

The disappointment with netbooks -- NPD analyst Stephen Baker preferred that term rather than "dissatisfaction" -- stemmed from expectations that a netbook was the same, more or less, as a laptop. Six out of every 10 netbook buyers, said Baker, thought that the two were equivalent, and figured that their new netbook would have the same functionality as a laptop. ...More @ PCWorld.com (http://www.pcworld.com/article/167173/netbooks_disappoint.html?tk=rss_news)

[Nick]

Five Tips for Back-to-School Netbook Shopping

Whether you’re spending less in the recession or not, scaling back on your college-bound kid’s next computer purchase may be a smart move.

Netbooks are becoming a more popular alternative to laptops and desktops, thanks to new technology that has put considerable computing power in the small, ultra-portable devices. The devices are also economical: netbooks rarely top $400, and many basic models cost half that. "For 95% of users, a netbook is their next computer," says Alex L. Goldfayn, an independent technology analyst who hosts the nationally syndicated radio show "The Technology Tailor Minute," where he helps consumers find the right gadgets to fit their needs. "Everyone should be looking at them as an option."

If your back-to-school shopping list includes a netbook, here are five points you need to know to score a good deal: ...More @ SmartMoney.com (http://www.smartmoney.com/spending/technology/5-tips-for-back-to-school-netbook-shopping/#)

[Ric]

Interesting but still not cost effective for me even if used daily:

"If you want the $50 netbook, that’s the minimum offer you have to sign up for; it includes a new, 200 MB-per-month mobile data plan (for $40) combined with basic DSL (for $19.95). $60 a month is decent for a full broadband package, although I think $40 for 200 MB of mobile data is pricey. Customers can package U-verse with the smaller mobile data subscription as an upgrade, too. AT&T also has its standard 5GB plan for $60 per month for those who aren’t interested in DSL, but I imagine it’s hoping the lure of a mobile broadband bundle keeps some of its DSL customers from migrating to cable."

http://gigaom.com/2009/04/01/att-offers-a-50-netbook-and-bundled-broadband-package/

[Zellio]

Running Windows and the associated headaches more or less defeats the purpose of netbooks. Netbooks are designed to be Internet client machines, not general purpose computers with insufficient power to do anything productive.

The goal is to make everything so it will run with just a web browser so you don't have to carry around gigabytes of code that needs to be updated and purged of various and sundry malware on a regular basis.

Windows is the problem, not the solution.

THE REAL PROBLEM is 90% market share, and users who download trojan filled files. Funny how people grilled me for standing up an elderly lady, saying she should've taken responsibility, when arguments here tend to blame Microsoft and absolve user responsibility...

[Zellio]

Interesting but still not cost effective for me even if used daily:

"If you want the $50 netbook, that’s the minimum offer you have to sign up for; it includes a new, 200 MB-per-month mobile data plan (for $40) combined with basic DSL (for $19.95). $60 a month is decent for a full broadband package, although I think $40 for 200 MB of mobile data is pricey. Customers can package U-verse with the smaller mobile data subscription as an upgrade, too. AT&T also has its standard 5GB plan for $60 per month for those who aren’t interested in DSL, but I imagine it’s hoping the lure of a mobile broadband bundle keeps some of its DSL customers from migrating to cable."

http://gigaom.com/2009/04/01/att-offers-a-50-netbook-and-bundled-broadband-package/

I got the $70 acer aspire one bundle at radio shack for 5 gigs a month 3g service at $60...

Now, I get a 15% local government discount, and:

550 minutes family talk
2 cell phones, 1 just for chatting, 1 an iphone
200 text messages
iphone 3g unlimited plan
+ 5 gig 3g hsdpa

is $150 a month. I also was able to transfer my email to the plan, since I was a dsl customer.

Now of course, If I didn't get a local government discount.... I may not have gotten in on it.

[Nick]

Interesting but still not cost effective for me even if used daily...The article clearly recommends not getting a netbook through a cell phone and/or internet bundling deal.

Also, no one has said or even implied that netbooks are for everyone. I currently own several laptops (notebooks) and I am not even considering a netbook at the present time.

[Nick]

The thread topic is 'netbooks, not bundling.

There is another thread in the OT forum to discuss bundling.

[Ken S]

We had four of these in the mid 1980's:
http://www.phrelin.com/Computers/images/model100.jpg
There were no graphics, of course, and they had a built-in modem, just a bit slow and no internet as people undersand it today, though we had Compuserve service. Did have word processing, spreadsheet, and database functions of sorts, but even using those functions it was best simply as a "notebook" for quickly "jotting things down" to transfer to the larger computers.

See our whole early-to-mid 1980's business system here (http://www.phrelin.com/Computers/tandy.htm).

I had the Olivetti M5 version of that computer (different color and the screen tilted up). It was fantastic. I used it throughout law school and for my assignments as a sportswriter. I still have it around here.

As for netbooks...we purchased an Asus 1000HA last fall for traveling and it is fantastic. Great battery life, small, built in camera, WIFI.

Without a problem it:

1. Played back video files using VLC without so much as a stutter.
2. Email
3. Skype with video
4. Web surfing
5. Office Apps

I wouldn't suggest it for high-end graphics, photoshop, etc. but I could see where it could handle the needs of many people fulltime...and it cost under $300.

[Shades228]

These are close to becoming great media clients though and good for computers around the home for every person. You can use desktops for big things but for simple stuff these are good to have to just use around the home.

[MikeW]

I purchased the MSI Wind about a year ago for $400. The features that set it apart from the rest was the 160 GB Hard Drive and built-in bluetooth. I can tether with no wires, which is very convenient. I just need it to connect to other PCs for support, so the processing power is adequate for my use.