OK Charlie, put up or shut up on HDTV

[RAD]

OK, Charlie has said that Dish will be the high definition leader. He's said that HDNet will be coming, but no firm date or cost or what hardware will be needed.

DirecTV has announced ESPN-HD, Discovery HD Theater, HDNet and HDNet movies starting on 7/1 for $10.99 per month and what hardware will be needed.

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030603/35747_1.html

So Charlie, enough with the promises, I want hard facts on how Dish will be the HDTV leaded, when they will be the leader and how much this will cost me. Just my two cents. Rick

[Scott Greczkowski]

Charlie needs to announce something and he needs to announce something quickly.

Yeah he announced HDNet and HDNet movies, but he didn't tell us how much or when.

It was also mentioned that we might need a new "SuperDish" to see these channels after we were told that buy buying the 8PSK module was all we needed to see future Dish Network HD offerings.

I am told by a few satellite people that the SuperDish idea will NOT work because of G Star 4's inclined orbit.

I have been told by a few contacts that HDNet might be made available on 61.5 and 148 as well as 110. If this is the case then why are these channels not available NOW?

I really is time for Charlie to put up or shut up.

As of July 1st, I would say that DirecTV is the HDTV Leader.

Let's see what magic Charlie can do, the game is not over yet.

[Charlie doesn\'t fool me]

"I am told by a few satellite people that the SuperDish idea will NOT work because of G Star 4's inclined orbit."

Not only that, but the power output is down to less than 17 watts. Even if not inclined, the slightest rain would disrupt the signal even with a dedicated 1 metre oval dish.

[cbusbee]

I agree with you Scot. I have invested $1,600 for Dish hardware in the last year and a half that I have been a customer. I switched from Directv because Dish seemed to be the market leader in HDTV. This was a tough decision because in my opinion Directv has better hardware and software. But when I was also invested a couple of thousand in a HDTV set I researched through this board and AVS forum and made an educated guess/decision that Dish would offer more HDTV. In other words it was Dish's commitment to HDTV programming that brought me over from DTV where I had been a customer since day one (I still am for the NFL ticket). In fact I may buy a DTV STB to just catch 1 HD football game on Sundays.

I purchased the 8VSB module and have 2 dishes so that I could receive whatever HD Dish offers. What I really want is ESPN-HD, like most guys. Sports is what I really watch on tv. Sports is what is going to make HDTV a must buy for consumers. Most men will not spend $2,000 for watching movies but will spend it to watch their favorite sports.

I am impressed with Dish's customer service focus and hope they will focus on their high-end customers. I think HDTV will drive profits going forward if the satelite companies stay in the forefront of the movement. I subscribe to the top 100 package although we only watch 5-10 channels but would be willing to pay a little extra for a HDTV package. But if I recall when I spent $100 for the 8VSB module it included a 1 year subscription to DiscoveryHD, so a credit adjustment would be needed for customers like myself. I would suggest dropping some of the standard definition cable channels that nobody watches and adding more HDTV.

[RAD]

I was a DirecTV customer and had purchased a Mits HD STB and the DirecTV+ dish. Four months later I dumped it all for Dish since they had ShowtimeHD. While I had the Dish Digital plan for a 501+301 I had to purchase the 61.5 dish, SW64, Dish6000+8VSB and later the 8PSK, all at 'list' prices. I've also traded in the 301 and purchased, again at list since there no deal, a 508. So I've spent a bunch of $'s on Dish hardware but if DirecTV comes out with a HDTV PVR before the often promised 921 is available I'll dump it all again and switch back. Everyone's always said that HDTV needs content and frankly DirecTV is showing that they'll have more then Dish at this time.

[Greg Johnson]

Scott,

I agree with you 110%. It looks like D* has one- upped Charlie again. As an E* subscriber, I am a little jealous and pissed right now. I have invested $500 for a 6000, $150 for an 8VSB module, $50 for an 8PSK module and $150 for a SW64 switch. Add in the Dish 500 upgrade, my 2 other receivers and I've got way over a $1000 invested in E* hardware. I think Charlie knows that this is the case for most E* HD subscribers. In other words, he has us all by the shorthairs. I am going to be really pissed if I have to redo my system to get new HD content.  :shrug:

On the other hand, as soon as the initial euphoria wears off for D* HD subscribers. They will start complaining about compression D* will have to use to display all the new HD content. :p

Greg

[Chris Blount]

Originally posted by cbusbee
Most men will not spend $2,000 for watching movies but will spend it to watch their favorite sports.
I'm the exact opposite. I can care less about sports on HDTV and would rather have more High Definition movies and special programming. Sports looks fantastic in HD, but it's not a selling point for me...and yes, I have spent over $2000 to watch HD movies.

[raj2001]

Now now children, no need to fight :)

The DBS and HDTV landscape is in transition, and who knows what will happen next. I'm waiting for TiVo to come out with a HDTV box for DirecTV, then I'll go HD. Right now it's just not worth the investment for me.

[sampatterson]

Come on Charlie, give us HDNET, ESPN and DiscoveryHD for the same price we are paying for DiscoveryHD now! That would one up Direct.

[MarkL]

How does Dish need to "catchup"? Dish announced the HDNets were coming over a month ago and we've had Discovery for over a year, and ESPN has already been signed as well. Looks like Direct is the one that's finally catching up.

[Martyva]

The Window for BOTH Dish and Direct may by closing.http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=SVBIZINK3.story&STORY=/www/story/06-03-2003/0001958044&EDATE=TUE+Jun+03+2003,+07:04+AM

[BobMurdoch]

Originally posted by MarkL
How does Dish need to "catchup"? Dish announced the HDNets were coming over a month ago and we've had Discovery for over a year, and ESPN has already been signed as well. Looks like Direct is the one that's finally catching up.

ESPN and E* have a deal? I thought they were still in negotiations.....

I'm frustrated either way as I am ready to get HD on my HD capable monitor, but I refuse to pay for a discontinued 6000 model to get it. As soon as the 921 hits the street I'm getting it.

Don't underestimate the bandwidth restrictions that the D* have to face. The Superdish is still vaporware until proven otherwise (then again the 921 is as well), so I'll be interested to see how they allocate the bandwidth.

All things being equal however, the image quality on E* has been pretty good lately. The compression seems to be down as my 57" screen tends to amplify artifacts and compression issues.

[Mike123abc]

Dish has the capacity sitting on 110 right now to light up HDNET/HDMovies/ESPN and a few others if it wanted to, and they could even say they are temporary on 110 and moving to 121/105 on a certain date (i.e. when new satellites are finally up).

I bet they are still negotiating carriage of ESPN-HD. Knowing E* they are fighting tooth and nail to get ESPN-HD at a cheap price.

Dish should light them up on 110 and say something to the effect that after 1/1/04 or 6/1/04 you will have to have the SuperDish or something.

[Saving my money for later]

Originally posted by Martyva
The Window for BOTH Dish and Direct may by closing

I have seen 1 of the Motorola prototypes that includes the cable modem + wireless, 2 tuner HD PVR. But it's not only the hardware but the firmware that offers such potential.

It implemented properly and the cable guys don't get too greedy - yes, this will stop DBS HD dead in it's tracks in cable country.

[homergreg]

Originally posted by Saving my money for later


It implemented properly and the cable guys don't get too greedy

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ;)

[Marcus S]

I am surprised that anyone else is surprised. I brought this issue up awhile back, but then I guess there are those that still thought Charlie would deliver new feature rich HD equipment and add HD programming in a timely fashion. Posted Jan, this is June. !rolling Speculation is late Sept, reality is probably Dec/Jan.

1st release, a none UHF HD receiver. If I where still on E* I would be privileged to purchase $100 worth of PowerMid IR repeaters.
-not! Bugs in the 1st software release, expected.

[Martyva]

i don't think that's a motorola prototype (unless they're a source builder), but the Moxi that was touted at dish 2 years ago. I think the technology was developed by Ron Pearlman (?) the developer of WebTV and sold to Paul Allen. At CES this year, they told me it was in testing and should start showing up on cable systems next year, but no plans for satellite.

[xgrep]

Originally posted by RAD
[...] if DirecTV comes out with a HDTV PVR before the often promised 921 is available I'll dump it all again and switch backI'm starting to think the same thing. Been waiting for an HD PVR for quite a while. If only DirecTV would carry my darn French station ... but that might not be enough to keep me married to E*.

Then there's ComCast still in the wings ... keeping a close eye on that, too.

x

[Bichon]

DirecTV may have announced their package, but they don't have 8PSK, nor do they have a plan like SuperDish. So they will be cramming two HDTV channels on each QPSK transponder, resulting in poorer picture quality than we get with Dish Network.

I'd love to have the new channels, but *not* at the cost of reduced picture quality. Even though I'm a Dish Network customer, I don't like what DirecTV is doing -- it sets a bad precedent. That's why I'll be staying with Dish, even if it means a longer wait.

[Mike123abc]

2 HDTV channels per transponder may not cause a problem at QPSK. 8PSK has promise of doing 3 per transponder on higher power satellites. Most HDTV signals do not use 19mbit of signal. In fact the average 1080i is now closer to 12mbit/sec average. You can put 2 channels on a transponder and just have to have some downresing ONLY when BOTH channels peak at the same time.

DirecTV with QPSK 7/8 FEC gives them about 32.57 mbit/sec per transponder. So, each signal can get 16 Mbit/sec, or one can peak to 19 while the other does 13.

Now with 8PSK Dish can do 40mbit/sec on lower power satellites (like on the wings with 2/3 FEC), and 52.52 mbit/sec on the high power ones like 110. So, they can squeeze 3 on a transponder for 17.5 mbit/sec each very likely to be able to be done since more unlikely 3 will peak at once.

So, if dish does HDTV at 105 or 121 lower power they will get 2/transponder just like DirecTV can. But, Direct will run the risk of occassionally having to downres if both peak at the same time where dish can pass both through without worry.

[jzoomer]

DISH is interesting in the way they conduct their business. They claim to be the leader in HD delivery and yet have no HDTV receiver in production. They have better modulations scheme to transfer more HDTV through 8PSK but given their lack of programming there is no need for the module. They announce “revolutionary” hardware that by the time they release the buggy platform it lags what others are doing. They announce addition of new channels but give no dates. It will be there someday.

I am getting the impression that DISH is playing their customers as if they are marks: using news leaks and promises to con customers into staying. They make promises to string their customers along into buying modules for an antique receiver and avoid customer cancellation. I wouldn’t be surprise if the “secret” ESPN-HD DISH deal in Feb./Mar. was leaked to Scott as part of the deception.

DISH has potential but they can’t string their customers on forever. On the other hand, Charlie is currently making money for his company using his bag of tricks. For me, I will go where the content and the receivers are. When the HD Tivo comes out this winter with Directv content, I think you will see a lot of DISH customers move to Directv. Of course there will always be the faithful few who will still be waiting for the 921 (or a new version of firmware to make it work) and ESPN-HD.

[JMikeF]

Response from Dish to my email expressing concern that DirecTV has announced more HD programming with a date:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:
<HR>
Dear Mr. Ferrara,

Thank you for your email. DISH Network continues to seek ways to expand services for its customers and increase competition to cable. DISH Network recently announced plans to add HDNet and HDNet Movies to DISH Network's existing HDTV lineup of Discovery Theater HD, HBO, Showtime, CBS and a pay-per-view movie channel. With HDNet and HDNet Movies, DISH Network customers will be able to enjoy great original programming, sports, award-winning movies, timely news, features and documentaries, all in 1080i - the highest possible resolution. HDNet offers more original programming produced in 1080i HD than any other network. The pricing and packaging for HDNet and HDNet Movies will be announced when they are made available to DISH Network customers this summer. HDNet and HDNet Movies will be available to customers using DISH Network's new SuperDish, unveiled at DISH Network's annual Team Summit satellite TV retailer conference.



The SuperDish, an elliptical 66-centimeter (26") dish and is capable of offering customers access to hundreds of popular DISH Network channels, local channels in new markets, HDTV channels and international programming. The SuperDish is capable of receiving satellite signals from three orbital locations. DISH Network will announce pricing and promotional offers for the SuperDish when it is made available to DISH Network customers this summer.

Please watch the monthly Charlie Chats, which can be found on channel 101 (this program usually airs on the second Monday of every month), or visit our website to get the latest information on new programming offered by DISH Network.

As a current customer, you may also use our website to view your current or previous billing statements, add services, or make payments to your account. Please use the link target=_blank>https://customersupport.dishnetwork...ement/login.jsp (https://customersupport.dishnetwork.com/customercare/UserManagement/login.jsp) to visit our Online Customer Support Center.

Your business is greatly appreciated and we thank you for allowing us to be of assistance to you. If you have any further questions or concerns, please refer to target=_blank>www.dishnetwork.com (http://www.dishnetwork.com/) or reply to this email.

Sincerely,

Suzanne P

DISH Network eCare

[RAD]

Blah, Blah, Blah. Dish, when this summer, how much for the package and how much to get Superdish? You should know this information by now so just go ahead and announce it and stop jerking us around.

[Scott Greczkowski]

The SuperDish is nothing more then smoke and mirrors at the moment. From what I know IT WON'T WORK at least it won't work now, the 105 satellite is at an inclined orbit and is very low power.

To say the SuperDish will be available this summer will be some kind of miracle.

I am starting to think the entire HDNet Announcement (with no start date) and the SuperDish announcement were done to pump up the Echostar Stock.

No one made a big deal of things but I understand that Charlie and one or two other senior Echostar officials sold some of their stock right after the anouncements.

Looks like a pump and dump to me.

I feel bad for Martha Stewart now. :)

Come on Charlie give us some SOLID information, please STOP stringing us along.

[Lee L]

Scott, I emailed Charlie and he responded back that Dish would lag DirecTv buy a few weeks but they would have asimilar package he hoped. Now obviously, not something you can take to the bank.

[rvd420]

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski
The SuperDish is nothing more then smoke and mirrors at the moment. From what I know IT WON'T WORK at least it won't work now, the 105 satellite is at an inclined orbit and is very low power.

To say the SuperDish will be available this summer will be some kind of miracle.

I am starting to think the entire HDNet Announcement (with no start date) and the SuperDish announcement were done to pump up the Echostar Stock.

No one made a big deal of things but I understand that Charlie and one or two other senior Echostar officials sold some of their stock right after the anouncements.

Looks like a pump and dump to me.

I feel bad for Martha Stewart now. :)

Come on Charlie give us some SOLID information, please STOP stringing us along.


You are right Superdish will not work now. E* has to wait until SES Americom replaces G4. (Q3 2004)

G4 is only putting out about 14 watts. Not much power.

I don't think even running BPSK 1/2 FEC with one channel per TP would work.
GStar4's TP are 56 mhz wide insread of 27 mhz wide like DBS TP's

E* has enough Conus room on 110 to put up ESPN-HD and HD-Net now. I don't see why E* does not just put HD on 110 on an interim basis, while letting consumers know that a SuperDish will be required to get HD after a set date.

[jeffwtux]

Frankly, I would be outraged if the SuperDish WAS available this summer. Would that mean that you would have to buy the SuperDish this summer to get HDNet and ESPN-HD only months after they just told us that the 8PSK was all we would need to get all the HDTV Dish will offer? I say put HDNet and ESPN-HD on 110, 61.5, or 148 this summer then move them to 105 by Dec 2004. Then package the SuperDish+ install with 921 receiver purchases, when the 921 is ever released, or possibly free with an additional 1 year committment. I'm guessing most of you people complaining about the SuperDish will be getting the 921 the moment it's released anyways(probably on waiting lists already).

[Mike123abc]

I think they will be pushing SuperDish for HDTV but not use it. They will put the HDTV on 110 for now, but when they finally get a new satellite up at 105 they will be able to move channels over to 105. They do not want to get in the position where they move channels from 110 to 105 and have people complain about having to get a new dish. They want to require people to upgrade to superdish so that in the future they will be able to move channels around without worry.

[BUD Owner]

They don't even know if the size of Superdish that they are showing, will with closely spaced FSS high powered Ku band satellites.

Right now they can do a great demo by sticking any garbage lid @107.3 F1 (SC) or @123 G0 (TARBS). These 2 birds are 15 degrees apart

But look at this 2005, scheduled lineup of high powered birds
105 - AMC 15
107.3 - Anik F1R
109.2 - Satmex 6
111.1 - Anik F2
118.9 - Anik F3
121 - E9
123 - G0

Any bets on a 26" or 60cm elliptical dish being able to discriminate signals this close without interference?

[Eyedox]

Next thing you know is that we will all have to go back to the 12 foot oscillating dishes to pick up all the damn satellites to get our programming again! :)

[rowdymon]

Lol. I thought DBS was supposed to stop us from having to buy actuator arms and the like. WTF is going on, Charlie? What's the wait for?

[Karl Foster]

remember that you talking about a guy that will withhold a station in a local DMA if he doesn't get the deal he wants. If he plays like that with the small guys, he'll definitely play like that with the big boys.

[dbronstein]

Originally posted by karl_f
remember that you talking about a guy that will withhold a station in a local DMA if he doesn't get the deal he wants. If he plays like that with the small guys, he'll definitely play like that with the big boys.

That's called negotiating.

[Karl Foster]

Originally posted by dbronstein


That's called negotiating.

I know. My point is that his negotiating tactics are tough. He will withhold service if the price isn't right. It seems to work great for him and the customers don't seem to care that much or they'd leave.

[Bobby94928]

Originally posted by karl_f


I know. My point is that his negotiating tactics are tough. He will withhold service if the price isn't right. It seems to work great for him and the customers don't seem to care that much or they'd leave.

He could let the channels have their way at whatever cost and just pass it along to us.&nbsp; We would drop like flys if he did that, so he's doing the right thing, for him and us.

&nbsp;

Bobby C

[cws80us]

Charlie has been playing a shell game with HD for two years now. Under shell number 1 is the 921, under shell number 2 is the superdish, and under shell number 3 is new programming (ESPN HD, HDNet Movies, HDNet Sports, etc).

The trick is that there really is no way to win at the shell game. It's all a scam to make you think you can win, so you keep on playing. But in the end, there's really nothing under any of the shells.

[Mike123abc]

Originally posted by cws80us
Charlie has been playing a shell game with HD for two years now. Under shell number 1 is the 921, under shell number 2 is the superdish, and under shell number 3 is new programming (ESPN HD, HDNet Movies, HDNet Sports, etc).

The trick is that there really is no way to win at the shell game. It's all a scam to make you think you can win, so you keep on playing. But in the end, there's really nothing under any of the shells.

You have to remember Charlie/E*'s lives do not revolve around DBStalk or other message boards on the internet. 99.999% of Dish customers do not know that DirecTV has announced a new HDTV package. How many ads on TV have you seen about it?

The fact is DirecTV got a press release out first, but Dish is in no hurry to get one out because it will not be seen either. Dish dealers know about SuperDish because it was presented to them. How many customers outside boards like this one know anything about SuperDish/HDTV plans/Satellite issues? The press releases are mainly industry fodder, nothing to do with actual customers. Until a nice marketing brochure arrives and people can see the package and order it will it make a difference.

E* will announce the HDTV plans when E* feels like it, no amount of screaming on the internet boards is going to speed it up.

[homergreg]

Mike,

I couldn't agree with your more. Announcements are for stock holders to keep them happy. How many of Dish's customers have HDTV, or even have any plans for HDTV in the near future? Joe Schmoe wants to be able to get better quality reception on his 27" analog right now for less than what he pays for cable. I'm sure the Echostar will have the HDTV line up ready for when ole Joe wants it, or then they will lose a great deal of business. I'm just glad that they show some commitment for HD now. Hopefully tonight's Charlie chat will make me want to spring for a HD receiver!

[Scott Greczkowski]

Originally posted by Mike123abc
You have to remember Charlie/E*'s lives do not revolve around DBStalk or other message boards on the internet. 99.999% of Dish customers do not know that DirecTV has announced a new HDTV package. How many ads on TV have you seen about it?


Charlie should, you would be how many MAJOR stockholders are DBSTalk members. You would be surprised how many people who own Echostar stock have emailed me to thank us for opening their eyes to whats going on at Echostar.

As for E* not revolving around the site I think you are wrong there too, with our admin tools we can see them here constantly, infact as of late its not uncommon for use to see 15 or more connections at the same time from Echostar IP addresses, and almost the same amount from DirecTV lately.

Now as far as TV ads go, look for them to start on July 1st, I have already seen some ESPN-HD ads which have not aired yet letting everyone know DirecTV has ESPN-HD.

I also know that Best Buy's in house HD distribution network will be getting a new loop next month with all kinds of ESPN-HD and Discovery HD Stuff, I also know that Circuit City will be doing a big push for Discovery HD next month.

Believe me the public is going to know about HDTV in a big way very soon. Call it the start of the HD revolution.

[dbronstein]

Originally posted by homergreg
Mike,

I couldn't agree with your more. Announcements are for stock holders to keep them happy. How many of Dish's customers have HDTV, or even have any plans for HDTV in the near future? Joe Schmoe wants to be able to get better quality reception on his 27" analog right now for less than what he pays for cable. I'm sure the Echostar will have the HDTV line up ready for when ole Joe wants it, or then they will lose a great deal of business. I'm just glad that they show some commitment for HD now. Hopefully tonight's Charlie chat will make me want to spring for a HD receiver!

Speaking as a Joe Schmoe here, I agree completely. The mass acceptance of HDTV is still years away. Most people cannot afford to buy sets at these prices, and there still is not nearly enough programming available. Here in Denver you can't even get HD over the air because they're still fighting over where to put the antennas.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/technology/article/0,1299,DRMN_49_1954560,00.html

HD's time will come, no question. But claiming that Dish is going to fall if they don't get more HD channels up in the next month or two is absurd.

Dennis

[Mike123abc]

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski


Charlie should, you would be how many MAJOR stockholders are DBSTalk members. You would be surprised how many people who own Echostar stock have emailed me to thank us for opening their eyes to whats going on at Echostar.

As for E* not revolving around the site I think you are wrong there too, with our admin tools we can see them here constantly, in fact as of late its not uncommon for use to see 15 or more connections at the same time from Echostar IP addresses, and almost the same amount from DirecTV lately.

Now as far as TV ads go, look for them to start on July 1st, I have already seen some ESPN-HD ads which have not aired yet letting everyone know DirecTV has ESPN-HD.

I also know that Best Buy's in house HD distribution network will be getting a new loop next month with all kinds of ESPN-HD and Discovery HD Stuff, I also know that Circuit City will be doing a big push for Discovery HD next month.

Believe me the public is going to know about HDTV in a big way very soon. Call it the start of the HD revolution.

E* and D* probably monitor the internet closely. All big companies should keep tabs on what is going on the internet as far as their companies and industries are concerned. This board represents a very well informed group of people. But, probably less than 50k of the 20million DBS subs have even looked at a bulletin board on the internet. The number of regular readers even smaller.

People post here like it is the end of the world that one company has announced something and the other one has not. Even the merger story, I would bet less than half the DBS subs even heard anything about the merger.

I agree if E* does not have a plan in place and a road map when TV adds start to show it will make a difference. Best Buy has been running the Discovery HDTV adds in their loop for a long time even though D* does not have it and Best Buy does not have E*. It obviously has not hurt D* too much, and not causing enough problems at Best Buy for them to pull the ad.

[cicijay]

Most Everybody I know that has a E* or D* also has an HDTV ready TV and we are far away from even having HDTV OTA signals here except for PBS.
My morning ritual consists of scanning this board and people I know often ask about HDTV. I have had 2 people ask me why E* doesn't carry ESPN HD because they heard D* does, (they also thought the cable company did too).
I have been with E* for about 5 years, am hooked on PVR and have no plans on changing to D*. I have had a HDTV capable projector since November and am dying to see HDTV on it. I will not buy the 6000 because I will not pay for a discontinued item. I must admit that if there was a HDTV PVR available to go along with the D* anouncement I would have to seriously consider switching to what I perceive as the "HDTV leader".

[Raymond Simonian]

I have two wide screen HDTV's and one is the RCA 38310 with a Direct TV tuner in it. I have been on the brink of switching to D* for a long time now. I also will not buy the 6000. Scott G. thread "Charlie Holding Aces for HDTV?", gives me some hope. I have been disappointed on every Charlie Chat I have listened to since I became a sub in Feb. of 2002. Nothing new is ever presented or actually given a specific date of release.

[SD493]

Was hoping for an announcement about new HD channels tonight but it the same old song, now announcement just promises of things to come.

[Scott Greczkowski]

Charlie said he hopes to add more HD channels over the next few "years"

Time for Charlie to shut up about HDTV.

DirecTV is the leader in HD programming.

[angiodan]

Scott, I have to agree with you. Time to seriously look at Directv, especially if the HD Tivo hits the streets first,

And the Ducks are in trouble going into the third period as well, not the night I was hoping for.

[Chris Freeland]

I can not believe you guys actually thought Charlie would have a major announcement tonight. We always know here days before a chat when a major announcement is coming, what made you guys think anything would be different tonight. Just like it has always ben a back and forth battle for new additions in SDTV in the past, it will be back and forth in HDTV additions in the future and just like in SDTV, when all the smoke is clear both services in the end will be about even with each other and better then all but a handful of cable systems around the country. It would be foolish for anyone who has already invested in E* HD hardware to switch to D* now just because they will have a HD package a month or two before E*. What are you guys going to do if you switch providers and then a month latter the other one comes out with a bigger and better package and then return to your original provider when they come out with the better package and hardware? Could get very costly ;) .

[Scott Greczkowski]

Last month they announce HDNet and HDNet Movies, now its a month later and they still don't have a launch date for eaither service.

How sorry is that?

[Horsnuts]

I think charlie meant Months, not Years. He seemed under the weather tonight. He looked sick! I still have faith. I think that the tech chat next month, and the next charlie chat will knock our socks off. Tech Chat will have features and information on the 921, and other new recievers, then Aug 11 chat will have pricing and release date for the 921, along with HD channel add ons and pricing, and possibly, new equipment upgrade programs. These are my predictions!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)

[Bobby94928]

Originally posted by Horsnuts
I think charlie meant Months, not Years. He seemed under the weather tonight. He looked sick!

&nbsp;

He used the word years more than once.&nbsp; He should be sick, he's being outbid.&nbsp; He better come up with something substantial or he's a goner.&nbsp; Comcast just started HD in my area, DirecTV has a pretty good looking package and Charlie is resting on his laurels or his vison or whatever.

&nbsp;

Bobby C

[Horsnuts]

I think that he's holding an ace up his sleeve, and he'll bust it out at the right time. Why would you sign agreements for new HD channels when you don't have a reciever on the consumer market to show these channels? The 6000 is out of production right? Granted- There are existing customers out there, but not enough to make any sense adding HD channels, especially when you can't mass market it!!! When they announce the release date of the 921, and other new HD sat boxs, then we'll see some channels and packages. Sit tight, and relax. It's coming!!!!!!

[bills976]

The main problem here is that Schwimmer is running the show in regards to working out contracts, etc. This guy is more of a tightwad than some elderly Republican Senators... just as a causal observer it seems to me that while the engineering department is doing their job of freeing up space for these HD channels on the respective Dish birds, programming is dragging their feet in the sand by begging the providers to lower their prices by three cents. If anyone is to blame here, it appears to me that it's Schwimmer.

[Richard King]

programming is dragging their feet in the sand by begging the providers to lower their prices by three cents.Good!! Keep it up!! That keeps my programming costs down. I like it. Way to go Schwimmer.

[abospaum]

I think the whole HDTV thing is turning into a chicken and the egg kind of situation.

Many consumers have not switched to HDTV because they don't want to spend thousands of $$'s to watch 5 or 6 channels.

The providers don't want to switch to HDTV because there aren't enough customers.

Equipment manufacturers aren't in any rush either because their customer base is limited. Evenutally all HDTV sets and receivers will be cheaper then they are now because there will not only be more competition but higher efficiences of scale (lower costs) as well as lower component costs as time goes on.

Why should Charlie rush? How many HD channels are available (outside of current offerings and locals)? By adding on only a couple of more channels how many more subscribers subs would they pick up. Not many. I think Charlie is waiting for a real bang.

[DaYooper]

Some of you guys make me laugh. If every one of you that had to have HD right now all switched to D*, it would even be a blip on E*'s quarterly totals. Charlie will offer an HD package the days it's a good business decision and not a day sooner.

[jeffwtux]

DaYooper: I agree with you in terms of offering the HD programming, but that's no excuse for this delay in getting the 921 on the market. They have to get that ready now. There's no excess cost in selling it. Yeah, it's a chicken an egg situation, but there are other features to the 921(most on the 721, granted) that will push many people to get the 921, and that will create demand for HD. BTW: How's the flooding up there?

[Richard King]

but that's no excuse for this delay in getting the 921 on the market.Yea, let's rush that thing to market before it's ready so we all have something new to complain about. :rolleyes:

[Scott Greczkowski]

I said it before and I will say it again.

The only programming Michael Schwimmer seems to know how to negotiate for lately is Cricket and Soccer. (And did you notice the 7 day Cricket Match costs more then the entire season of the NFL Sunday Ticket?)

Please Charlie, Michael and Rking stop thinking about my wallet, if I am willing to pay for it (as are others) then what's the problem? And just because I want HD does not mean you don't that fine and is the reason the HD stuff is on its own separate tear.

HD is catching on FAST, walk in to your local Best Buy or Circuit City and look around almost all the TV's are now HD ready (They had a nice 27" HDTV for $599 at Best Buy last week!) If you look at the industry reports HD ready sets are outselling Standard Definition Sets by 2 to 1, and from the people I spoke with at my local Best Buy its lately been a 5 to 1 ratio.

Am I upset about Charlie not yet offering ESPN-HD? No not at all I am not a sports nut and really never watch ESPN. What I am upset about is having a carrot dangled over my head a carrot of no real substance, yes Charlie announced 2 new HD Channels in Early May, but yet no launch date and that my big gripe, how come DirecTV can make a big package and announce a firm launch date, yet the company that announced 2 HD channels almost a month ago has no firm launch date?

Now on to the "SuperDish" I have no problem saying that when the SuperDish is available it will be a SuperDish, on the May 8th Retailer Charlie Chat Charlie was quoted as saying Superdish is not available till July, so bunch of details will come out around that timeHow is this July time frame possible?

At the team summit it was announced that the SuperDish would look at the 110, 119 and 105 orbital locations. As shown at http://www.dishretailer.com/ts2003/3/MVC-013S.JPG

Now the current satellite at 105 degrees (G Star 4) is operated at an inclined orbit meaning without special tracking equipment the SuperDish will not work. There is a new satellite scheduled for launch in late 2004 which will replace G Star 4 and will be in geostationary orbit.

Charlie also has another satellite which is supposed to be launched late this year, from what I understand its waiting to go yet may not make it to launch this year.

Here is Charlies own comments from his May 6th Earnings Conference CallThe-- to go to 106 markets, we have a -- SES has been kind enough to provide us an interim solution at the 105-degree slot late this summer that will give us capacity at the 105-degree slot. Prior to the launch of more sophisticated satellite next year, that goes --that replaces the interim capacity at 105. So we get some capacity to increase local markets this summer. We get additional capacity next fall. In 2004, and that's how we grow hopefully beyond 106 markets.

The 121-degree satellite, we still don't have a definitive launch date on that. We had hoped to launch that as early as this month but there have been -- in the manifest, there's somebody else who got moved into the manifest ahead of us, so we have to wait hopefully for the next launch, which could be as early as July or August, but could be shifted out.

Now on April 4th, Echostar released a press release saying... EchoStar's Dish Network to Launch up to 100 New International Satellite TV Channels This Summer

It's Summer where are they?

Also on May 1st Echostar Released another press release "Dish Network Satellite TV Names 42 New Local Channel Markets for 2003"

How is this possible?

Were these announcement made to pump up the Echostar Stock price? It almost seems like it.

As I also mentioned previously that after all these announcements were made Echostars Stock price rose dramatically, also interesting was after the stock went up many senior officials sold of pieces of their stock http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~33~1396916,00.html

If you will remember correctly on May 5th I posted my concerns on this entire deal http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14847 I said that it appeard that Dish seemed to be putting too many eggs into one basket.

Let's do some math, Dish announced up to 50 HD channels 100 New International Channels and 42 new local markets each with about 6 channels per market. If you do the math thats 402 channels, thats not even considering that every 2 HD channels use as much space as 10 standard defination channels. Even with 2 new satellites where do they have the room for all those channels?

Now please understand me, a lot of people think I am bashing Dish Network and honestly I am not, I am just asking questions that need to be answered. While I own no stock in Dish Network I do invest over $120 a month of my hard earned money on services from Dish Network. Many times you will notice I am a strong supporter of Dish Network.

I feel that I must ask these questions because no one else is. I don't know why no one else is but the facts speak for themselves. No one has given a good answer of how this all is going to work, again a carrot is being dangled over our heads, the question now is, is the carrot even real?

Now back to Dish and HDTV I said on May 9th http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15860 I do believe that Dish Network can easily beat DirecTV in HD offerings, notice I was the first one to say I believe that Charlie indeed holds an ace up his sleeve.

I can't wait for Charlie to show his hand, because at the moment nothing adds up, again the carrot is dangling up there but is that carrot real?

[dbronstein]

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski
Please Charlie, Michael and Rking stop thinking about my wallet, if I am willing to pay for it (as are others) then what's the problem?

The problem is that most of their customers probably aren't willing to pay for it. I'm pretty sure E* knows their customers a lot better than anyone here does. If they thought they could make money offering channels A, B, and C for $X, they would do it.

Dennis

[Scott Greczkowski]

Again the HD stuff is going on a seperate tier so the only ones paying for it would be the ones who want it.

Think of like AT 150HD. :)

[Nick]

More like AT50 we hope, but that would be better than AT 3 or 4. The current promo is like...

"America's Top 3 or 4 High Definition Channels" ...now available! An excellent reason to shell out upwards of three to five thousand of your hard-earned buckeroos! Get going and get yours TODAY!

Aaarrgh! :bang:

Do you know how hard it is to explain to your wife why you want to blow the family budget to smithereens spending that much dough in order to get 3 or 4 pretty channels?

Well, it's very hard. :( ...and I don't even have a wife anymore. :)

Just do it, Charlie. Show me the package!!!

[platinum]

Maybe Charlie doesn't have a ace up his sleeve....he maybe bluffing.

[Richard King]

Please Charlie, Michael and Rking stop thinking about my wallet, if I am willing to pay for it (as are others) then what's the problem?And of course, you are the only one who counts.

Again the HD stuff is going on a seperate tier so the only ones paying for it would be the ones who want it.I want the High Definition International Competition Basketweaving Channel (ICBC-HD) quickly so that I am able to watch the American team take on the Canadian team. I am perfectly willing to pay for it if they stick it on a seperate tier, so what's the problem? Oh, you say that taking 1/3 to 1/2 a transponder for this channel would be a waste of bandwidth? But, I am sure there are others like me who want this channel and are willing to pay for it so why isn't it there?

[Richard King]

Now the current satellite at 105 degrees (G Star 4) is operated at an inclined orbit meaning without special tracking equipment the SuperDish will not work.Inclined .73 degrees, meaning it meanders .73 degrees north and .73 degrees south of the "box". I suspect that a small dish has a wide enough pattern to pick up this much of an incline without tracking equipment. Rain fade, however will be a bigger problem than with a normal satellite as it wanders in and out of the box, but this is just an interim solution.

It's Summer where are they?I don't know about where you are, but where I am it is still Spring and summer doesn't start until later this month and continues until sometime in September. So, wait until the end of September to start complaining about this one.

Were these announcement made to pump up the Echostar Stock price?You insinuated during your on line chat last night that Charlie released all this info to bump the price so that he could sell at a higher price. This is a totally irresponsible accusation. I am sure that a person who is worth somewhere between 6-8 billion dollars would risk everything, including his reputation, to manipulate his stock just to sell a small portion at a dollar or two higher price.

Ergen and his wife, Cantey, recently pledged $12 million to the Children's Hospital network. They still own most of EchoStar's stock.

"Mr. Ergen continues to hold over 238 million shares of EchoStar stock," Lumpkin said. "The shares he sold amount to less than one-tenth of 1 percent of the shares still owned."Yea, he'd risk it all for a dollar or two per share.

If you will remember correctly on May 5th I posted my concerns on this entire deal http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14847 I said that it appeard that Dish seemed to be putting too many eggs into one basket.And during the merger negotiations you and others were complaining just as vocally that Charlie had no "Plan B". Welcome to "Plan B".

Even with 2 new satellites where do they have the room for all those channels?I am sure he has plans to get the room. He owes you no explanation as to how.

I am just asking questions that need to be answered. No, they don't. They will be answered when the proper time comes.

[dbronstein]

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski
Again the HD stuff is going on a seperate tier so the only ones paying for it would be the ones who want it.

Think of like AT 150HD. :)

And you know what every person who is ready for HD is willing to pay? Just because you're willing to pay $X for it doesn't mean others will. Again, if they thought they would make money at that price, I'm sure they'd do it in a second.

Dennis

[Eyedox]

Charlie is the king of bullsh*t to keep people wondering while he stalls for time. He doesn't have a CLUE on how he is going to incorporate all this new technology, HD content, locals, international, etc OR even how long it will take. So he feeds us all some hazy, fuzzy nonspecific crap to keep us hopeful. He shouldn't even be allowed to annouce crap until his KNOWS concrete dates, and if he misses them, there should be fines and rebates to the customers for LYING.

[BobMurdoch]

Originally posted by dbronstein


And you know what every person who is ready for HD is willing to pay? Just because you're willing to pay $X for it doesn't mean others will. Again, if they thought they would make money at that price, I'm sure they'd do it in a second.

Dennis

HOW many people are actually buying Cricket? I don't think it's the size of the market that counts, as long as he can charge enough to make money off of it (without the guaranteed amounts that the NFL and MLB people demand)

[raj2001]

Originally posted by Bichon
DirecTV may have announced their package, but they don't have 8PSK, nor do they have a plan like SuperDish. So they will be cramming two HDTV channels on each QPSK transponder, resulting in poorer picture quality than we get with Dish Network.


Well, it's not over until the fat lady sings. The thing is, D* never really announces their upcoming developments until they are sure to release really soon. Who knows, they may have something up their sleeve for better HDTV transmission that will take everyone by surprise.

[raj2001]

Originally posted by BobMurdoch


HOW many people are actually buying Cricket? I don't think it's the size of the market that counts, as long as he can charge enough to make money off of it (without the guaranteed amounts that the NFL and MLB people demand)

You'd be surprised. Just walk through an Indian or Caribbean neighborhood (Richmond Hill or Jackson Heights in Queens NY are good examples). Just as you see hockey or American football games games in American bars, you see cricket and real football (soccer) being shown.