Question about 101 transponder strengths

[gor88]

My mother has had D* for about one month now. I noticed yesterday that the signal strengths vary a lot on the 101 bird.

I have Dish Network and my signal strengths in good weather range from 110-125. On Dish Network, you must maintain a strength of 50 to keep a consistent signal. In the worst rains, I see up to a 60 point drop in the strength. Basically, as long as there isn't heavy hail between me and the birds, I keep the signal. This is what I know about signal strength.

Anyway, here are the signal strengths for transponders she uses that her receiver (with a Triple LNB dish) showed on the 101 bird Friday night (with some cloudiness, but rain had already passed far to the east of the birds):

T1: 94
T2: 96
T3: 91
T5: 91
T6: 95
T7: 96
T8: 95
T9: 88
T10: 96
T11: 95
T13: 95
T14: 90
T15: 92
T16: 95
T17: 82*
T19: 81*
T21: 93
T22: 71** :(
T23: 74** :(
T25: 93
T27: 66** :(
T29: 82*
T30: 80*
T31: 84

Is is unusual to see such low readings(the ones with double asterisks) when the other transponders seem to be delivering a good signal strength? I can't figure out why select transponders are getting such lousy signal strength.

The single asterisks indicate questionable strengths. I figure that readings from 85 and up would be considered optimal. Also, what is the minimum signal strength needed to maintain a consistent picture on D* receivers?

I also noticed weak signals on transponders her receivers use on the 119 bird, such as:

T22: 67
T29: 71
T30: 77
T32: 52

However, I am not very concerned about these as the channels are more or less public interest. Also, her locals will be added to the 101 bird.

I appreciate any insight you D* owners can give me on this subject.

[ChrisPC]

These don't sound too bad, most installers I know consider anything 70 or over to be good enough, and BTW, DirecTV receivers only go up to 100, unlike Dish Network.

The lower transponder readings can often have something to do with the cable run, but I doubt it in this case, since it is so new. You can check all the connectors, just in case.

Transponder strength is also different on every brand, the same dish connected to an RCA receiver will have slightly different readings than a Hughes, for example.

Then again, you can get a lot better signal in MS, I do. On a round dish/RCA receiver pointed at 101, I get all 32 transponders at about 90. Keep in mind 110 and 119 are always a bit weaker than 101 anyway.

If you really want to, you could adjust it, and you might get 10-15 more points on the weaker transponders, but it would take a little while. In my case it was worth it, it stays on a minute or two longer in strong storms, and doesn't go out in weak ones.

[american_2000]

Ive noticed on the triple lnb dishes, its harder to achieve a high signal like you would on the round dishes like I have. It sould be able to dip down to about 50 to keep a steady pic. Direct is also using some of the transponders to serve locals to some cities which will cause some to be lower than others. Your 119 signals are about normal but you probably could bump them up a tad by adjusting the dish.

[gor88]

I was afraid that 50 was the strength that was needed to keep the picture. Those three weak transponders will not maintain signal strength in a Mississippi thunderstorm. Most of the other transponders will.

Oh yeah, I tried reaiming the dish, but each slight move on either elevation or azimuth caused the strengths to drop. Therefore, the installer did aim it properly and I moved it back to his settings.

The 101 and 119 transponders listed are for nationwide channels in TC+. I eliminated the ones that carry local channels exculsively. I am not too worried about BYUTV, RFDTV, NASA-TV, Inspirational Life, and the Spanish speaking channels I don't think my mother would watch those. Nothing else will come off the 119 (or 110 dish, for that matter) either.

Ironically, I ordered her the system with the standard 18" dish. They sent the triple LNB anyway.

[ChrisPC]

The 32 transponders at 101 are actually 3 different satellites, and their signal has fluctuated a lot over the years. I remember when 16 of them were only half the power they all are now. The signals alternated between 90 and 75.

gor88, your mother's signal strengths sound pretty good for the so-called "professional" installers. You're lucky any transponder is over 80!

BTW, all the installers' trucks I've seen lately only have triple dishes in the back, so they probably didn't have a round dish to install.

I think D* is shipping only triple LNB systems in areas with locals, even if the locals are at 101. Since the Jackson locals were announced, all the new installations I see here are triple only.

They're making me jealous, so I think I'll get the free triple dish. I'll gain extra channels, even if my locals don't move, and who knows, I might even get HDTV one day!

[gor88]

Yeah, the installer simply pointed the dish with a meter and verified on 101 TP 1 with 100 signal strength. I haven't seen TP 1 hit 100 since.

I kind of wonder if just maybe that a small part of a tree branch BARELY enters into a corner of the 101 beam, affecting those three transponders the most. Could that be possible in this scenario? I'm just thinking out loud here.

Just out of curiosity, are 22, 23, and 27 on the same satellite?

I have to admit that I was worried about Mom's signal strengths, since MY OWN D* system with TiVo and Triple LNB dish is being shipped here from Massachusetts. I live near the Rez, so I will also be getting the Jackson, MS locals. Supposedly, D* prefers people to get that professional installation. I am going to do a signal strength sweep, find the weakest TP on 101, and make the installer fine tune the dish on that one. If I can get at least 85 or better on all 101 TP's, I will be happy. Hopefully, if and when the locals move to 119, I can still get an 85 on the transponder for locals.

[ChrisPC]

I dont know if 22, 23, and 27 are all on the same satellite, but your branch theory sounds like it's possible, and your idea to go by the weakest transponder is a good one too. I've done that before, but I usually check 3 or 4 different ones just to be sure.

You're right, D* has gotten really picky about "professional" installation lately. I guess since it's so easy to screw up a triple-LNB dish compared to a single one. BTW, have you tried adjusting the skew of her dish? That could make a difference.

The new full-power spotbeam satellite should be up at 119 before the Jackson locals move. Expect the signals to be a lot stronger than they are now, especially the spotbeams.

[bills976]

A couple things:

They're all on the 101 bird... each satellite location has 32 transponders, each numbered 1-32. The first post indicates 101.
Also, as a side note, Directv does not own all 32 transponders at 110 or 119... Dish owns the majority at those locations.

Also, those particular transponders on which you have a weak signal could be spotbeam satellites that contain local channels that you don't qualify for. I am unsure of whether or not 22, 23, or 27 are such transponders, though I am sure someone else can answer that question.

[Greg Bimson]

There isn't a "101 bird". There are three birds at 101, just as ChrisPC said.

DirecTV 4-S is the spotbeam satellite. It has some CONUS capabilities, but we don't know which CONUS transponders are being used for service. We do know that transponders 4, 10, 12, 18, 26, and 28 are the spot-beam transponders.

Also at 101 is DirecTV 1-R, and DirecTV 2. DirecTV 3 is also at 101, but it suffered some kind of anomoly, and is the backup satellite there.

DirecTV 1 is the satellite at 110, which broadcasts transponders 28, 30, and 32. A DirecTV Sat-C kit will make those look like transponders 8, 10, and 12 from the 119 slot.

DirecTV 6 is the bird being used at 119. It is broadcasting the 11 transponders that DirecTV owns at 119; those are transponders 22-32. DirecTV 5 is the backup bird. It is parked at 119, but this satellite is having problems as well.

[gor88]

ChrisPC,

Do you have the standard 18" round dish or a larger one? Just curious.

[ChrisPC]

I've always had an 18" dish, ever since I got D* in '96, but it won't be there much longer. I just ordered a Phase III dish and some compatible receivers for free with my locals. I'll keep you posted on what kind of signal it gets.

[beegfoot]

I installed my first Phillips receiver yesterday, and noticed my signal was several % less than what I'm used to with Hughes receivers.

In a Dish install a year or so ago, one receiver showed a 20% lesser signal strength than the other. The coax run was actually shorter than the stronger reading, and all new coax to both TV's.

I told the customer to call me if they experienced any problems, and have never heard from them.

I wouldn't get too upset with lower readings. Peak it for best signal then enjoy your TV!

[ChrisPC]

It's here! It only took 45 minutes to install a Phase III and 2 Hughes GAEBOA receivers. The signal is amazing, from 88-100 on all transponders, even 110 and 119, on the RCA and Hughes! :D

[gor88]

Wow, good signal strengths. I hope I get the same or better readings when my new system is installed Saturday.

I have come to the conclusion that there might be some slight signal blockage from branches that the installer did not account for on my mom's installation. I am not sure what else could cause the low readings on her system. The dish is supposed to be (and appears to be) pointing between two tall trees with a space more than adequate to allow the signal to come in. On my next visit, I might remove the dish from its mount and move it over to a better position for 101 and see if things improve.

[gor88]

ChrisPC,

I just had my Phase III dish with Hughes HDVR2 and Director Pack receivers installed Saturday. I experienced similar results with signal strengths.

Interesting thing, though. The HDVR2 has two tuners. Each tuner reads slightly different signal strengths for the same transponders. Usually, the difference is 5 points or less. On most, but not all transponders, Sat In 1 gives the higher reading. My understanding is that this is normal for the HDVR2. The highest reading for each transponder is 85 or better. I am going to check again once we get clear skies (probably not this week!).

My installer recommended to tell the installer company that installed Mom's dish to come back out and reaim/move her dish. He says those readings at the top makes him think that one of the three settings on the dish is off considerably. Hopefully, they will send a different guy out to her house.

[ChrisPC]

That's great to hear. Maybe the skew is wrong on her dish, since you said you checked the azimuth and elevation already.

[tkrandall]

My new triple dish system shows the 110 satellite as being at 110 on transponders 8, 10, and 12.

There isn't a "101 bird". There are three birds at 101, just as ChrisPC said.

DirecTV 4-S is the spotbeam satellite. It has some CONUS capabilities, but we don't know which CONUS transponders are being used for service. We do know that transponders 4, 10, 12, 18, 26, and 28 are the spot-beam transponders.

Also at 101 is DirecTV 1-R, and DirecTV 2. DirecTV 3 is also at 101, but it suffered some kind of anomoly, and is the backup satellite there.

DirecTV 1 is the satellite at 110, which broadcasts transponders 28, 30, and 32. A DirecTV Sat-C kit will make those look like transponders 8, 10, and 12 from the 119 slot.

DirecTV 6 is the bird being used at 119. It is broadcasting the 11 transponders that DirecTV owns at 119; those are transponders 22-32. DirecTV 5 is the backup bird. It is parked at 119, but this satellite is having problems as well.

[gor88]

I goofed in not posting the update to this posting.

My mother had the installer come back out and realign the dish. Her signal strengths are great. In fact, a few of the transponder strengths are better than mine.

[nuke]

I put phase III in myself and I'd never done one before. I'm nailing 100 signal on several transponders on 101 and good strengths across the board on the birds. It didn't take long to align or install. I got the mast plumb level, then I "preloaded it" a little so that it is actually plumb with the weight of the dish on it.

Took me a little while to zero in the elevation, since the pointer on the dish is a little off. Once I hit it though, it locked in solid with less than 5 minutes tweeking.

Some of the tp's are spot beams. Depends on where you live which ones come in strong or not.

But all my channels work fine.