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I posted here about my problems with HDCP a couple of weeks ago, and wanted to give an update. It now appears that all HD PPV and On Demand movies are content protected -- displaying the message that I need to use component cables instead of HDMI in order to buy/watch. I called the manufacturers of my A/V equipment again, and again was told that each piece was HDCP compliant/capable.
Regardless of what Sony says about my TV being HDCP compliant/capable, however, the folks at D* insist that it is not. To show you how much they know, they even claim that you need a "special" HDMI cable that is HDCP compliant/capable, despite the fact that the technology is inherent to the cable itself. They even go so far as to refer customers to www.hdmi.org for answers to all questions about HDMI/HDCP compatibility. Information on the site clearly states at HDCP is built into all HDMI cables.
The last "supervisor" I spoke to was so rude and arrogant, that I just hung up on him. When I asked if I could get some kind of credit for the three free PPV movies I got as a gift for being a "loyal customer," he told me "no" (quite emphatically), and added that HDCP issues were not D*'s problem. And when I asked what he would do to retain me as a customer, he didn't reply.
So, I am very seriously considering leaving D*, after almost 10 years. Verizon FIOS is not available in Colorado (currently, they do not block any content). And, as far as I know, Comcast doesn't block content, either. Dish blocks content, but they also have a Settings menu option that analyzes your equipment and tells you if you have any incompatibilities.
D*, on the other hand, doesn't seem to give a rat's behind about any of this. According to one rep, they have no plans in the works to do anything other than display the "component cables" error message. The real joke, however, is this: Although the whole point of HDCP is to prevent customers from recording PPV movies, right there on D*'s PPV menu is a "Record" option!!! And they have no plans to remove it!!
veryoldschool
05-24-09, 01:25 PM
Sorry to hear this. My Sony works fine as does my monitor for using DirecTV2PC.
I recorded some PPV as I too got three free movies. The record "feature" though is for the DVR, and not to be done by something else.
DogLover
05-24-09, 02:02 PM
I feel your pain. Several years ago I tried to connect an HDMI switch, so that both my HR20 DVR and my Sony upconverting DVD jukebox could share my TV's 1 DVI connection. All components said they fully supported HDMI. DVR worked great, DVD would not recognize HDCP. I tried both a Sony A/V receiver that was supposed to provide HDMI switching capability, as well as a dedicated HDMI switch. The DVD just wouldn't work.
When I researched the issue on various online forums, I basically determined that it was an absolute crapshoot whether components would work with any sort of compenent in between the video source and the TV.
I worked with the Sony A/V receiver for a very long time, thinking that it should have been most compatible with the Sony DVD jukebox. No luck. Was on the phone with Sony support for hours, exchanged the A/V receiver for another one, and finally had to return it. Settled on using component on the DVR, so that the HDMI could be direct connected on the DVD player. I now have a newer/upconverting Sony A/V receiver, and it works fine with both components.
I don't really have any answers for you, but I do have sympathy. It just seems that HDCP is not a very standard standard.
CCarncross
05-24-09, 02:22 PM
I thought the outcome of your other thread was it was an issue with your Pioneer receiver? Did you ever try bypassing the receiver and going straight to the tv? I did some research and it appears that Pioneer doesnt support 1080p, just 1080i...
lee78221
05-24-09, 08:31 PM
The real joke, however, is this: Although the whole point of HDCP is to prevent customers from recording PPV movies, right there on D*'s PPV menu is a "Record" option!!! And they have no plans to remove it!!:lol: No, the point of HDCP is to prevent Copying not to prevent Recording.
texasbrit
05-24-09, 10:45 PM
If FIOS and the cable company don't block content, they will soon, because the move studios are insisting on it. And as one of the other posts pointed out, DirecTV is not preventing you from recording the movie, just playing it on a non-HDCP compliant TV.
SFNSXguy
05-25-09, 08:17 AM
My Sony projector (VPL-HS51) will not pass HDCP signals - not from my HR20-700, or from any HDCP DVD player either. I'm forced to use component cables to view HDCP signals.
P Smith
05-25-09, 10:07 AM
There are 'smart' HDMI switches what will make happy you, your DVR and movie studios. :)
SFNSXguy
05-25-09, 11:04 AM
There are 'smart' HDMI switches what will make happy you, your DVR and movie studios. :)
??? Tell us more.
LarryFlowers
05-25-09, 12:19 PM
Monoprice.com $30 4 way hdmi switch fully complies with HDCP. I have no problems with it.
As a note: I have a friend who has been in the Home Theater business for 25 years. He has told me that 98% of all his installer HDCP issues are caused by the Audio receiver used as an HDMI Switch.
He stated: in spite of the claims made by the audio manufacturers, they seem to be having problems complying with the necessary standards. Even the most expensive pieces have issues.
He frequently uses separate HDMI switches to deal with the issue whenever it arises and delivers the audio to the receiver via other methods.
Larry
SFNSXguy
05-25-09, 12:55 PM
No. It's not the switcher. The Sony projector will not play an HDCP image. I thought the poster had a fix. This won't do it.
P Smith
05-26-09, 01:12 AM
If you will insert the HDMI 'smart' switch in your chain between the projector and DVR , then the switch will be responsible for HDCP handshake, not your projector !
And no such "play an HDCP image" process exist, Larry.
DogLover
05-26-09, 09:24 AM
If you will insert the HDMI 'smart' switch in your chain between the projector and DVR , then the switch will be responsible for HDCP handshake, not your projector !
And no such "play an HDCP image" process exist, Larry.
But if the switch is properly supporting HDCP, it would pass on the fact that the projector is not supporting HDCP, and the projector would still not be able to play a protected show through HDMI.
P Smith
05-26-09, 09:28 AM
Some switches would nor pass HDCP, but will will claim itself as end [sink] device.
CCarncross
05-26-09, 10:05 AM
Some switches would nor pass HDCP, but will will claim itself as end [sink] device.
That device would technically be illegal, as it does not meet the proper criteria for HDCP.
Sorry to hear about the problems you are having with HDMI. Unfortunately this type of problem is not that unusual and not limited to DirecTV or Sony or any other particular device. Compatibility was spotty. Especially early on and when it came to repeaters which is what any sort of hdmi switch is.
I posted here about my problems with HDCP a couple of weeks ago, and wanted to give an update. It now appears that all HD PPV and On Demand movies are content protected -- displaying the message that I need to use component cables instead of HDMI in order to buy/watch. I called the manufacturers of my A/V equipment again, and again was told that each piece was HDCP compliant/capable.
I got the same message today while trying to watch an on-demand movie I'd recorded to the DVR over the weekend.
And...actually, what I was trying to do was burn it to a DVD from my DVR. I send the signal to the DVD recorder from the DVR via s-video and stereo audio.....the DVD recorder upconverts to 1080P over HDMI.
A quick check showed that I could indeed watch the movie via HDMI from the DVR to the TV, and it recorded just fine (and would play back) on the DVD recorder.
What I couldn't do is send the movie via s-video and then upconvert it over HDMI both at once :) So....HDCP makes it look like it's doing something (preventing you from copying), but really isn't (shrug).
I thought the outcome of your other thread was it was an issue with your Pioneer receiver? Did you ever try bypassing the receiver and going straight to the tv? I did some research and it appears that Pioneer doesnt support 1080p, just 1080i...
The problem has nothing to do with 1080p vs. 1080i. According to D*, not all movies are being broadcast in 1080p -- unless you have information to the contrary. My Pioneer A/V receiver does not support 1080p (only 1080i), but is HDCP compatible/capable. So, if D* lied to me and is, in fact, now broadcasting all PPV movies in 1080p, then my Pioneer would seem to be the culprit. (Yes, I tried bypassing the receiver and PPV worked fine.) But, D* says that not all PPV is in 1080p, so at this point, I don't really know which end is up!
And, I'm not even sure what the error message being displayed means: That you can't use HDMI (which really doesn't seem to be the case since I don't see any other folks complaining about this issue)? Or that equipment is not HDCP capable?
I also don't understand why there aren't a lot more people posting about HDCP problems. Am I the only one with this problem? Surely there must be more people who connect to an A/V receiver via HDMI and then via HDMI to the satellite box. And I couldn't possibly be the only person with a 1080i A/V receiver!
Monoprice.com $30 4 way hdmi switch fully complies with HDCP. I have no problems with it.
As a note: I have a friend who has been in the Home Theater business for 25 years. He has told me that 98% of all his installer HDCP issues are caused by the Audio receiver used as an HDMI Switch.
He stated: in spite of the claims made by the audio manufacturers, they seem to be having problems complying with the necessary standards. Even the most expensive pieces have issues.
He frequently uses separate HDMI switches to deal with the issue whenever it arises and delivers the audio to the receiver via other methods.
Larry
Pioneer insists that my receiver is HDCP compatible. Please elaborate on these HDMI switches. Do you have a part ID from monoprice.com? (Not sure which one you're referring to.) Where do I put them in my equipment chain and what A/V receiver settings would I need to change?
If FIOS and the cable company don't block content, they will soon, because the move studios are insisting on it. And as one of the other posts pointed out, DirecTV is not preventing you from recording the movie, just playing it on a non-HDCP compliant TV.
My Sony TV is HDCP compliant.
LarryFlowers
05-27-09, 05:27 PM
If you bypassed your Pioneer AND your TV then worked fine for PPV, then it is definitely the fault of the Pioneer unit. As my friend at the Home Theater company put it... the audio guys just don't seem to get it right no matter how expensive. They all claim to be HDCP compliant... but they just don't seem to work.
A monoprice.com product like this one http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=4066&seq=1&format=2
would allow you to use HDMI cables to connect your equipment to the switch and then one HDMI cable to the TV, The switch is remote controlled and you would have to match the switch to the number of pieces of equipment you have.
How you would handle the audio would depend on your TV but obviously you can use the audio outputs from the various pieces of hardware and go directly to the Pioneer to handle the sound.
All PPV is NOT 1080P... not even close, so that is not the issue. Most of PPV is still 1080i.
A monoprice.com product like this one http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=4066&seq=1&format=2
would allow you to use HDMI cables to connect your equipment to the switch and then one HDMI cable to the TV, The switch is remote controlled and you would have to match the switch to the number of pieces of equipment you have.
So, how would the switch help if, in fact, the Pioneer was not HDCP compliant? Currently, my system is configured like this:
HDMI from TV to Pioneer --> HDMI from Pioneer to HD-DVR --> Optical audio from Pioneer to HD-DVR --> Components and optical audio from Pioneer to DVD
:lol: No, the point of HDCP is to prevent Copying not to prevent Recording.
If you record a HDMI source you are actualy saving a copy of the digital stream.
HDCP is there to also prevent recording.
Directv's DVR'S don't record the channel they capture and save the digital data stream to the hard drive.
CCarncross
05-27-09, 06:39 PM
I'm sure not the answer you want to hear but if you bypassed the Pioneer and the PPV work fine then it is obvious the problem is your Pioneer. I use a Denon A/V receiver with HDMI inputs/output to my Sony tv and it works perfect every time...Until you have more HDMI devices why not just run HDMI to the tv and use optical to the Pioneer, the sound will be absolutely identical and the picture could potentially be better by bypassing the intermediate connnection and its internal circuitry.
LarryFlowers
05-27-09, 06:39 PM
Running the HDMI directly to the TV or to the switch if you need it would keep the Pioneer from interfering with the HDCP. You can still run the optical audio from the HD DVR to the Pioneer.
So, how would the switch help if, in fact, the Pioneer was not HDCP compliant? Currently, my system is configured like this:
HDMI from TV to Pioneer --> HDMI from Pioneer to HD-DVR --> Optical audio from Pioneer to HD-DVR --> Components and optical audio from Pioneer to DVD
So, how would the switch help if, in fact, the Pioneer was not HDCP compliant? Currently, my system is configured like this:
HDMI from TV to Pioneer --> HDMI from Pioneer to HD-DVR --> Optical audio from Pioneer to HD-DVR --> Components and optical audio from Pioneer to DVD
Larry is basically saying to use the switch he is linking instead of the Pioneer. Just take the pioneer out of the loop as a HDMI switch.
So, for you DVR , you will have optical running to the Pioneer, just like now and the HDMI running to the switch. Then the switch runs to the TV instead of from teh Pio.
Most of these switches have the ability to auto switch or learn a command from your remote. So, you can just teach it the current Pioneer remote code that you use right now to select the DVR input and it will work just like it does now remote-wise.
spartanstew
05-28-09, 07:52 AM
So, how would the switch help if, in fact, the Pioneer was not HDCP compliant? Currently, my system is configured like this:
HDMI from TV to Pioneer --> HDMI from Pioneer to HD-DVR --> Optical audio from Pioneer to HD-DVR --> Components and optical audio from Pioneer to DVD
You don't even need the switch.
Why are you running both HDMI and optical from your DVR to the Pioneer?
Here's how you should set things up:
HD-DVR --- HDMI ---TV
HD-DVR --- optical -- Pioneer
Now, does your DVD player have HDMI out and does your TV have another HDMI in. If so, configure the DVD player like that also
DVD --- HDMI --- TV
DVD --- optical -- Pioneer.
You won't need to buy any more cables (or equipment) and you'll have one less cable in the chain (no need for the component cable). If your DVD player doesn't have HDMI out, but your TV has component in, then just replace the HDMI in the DVD -- TV connection with the component.
Unless your receiver is exceptionally good at upconverting, the only reason to use HDMI to it is to take advantage of lossless audio that's only found on Blu Ray (I'm assuming when you wrote DVD, you didn't mean Blu Ray).
I'm sure not the answer you want to hear but if you bypassed the Pioneer and the PPV work fine then it is obvious the problem is your Pioneer. I use a Denon A/V receiver with HDMI inputs/output to my Sony tv and it works perfect every time...Until you have more HDMI devices why not just run HDMI to the tv and use optical to the Pioneer, the sound will be absolutely identical and the picture could potentially be better by bypassing the intermediate connnection and its internal circuitry.
So, then, would the configuration be this?:
HDMI from TV to HD-DVR --> HDMI from HD-DVR to Pioneer --> optical audio from Pioneer to HD-DVR (with the other equioment the same)
Thanks.
LarryFlowers
05-28-09, 12:51 PM
NO...
No HDMI Cables go to your Pioneer Audio Receiver
Only Audi Cables go to your Pioneer Audio Receiver
HDMI Cables ONLY go directly to the TV
Larry
So, then, would the configuration be this?:
HDMI from TV to HD-DVR --> HDMI from HD-DVR to Pioneer --> optical audio from Pioneer to HD-DVR (with the other equioment the same)
Thanks.
spartanstew
05-28-09, 02:41 PM
So, then, would the configuration be this?:
HDMI from TV to HD-DVR --> HDMI from HD-DVR to Pioneer --> optical audio from Pioneer to HD-DVR (with the other equioment the same)
Thanks.
Umm, I posted the connections directly above your post.
CCarncross
05-28-09, 06:19 PM
So, then, would the configuration be this?:
HDMI from TV to HD-DVR --> HDMI from HD-DVR to Pioneer --> optical audio from Pioneer to HD-DVR (with the other equioment the same)
Thanks.
They got you covered, HDMI from your DVR directly to tv. Optical from DVR to A/V receiver. The HD DVR only has one HDMI output, your scenario above would require your DVR to have 2 HDMI outputs.
You don't even need the switch.
Why are you running both HDMI and optical from your DVR to the Pioneer?
Here's how you should set things up:
HD-DVR --- HDMI ---TV
HD-DVR --- optical -- Pioneer
Now, does your DVD player have HDMI out and does your TV have another HDMI in. If so, configure the DVD player like that also
DVD --- HDMI --- TV
DVD --- optical -- Pioneer.
Unless his Pioneer has some issues switching, why use the opticals at all??
Why wouldn't he run
1. One HDMI cable from the HDMI output of the HD-DVR to the HDMI input of the Pioneer unit.
2. One HDMI cable from the HDMI output of the DVD player (if it's got one, probably does if it upconverts to 1080p) to the HDMI input of the Pioneer unit.
And then
3. One HDMI cable from the HDMI output of the Pioneer to the input of TV.
The Pioneer unit would handle all the switching and deal with the audio without the use of optical cables at all.....(at least my Sony does :))
LarryFlowers
05-29-09, 10:32 AM
Start at post #1 and read the thread... the problem is the Pioneer Audio Receiver is interfering with HDCP... the idea is to cut the Pioneer out of the loop!
Larry
Unless his Pioneer has some issues switching, why use the opticals at all??
Why wouldn't he run
1. One HDMI cable from the HDMI output of the HD-DVR to the HDMI input of the Pioneer unit.
2. One HDMI cable from the HDMI output of the DVD player (if it's got one, probably does if it upconverts to 1080p) to the HDMI input of the Pioneer unit.
And then
3. One HDMI cable from the HDMI output of the Pioneer to the input of TV.
The Pioneer unit would handle all the switching and deal with the audio without the use of optical cables at all.....(at least my Sony does :))
CCarncross
05-29-09, 10:37 AM
Unless his Pioneer has some issues switching, why use the opticals at all??
That's the whole gist of this thread, his Pioneer appears to have problems with correctly handling HDCP from the HD DVR.
Start at post #1 and read the thread... the problem is the Pioneer Audio Receiver is interfering with HDCP... the idea is to cut the Pioneer out of the loop!
Larry
I've been reading this thread since it started........and although an assumption has been made that his Pioneer receiver is the problem, OEM has claimed it shouldn't be (and they're always right, right?? :lol:).
In post #17, I showed that I was getting the same "problem" message with my system and why. Had nada to do with my Sony receiver's ability to switch or handle HDCP. Turn of a knob on my system and the "problem" message went away. Taking my receiver out of the system would have cleared the problem up too, but wouldn't have been the solution.......
The problem exists apparently for him though, and I raised an eyebrow when I saw him explain how he had his system configured/wired. Just seemed rather convoluted to me so I suggested a simpler configuration as a start to figuring this out.
I've been reading this thread since it started........and although an assumption has been made that his Pioneer receiver is the problem, OEM has claimed it shouldn't be (and they're always right, right?? :lol:).
In post #17, I showed that I was getting the same "problem" message with my system and why. Had nada to do with my Sony receiver's ability to switch or handle HDCP. Turn of a knob on my system and the "problem" message went away. Taking my receiver out of the system would have cleared the problem up too, but wouldn't have been the solution.......
The problem exists apparently for him though, and I raised an eyebrow when I saw him explain how he had his system configured/wired. Just seemed rather convoluted to me so I suggested a simpler configuration as a start to figuring this out.
What was your "turn of a knob"???
What was your "turn of a knob"???
When I turned the "input selector" knob from DVD back to Sat/TV.....
That's why I always check pretty carefully "where I am", and how I've got things hooked up BEFORE I start pulling equipment out of the system, etc.
As I said in post #17......
When I got the message you did.......my HD-DVR was sending signal over s-video to my DVD recorder, then the DVD recorder was upconverting the signal back to 1080P over the HDMI cable running from it to my surround receiver.
The surround receiver has an HDMI cable running from it to the TV.
When I switched the knob back to SAT/TV....the signal went from the HD-DVR (via HDMI) to my receiver and then to the TV (via HDMI)....everything worked fine.
AND......
I was still able to record the program from my HD-DVR to the DVD recorder (over the s-video) just fine.
I'm not saying that your Pioneer receiver isn't/can't be the problem....I'd just suggest checking lots of other things first.
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