Looks like 4 Tps effectively empty at 110w

[JohnH]

Transponders 5, 7, 24 and 25 are not being used currently at 110w. Just happened today.

[DarrellP]

HD! HD! HD! HD! HD! HD!

That's room for 8, make that 10 HD channels:

1) ESPNHD
2) Discovery HD
3) HDNET
4) HDNET Movies
5) Bravo
6) CinemaxHD
7) Starz Sharper Movies HD
8) Starz HD
9) LifeHD
10) HD Event Channel? PPV?

We can only hope (& pray).

[mancow]

Maybe they will use this for the Richmond/Petersburg Va. locals.

[edeclark]

Or quite possibly for the other 4 or 5 'planned' locals scheduled by the end of June (or July)???

[Jacob S]

I would have to say that these are for the local markets for quarters 3 (and maybe 4 as well). Are they compressing channels more than they were?

Also how many transponders would it take to get all of these additional markets added? I figure they may be able to get 2 markets on a transponder. Looks like enough room for 6-8 cities. I also wonder if they are going to free up more transponders.

Now these numbers are national coverage but if these are going to be put on spotbeams then there would be room for even more than this. How much more capacity is there if they are put on spotbeams and are these actually spotbeam transponders? If not perhaps they can shift channels around to make room, dont know, or perhaps they have already done this.

I was told a while back that my DMA market (Charleston/Huntington, WV) was out of room on the spotbeam satellite and I have heard on here that SuperDish may not come out for a bit longer and that 121 may not be launched this year yet my DMA is on the list to be added on Dish Network. I guess there is DirecTv if Dish Network does not follow through. Their PVR product is probably more reliable anyways.

[JohnH]

More moves overnight. Tp 20 is now empty.
That makes 5.

[johnsmith22]

It would be great if Dish could get the EEPG onto another transponder, transponder 29 is very low in PR and that causes trouble sometimes downloading the guide, also there are Latino channels on transponder 13 which is also marginal in PR. This would be an ideal time to sort out those problems.

[Jacob S]

Perhaps if they moved the program guide information to 119 then that would free up more space on 110 as well although it probably would not free up more spotbeam space.

I guess there may be additional transponders that they are going to free up to make room for all these locals they need to add. They better get on the ball because someone that got DirecTv told me they were getting their locals in 2 months in our market.

[zozo]

Or there was a problem with the satellite.

[edeclark]

Lets hope not zozo....

So what exactly are they doing here?? Anybody have new information? I'm wondering if they are trying to keep up with DTV and their HD packages on 7/1 or if they are opening up space for 2Q & 3Q locals additions. They'd better get a move on if they plan on adding 4 or 5 more cities in June. The month is half over.

[Jacob S]

I guess they are compressing more and more to fit a lot more channels until they get 121 then 105 up. I can look at the still figures on the Weather Channel on my big screen and still tell a change in some small pixels but I guess that is to be expected with projection tv's.

[Rick_EE]

Another AT150 preview?

[Mike Richardson]

Originally posted by Rick Densing
Another AT150 preview?
I didn't subscribe when they had the original AT150 preview but back then I heard that they just stuffed all the AT150 channels onto their primary satellite (119) and compression was very tight and quality was very bad. This was because basically not many people had a DISH 500 yet and they wanted to get the word out.

But with the recent AT150 preview they just figured that enough people had DISH 500 anyway and they didn't want to have to compress the channels so badly like last time, so they just basically set a range of channels to mirror the AT150 channels. This used no bandwidth. (except for making the guide bigger a little)

Because of the mass clearing of transponders, and the said fact that you cannot mix SD and HD on the same transponder (due to the compression), it seems like these transponders are gonna be used for HD. Remote possibility that some local markets might go there too. Putting local markets on CONUS slots seems so foolish though :shrug:

[edeclark]

Sometimes they don't have a choice though for now. Many spotbeams are full and some areas of the country aren't covered at all.

[Jacob S]

Why would they clear out transponders on 110 for a preview of top150 when those with a dish300 can only see 119? Why not do that on 119 instead like they did before if they were going to have a free preview, if this is in fact the reason why they are clearing the transponders out? Its probably not why but if it was the reason then I guess they would be showing it only to those with a dish500.

[Darkman]

JohnH - according to Lyngsat - channels from tp 12 were moved to tp 11 (at 110)...

Is tp 12 now empty too? ( if so - more likely getting ready to go Spots, eh? :) )

[Cyclone]

*HDNet* fingers crossed.

[Chris Freeland]

E* would not need to clear TP's for another AT150 Free Preview because like what Mike Richardson was saying all they would do is remap the channels for the Free Preview to mirror normal AT150. I am convinced E* is preparing the way for HD package. I suspect these HD channels on 110 will only be temporary until a usable satellite is ready at 105, then the HD channels will be switched to 105. I also suspect that the SuperDish will come with all new HD systems even before the move to 105 for a seamless move.

[JohnH]

Originally posted by Darkman
JohnH - according to Lyngsat - channels from tp 12 were moved to tp 11 (at 110)...

Is tp 12 now empty too? ( if so - more likely getting ready to go Spots, eh? :) )

Knoxville remains on Tp 12.

Some channels were moved off Tp 17 as well. Roanoke/Lynchburg remains there.

Probably the only thing "moving" to spots will be Dallas/Ft. Worth.

There is currently 5 full Tps and 2 half Tps empty at 110w.

[Rick_EE]

They are adding 20 more shopping channels.:p

[Jacob S]

I dont think they would add the HD channels before the local cities if in fact they do need this space for more locals. I just hope 121 goes up without any delays from when it was originally planned along with SuperDish. Perhaps the tech chat next month will shed some light on what is going on. I bet we will see additional transponders cleared out if they have to use these to provide locals if 121 will not be going up for a while. Perhaps they may add a few HD channels temporarily to 110 depending on how much space they need for the additional cities.

[JohnH]

As to the comment above about not mixing SD and HD channels on the same transponder. They have been doing such mixes for over a year on 61.5 and 148.

They would not likely mix them on an 8PSK transponder since only Model 6000 receivers get those.

[Mike Richardson]

Originally posted by JohnH
As to the comment above about not mixing SD and HD channels on the same transponder. They have been doing such mixes for over a year on 61.5 and 148.

They would not likely mix them on an 8PSK transponder since only Model 6000 receivers get those.
It's pretty sure (IMO) that if DISH Network uses some of their main bandwidth for HD then it will be in 8PSK so that they can get better use of space. Some people say they could stuff 3 HD channels on a transponder with some advanced compression techniques. But other people say SD channels cannot reside on the same transponder as well.

[Jacob S]

I dont see why they could not stuff SD channels on the same transponder as HD channels. If they had enough room for 2 HD channels and still have space left over but not quite enough room for 3 HD channels then it would be nice to use the leftover space for SD channels.

[Mike123abc]

8PSK can only be decoded by the 6000 with the 8PSK module in it. So, if a transponder is transmitting 8PSK, only the 6000 can read it. Now they could still mix STD and HDTV, but only the 6000 could see them in the 8PSK stream.

The old HDTV channels are in QPSK which all recievers can decode, while they do not have the memory/processing power to put together the HDTV pic, they can do the standard channels on the same transponder.

[Jacob S]

So basically a whole transponder has to be reserved due to the fact that there is a different compression scheme used for those particular channels because the whole transponder is compressed? Why does the whole transponder have to be using that compression scheme instead of part of that transponder?

[TNGTony]

A transponder is actually just ONE channel. That one channel can have an MPEG signal that can be composed of so many programs or an 8PSK signal that can be composed of so many programs.

You cannot place both encoding schemes on one transponder since it is really only ONE channel.

See ya
Tony

[P Smith]

Tony,

One transponder is a mux of packets ( 188 bytes ), so it doesn't matter how many and what type of programming there - different type of modulation just provide a dencity for squize more packets .
Factually, 8PSK at 61.5 and 148 have one DiscoveryHD in HD mode and 2 hidden channels for each transponder in SD mode ( named PSK1/PSK2/PSK3/PSK4 ). That info was recently posted at LyngSat site but removed now.

[TNGTony]

From what I understood, the PSK channels were also 8PSK and only visible with the proper equipment. If I am mistaken, I apologize for spreading misinfomation. I was under the implession that the Mux had to be either one compression scheme or the other otherwise it would just be garbage to a system that doesn't recognize both.

See ya
Tony

[ChrisPC]

IIRC, 8PSK uses MPEG-2 just like the regular QPSK transponders. The compression system is the same, but the actual RF signal and bitrate is different.

[JohnH]

Originally posted by P Smith
Tony,

One transponder is a mux of packets ( 188 bytes ), so it doesn't matter how many and what type of programming there - different type of modulation just provide a dencity for squize more packets .
Factually, 8PSK at 61.5 and 148 have one DiscoveryHD in HD mode and 2 hidden channels for each transponder in SD mode ( named PSK1/PSK2/PSK3/PSK4 ). That info was recently posted at LyngSat site but removed now.

Not entirely correct.

There are three 8PSK transponders in use on the system now as follows

At 61.5 Tp 4 there are 2 HD channels(Discovery HD Theater and HD Events)

At 148 Tp 5 there are 3 channels(HD Events, PSK1 and PSK2). All 3 of these could be HD, but it is likely one or more are compressed. It is not normal to compress HD as some of the HD is lost in such schemes and one is stretching the name HD then.

At 148 Tp 10 there is one HD channel(Discovery HD Theater).

PSK3 and PSK4 no longer exist on the system.

[nostar]

IIRC, 8PSK uses MPEG-2 just like the regular QPSK transponders. The compression system is the same, but the actual RF signal and bitrate is different.

You people live in a dream world.

I've been hanging in with Dish Network for about a year now, hoping that they really were the HD pioneers that they claim to be. I Spent around $1000.00 on HD equipment, and the only thing I hear about HD from *e* is the merger will give us more capacity for HD, and in the summer we are going to add HDnet and HDnet movies, and we are in negotiations with ESPN.

In reality the only HD channels that they have is HBO, ShowTime (mostly upconverted stuff), Discovery HD (same shows over and over again), CBS, which noone can get, the demo channel (everyone loves this) and PayPerView which is over priced.

It looks like Direct Tv is really doing something about HD.

[Mike123abc]

Actually 17 of the largest markets can get the CBS-HD. They only channel DirecTV has announce that Dish has not is ESPN-HD (which only has a couple hours of HD on it).

Dish has announce a new satellite going up next year for HDTV... that could give them capacity for 64 HDTV channels. DirecTV has not announce how they are going to add capacity for more HDTV, I suspect we will hear something soon.

[Jacob S]

I thought Murdoch was against launching a lot of HDTV channels?

[Cyclone]

I think that is just for the Fox Broadcast network and all the stations that would require him to buy new HDTV equipment.

[JStanton]

Actually 17 of the largest markets can get the CBS-HD.

Yeah, right. I live 2 miles outside Boston (one of the supposed markets that can get it.) I called 10 different CSR's trying to get it activated, to no avail. They insisted I needed a waiver, which was of course denied.

They only channel DirecTV has announce that Dish has not is ESPN-HD (which only has a couple hours of HD on it).

Except that DirecTV has a date for launch of the HD package, a price, and is taking orders. Dish has a vague 'this summer' press release that is 2 months old and silence since then.

Not a happy E* customer now. Will be livid if my 6000 turns out to be a doorstop in light of the superdish.

- Jim

[Cyclone]

At least your 6000 won't be a door stop until late next year. So smile. :D

[nostar]

Actually 17 of the largest markets can get the CBS-HD. They only channel DirecTV has announce that Dish has not is ESPN-HD (which only has a couple hours of HD on it).

Dish has announce a new satellite going up next year for HDTV... that could give them capacity for 64 HDTV channels. DirecTV has not announce how they are going to add capacity for more HDTV, I suspect we will hear something soon.

Do you still believe this Mike?

[Mike123abc]

Do you still believe this Mike?

Yes, I still have not heard of an announcement out of DirecTV on where they are going to get the extra satellite capacity to carry more than a handfull of HDTV channels.

SES Americom is going to supply Dish with the satellite capacity for 105. They are supposed to move a satellite into position for temporary use soon until SES launches a new satellite for 105 next year. This is not some mythical announcement out of Dish for a satellite that might be built in the future, it is a contracted deal with SES (http://www.ses-americom.com/satellites/fleet.html).

[Mike123abc]

If you want to read the press release about AMC-2 moving to 105 see http://www.ses-americom.com/media/2003/07_02_03.html

AMC-9 was just launched on 6/6/03 and is replacing AMC-2 at 85. Once the transfer of service from AMC-2 to AMC-9, AMC-2 will go to 105.

Kevin Smyth, AMERICOM’s Senior Vice President of Residential Satellite Services, said, “With AMC-2’s move to 105 degrees and its utilization by EchoStar, our vision of AMERICOM2HomeSM as a U.S. DTH platform begins to be realized.”

[Jacob S]

This must explain where the locals will be coming from then and that the SuperDish would be released soon to bring those locals in for 3rd quarter. I dont think there is enough free space at 110 to deliver all of those locals that they announced for 3rd quarter this year.

[Mike123abc]

This must explain where the locals will be coming from then and that the SuperDish would be released soon to bring those locals in for 3rd quarter. I dont think there is enough free space at 110 to deliver all of those locals that they announced for 3rd quarter this year.


The locals are supposed to come from 121. Echostar-9 is waiting for launch and will go to 121 (http://www.spaceflightnow.com/tracking/index.html). Echostar-9 at 121 is where Dish has indicated they will serve more locals.

E-9 has 32 CONUS beams. This will give Dishnetwork the equivalent of 32 more spot beams (they have 50 now) or about 64% more capacity for locals. By contrast DirecTV will have 42 spots on D-4s (in orbit now) and 42 on D-7s or 84 total spots. Dish and DirecTV will have very close to the same capacity for local markets (DirecTV will have 4 more spots but Dish will have a bit more versatility with with CONUS).

[jzoomer]

You should never buy a consumer product on what it will be. Imagine going to a new car dealer and buying a car based on what it could do in a few years.

DISH is a product that includes programming and equipment that deliveries programming. I will not buy expensive HD equipment in the hope that it will work a certain way in the future or might deliver programming that I would want in the future. This is a con man’s game.

This winter I might upgrade my equipment with an HD DVR device that may cost $1000. I will look at what programming is currently delivered and what the equipment does. If DISH has what I want, I will go with DISH. If Directv has what I want, I will go that direction.

Anyone that hangs unto talk of a “SuperDISH”, a future satellite, or some other rabbit that Charlie might pull out of his hat; is a fool.

[Chris Freeland]

The locals are supposed to come from 121. Echostar-9 is waiting for launch and will go to 121 (http://www.spaceflightnow.com/tracking/index.html). Echostar-9 at 121 is where Dish has indicated they will serve more locals.

E-9 has 32 CONUS beams. This will give Dishnetwork the equivalent of 32 more spot beams (they have 50 now) or about 64% more capacity for locals. By contrast DirecTV will have 42 spots on D-4s (in orbit now) and 42 on D-7s or 84 total spots. Dish and DirecTV will have very close to the same capacity for local markets (DirecTV will have 4 more spots but Dish will have a bit more versatility with with CONUS).

I do not agree, if I am not mistaken I think E* may have plans for locals and additional International channels on 121, HDTV and additional locals on 105, or other words locals on both 105 and 121. E9 might not be up in time for 3rd and 4th Q locals of this year, however AMC2 will be, I suspect locals that will end up at 121 will be ones for 04 launch that have not ben announced yet.

[Mike123abc]

E9 will give them a lot of capacity, they may put internationals on it and locals. It is hard to say how they are planning the capacity if they even know for sure. It is also unclear if superdish will by default look at all 4 locations. There are lots of unanswered questions about how Dish will use their fleet over the next few months.

Echostar really needs to get E9 up.

[Chris Freeland]

E9 will give them a lot of capacity, they may put internationals on it and locals. It is hard to say how they are planning the capacity if they even know for sure. It is also unclear if superdish will by default look at all 4 locations. There are lots of unanswered questions about how Dish will use their fleet over the next few months.

Echostar really needs to get E9 up.

I agree, we really do not know exactly how E* will distribute all the channels and weather the SuperDiish can handle four orbital locations by simply strapping on a 4th LNB or not or if E* will need to introduce a SuperduperDish that is slightly larger then the SuperDish for the small minority who will need to see 105/110/119/121 or if they will use 2 SuperDishes to get all four. The next few months are going to be interesting to see how things shake out. Have a Happy 4th
!pride

[nostar]

This winter I might upgrade my equipment with an HD DVR device that may cost $1000. I will look at what programming is currently delivered and what the equipment does. If DISH has what I want, I will go with DISH. If Directv has what I want, I will go that direction.

Anyone that hangs unto talk of a “SuperDISH”, a future satellite, or some other rabbit that Charlie might pull out of his hat; is a fool.

Must also consider obsolescence, as we all remember the 5000. I'm not really big on government intervention, however I think we need some controls on dbs equipment and the length of it's service.

[Jacob S]

If they do not get 121 and our locals up here 3rd or 4th quarter this year then they are going to lose a lot of the market here along with many of their existing customers and my business will more likely be a wash and I might as well quit. Most everyone here wants their locals and a lot of them will do what it takes to get them. Dish promised to get it up 3rd quarter. If DirecTv gets their locals up when they were supposed to 3rd and 4th quarters this year and Dish doesn't, then this is going to be a big blow to Dish as DirecTv will be getting a lot of the customers that Dish could have gotten in those markets as well. In other words, it will be mostly DirecTv sales in those markets, not Dish.

[bluuz]

With regard to HD, I'm not sure even the insiders at Dish know what they will ultimately do or offer. The SuperDish announcement sounds ambitious, too ambitious IMO. Am I alone in wondering whether the whole Superdish thing is even technically feasible, much less marketable? Sort of like the 921 HD PVR. Anyone really believe we'll see that thing this year?

Heck, maybe Dish will prove me wrong and roll something out in the next few months. Hope so.

[Jacob S]

I am sure the SuperDish is feasible, it is similar to the Phase III dish in a way. If the Phase III dish is marketable and people want HD and locals, they will more than likely get the SuperDish. Since there is not much HD available and if Dish offers it first and thats the only way to get it, then it will sell.

[Mike123abc]

There have been successful dishes that can pick up 4 satellites at once in Ku-FSS (lower power and closer together than Ku DBS). There is no doubt they can stamp out a piece of metal in the right shape to focus 4 satellites at once. The key is getting the switches to work with all the existing recievers.

[ChrisPC]

You people live in a dream world.

You got me wrong, I don't even have E*! :)

[Jacob S]

I wonder if they plan on coming out with a quad lnbf (or whatever they will call it, something similar) for the SuperDish allowing an output from the switch to 4 receivers instead of 2. Some people would hate to have a bigger dish up but a lot more would really hate to have 2 of them things up when they only had 1 dish up before. Perhaps they will use stacking or something instead.