I just don't get it.

[Mike Richardson]

I just don't get why DISH Network doesn't carry all the channels that they don't. They can't cost THAT MUCH! They have SPACE on the satellites! So why don't they add these extra channels?

Cable is slaughtering DISH Network when it comes to movies. Most cable companies in larger markets (read: Houston) have almost, if not all the movie channels. Both DBS companies are just lazing around with the least that they can get by with.

Is there anything the average Joe can do to influence DBS to get back on the ball?

PS: This is my first post here. Been lurking for a while. You might know me from alt.dbs.echostar too. Great boards here.

[gcutler]

Originally posted by Mike Richardson
Cable is slaughtering DISH Network when it comes to movies. Most cable companies in larger markets (read: Houston) have almost, if not all the movie channels. Both DBS companies are just lazing around with the least that they can get by with.


Not around here in Atlanta. You need the Cable digital plan to get most multipacks and Cable tends to have less multipack channels than dish.

And to be honest, these Multipacks don't necessarily make the viewing better unless you are into lots of lame movies. They aren't filling up the channels with 4 star movies, they are just showing more "Paulie Shore" movies ;)

[Mike Richardson]

I've seen movies on one of the channels that DISH Network does not carry, that I would have liked to seen. Of course, they show up on a channel I do have, about a month later. It's about having more choices at any particular time. I'm not talking about west feeds, I'm talking about actual channels with different content. ThrillerMax, HBO Zone, etc.

Originally posted by gcutler
And to be honest, these Multipacks don't necessarily make the viewing better unless you are into lots of lame movies. They aren't filling up the channels with 4 star movies, they are just showing more "Paulie Shore" movies ;)

[boba]

Mike I suggest taking the same route open to all customers. Email CEO@echostar.com and request the channels you want added, on the Charlie Chats call in and request the channels. DISH does listen to the input but they still have to see a benefit to adding the channel. If adding HBO Zone is going to require increasing the cost of the HBO package to $14.99 will they lose more customers or will they gain more subscribers that is the decision DISH has to justify.

[Mark Holtz]

You're better off writing to Dish rather than e-mail. I actually got a call from Dish's office.

[Jacob S]

They probably do not get nearly as many people writing in as they do emailing plus when you write a company it shows the time you took to write and pay for postage.

I wonder about the extra movie channels and mtv/vh1 thematic channels thats on cable and not on dish/direct. I know some that do not have to get a special expanded package to get those if I am not mistaken.

[FTA Michael]

Originally posted by Mike Richardson
I just don't get why DISH Network doesn't carry all the channels that they don't. They can't cost THAT MUCH!:shrug: Depends on what you think is "that much."

Suppose the profit margin is $2/sub on a package. Now suppose you're considering adding two channels at no extra change, and those channels cost you $0.20/sub, which really isn't that much.

For every thousand subs with the old package and programming fees, you'll need to draw 1,111, or an extra 11%, just to keep the same profit total you had with the old package.

So the question becomes whether these relatively insignificant channels are going to pull in enough extra subs (or keep enough current subs from leaving) to make them worth adding. E*, which squeezes nickels until they yelp, seems to think they won't.

[Jacob S]

If one provider adds it, more than likely the other will. They been concentrating more on locals and soon HDTV than these other channels. They gave us a bone by giving us MuchMusic (now Fuse) and VH1 Classic. Why only one and not the rest? I figured the channel owner would package them all together for one price instead of charging individually for them but I guess they do not do that to prevent their base channels from being added.

If they added some HBO's, then some MAX's, then some SHOWTIME'S and STARZ along with MTV and VH1 suite channels then it would all add up. They are trying to keep the prices down. Cable just adds them and ups the rates. We should at least get this channels as an option but then that would make customers angry that they are not included in at least top150 and those channel owners would not like that either and probably want that in a more base package.

[rtt2]

I am just getting a little frustrated that more of the movie channels are not being added. My cable company has the full suite of movie channels and Dish still does not.
A lot of people are drawn to DBS for the Movie packages or the Sports packages. Being that Dish is not so strong in the sports package offerings it should at least pump up it movie channel offerings. It doesn't even have to add everything but just a few more like HBO Zone just to prevent people from defecting back to cable.

[Jacob S]

DBS used to be the choice because of channel selection, more channels and it seems to went from that to cheaper price. Their strategy has seemed to change obviously.

[Timmy]

Does anybody get B-Mania Television? Its sounds pretty neat.

[jerryez]

Dish has a lot more channels than Cox cable, here in Pensacola. The problem is Who watches all of those Dish channels. I never watch any of the 9000's numbered channels. They could take all of them off and add the CMax's other channels.

[Chris Freeland]

I would not look for any significant SD channel additions until the 105 and 121 satellites are up, like Jakob said E* and D* are both concentrating on HD and Local additions at this time. Until 105 and 121 are up any spare bandwidth at 110 will likely be used temporally by HD and some of the new locals slated for this year. Hopefully 121 will bu up by the end of the year, their is already an old satellite at 105 but it is debatable whether it can be used or not, if not it will be at least 3Q 04 before the new satellite is up and operating at that location.

[Chris Freeland]

Originally posted by jerryez
Dish has a lot more channels than Cox cable, here in Pensacola. The problem is Who watches all of those Dish channels. I never watch any of the 9000's numbered channels. They could take all of them off and add the CMax's other channels.

E* is required by law to carry those 9000 numbered channels, they are called Public Interest channels, and besides some people like those channels. :)

[jerryez]

Originally posted by Chris Freeland


E* is required by law to carry those 9000 numbered channels, they are called Public Interest channels, and besides some people like those channels. :)


If E is required to carry them, then why is D and the cable companies not required to carry them.

[Scott Greczkowski]

DirecTV does have public interest channels.

Cable Companies have them too, except theirs are called Public Access stations. :)

[jerryez]

Cable may have one or two public interest channels. D has more, but no one has 23 public interest channels, but E. And that is just the 9000 numbered channels. If you add in CSPAN and NASA and probably a few more.
Scott how many does D even have. D did not even carry NASA, when I subscribed to D.

[Scott Greczkowski]

It all goes on the number of channels and satellite you have, the number of channels is set by Law. Nasa is on DirecTV (its on their 110 satellite)

My favorite Public Interest Channels are RFD TV and Coulors. The one they should kill would be Good Samareten Network.

[MikeW]

Instead of adding more movie channels, I'd rather see the bandwidth go to providing the DD 5.1 channels that are currently not being sent. This would include all Showtime channels, Encore, and TMC. As you can see though, everybody has their likes and dislikes. I've even seen raving posts about the Public Interest channels. Dish simply has to measure how much of each piece does it take to add and keep subs. Even wishes for Trio & Oxygen are consistent, but how many folks would like to see those channels added if it were to up the cost to Dish and ultimately the price to us?

[scooper]

Scott - I beleive NASA is D* 119 (not 110). Just a small correction.

[Scott Greczkowski]

Ahh your correct Scooper, I just remember it was not on the main 101 bird. :)

[Jacob S]

RFDTV seems to be one of the most popular public interest channels they have added. I bet anything they compress the public interest channels a bit more than the rest of them since those are required to be on and watched a lot less than the rest of the channels. You can tell by looking at the picture quality on some of those channels. I believe Sky Angel channels are compressed a bit more as well.

I believe NASA was on 110 at first then moved to 119 later. This happened right around when the Dish500 was first introduced.

[lee635]

I'm not so impressed by all the extra movie channels. We had Showtime and HBO for about a year, and we watched SHO-E, SHO-W, HBO-E and HBO-W the most. That's where the big ticket movies and specials go first. The only exception might be the HBO Signature type channels that air artsy type movies that don't get on the main channel.

And once I've seen a movie, I rarely want to sit through it again. I'd rather the premium companies spent my subscription fees to acquire content, not to add extra channels to duplicate programming. JMHO

[Darkman]

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski
Ahh your correct Scooper, I just remember it was not on the main 101 bird. :)

That's right - Nasa is on DirecTV's 119 bird...

[RichW]

What many people "don't get" is that Dish is very successfull with their existing channel lineup, pricing policies, and service. They continue to gain market share and are at the breakecen point in their business plan. They have a certain philosophy that has been coinsistent, even though many people grumble about it here.

Now ask yourself. If you ran a company that was succeeding in its business plan, would you reduce your income or increase your costs? The mass exodus of Dish subscribers to cable or DirecTV hasn't happened, and new subscriber acquisitions more than make up for any churn.

That being said, it is my opinion that Charlie does "throw out a bone" periodically. He does this, not really to get more business, but to keep the DBS business exciting and new for even us long-time subscribers. The excitement of DBS does wear off. If he gave everybody everything all at once, what would he do for an encore (no pun intended). I am generally happy with Dish in that the company has added every channel I have ever requested... eventually. The remaining possibilities, other than locals, are not that much in demand and would raise the cost of service to everyone in that package, putting pressure on on price increase.

[Mike Richardson]

Yes, it is true that DISH Network is gaining subscribers. But eventually they're going to stop gaining unless they put up a better fight in markets like Houston.

[Jacob S]

I agree about giving everyone everything at once. Instead of adding all the channels at once he adds one here or there. I think sometimes he waits until there is a price increase until he adds some new channels that way it makes it seem like there is something to show for it and to make it look like you are getting something for paying a little more even though thats not the reason for the price increase.

I also think some of those channels does not have high enough demand and that is resulting in them not being added. Perhaps if more people requested those channels they may get added. I think its just a matter of time before they do get added and with the concentration on adding locals and in the future HDTV there is limited bandwidth. Perhaps he is also waiting on getting 105 and 121 up. If he does get 61.5 off of Rainbow then there will be a lot of extra room for additions.

With there being more price increases than ever before they are trying to keep their costs down and not add channels that does not have to be added if there is not enough demand for them and if they are keeping the bulk of the customers happy right now.

[Mike Richardson]

Signature Test

[Chris Freeland]

I was one of the early E* subs back in 96, when the only package's was AT40 and DishPix, it was exciting every time that a new channel was added. I am still satisfied with the service I have had with E*, I had AT150/Supers/Dish Nets/PBS and found their really was not any more channels available out their that was on my must add list. Now for the last several months since I have had very little work I have ben forced to go without any satellite or cable service, just ota and it has not ben too unbearable, so when I have my service turned on again I will likely start back with AT100 only which includes the majority of channels my family enjoys, my point is that ever more channels are nice but do not make much of a difference any longer on my satellite enjoyment.

[waydwolf]

Originally posted by RichW
They continue to gain market share and are at the breakecen point in their business plan.

    Did you say breakeven? That would mean they've been running behind in red ink HOW long now?

    Too bad, because cable still has more movie channels, video on demand, is adding PVRs and HD, and will carry HD locals that Dish never will not to mention telephony and high speed Internet(they seem to have forgotten their disasterous mismanagement of their relationship with Starband). They also are well past breakeven and running black ink.

    Dish is shooting themselves in the foot by not reaching parity with cable and carrying the premiums they do, and instead trying to make up for it with niche offerings that aren't nearly as popular among average TV viewers. They're also failing to act as aggressively to court the exploding mobile market as DTV and DTV's efforts are beyond anemic as it is.

    What they do have is the best adult package anywhere as well as foreign programming found nowhere else. The foreign packages alone account for close to half of their business in Fairfield County here in CT by my reckoning(going by what I've installed as well as visual survey of their dishes aimed at 61.5). Fortunately, Fairfield County is Cablevision which is among the most amazingly retarded cable operators, taking until this year(2003!!!) to launch a digital offering after promising it to this extremely wealthy section of our state for YEARS, so E* still has a leg up when it comes to that market.

    I wish for the sake of my E* installation income if nothing else, that they'd wake up and start competing as if they were serious and drop their continued idiocy(along with DTV) of trying to compete based on analog cable systems of 1983. This is 2003 and they need to take the blinders off, honestly see what the cable industry's tech base really is like, and position accordingly or else they will get slaughtered in the market within the next five years.

[joe]

Originally posted by waydwolf


    Did you say breakeven? That would mean they've been running behind in red ink HOW long now?

    Too bad, because cable still has more movie channels, video on demand, is adding PVRs and HD, and will carry HD locals that Dish never will not to mention telephony and high speed Internet(they seem to have forgotten their disasterous mismanagement of their relationship with Starband). They also are well past breakeven and running black ink.

    Dish is shooting themselves in the foot by not reaching parity with cable and carrying the premiums they do, and instead trying to make up for it with niche offerings that aren't nearly as popular among average TV viewers. They're also failing to act as aggressively to court the exploding mobile market as DTV and DTV's efforts are beyond anemic as it is.

    What they do have is the best adult package anywhere as well as foreign programming found nowhere else. The foreign packages alone account for close to half of their business in Fairfield County here in CT by my reckoning(going by what I've installed as well as visual survey of their dishes aimed at 61.5). Fortunately, Fairfield County is Cablevision which is among the most amazingly retarded cable operators, taking until this year(2003!!!) to launch a digital offering after promising it to this extremely wealthy section of our state for YEARS, so E* still has a leg up when it comes to that market.

    I wish for the sake of my E* installation income if nothing else, that they'd wake up and start competing as if they were serious and drop their continued idiocy(along with DTV) of trying to compete based on analog cable systems of 1983. This is 2003 and they need to take the blinders off, honestly see what the cable industry's tech base really is like, and position accordingly or else they will get slaughtered in the market within the next five years. Guess you never heard of comcast??? they raise rates every 6months and they are trying to force everyone to digital cable with competion like that no wonder they gain market share

[woodman]

There is a simple (but elegant) solution to this "problem", but it would take a monumental lobbying effort on the part of many people to possibly bring it about. Interested?

[Geronimo]

Most of the alleged advantages of cable are potential advantages. When my cable system has these capabiolities I will consider switching but until then I would be paying more for less.

[Brett]

If anything DirecTV needs to add more plexes to the HBO, Cinemax, Starz package.

Dish seems to be fine in number of premiums they carry.

With DBS, a new channel added detracts from the amount of bandwith the DBS operator can give to an existing channel.

DirecTV has ample of PPV channels that could be reduced in favor of 1 or 2 more premiums.

My gut feeling why DirecTV hasnt added more HBOs and Cinemaxes is probably their contract with Time Warner. They may have a favorable long term contract that gives them keep a larger percentage of revenue.

If they want HBO Comedy, etc., they might have to go for a more current contract that maybe less favorable to DirecTV. It was reported that Comcast was unhappy with the AT&T / Starz! contract they inherited.

[Tony S]

No one has mentioned this yet, but over the last several years I have seen it posted many times that it does NOT cost DirecTV or Dish anything extra to carry more of the premium stations. For example, once they have paid for the HBO rights, they can carry one, or all of the HBOs.

The reason that the satellite providers do not carry more of the premium stations is that they do not think that the extra channels will provide that much benefit to them or their customers. They feel that using the bandwidth on channels with redundant content is not really worth it. They would rather use the bandwidth for other purposes (like locals).

[RichW]

Originally posted by Tony S


The reason that the satellite providers do not carry more of the premium stations is that they do not think that the extra channels will provide that much benefit to them or their customers. They feel that using the bandwidth on channels with redundant content is not really worth it. They would rather use the bandwidth for other purposes (like locals).

Exactly!

I believe that once most of the locals are added, the emphasis will change toward adding more services.

The original poster complained that DBS is not competing with cable. Yet what most people want is their local channels (or at least the networks) integrated into their service whether it be cable or DBS. DirecTV, who at one time opposed LIL service, quickly got religion when they realized the fact that there was buyer resitance to DBS because of the lack of ABC-NBC-CBS-FOX carraige on DBS. In is in this area that Charlie has been most astute (and aggressive) in his understanding of this and his vision to provide consumers what they want. This is also one of the main reasons (foreign programs being another) that has allowed Dish to add subscribers and gain market share. Essentially they are givng attention to what is most desired by the customer base.

[Jacob S]

I do not know whether to believe whether all of those movie channels that they wont add are repeating the other channels or not.

Also wouldn't it be the same thing with the movie mutliplex channels as it is with the mtv/vh1 suite channels? I know they are not redundant and I figure they would be allowed to carry the rest of them without any additional charge like they could the movie channels if that is the case.

[Mike123abc]

It looks like both Dish and DirecTV agree that locals is what is driving the business now. Both are racing to get as many markets as they can. Soon they will run out of new markets (well will run out of markets where locals will pay back when they carry them).

I do not think an extra HBO or Showtime will get them another million subs. They will have to find that next. They have to be searching like crazy for ideas that will bring in the next few million beyond LIL. Charlie seems to be betting on 105 next with a capacity of 64 or so HDTV channels will bring him the next big growth spurt.

[Brett]

Originally posted by Tony S
No one has mentioned this yet, but over the last several years I have seen it posted many times that it does NOT cost DirecTV or Dish anything extra to carry more of the premium stations. For example, once they have paid for the HBO rights, they can carry one, or all of the HBOs.


Are you sure of this? Could I see a link? Thanks.

I have to question why DirecTV will add commercial riden programming to their lineup (like CNBC World, Movie Watch, America's Store, Telefutura etc.) but not add more premium services like HBO Comedy if so.

[Brett]

Originally posted by Mike123abc
It looks like both Dish and DirecTV agree that locals is what is driving the business now. Both are racing to get as many markets as they can. Soon they will run out of new markets (well will run out of markets where locals will pay back when they carry them).

I do not think an extra HBO or Showtime will get them another million subs. They will have to find that next. They have to be searching like crazy for ideas that will bring in the next few million beyond LIL. Charlie seems to be betting on 105 next with a capacity of 64 or so HDTV channels will bring him the next big growth spurt.

But Dish has added more premium movie plex channels (including 5StarMax and Action Max). Dish has pleased almost all its customers (except Dishplayer customers fiasco, and customers that want the pricey RSNs).

DirecTV hasnt added anything new for years in terms of premium movie channels (standard definition). Originally, DirecTV was the leader in number of premium movie channels (more than digital cable and Dish) and they touted this advantage.

I myself like the premium movie channels. I'm glad Dish has added some new ones just to give its customers something to check out. DirecTV though has kept HBO at $12, a really low rate. However they require a basic package to be taken first.

[Brett]

Originally posted by Jacob S
I do not know whether to believe whether all of those movie channels that they wont add are repeating the other channels or not.

Also wouldn't it be the same thing with the movie mutliplex channels as it is with the mtv/vh1 suite channels? I know they are not redundant and I figure they would be allowed to carry the rest of them without any additional charge like they could the movie channels if that is the case.

Most the remaining MTV/VH1/BET suite channels are rap video channels. I really think DirecTV and Dish could add them for a small nominal fee (videos themselves are promotional tools for singers). But, neither provider wants it.

[Mike123abc]

Considering the charge for the premium movie packages, you would think they would carry all of them (well not all the west coast feeds of the minor ones). Cinemax has 3 channels that Dish does not carry yet. But, I guess this is the minimum number they can get away with and still have people sub.

[Mike Richardson]

Originally posted by waydwolf
video on demand
I tried Time Warner iControl at a friend's house and it didn't work. Half the time I just got an error code and the show did not start. The fast forwarding and rewinding is also erratic. Before people start claming this as a killer app they need to work out the bugs first.

[Mike Richardson]

Adding local markets is nice and all and will bring subs in from other smaller markets. But they're losing in bigger markets and once they make sure that Bo-Bob in Nowheresville, Iowa can get his CBS, they'll look at their sub numbers for markets where cable has wised up and I think they'll be disappointed.

[Jacob S]

They will need to diversify and offer other things than video service to customers but also offer such things as internet by satellite and other things on more of a big scale. Dish has no internet service at this time to offer while Direct does but not too many subs like they have with their video service. Something needs to be offered that is cheaper in which Dish plans to offer for under $50.

MTV JAMS, MTV HITS, VH-1 SOUL, VH-1 MEGA HITS, VH-1 COUNTRY, those are the channels that are not added yet. I thought there were a few more than this. The rock stations VH-1 MEGA HITS, VH-1 SOUL, and MTV HITS I would not think would be all rap.

[jerryez]

So, how many subscribers does it take to break even with a local channel. They get $5.99 for a group of locals. How many subscribers does a small local town have. Out of 300,00 households, how many subscribe to Dish. VS how many households would subscribe to MTV Jams (or whatever) on a National basis. I do not think it is fair to add these small niche channels to the AT packages and make everyone pay for it.

[Chris Freeland]

Originally posted by jerryez
So, how many subscribers does it take to break even with a local channel. They get $5.99 for a group of locals. How many subscribers does a small local town have. Out of 300,00 households, how many subscribe to Dish. VS how many households would subscribe to MTV Jams (or whatever) on a National basis. I do not think it is fair to add these small niche channels to the AT packages and make everyone pay for it.

I agree, I feel one of the advantages to satellite over cable tv is that even in areas where E* and D* have locals on satellite, subs have a choice as to whether they want to get locals via satellite or save $5 - $5.99 on E* or $2 - $5 on D and get them for Free after the one time purchase of an antenna. More Choice is one big advantage DBS has over cable.

[Jacob S]

What Mike123abc said hit the nail on the head. They have enough channels to get by to make subscribers happy enough. Customers would be more unhappy with a rate increase than not getting a few additional channels. I was just saying that if it costs no more to get the extra movie channels being in a package group then I would think it would be the same with the MTV/VH-1 package as well and that they would make some kind of deal to carry the rest of them for a pretty cheap amount.

I figure that they do charge extra for the other movie channels along with those MTV/VH-1 suite channels and customer demand is not great enough to add these to overcome a rate increase. If they do get added I figure it would become part of the top150 package. Some think that there should be more added to top150 seeing how much more it is than top100 while others think the package is a great value. Dish has done what they could to try to keep the rates down. I do understand why they do not add them if they do indeed cost more.

[Mike123abc]

I think the current business model is not based on if we add locals will enough subs subscribe to locals to pay for them. I think it is based on if we add locals how many new subs would we get. Sure, you can put up an outside antenna, but people don't think that way. They view it as "what I cannot get my locals like on cable?". Many people rather pay $5/month than put up an antenna. Besides there are a lot of people that have reception problems on one channel or another and requires lots of special tweaking to get a good picture.

For example here I get great over the air of everything except ABC if I point the antenna in one direction. I have to point the antenna in a different direction to get a good ABC. So, I have to have a rotar (ugg one TV at a time) or have a single cut antenna just for ABC. There is a good reason cable caught on early when it was just the locals plus HBO.

[Jacob S]

I also think that Dish may add every single DMA even if some are at a loss due to the fact that they could charge everyone extra for the locals since they would be available to everyone and include it in the basic packages but may be able to charge less for them if many more are subscribing to them.

I also think that there is a possibility that they may be offered seperately from the basic packages but I think Dish and Direct may want to put them in with the basic package so that subscribers do not think they are being charged extra for the locals on satellite but not charged extra on cable in which they advertise this against satellite.

Even if they do not make the money off of the locals they make it off of the other programming, it is just an additional investment to get those customers.

Advantage of satellite - You can order just the movie channels or local channels if you want (on Dish anyways). You can take the system other places and still pick up your locals (as long as you remain under the spotbeam the locals are being transmitted from)

[gcutler]

Originally posted by Jacob S
I also think that Dish may add every single DMA even if some are at a loss due to the fact that they could charge everyone extra for the locals since they would be available to everyone and include it in the basic packages but may be able to charge less for them if many more are subscribing to them.

They will offer all DMAs even at a loss so as to avoid the customer from going to D* no matter wht the situation. If 10,000 smallest DMA subs are going to spend on everage $40/month+, E* might decide it would rather lose $1 per month on the locals then have D* get the $40/month. Of course there is some economic formula as to how much the customer must spend and how much they are willing to lose providing locals. If the average customer spends $50/month, then they can lose $2/month for locals and still be ahead or if the average customer spends $30/month, any locals higher than DMA 150 might be a loss. The issue is that there is probably some MBA working on the formula.

[rtt2]

The only problem is that when Cable advertises they will say, "we offer X amount of movie channels and blah, blah, blah" When you compare this to D* or E* it makes Satellite look inferior.

[gcutler]

Originally posted by rtt2
The only problem is that when Cable advertises they will say, "we offer X amount of movie channels and blah, blah, blah" When you compare this to D* or E* it makes Satellite look inferior.

But anything Cable says in their advertising will make E* and D* look inferior, and most of the time they are outright lying (Rainfade, Death due to inability to get local weather channels, etc, etc)

[rtt2]

Yea I know but the satellite companies should at least stay ahead of the cable guys in terms of channels. Satellite used to be the place to go if you wanted to get the most channels. Unfortunately it looks like Cable is the place to go to get the channels you want. Wake up Charlie!!!! People want this stuff.

[gcutler]

Originally posted by rtt2
Yea I know but the satellite companies should at least stay ahead of the cable guys in terms of channels. Satellite used to be the place to go if you wanted to get the most channels. Unfortunately it looks like Cable is the place to go to get the channels you want. Wake up Charlie!!!! People want this stuff.

But that depends. Your statement is not true where I live.

[Jacob S]

People used to get satellite for more channels at still a reasonable price but now it is more about price than channels since they already have a good channel lineup. People want to save money and still get a decent service that gives them most of what they want.

Dish and Direct will either get the money out of their other packages to make up for what they lose on the locals or package the locals in the basic package to make sure they get it from everyone. Perhaps they will have the option of not taking locals for a discount (although it will probably be a smaller amount than what the locals cost now). Perhaps they would give you a $3 discount that would make up for the cost of locals.

Everyone would be paying something for it whether they have them or not in a sense if they do what I just mentioned. Its like paying for having the option to get them just like paying the $5 fee if you dont order a basic package.

[Chris Freeland]

Originally posted by Mike123abc
I think the current business model is not based on if we add locals will enough subs subscribe to locals to pay for them. I think it is based on if we add locals how many new subs would we get. Sure, you can put up an outside antenna, but people don't think that way. They view it as "what I cannot get my locals like on cable?". Many people rather pay $5/month than put up an antenna. Besides there are a lot of people that have reception problems on one channel or another and requires lots of special tweaking to get a good picture.

For example here I get great over the air of everything except ABC if I point the antenna in one direction. I have to point the antenna in a different direction to get a good ABC. So, I have to have a rotar (ugg one TV at a time) or have a single cut antenna just for ABC. There is a good reason cable caught on early when it was just the locals plus HBO.

I agree, most people do not think that way and when they can get their locals on satellite they will pay that extra $2 - $5.99 to get them. I can get a good ota picture on my local NBC3. ABC9, CBS12 and LP3ABN30, however because I get a fuzzy picture on my local GPTV-PBS18 and WB53, totally un watchable TN-PBS45 and FOX61, once E* adds my locals, I will likely sub to them for the better pq on the fuzzy channels and to get watchable versions of the unwatchable channels, plus having them on the epg and being able to record them once I am able to upgrade to a E* PVR, however their are people out their who like the DBS option of saving some money and getting their locals ota for free.

[Mike D-CO5]

In the Beaumont Texas area (90 mile from Houston) where I live, we have time warner cable and they advertise over 250 channels. Yes they have ever imaginable time zone of the premium channels . But it is the same movie playing on the east coast that runs on each time zone delayed by an hour . You are really not getting that much more in choice in movies, just choice in when you will watch the same movie.


What is even funnier is they are using a big sat dish to pick up all these time zones so they can pipe them to us over cable. Either way you are using satellite to get your premium channels on the digital cable. The difference is you are paying a lot more to get the same amount of premium channels on cable vs Dishnetwork.

And Time warner does charge you for your local channels. They run me around $14.00 a month just for basic channels vs $5.99 or $4.00 in AEP with locals with Dishnetwork.

[Mike Richardson]

Originally posted by Mike D-CO5
In the Beaumont Texas area (90 mile from Houston) where I live, we have time warner cable and they advertise over 250 channels. Yes they have ever imaginable time zone of the premium channels . But it is the same movie playing on the east coast that runs on each time zone delayed by an hour . You are really not getting that much more in choice in movies, just choice in when you will watch the same movie.


What is even funnier is they are using a big sat dish to pick up all these time zones so they can pipe them to us over cable. Either way you are using satellite to get your premium channels on the digital cable. The difference is you are paying a lot more to get the same amount of premium channels on cable vs Dishnetwork.

And Time warner does charge you for your local channels. They run me around $14.00 a month just for basic channels vs $5.99 or $4.00 in AEP with locals with Dishnetwork.
I could care less about west feeds. In fact if all Dish did was add ThrillerMax and OuterMax then I would be as happy as a clam. Don't care about the west feeds.

So why don't you have Dish Network if you are paying so much? ;)

[Jacob S]

Locals are only $4 extra with AEP? I wonder if they let you purchase local channels individually for $1.50 a piece like they used to or if you have to purchase the whole package for $5.99. I would take them all but was just curious in case someone asks me this in the future. They change things so much its hard to keep up with it.

[Mike D-CO5]

I 'm sorry I should have said $5.00 with AEP for a total of $79.99 a month. It is $5.99 if you buy locals by themselves .I think you can still buy distant locals for a $1.50 each but I don't know about locals for your area individually.

I do have Dishnetwork but I also have Time Warner Cable for basic locals in Beaumont as well as a cable modem for my internet connection. Would love it if Dish would come up with a good broadband connection for satellite as long as it is cheaper than the $54.00 I have to pay to get my Road Runner connection . They make you sub to their locals as well as your Road Runner cable modem. Without locals it is only $6.00 less than with them. I hate to use old style rabbit ears so I pay the extra money to get them. If Dish would hurry up and uplink my 4 local channels east of Houston I could cut the cable entirely.

[DChristmann]

Originally posted by Jacob S
I figure that they do charge extra for the other movie channels along with those MTV/VH-1 suite channels and customer demand is not great enough to add these to overcome a rate increase.
Bingo. It's very much the law of diminishing returns.

My local cable company may offer the 14 (or however many) MTV and VH1 channels that Dish doesn't offer. It doesn't really affect my life that much. If they did add MTV Polka and VH1 '80s Hair Metal, would I watch them? Maybe for a combined total of 1 minute a year, which would be the sum total of all the time I spent flipping past them while surfing. Would I be paying for them? As an AT150 customer, almost certainly.

So I just don't care about whether Dish adds them or not. Same goes for the other HBO and Skinemax and Showtime channels. Maybe you care. If so, great. But there just aren't that many people who'll make their DirecTV/Dish/cable decision based upon that. There probably aren't even that many people that would put those channels in the "it would be nice" category. Most people would be genuinely apathetic. I'll bet you I could name a few channels that Dish doesn't carry that I'd like to see that would fall into that category. I'd like to see them, but I don't think for a second that Dish is really missing out by not carrying them.

Honestly, there isn't a single nationwide SD channel out there anymore that falls into the "must have" category that Dish doesn't have. And no, HBO Chick Flicks doesn't count as "must have." All the "must have" channels at this point are local channels for ever-smaller markets. So personally, it wouldn't bother me if Dish stopped adding nationwide SD channels at this point. Improve picture quality or better yet, save the room for HD channels, which people are wanting in increasing numbers.

[music_beans]

Here is my ENTIRE list of what I want on DISH:

Public Interest:
Annenberg/CPB Channel
ESD101 Step Star Network (bits of it are broadcast during schooldays on EE 9413, but not all.)
PBS Kids
Classic Arts Showcase

General Channels:
Nicktoons TV
Trio
Fine Living
CBC/CTV Canadian Channels
BBC News24

Shopping: :lol:
Americas Store

That is all for now.

[Jacob S]

I didnt know they had a seperate channel for Nicktoons TV. Is there a list of all the channels there is for the US (what is on cable and satellite) and then on that list the ones that we do not get marked? I am just curious.

[Mike Richardson]

Originally posted by Mike D-CO5
I do have Dishnetwork but I also have Time Warner Cable for basic locals in Beaumont as well as a cable modem for my internet connection. Would love it if Dish would come up with a good broadband connection for satellite as long as it is cheaper than the $54.00 I have to pay to get my Road Runner connection . They make you sub to their locals as well as your Road Runner cable modem. Without locals it is only $6.00 less than with them. I hate to use old style rabbit ears so I pay the extra money to get them. If Dish would hurry up and uplink my 4 local channels east of Houston I could cut the cable entirely.
I have Eartlink Cable Internet, costs only $42 a month. Normally with Road Runner I'd have to pay $50 because I don't have any cable TV. With cable TV it's $45 which is still $3 less. You are eligible for Earthlink Cable so you should get it and save some money.

[Chris Freeland]

Originally posted by DChristmann

Bingo. It's very much the law of diminishing returns.

My local cable company may offer the 14 (or however many) MTV and VH1 channels that Dish doesn't offer. It doesn't really affect my life that much. If they did add MTV Polka and VH1 '80s Hair Metal, would I watch them? Maybe for a combined total of 1 minute a year, which would be the sum total of all the time I spent flipping past them while surfing. Would I be paying for them? As an AT150 customer, almost certainly.

So I just don't care about whether Dish adds them or not. Same goes for the other HBO and Skinemax and Showtime channels. Maybe you care. If so, great. But there just aren't that many people who'll make their DirecTV/Dish/cable decision based upon that. There probably aren't even that many people that would put those channels in the "it would be nice" category. Most people would be genuinely apathetic. I'll bet you I could name a few channels that Dish doesn't carry that I'd like to see that would fall into that category. I'd like to see them, but I don't think for a second that Dish is really missing out by not carrying them.

Honestly, there isn't a single nationwide SD channel out there anymore that falls into the "must have" category that Dish doesn't have. And no, HBO Chick Flicks doesn't count as "must have." All the "must have" channels at this point are local channels for ever-smaller markets. So personally, it wouldn't bother me if Dish stopped adding nationwide SD channels at this point. Improve picture quality or better yet, save the room for HD channels, which people are wanting in increasing numbers.

This is how I feel too, their is not one must have SD channels out their that I want that E* does not already carry either, their are some would be nice to have channels like Trio, however not a big deal if they are never added. Increasing demand for HD and demand for my locals on satellite are the two areas that can still generate extra sales and revenue for both E* and D* and that is where both of these DBS companies are expanding on at this time.

[FTA Michael]

Jacob,

The page you're looking for is "America's Top 200", found here:

http://servicedesk.dbstalk.com/AT200.htm

[dlsnyder]

Originally posted by music_beans
Here is my ENTIRE list of what I want on DISH:

Public Interest:
Annenberg/CPB Channel
ESD101 Step Star Network (bits of it are broadcast during schooldays on EE 9413, but not all.)
PBS Kids
Classic Arts Showcase

General Channels:
Nicktoons TV
Trio
Fine Living
CBC/CTV Canadian Channels
BBC News24

Shopping: :lol:
Americas Store

That is all for now.

I agree!! AT150 as it is now is not appealing to me or my family. My kids would like to have Boomerang and my wife would like to have SoapNet or whatever it's called. If the above channels were offered as part of AT150 then I would take it and never look back.

[Jacob S]

Thanks. I remember that these were the channels that people wanted to be on the top200 package of the future that was posted a while back.

[Bobby94928]

Originally posted by dlsnyder


I agree!! AT150 as it is now is not appealing to me or my family. My kids would like to have Boomerang and my wife would like to have SoapNet or whatever it's called. If the above channels were offered as part of AT150 then I would take it and never look back.

 

Am I in a time warp?  Boomerang is on Channel 175 and SoapNet is on Channel 188. 

 

Bobby C

[toad57]

I want the Heckle & Jeckle channel...

[Jacob S]

Maybe Bobby was trying to say that he would like to have both of those channels that are in the package but its not enough for him and his family to like the package to get it. Either that or he did not know that those two channels were in the package.

[Bobby94928]

Originally posted by Jacob S
Maybe Bobby was trying to say that he would like to have both of those channels that are in the package but its not enough for him and his family to like the package to get it. Either that or he did not know that those two channels were in the package.

 

Perhaps you're right Jacob.  DLSnyder may be looking for a bit more.  However, think of it this way.  For $9.00 a month you get SoapNet which pleases the wife, Boomarang which pleases the kids, plus you get the Encore movie channels.  There is a little something in there for everyone and for $108 a year you get a happy household.

 

Bobby C

[Jacob S]

It is pretty well a variety package in which they knew all of the channels would not satisfy everyone but there would be certain thematic channels that people would like with the encore channels to boot along with the other ones.

[frabman]

It's all package this and package that.

What I want is an a-la-cart option. Outside of the movie channels, there are maybe 20 other channels I *ever* watch. Why should I be forced to buy a 50-channel add-on package in order to get the 2 or 3 channels I want?

Why should my hard-earned cash be funneled through to a broadcaster I hate when I'm trying to support one I love?

Regards,
Mark

[dbronstein]

It's all package this and package that.

What I want is an a-la-cart option. Outside of the movie channels, there are maybe 20 other channels I *ever* watch. Why should I be forced to buy a 50-channel add-on package in order to get the 2 or 3 channels I want?

Why should my hard-earned cash be funneled through to a broadcaster I hate when I'm trying to support one I love?

Regards,
Mark

I think it's a couple of reasons:

1. Because Dish makes more money that way. If there are particular channels that someone wants, they will usually pay the extra money for the package even if that means getting 47 channels they don't want.

2. The contracts with the channels won't let Dish sell them a la carte. The networks know they would have many fewer subscribers if customers could pick and choose which channels they get. So even if a few people were willing to pay a bit more in the subscription fee, it would still be a net loss because they would have so many fewer subscribers. And they would also lose ad revenue because they would have so many fewer subscribers.

Dennis

[Jacob S]

Dish is sold a set of channels in which cannot be split up. Since they get a bundled deal they see that its better to just sell them all in a package because the more that gets the packages the better deal everyone gets and the more money they make therefore thats the cheapest way to do it in order to get the most channels and to maximize profits. Its like a compromise. When channels are sold individually the cost goes way up on each channel.

Rainbow plans on selling some channels ala carte.

[Mike123abc]

R/L DBS has indicated that they will offer a bunch of small themed packages, and some channels a la carte. Perhaps they will be successful enough they can influence dish/direct to offer smaller packages. But, it will be interesting to see what they cost.

[TNGTony]

Here is my ENTIRE list of what I want on DISH:

Public Interest:
Annenberg/CPB Channel
ESD101 Step Star Network (bits of it are broadcast during schooldays on EE 9413, but not all.)
PBS Kids

Can't be a public interest channel. Only one per company. PBS You already has the spot. This is the same reason C-Span is a PI channel, but C-Span 2 isn't. Of course it could be added as a general interest channel. :)

Classic Arts Showcase
Great channel! We use it as filler for overnight and weekend programming on one of our channels. Love it!

General Channels:
Nicktoons TV
Is this a real network? All I can find is the programming block on Nickelodeon. I don't see a separate network.
Trio
Fine Living
CBC/CTV Canadian Channels
Not in this lifetime. The CBC and CTV both have programs that are sold to other distributors here in the U.S. There are numerous copyright issues. The only way this would happen is essentially the same way we get the BBC. And we know how that's working out! Yetch!
BBC News24
Nope...not unless Discovery Networks lets it happen. They control BBC America and that channel has exclusive rights to BBC World.
Shopping: :lol:
Americas Store
LOL....okay, you can have this one full time. :-) Several channels have this overnight already.

See ya
Tony

[Mark Holtz]

TNGTony: Nicktoons is a real, functional channel. See http://www.nick.com/all_nick/nicktoons/

[DCSholtis]

FYI Fine Living is a Scripts Howard/Food Network Channel.

[frabman]

I think it's a couple of reasons:

1. Because Dish makes more money that way. If there are particular channels that someone wants, they will usually pay the extra money for the package even if that means getting 47 channels they don't want.

2. The contracts with the channels won't let Dish sell them a la carte. The networks know they would have many fewer subscribers if customers could pick and choose which channels they get. So even if a few people were willing to pay a bit more in the subscription fee, it would still be a net loss because they would have so many fewer subscribers. And they would also lose ad revenue because they would have so many fewer subscribers.

Dennis

:soapbox:

I don't give a flying *$&% about supporting networks that can't support themselves. If the market for a particular channel is so small that without bundling it with a popular channel it would die - then it deserves to die - or if it's supporters are hard-core enough to pay the fees necessary for it to live it'll live.

For gawds sake, do we need all these stations that only broadcast half a day anyway and run infomercials the rest of the time? I'd rather use that bandwidth for better PQ or more HD channels.

This all goes back to analogue cable technology anyway, I think - the only possible way to sell the service was in chunks that could be attenuated above a certain frequency - at least I think that's how it worked. Now, will all the digital technologies and addressable STBs - we have the means to move out of the dark ages of generic "packages".

Now, I'd prefer a true single-channel a-la-cart setup, but I would tolerate a "network" pack - like say the "VH1" pack (which has all the VH1 channels), an "MTV" pack, etc...

And you know the thing that really chaps my hide... the Movie Channel West feed, which you don't get - even if you subscribe to the Showtime/TMC package - unless you get the Top 150 pack. WTF is that?!?

And the "Top" packs themselves... are you kidding me? Top how? Are they telling us that C-SPAN 2 is more popular (since it's in the "top 50") than FX (which is in the "top 100")? BULL****!

It all just makes me sick. :barf:

Regards,
Mark

[Jacob S]

So would it be misleading or false advertisement then if they did not put a top 50 channel in that package or a top 100 channel in that package and so on?

Also if C-Band and Rainbow can/will be doing it then how come can DirecTv and Dish Network not offer some of the channels ala carte?

[rtt2]

Don't complain about the way E* names their channels. I think D*'s channel namming is much worse.
If you are going to name some thing total choice than that should mean the Total Choice of Channels Avaliable. When I was shopping for a DBS system I got confused with D*'s naming system. They should name their packages differently like Some Choice, More Choice, Total Choice etc.

[davhol]

I think we're all forgetting that package "bundling" is something imposed by the program provider(s) and NOT (so much) by the transport medium (Dish, Direct, cable). Disney, who owns, EPSN and ABC Family channel, for example, DEMANDS that a carrier bundle certain stations with certain tiers. DISH (for example) can not violate their contract terms with Disney to satisfy a customer's request to unbundle a channel. Just like (the US) Congress "bundles" unpopular bills with other important legislation to get them passed no matter what (because the "primary" bill is SO important people will swallow the unpopular bills), programmers and providers also bundle less popular channels with more popular ones and contractually obligate the distributor to NOT unbundle the services. Yeah, it "sucks", but this is the reality of the times in which we live. Sorry!

[crkeehn]

Don't complain about the way E* names their channels. I think D*'s channel namming is much worse.
If you are going to name some thing total choice than that should mean the Total Choice of Channels Avaliable. When I was shopping for a DBS system I got confused with D*'s naming system. They should name their packages differently like Some Choice, More Choice, Total Choice etc.

At the time Total Choice was created it was the total choice, DirecTV offered two packages Select Choice and Total Choice. A few years back they added another level which is where Total Choice Plus comes from.

[BobMurdoch]

My Cablevision Optimum Online bill states that the Disney Channel will no longer be available as an a la carte channel and will be part of their Family Cable bundle. So it sounds like the great rush to force everyone to buy EVERY channel they don't want to get the few they want continues unabated.

[Jacob S]

Disney charged so much for the channel ala carte that it made it hardly worth buying it alone, not much cheaper than the basic package in which it was in.