Business Person of the Year

From the Rocky Mountain News:

insidedenver.com/drmn/bus...21,00.html (http://insidedenver.com/drmn/business/article/0,1299,DRMN_4_899921,00.html)

I think I'm going to be sick.........obviously consideration isn't given to how he treats his employees. If they knew, I guarantee he wouldn't be winning any awards.

Its unfortunate that treating employees like crap is considered good business.

There was a time in business that bosses took care of the employees who took care of them.

Times have changed. I wish we could turn back time.

It use to be we payed a good price for good service, now we pay a good price for service, and take what they give us, most of the time if we like it or not.

Scott

I personally know 3 people who work for the DiSH Network -- or at least admit to it. One is a director level, one is in IT, (both in Denver) and the other works at the Cheyenne facility. All three of them speak highly of the company and of working for Charlie.

The guy who works at the Cheyenne facility has several years with the company dating back to when the uplink facility there first started to ramp up. He jokes on Mike Dugan constantly and complains about having to commute the 100 miles to Cheyenne each week (he and his family live in Denver). But, other than that they all seem to agree that the company and management are better than average.

I think that his image to consumers is much more tarnished based on broken promises, lack of compassion towards ongoing problems, etc. But, you've got to hand it to him strictly as a businessman coming from almost nowhere and now leading a billion dollar empire.

I'll admit that I'm not entirely happy with him and company, but you've got to give him credit for what is/has accomplished against many odds.

When someone has accomplished what Charlie has, pretty much single handed, it is natural that he would be the target of attacks from all sides. I take all comments about employee problems with a very large grain of salt. He wouldn't have gotten where he is by treating employees as he is accused. Myself, I think a good part of the problem is envy, not only of his accomplishments, but also and mostly of his personal wealth.

.....but until you guys have worked there, I don't see how you can defend the guy. Granted much of the "mistreatment" of employees is not directly from Charlie himself, but from the people below him that handle the day to day issues. Don't tell me the guy doesn't know what goes on. Yes, I worked there and bailed out, thankfully. But I worked under a lot of great people who were chased out because they were free thinkers and had the nerve to stand up to the power-hungry-yet-insecure-with-their-own-jobs managers and higher ups when something wasn't being done right. Charlie and his minions like to fly by the seat of there pants without realizing what it does to the rank and file. People in that company are promoted without having the legitimate experience needed to do their own jobs and it gets too frustrating for the ones that do know what their doing, so they quit. I speak from experience.

If you have a friend that's a director in Denver, then I seriously doubt he/she could get a similar job anywhere else because they aren't qualified. And IT? From what I've heard from departments that have to deal with IT, they don't know there head from there ass.

You can take what I say with a grain of salt since I can't say who I am or what I did there, but I can assure you it's true. That place is BAD news. And I hate seeing bad people get ahead. There are so many good workers that get the shaft while the a**holes get promoted (in any job) and I'm just tired of seeing it happen.

So go on, poeple - keep supporting this jerk and his "wonderful" company. I'd love nothing more than to see Dishes satellites blown out of the sky by a meteroite. My dream is to see everyone at Dish lose their job. Maybe that's harsh, but that's what most of them deserve.

I will have to say that I honestly dont know what the conditions are over there, I have received a few emails from former Dish Network employees who had nothing but bad to say, however every story has 2 sides my feeling is that the place must be ok to work for as people are wanting to work for them.

One thing I don't like is on every Charlie Chat, Charlie always makes fun and puts down his employees. Sometimes his comments are hard to tell if he is joking or not.

I must admit though I have always wanted to sit down and have a beer with Charlie.

Scott

Disagree, I must admit that your first paragraph sounds just like the company where I work! Honestly, where in Corporate America do you NOT see such activity occur?

Scott's right, there are two sides to every issue. DiSH has undoubtedly suffered growing pains just like every other upstart on the planet.

Like I said before, I have yet to hear horridly negative comments about that company from any current employees that I am acquainted with. So, I would be hard-pressed to believe such problems are significantly more widespread than all other corporations.

Whenever I encounter a former employee of my company at the mall or wherever, the conversation seems to always start with something like: "Is so and so still a jerk..." or "Are the rumors true? Did he really get promoted?" yada, yada. The key word here is "former." Of course if you leave a company there is a reason that made the company you are leaving less desirable than what you left to go to. So, why should anyone be surprised that you are disgruntled whether it be alot or a little?

PS. I've never known an IT department that had it completely together. Why should the DiSH Network's be any different?

Let's assume for a minute that you folks are competent at your jobs and care about the product you put out. Now I would assume that you work with people that don't deserve to have a job because they really don't know what their doing - and are obvlius to it. Of course those poeple are going to complain - especially in today's job market. They are going to be happy they even had a job because they know they suck at it. It's the people that care about there jobs and are good at them that get frustrated by the morons.

Also realize that Dish is famously cheap when it comes to pay, and I can assure you it shows with the employees. Theyll hire any person that breathes. In fact, they are so desperate for CSR's that even people they hire that flunk the test or smart off to the trainers during training won't get fired. It's almost impossible to get fired from that company as a CSR because there hard to find. But anyone else in the company that shows a little chuzpah is at risk of going bye bye, for one reason or another (because their position can always be filled by promoting an unqualified CSR).

I'm sure other company's are the same or similar. But when I hear about other company's doing things like Charlie does with his, I don't support them either. If I could only tell you what I knew....maybe the company has a 2nd side to my situation, but I assure you, it's not valid at all, and my old boss's that left in a similar way would back me up (and they are very respected people with MUCH better jobs now). If only I could talk.....

Ah, the old "if only I could talk" excuse. If your comments are true, there is no reason you can't talk. Such a comment casts doubt on the rest of your comments.

The "if only I could talk" is hardly an excuse. I know that poeple there read these boards and I'm not about to expose my complaints for them to see. None of you know the players involved, so me saying anything isn't going to mean anything - just my word vs theirs. And knwing how sue-happy those people are, I'm not about to put myself at risk of any legal pressure. You wanna know something, then ask - but I'm not going to openly start gushing my griefs.

I'm sure there are plenty of people there that like there jobs....but with so many departments, you can't make a blanket statement that "people there seem to like their jobs". Of course people higher up and in power are going to like their jobs. Incompetence is not a reason to lose your job at that place. I happened to work in what I thought was a pretty important department where things mattered but I came to find out that even the boss's in the department didn't care about the end result. And when you work harder than everyoen else and do a better job than everyone else, you tend to become a target because you make the other's look bad. It quickly becomes an unsteady environment. And even when your boss's and there boss's know about it, they do nothing to correct it - because they don't care.

Bottom line with nearly every department at Dish is this: they don't care. Just like any company, you'll occasionally come across that one person that really does care but it's rare. Generally, everyone there just shows up to collect a paycheck. As an uneducated guess, I'd say that honestly less than 20% of the employees there take any pride in there work or go above what is asked of them. And people wonder why there equipment and customer service sucks. That's why.

If you worked at DirecTV, then the response would be opposite. The Dish people here would go "See see...DirecTV is an inferior company". Its okay for people to say anything negative about DirecTV, but...when they say anything negative about Dish, then they act like its unfair.

Hey Scott I caught your post and immediately thought of his comments regarding the engineers. Even when watching the chat this past Monday I kind of thought it was a bit cruel to toss such barbs publicly. It's really poor managerial form.

I do understand his frustration though. A boss asks for a timetable on a job and is usually given an estimate. If Charlie's engineers continue to lag behind or put forth flawed products then it really is understandable that he gets frustrated. That is especially so considering some of the scathing letters I'm sure he receives.

At the same time whenever dealing with products this complex I don't think it too unreasonable that goals, at least in terms of time, aren't being met. Software and development can and do fall behind schedule. It's almost a given with any product or company I'm familiar with.

That doesn't excuse public cruelty or demeaning employees in such a way......and of course frustration over the DP is on another level entirely lol J

In so much as the comments that E* employees read these boards it's true. I was told by no less than three employees at E* and two CSRs that they did indeed read the newsgroups but had a company policy that prohibited posting.

Some I knew for a fact even reached my old firewalled group because they could sit right there on the phone and discuss the days, or several days topics.

I do disagree with what was stated about the employees not caring. During the first nine months after the DishPlayer was released I found various people at E* more than helpful in answering questions, discussing the product, and providing insight into the reasons behind some of the problems with the product.

Just today one of those conversations came to mind when I read a post stating that they were having problems with upgraded DishPlayers frying their power supply. Gee E* only had me pass that along in Jan of 2000 and everyone thought I was crazy 8-) Of course they also clued me in to the official upgrade program which started in April 2000 if I recall.

Those people cared about the product, cared about the community, and cared enough about their jobs to want the community to know that they were doing their best as they took pride in their work.

Sure they were frustrated with WebTV/MS but it was E* employees who helped their community not WebTV when it came right down to it. While what you are saying may be true to one extent or another, I couldn't honestly just sit back and say nothing when I knew there were a few people who were so helpful and so caring when this community had no one turn to for help. J

Disagree, You said: "Bottom line with nearly every department at Dish is this: they don't care..." I sincerely doubt that you have contacted all 11,000-plus employees of the DiSH Network and can say this honestly.

Besides, you have revealed that you are a CSR meaning you answer the phone for DiSH Network and this explains plenty.

For those that don't know, the Call Center is generally the part of any corporation that has:
- lowest pay
- lowest skill requirements for hire
- highest turnover rates
- highest stress levels
- highest percentage of disability claims and sick time
- the largest density of employees crammed into the smallest area of office floorspace
- highest incident of personnel issues requiring a greater number of managers per employee

In summary, these are the qualities of every Call Center environment I have ever encountered.

I'm sorry to inform you, but you and your situation are not unique by a long shot. I have plenty of experience in this type of environment. Both my wife and I are loosely tied to Call Centers at our respective companies and it's like "Days of Our Lives" every day of the week at both places. In fact, my company even has a separate set of guidelines for handling CSRs with kid gloves becuase they are such a unique breed. I can't tell you how many incidents have occurred in that environment throughout my 6 years here: fist fights, ass-kissing galore, sex in the office, managers that are obsessed with numbers only -- speed of answer, etc. and could care less about the humans answering the phone, half the office is out on disability during any given week, and the complaints go on and on. Yeah, most of the stuff you described.

Funny thing is, Mr. Disagree, is that when I travel and interface with others in the same line of work as myself, a majority of our time is spent trading stories about psychotic CSRs. Dude, I hate to say it but that's part of the territory. Find another line of work.

If you don't believe me, ever wonder why companies like Teletech have thrived and grown into billion dollar companies over the last couple of years? It's because more and more corporations are tired of dealing with the B.S. and strain that a Call Center puts on their image and the rest of their workforce so they outsource that part of thier business. Again, it's not DiSH, it's the part of DiSH you work for.

First off, I'm not a CSR and have no clue what I said to give off that opinion. I was several "ranks" higher up on the food chain - in a position to know a lot of things and deal with most DEPARTMENTS in the company (not 11,000 employees, but DEPARTMENTS - try reading what I said). Gee, guess your whole theory is shot, pal.

People that call in to the call center are contacting the part of the company that makes NO decisions, has almost no input on what goes on. Their just messengers. I worked in an area that had decision making ability and influence over many things that affected everyone in the company - including customers. So when I say I got an "I don't care" attitude from tthese departments, I can say that because I dealt with those departments firsthand. Firstly, the people that are in charge of the call centers and training are morons. That's why the CSR's seem so clueless. And I worked with people in an important department that openly admitted to me that they didn't gice a crap about their job or what they did. And do you honestly think marketing or I.T. or any other department there knows what their doing is negatively affecting the call center and/or customers? Let me tell you right now, they don't. They role out promotions without considering how it's going to affect people, so when I would see them with everyone else, I would wonder why they didn't address these issues - and if you try to say anything about it, you get your hand slapped. THAT'S the problem I had/have with that company - they don't care, period. And it all starts right at the top.

No where did I say my situation was unique - I actually said I know this goes on at many places, did I not? My entire point in regards to this thread was that Charlie doesn't deserve Businessman of the Year because of the way he runs his company and treats his employees.

And again - your whole premis of your post is that I'm a CSR which I was not (in direct relation to my griefs with the company). Trust me, I was around CSR's all day, I've been a CSR before, so I know of the horror stories. I'm not talking about a piddly 6.00/hour job. So once you realuize that, we can talk some more.

First you say this:
"People in that company are promoted without having the legitimate experience needed to do their own jobs and it gets too frustrating for the ones that do know what their doing, so they quit. I speak from experience... And I hate seeing bad people get ahead. There are so many good workers that get the shaft while the a**holes get promoted (in any job) and I'm just tired of seeing it happen."

Then you say this:
"...It's almost impossible to get fired from that company as a CSR because there hard to find. But anyone else in the company that shows a little chuzpah is at risk of going bye bye, for one reason or another (because their position can always be filled by promoting an unqualified CSR)."

That's why it appears that you were a CSR or at least were VERY close to this position. You can't deny that, because you've already stated it.

Really, it's not necessary to play the victim here. Charlie was awarded Businessman of the Year for doing what businessman do -- that is, make money for the company and it's shareholders.

As far how he does that, you can either agree or disagree with that process -- but, what you must agree on is that he has turned a local po-dunk satellite business into a multi-billion dollar corporation. Now, he's in a position to become to the DBS industry what Bill Gates is to Operating Systems.

Your saying he doesn't deserve that notoriety because the morale level is low in some of his departments? I disagree with that assertion. Assuming that he has done nothing illegal to get to the point where he now is, I say that how much his employees "give a crap" has no bearing on whether or not he has been successful at what he set out to accomplish.

>>"Your saying he doesn't deserve that notoriety because the morale level is low in some of his departments? I disagree with that assertion. Assuming that he has done nothing illegal to get to the point where he now is, I say that how much his employees "give a crap" has no bearing on whether or not he has been successful at what he set out to accomplish."<<

Where did I say anything about morale being low? You can't read worth a crap, dude. I said he treats his employees like crap and it's passed down form the top. Yeah, he's such a great business man because he has so few complaints with the BBB and all over these boards. Sorry, but in my opinion, there's more to being a good businessperson than just making money (which he hasn't yet, by the way). And just as many people will say he's ruined DBS with the addition of locals. And the things I said about the CSR situation are common knowledge in that company. You just refuse to take anything I say without trying to play me off like some CSR or something. Take a step off the grassy knoll for a minute and think about the facts I gave. You don't have to agree with them or believe them if you don't want to, but stop trying to twist it around by saying I don't have knowledge about what I'm talking about.

Well "Disagree" I find myself agreeing and disagreeing with some of your latest post though I think you bring up some points that people around the various groups have broached in a very long time.

You wrote:
Yeah, he's such a great business man because he has so few complaints with the BBB and all over these boards."

I don't know what groups you've been reading but I've been busting his chops for quite some time, but ONLY when I thought he deserved it. I'm not alone in that. Many many people are just as harsh, if not moreso than I am in my criticism.

"And just as many people will say he's ruined DBS with the addition of locals."

Chuck personally? I don't believe so. I believe it was the cable industry who pushed the courts to force the dbs providers to carry local channels.

I will say this though....I never like the DISH 500 satellite dish idea. I felt it a waste of money. "Up to 500 channels". Nonsense. They weren't even close in the beginning and still aren't now. I never liked the idea of having to buy even more hardware in order to obtain common channels.

Maybe it's because I came from Primestar who did provide more channels than Dish Network for even less money. Maybe it's also because they had a better variety of broadcast channels without assaulting me every five seconds via broadcast or mail to have me contact my congressman.

If Chuck has destroyed anything over more than two and a half years I've been a subscriber it is peoples trust in him and the ease of simply buying a product and having it work with no muss and no fuss.

Price increases, adding crap channels, taking away decent channels, providing crap receivers, not fixing crap receivers, constant pushes to upgrade hardware, constant pushes to go credit card pay, spamming like no other company I've ever encountered on a variety of subjects, and ultimately passing the buck every time he gets the chance. That erodes my confidence in him personally and in his company. J

...your recent pst reminds me of some other things. First, my comment about Charlie having so few BBB complaints and such - that was sarcasm......not sure if it came across that way or not.

Also, when you mentioned the 500 channels nonsense. Imagine how much CSRs hate answering that question when a customer calls in and asks them to list off the 500 channels they can get. And to add to the false advertising campaign they do, listen to their radio ads say "crystal clear video" - are you kidding me? "500 channels" and "crystal clear" - man, I wish someone would take them to court over truth in advertising.

As for the locals issue, it was Charlie that thought it would be a good idea to make different cities' locals available to the whole country. Once he did that, it's now exploded into must carry, wasting bandwidth, terrible PQ, and this possible merger with Direct TV. If it weren't for locals, Charlie would have plenty of bandwidth for any channels he wanted and would've had no reason to buy Direct.

What kind of "Businessman Of The Year" instills this much deception and lack of trust in his customers? Some of you might say that EVERY successful businessman has to employ these tactics to be successful, but in today's society, economy, and job market, I have no sympathy for ANYone that treats people like crap, and these poeple shouldn't be supported. I'm sure there are plenty of good companies out there worth supporting.

Hi again. I didn't know you well enough to know if you were being sarcastic or not so assumed(my bad) that you were telling it as you perceived it.

I agree with you entirely about their advertising claims. The 500 channel garbage was exactly that garbage. I'm not entirely convinced that the hype actually worked in drawing new subscribers or getting old subscribers to upgrade to the new dish or programming. When we start talking about hundreds of channels I think you automatically have to take off for the music channels, PPV channels, and Fox sports channels. What is left? Maybe 40-50 decent channels while the rest is crap.

I would much rather see E* put forth a campaign that would exploit their better bang for the buck. Additionally I would like to see them go back to something they've gotten away from....letting the SUBSCRIBER choose a package of their creation for a set price. Again they could exploit empowering the consumer while at the same time exploit the providing of value.

I don't necessarily agree that the addition of locals was a bad idea. I'd base the decision upon cost and subscribership. It is obviously going to cost a heck of a lot to provide so many channels. At the same time I highly doubt, though to be fair I don't have numbers on this, that there are as many locals subscribers as there are straight out broadcast channel subscribers.

Personally as long as I get the programming that is found on CBS, ABC, Fox, NBC, and the superstations, I could really care less where they are based. Maybe a return to west coast/east coast offering isn't a bad idea.

Truth be told that was one of my favorite things about Primestar. While all the channels were west coast and or east coast, they varied in location. I enjoyed the varying news coverages, sports that would be shown etc. My favorite was ABC out of Miami. Since I'm a Dolphin fan I got to see Don Shula's talk show before every Monday night game. Unfortunately they changed feeds so that they could provide the Olympics out of Atlanta.

Back to the issue though....While Chuck may have opened the door, and honestly I'm not sure whether E* or DTV had locals first, it was the cable companies that did push for the must carry rulings since it was the cable companies that were in effect standing to lose the most and being treated unfairly. J

Obviously, DirecTV had locals first - in the form of E/W nets. But Charlie started adding all the other cities, offering them to whomever wanted them. THAT'S what ticked off the cable companies, because THEY couldn't do that. So they threw the ball back in Charlie's court and said "fine, if you want to do that, then carry EVERY channel in that city like we have to."

This was Charlie's baby, and I'd love to see a poll of how many think locals have ruined DBS - of maybe there is one. Anyone that thinks locals have ruined DBS couldn't possibly agree that Charlie is the Businessman of the Year. That would be a contradiction in terms.

Do I really have to go back and quote you again ad-infinitum to remind of what you have said in previous posts??? Okay, maybe you did use the exact phrase "there is low morale," but how would you classify employees who "just don't care," "don't give a crap," "are chased out," "tired of seeing it (the B.S.) happen," etc. -- Do I really have to remind you?

The definition of low morale is... oh nevermind, that's getting old...

As for being awarded Businessman of the Year, I honestly respect your opinion on whether or not he is qualified for the award. But, I truly believe that he does deserve such recognition based on what he has accomplished.

Similarly, I happen to think that Walmart and their business tactics of coming into small towns and running every other business, small and large alike, out of town is evil and despicable. However, as a business they would have to be applauded for doing what they sought out to do -- that is build a successful, profitable money-making business.

In the same regard, FROM A BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE, Charlie Ergen has built a successful business that will be profitable within a few years. He has millions of customer who return each and every month with money and continue to subscribe. His stock is considered one to watch. For those and several other reasons, he is a successful businessman. For the people he pisses off along the way up, well, that's unfortunately the cost of doing business in this country.

Name ONE COMPANY whose customers AND employees are 100% happy 100% of the time. When you can do that, you've got a leg to stand on for knocking Charlie for receiving such an award.

>>"Name ONE COMPANY whose customers AND employees are 100% happy 100% of the time. When you can do that, you've got a leg to stand on for knocking Charlie for receiving such an award. "<<

Oh, is THAT the criteria? Who said anything about 100% of the people being happy 100% of the time?

I've worked in plenty of places where the employees had "low morale" - but they still did their jobs. Dish does NOTHING to discourage employees from not caring about their jobs. They don't get discliplined, written up, suspended - NOTHING. It's the people that care who end up getting mistreated. God forbid someone below Charlie and his Nazi managers have an idea or better way to do something. THAT'S why I dislike Charlie so much.

My point is that he shouldn't have been named Businessman of the Year because of his intra-corporate tactics - not because of his external business tactics. But perhaps how you treat your employees isn't a consideration for this award.

I assure you - I'm not the only one (of higher position) that feels this way about Dish Network. I had 2 managers above me that were damn good at there jobs who left because of the reasons I've given. And Dish did nothing to keep them there and ended up replacing them with people that had no clue or experience in those positions. Maybe that describes every company out there. But I, unlike the rest of you, want to promote the fact they treat people this way and try to get this kind of thing changed - not just sit here and say "that's just the way it is" or "every company is like that". It's because of people like you that force tghings to be this way in the first place. So I'll take all the ridicule you can hand out, but I stand foirm in what I say about Charlie and his company (from firsthand experience - not as an observer like most of the rest of you).

The locals situation is an external business tactic -- and you have spent plenty of time in this thread whining about that.

How many pessimists do you know in this world that are successful? I'm all about getting things done with as little buearocracy and with as much encouragement in the ranks as possible.

The suggestion that every company in existence has former employees just like you is not an assertion that people like me condone such behaviours within a company. From DiSH's perspective, you are just collateral damage. A person can either play with the big dogs in their company, earn the respect of their peers and be successful, or they don't fit the mold of that particular organization (i.e., some people are born to be used car salesman and others can't stand to lie to a customer's face -- therefore, they shouldn't be in that line of work).

I've said it before, it's a fact of life in the corporate world and DiSH Network is not a unique player. Move on and find another job that is more befitting of your personality and ethics -- stop agonizing over what didn't work for you. It's sounds like some of your former managers were able to make the transition without coming here to complain about their former employer.

E has klots of employees leaving, with the local call center I hear about these folks who start at E and migrate to better positions, in other companies.

In the past I posted ideas to elp employee morale, I doubt any of those low cost ideas were implemented.

E has some problems in not properly supporting their employees, heck their dealers dont get treated very well either.

But look at their growth, they are doing lots of stuff right:)

I did some checking a MAJOR source of local call center churn is the pay. E is paying just over $7 a hour for new hires whereas other centers like cellular are paying nearly $12 a hour to start. E s other locations pay the higher rate also, so employees use the local center as a stepping stone for other jobs... That all well and god for the workers bettering themselves, but employee churn cost them experienced trained workers. This jst doesnt tick off the subs but other employees as well who are forced to TRY to clean up the messes undertrained workers create. CSRs get yelled at a LOT!

Then too E looses subs over such problems, and supervisors have little authority to make subs happy.

I checked on this after a espically bad problem a CSR created for me. After the 7th call still had loose ends and supervisors wouldnt compenstae me I inquired as to how much leeway they have to issue credits or other compensation. Found out it was near ZERO:(

A low level verison friend has $200 of authority and he is just a first level complain handler. They monitor that they dont give away the house, and he documents why he gives out credits, but ultimately those credits save the company money from otherwise lost subs.

E REALLY needs to give their employees the authority to make unhappy customers satisfied.

Well, $7 is not low for a CSR. At the company were I work, the scale range is from around $6 an hour to $25 an hour. And that is all based on the level of support they provide to the customers. Yes, churn here is very high also -- but, mainly at the lower end of the pay scale. Those types have almost zero authority. They only answer calls, take notes, and transfer calls. The next step above them can only answer the questions that the knowledge base on their PC gives them the answers to. Again, essentially no authority.

When it's necessary to escalate a situation, it goes to one of the people with the authority to make things happen, issue a credit, etc. I want to emphasize that these two categories cover greater than 90% of the calls. It's that small leftover percentage that get escalated and have to be handled in a different manner.

Those at the higher end of the pay scale have toughed it out long enough to survive and move on through the ranks. The cellular company that you suggested paying $12 an hour is for someone with prior experience or training. I guarantee that with the complexity of troubleshooting a cellular network, there are some pre-requisites to employment.

Yes, training is a problem. Mainly because the calls don't stop coming in while everyone spends a day or two or five in training. Couple that with the already high churn rate and you can see where training is a never ending process.

From my experience, I'd say that the pay is not primarily the issue. In fact, I'd say that dealing with customers on the phone for 8 or 10 hours straight every day of the week makes the job much more difficult to handle. In some groups it's literally non-stop from the time you sit down in the morning until you finally get to leave whenever that might be. All it takes is one or two pissed off customers first thing in the morning and the stress level for that entire day will be off the chart. No, it's not usually very rewarding work -- but then again, you can get in the door without even holding a high school diploma.

...you're exactly the problem with companies today. You so easily write-off someone as "not being right for the position" or "colateral damage". You have completely ignored most of what I've said just so you can find a way to write it off.

I had no problems with my work - in fact, I was the best at what I did in my department - easily. People always came to me with questions because they knew I knew the answers (even my new bosses came to me a lot because they had no clue what they were doing). Problem is the come out and say "we want to hear your ideas", yet when you do, you are condemned for it. This has nothing to do with me not being a fit for my job at all - I assure you.

As for the "whining" about Charlie adding so many locals - yes, that is an external business tactic. That was a separate addendum to why I thought Charlie shouldn't be Buinessnan of the Year. And why is it "whining"? I guess everyone in here and everywhere else that registrs a complaint about ANYTHING is whining, huh?

Jeff, you are exactly the kind of person that causes people to leave their jobs. You are so intolerable or willing to listen to what someone says - you just jump and essentially say "quit whining". It's a shame that people like you are everywhere in corporate America. No wonder so many employees are incompetent.

You have got me all wrong. Perhaps I appear that way to you because I disagree categorically with what you have to say.

All I am saying is three things:

A) Don't classify an individual who turned a small-time BUD business into a multi-billion dollar company based on your personal employment experience

******* or not, poor boss or not, he has accomplished much and overcame alot of adversity along the way. That, ALONE, is why I think he is deserving for this consideration -- as a BUSINESSMAN, nothing else.

B) Don't classify an individual based on how others perceive that corporation

Though it may appear that you aren't the only one who is bad-mouthing him, how he treat's his customer, or what it's like to be one of his employees, it still does not represent everyone's opinion on said matters. I assure you that there people who know him who think he's a great guy, employees who love working there, and customers who are happy with the service that DiSH provides. Generalization proves absolutely nothing.

C) Not every person is fit to do every job.

Perhaps you are very good at what you do; I'm not questioning that about you. But, you obviously weren't the perfect fit for that organization or you would still be there and thriving. If you are as good as you state, then I'm certain you will be successful somewhere else.

C'mon, if even half the things you said about working at DiSH were true, of course I don't agree with such practices. But, there are individuals who do thrive in such sorroundings -- and with 6 million-plus customers, I guess they are doing something correct.

If you want to define the boundaries of good businessmen versus bad businessmen as only those who are integritous, then you'd be eliminating nearly all of the upper management in America (not to mention some of the clergy). As far as businessmen go, Charlie has been pretty successful.

Let's face it, you were simply not cut out for working in the type of corporate environment that DiSH propagates (good or bad in your opinion). But, posting your personal experiences as if they were the gospel all over the internet really proves nothing except that your personal observations were not as positive as others, now does it?

Firstly, I respect your opinion on point A as to why you think Charlie is deserving. I disagree, but I respect it as a point with info to back it up.

I do disagree with your B and C - as it relates to what I've been saying.

B. I never said my opinion was that of the majority in that company. As I explained before, many of the employees that work there couldn't tell you there head form there ass. There so oblivius to the fact they can't properly do their job that there happy with it. I'm sure you know people like that where you work. I have not made any generalizations regarding other people's points of view. Any generalizations I have made are fact based on the work I did and what I know about how things work there.

C. You're looking at the "not every person is the right fit for their job" thing backwards. The problem was that I was perfect for what I did. I knew everything (and more) that I needed to for my job; I went above and beyind what I was asked or expected to do; based on performance reviews, was the best at my job in my department; and was known for having "all the answers" (in a general sense). The people around me were the ones that weren't the right fits as they had no clue what they were doing half the time and it became my job to clean it up. Unfortunately, there were more of "them" than there were of me, so it's easy for people to gang up on you when you become a target. Anyone that's almost "overly good" at there job easily becomes a target (or "hated") by everyone else because the good ones make the bad ones look even worse. That's employment in America. If THAT'S what you mean by me not being a fit for my job, then I guess you'd be right - although I see it as just the opposite.

I also don't see myself as "posting my personal experiences as if they were the gospel all over the internet". This is the only place (and thread) I've expressed anything, and it was in direct relation to the topic. My personal experiences have been labelled as such. I've stressed things as fact that I know to be true. What have I done wrong? I haven't spoken on behalf of anyone that hasn't personally told me things about their experiences with Dish (other employees from there I've mentioned). So your last comment isn't really a fair one.

We can agree to disagree. After all - you don't know me or what I did there. I'd LOVE to tell you what I did there and why I left if I thought you'd believe me anymore when I say what I do. But I specifically stated my thoughts in regard to the topic at hand. But my whole point coming in here was not just to bitch and moan for the sake of it - I could've done that in any thread if I wanted to.