question about early termination of service

[shilton]

Hi,
A very good friend of mine signed up for Dish with a 1 year comittment about 4 months ago. Since then, due to a change in jobs he had to move and at his new apartment, Dish came out and said there is no way to connect him there since he cannot get good clear signal to the satellite. They want him to pay ther termination fees for cancelling early. But its not that he wanted to cancel, they simply could not help him at his new address so he had no choice. Is there anyone I should instruct him to try and talk to about not paying the termination fees? It seems harsh to me since he wanted the service and can't get it.

[TNGTony]

Can't help here. But when he signed the CONTRACT he said he would keep service for a year. He PROMISED to do so. In return, he received a VERY reduced price in the equipment he purchased and possibly programming price incentives.

Since he could not live up to his end of the deal, he now has to pay that back as he agreed 4 months ago.

It is not the other party to this CONTRACT's fault that his circusmatances changed.

I hate to be so harsh. But that is what it boils down to.

Would it be cheaper for him just to keep the account open and just pay the subscription fee for the rest of the year then cancel?

See ya
Tony

[Jacob S]

A lot of times it is cheaper to keep the cheapest package in which was promised under contract for the year's time until the 12 months is up (only 8 months left). Since the first bill is for 2 months then that would leave 7 more months to pay. The cheapest package being $25 it would cost $175 plus tax unless you are under Digital Home Plan in which could be for more than one receiver and cost more than this. That should be compared to how much you have to pay as a penalty and do not forget the retailer and his penalties for early cancellation on top of what Dish charges.

If it was just a free system deal where he does not lease it but owns the system and does not have to return it then he is in a better situation because he can sell the hardware and make up for a lot of the cost of the termination.

If he does own the system then perhaps you could make a deal where you pay for the programming for the rest of the year in which may be cheaper anyways and sell the system to someone else for a little more seeing that the programming is paid for several more months or would this be wrong to do? The programming would be paid for so that is not really stealing. Its like he is paying for programming for someone else. After the one year is up he could have the name and address along with phone number changed to the person owning the hardware.

This seems kind of iffy and I dont want to suggest this to be done if would go against any rules or anything.

[boba]

The fact DISH could not get a line of sight is not DISH's fault when he rented the apartment he should have verified that he had a view to the satellite. He chose the apartment not DISH Network. He signed the contract for 1 year of service no one twisted his arm, now it is time for him to live up to his obligations.

[Bob Haller]

This is one of the reasons I quit being a dealer.

Imagine if he got divorced and had to move. The rules are inflexible and arbritary. Heck if a spouse dies and someone goies to a nursing home its the same way.

I would send a nice mail to CEO@ECHOSTAR for help

[Jacob S]

I have had customers die but fortunately it was after the one year in most cases. I have also been through the divorce thing but sometimes they end up signing up in the other person's name and signing up for service somewhere else.

I remember one person that I switched over from Primestar to Dish Network and they were not married long. Well later they got divorced but his wife kept the satellite and got with another woman and seen a different ad I seen in the newspaper, some deal I was running at the time for $125 for a limited time with free installation when it was normally $200. He probably didnt know it was the same person that put in the other system when he called for me to come out but sometimes you gain sometimes you lose in those type of situations.

[TNGTony]

The rules are inflexible and arbritary

The rules of a contract NEED to be inflexible for the protection of both parties. And they are NOT arbitrary. The company is doling out money to a party in the expectation that they are going to get paid back.

Lets put it this way: You go to a bank and get a second morgage on you house (no mortgage insurance of any kind). Your spouce leaves you and you can't afford to pay back the bank. What's the bank going to do? Let it go?

Same situation, you get laid off?

Same situation, you get transfered but you are so up-side-down on your house you can't afford to sell?

Not arbitrady. Yes it's just TV. But when people sign a CONTRACT they MUST live up to their end of the bargain.

See ya
Tony

[bills976]

Originally posted by TNGTony


Not arbitrady. Yes it's just TV. But when people sign a CONTRACT they MUST live up to their end of the bargain.

See ya
Tony

I totally agree with you, but I'd like to add one thing. Dish is perhaps the most unfriendly company to terminate service with. Their billing practices are borderline slimeball. You have to jump through hoops to get a problem with your bill fixed, and God help you if you have Credit Card Autopay. On top of that, they don't refund partial months if you decide to leave after your contract ends. It isn't illegal... it just isn't very customer friendly.

[HTguy]

Originally posted by shilton
...he had to move and at his new apartment, Dish came out and said there is no way to connect him there since he cannot get good clear signal to the satellite.


1st of all, having had the system for a while your friend should know that the dish antenna has to have an unobstucted view to the satellite positions. All he really had to do was see what direction the dish was aiming and choose a new domocile in which the dish could be placed in similar position with respect to aiming. If he wasn't smart enough to even think of this he doesn't get my sympathy vote.

The fact is that E* will lose a lot of money on this guy even if he pays the penalty he agreed to for getting the installation & all the equipment for nothing. It really amazes me that people can't figure out how much the new equipment & installation costs are subsidized and how large the customer aquisition costs are to the DBS companies. I guess if it's "free" the intellectually challanged amongst us will always figure it means it isn't worth anything. And, for that matter, that contracts don't mean what they say either.

But having said all that, I would never take one "DISH" installer's word for it that he can't get a signal if he isn't capable of doing a rudimentary site survey himself.

Tell your friend to call a reputable local independent satellite specialist in his area & ask them if they are willing to take on a Dishmover for him & see if they can find LOS for the antenna. Good inependent pros are often capable of mounting a dish successfully that DNSC & RSP installers are too lazy and/or ignorant to do.

They may charge a little extra if they didn't set your friend up in the 1st place because the Dishmover promo is break even or worse for a retailer. But if they can do it it wiil be a lot cheaper that the D/C penalty & your friend may still get the benefit of keeping DNW on & ongoing.

[Jacob S]

Agreed with HTGuy. I have went to houses where other installers said there was no possibility of a signal and got nearly a perfect signal without any additional complaints. They come out and charge you so much to tell you that you cannot get a signal in when in fact they can but they are too lazy to do so because they make more money on another install somewhere else that would not take as long.

They sometimes just dont want to take the time to do it and figure on making more money just telling you the signal will not come in. Sometimes they think it cannot come in when it can. What you need to look for are trees, how close to the apartment they are, if the trees are on a hill and how high the trees are. Also you should see if the trees are in the southwest direction since that is where the satellite signal is coming from.

This is not always the case though. I try to do anything possible to get a signal in even if it takes me all day because it is a goal to get the customer tv no matter what it takes. I know I would hate to be without tv and can understand some people's situation where they cannot get out much and/or have children and there not being much to do out in the country.

[shilton]

Man oh man...I am getting sorry I ever asked this question in the first place. What I want to know is who pissed in whose Corn Flakes??? You are all touchy about this. Perhaps I should explain the rest. My friend did carfefully select an apartment with the correct view and his installer took a look first to say "yes it should work". It was only after he moved in that they discovered the trees are too thick and there is no signal without cutting a few down which obviously his landlord would not allow.
Still, I will recommend to him to call another installer for a 2nd opinion. In the meantime, I am told that someone from Dish Corp. offices is due to call him back to discuss the whole situation. I guess we shall have to wait and see. I too believe a contract is a contract, but people do mess up too and if an installer said he's get signal and he can't, I think maybe the installer needs to eat the disconnect fees. Anyway, thanks for all the input.

[jerryez]

Originally posted by shilton
Man oh man...I am getting sorry I ever asked this question in the first place. What I want to know is who pissed in whose Corn Flakes??? You are all touchy about this.

Just because people do not agree with you does not make them touchy. Most of the responses that I have seen seem to be responsive and have good suggestions. Maybe YOU are the touchy one.

[shilton]

Originally posted by jerryez


Just because people do not agree with you does not make them touchy. Most of the responses that I have seen seem to be responsive and have good suggestions. Maybe YOU are the touchy one.
My only point was that people automatically assumed that this guy moved to a new apartment with no consideration as to how and where his dish should point. He in fact, did do that and he relied on the advise of his original installer who said "yes I can do that" only to be told later no I can't. I was just surprised to see so many people jump to a conclusion and blame this guy for not thinking when he did.
I obviously value the input of persons on this forum or I wouldn't use it. I just didn't agree with how quick people were to criticize without knowing all the details...that is all. Sorry if my comment offended anyone.

[DCSholtis]

Originally posted by shilton
Man oh man...I am getting sorry I ever asked this question in the first place. What I want to know is who pissed in whose Corn Flakes???

UGhhhhhhhhh dude Im eating Corn Flakes right now as I type...Thanks alot....:D

[Jacob S]

This reminds me of a satellite meter in which does not need the voltage of a satellite receiver to see if there is a signal coming in or not. If a retailer/installer had one of those then he could check with a dish, tripod, a piece of wire, and a signal meter that has a battery pack in which should be a simple task. The only question is which satellite the signal meter is receiving. Some do indicate which satellite you are receiving.

What I am thinking may have happened was that it may have looked like the signal could have come in before the trees grew all of their leaves and when the leaves grew out it may then block the signal. Every install that I have done in which the leaves have blocked the signal were able to be relocated to get a signal in again. This does not happen very often though as I try to get the signal in where it will not be blocked in the future.

[nicepants]

I just moved into an apartment. I specifically told the manager that I needed an apartment with exposure for a dish network dish. Well we moved in and when the tech came out to install it he said that we didn't have line of sight. I asked him about the contract issue and he said that all I would have to do is call customer service and they'd not only cancel my contract but I wouldn't be charged for my time without service.

I plan on keeping the service though. He told me that if I could build something that made the dish stick out from my balcony about 4 feet then i'd be able to pick up the signal from both birds. The apartment complex manager said he'd seen someone do that before. Anyone here ever set up one like that.

[Jacob S]

You could get a higher elevation instead of sticking it out 4 feet although I dont know how high up you would have to make it.

[CrankyYankee]

Think about it this way too. Dish or Direct want you as a customer for as long as possible,so they sell you the equipment at a cost not much more than what it cost them to manufacture it.
This encourages you to keep the contract to get your money's worth. Remember, Primestar? That was generally a lease-the-equipment deal, and when a customer left all of a sudden, Primestar was many times out a receiver! Unless the P* customer was moving to a place where they could get a signal and wanted to keep the service, the leased received many times just got tossed! The same thing with cable companies. It costs $$$ when customers leave town and don't return the cable box.
I don't know how many of those things I've seen in flea markets and yard sales, just waiting to be bought and hacked.

[Lightnin1]

This is the exact reason I won't sell to anyone that doesn't own there home. Selling to people that rent is a chargeback nightmare plus a 50 car train wreck waiting to happen.

Your friend signed a contract agreeing to keep the service for 365 consecutive days, and he should abide by that agreement, pay the early termination fee, or find a way to make it work at the current location, it's that simple:confused:

[Jacob S]

You got that right. I had a renter promise me that he would keep it on a year and I bent over backwards for the man and his wife. They still voided my contract, would not keep it on the remainder of the year, work with me, or anything, and said they did not have to keep it on and would not even give me my hardware back (its mine if they do not keep it on a year even if they pay for it seeing that they more than likely will not pay me anyways). If someone rents then they are less likely to afford to pay their bills if they do not own their home and have to rent it. Thats not to say that all renters do not pay their bills because that is not the case, just a higher risk. I have even had a rented customer give me the whole system when she moved and I did not even ask for it.

[shilton]

Originally posted by Jacob S
You got that right. I had a renter promise me that he would keep it on a year and I bent over backwards for the man and his wife. They still voided my contract, would not keep it on the remainder of the year, work with me, or anything, and said they did not have to keep it on and would not even give me my hardware back (its mine if they do not keep it on a year even if they pay for it seeing that they more than likely will not pay me anyways). If someone rents then they are less likely to afford to pay their bills if they do not own their home and have to rent it. Thats not to say that all renters do not pay their bills because that is not the case, just a higher risk. I have even had a rented customer give me the whole system when she moved and I did not even ask for it.
I would like to mention that I manage rental properties and you may be very surprised to know that according to recent US statistics, more persons are choosing to rent BY CHOICE. They can afford homes, they just don't want all the upkeep and ongoing expense when they can just write a check monthly to the landlord and he takes care of it for them. Renters are NOT BAD PEOPLE. Please do not second-guess everyone based upon your own bad experiences. I rent 240 apartments and believe it or not, we collect 100% of the rent money every single month. These are responsible people who do want to pay their bills. I would say a safe bet for an installer is to ask for the lease. If there's a year or more left, you have a safe bet. If not, maybe you do reject the install but realize of course that Dish will just reassign it to someone else which may mean lost money for you anyway. That's just my perspective anyhow.
On the up side, I am happy to report that my friend has been informed by Dish that IF his landlord refuses to allow them to mount on the roof (high enough to clear the trees), they will take his stuff back and call it even and yes, he is willing to turn the equipment over to them, so it may be a happy ending after all.

[Claude Greiner]

This issue really pisses me off, you signed a 1 year contract to keep the service. Its not Dishnetworks fault you decided to move and can't get a line of site. Pay the cancellation fee, or downgrade your service for the remainder of your contract!

When you signed the contract it stated.....

If you change residence, you are still bound to the terms and conditions of this agreement.

[HTguy]

Originally posted by shilton

My only point was that people automatically assumed that this guy moved to a new apartment with no consideration as to how and where his dish should point. He in fact, did do that and he relied on the advise of his original installer who said "yes I can do that" only to be told later no I can't. I was just surprised to see so many people jump to a conclusion and blame this guy for not thinking when he did.
I obviously value the input of persons on this forum or I wouldn't use it. I just didn't agree with how quick people were to criticize without knowing all the details...that is all. Sorry if my comment offended anyone.
Sheeeeesh!

If you had mentioned any of this in your 1st post we obviously wouldn't have "piled on" your friend. You left the impression that he simply moved into a new apartment without any due diligence about mounting a dish & then wanted a way out of his contract. Now you chastise us for being critical without knowing all the details. :rolleyes:

If your friend happened to see this thread please give him my congratulations for working it out with DISH and my apology for any implication that he might have been intellectually "challenged."

[Jacob S]

>>Thats not to say that all renters do not pay their bills because that is not the case, just a higher risk.

I was saying that it was higher risk based upon what other retailers have told me, not based on my own experiences but I had said that trusting their judgement and situations they have had in the past.

I was also not saying that your friend could not afford the Dish bill, and I am not second guessing anyone and had no intentions on doing so. Sorry for upsetting or making anyone mad, that was also not my intention.

[harsh]

You might want to check the news wires about the recent class action against Echostar. Thirteen states Attorneys General won a decision regarding such situations and the decision may be of significant help to your friend.

[Jacob S]

These class action against Echostar does not pertain to getting money back due to situations like this, but to other situations. Dish wanted to just pay them off to keep their mouths shut and to not have a bad name for themselves.

[BobMurdoch]

Try to find a friend who doesn't have DBS and convince him to take your account and you kick in to defray the cost. That might be another way to minimize the expense.

[Jacob S]

Is the system leased or owned? How many receivers?

[harsh]

Jason,

Regarding the class action, there are a couple of escape clauses. There is a simple one that says that if you decide to opt out, you can get away with paying out the remainder of your contract (which is more than the $240 in this case).

There is quite a bit of language that seems to speak specifically to mitigating circumstances like disability or relocation.

http://www.doj.state.or.us/releases/rel052203.htm

If this press release is in error, I'd like to know about it.