vip922 - what is the code base for this? [Archive]

RVRambler

06-27-09, 05:04 PM

Is the code base for this known (722?)?

How buggy was the code base?

What are experiences with the vip922?

Is the 'sling' function a unnecessary complication if you think it may/will not be used by the user, IOW, is the 922 superior to another rcvr if 'sling' is not your thing or better to go with a lesser rcvr and add external HDD?

Thanks!!

Ron Barry

06-27-09, 06:12 PM

Right now the only people that know that would be the Beta Testers and my understanding is that these people are under NDA. I would suspect that the only people that actually know what the code base is based on would be the Engineerings at Echostar, but I would suspect that there is code used from the Vip DVR line.

In terms of reliability, it is anyone's guess and if history is an indicator the 922 will release and will take some time to stabilize as it has happened with other receivers.

P Smith

06-27-09, 08:57 PM

Yes, same base plus a lot of JAVA apps.

Stewart Vernon

06-27-09, 10:45 PM

Yes, same base plus a lot of JAVA apps.

How do you know?

Ron Barry

06-27-09, 11:16 PM

Yes... I would like to know that too. Is this speculation P. Smith or is there some official Dish press release indicating so because I am not familiar with any?

phrelin

06-27-09, 11:27 PM

The "big picture" overview couldn't be too complicated. The two devices being stitched together already have code and more or less work, and both work on line. It's just the "stitching" that's being created.

Or they could have assembled a bunch of hardware and started writing code from the beginning....

ChuckA

06-28-09, 07:07 AM

I believe the 922 will have a lot more new than just stitching to hold together the 722 code and the SLING code. There was a tech article in the Dallas Morning News a week or so back, on the design of new user interfaces and how the remotes are changing. There was a picture of the 922 remote with the article. It is very different having a touch pad, no key pad and a trigger on the underside for Select. From this new remote alone I think the 922 will be a very different box with a completely new UI.

With that much new code I would suspect (just my personal guess) there will be a fair number of issues for a while after it is released.

P Smith

06-28-09, 06:28 PM

GUI is not an attribute of new codebase.

Ron Barry

06-29-09, 10:20 AM

GUI is not an attribute of new codebase.

Really? Boy.. Given that is what I do for a living I would have a hard time seeing where a new GUI widget set or even building custom UI components would not effect the codebase. I would expect it to be a big attribute of the new 922 codebase but then again I am a front end developer and would not be suprised that a low level developer might see things a big different.

Anyway... I am still wondering where you got the information that the Dish 922 codebase is the same as the 722 with the addition of some Java applets which would mean the 922 now has a Java VM in it which opens up a lot of possibilities. Hopefully it support JavaFx.

ChuckA

06-29-09, 10:40 AM

I'm with you Ron. I'm more of a back end developer myself but replacing a basic multi-level menu command driven system with a touch pad mouse pointer GUI makes me think of wholesale code changes that will not be back fitted to the older receivers. That is a new code base in my book. I agree the basic rendering of video and audio and making recordings does not have to change but I'd guess (Just my guess) there is at least as much code involved in the UI than the core engine.

phrelin

06-29-09, 10:58 AM

Really? Boy.. Given that is what I do for a living I would have a hard time seeing where a new GUI widget set or even building custom UI components would not effect the codebase. I would expect it to be a big attribute of the new 922 codebase but then again I am a front end developer and would not be suprised that a low level developer might see things a big different.

Anyway... I am still wondering where you got the information that the Dish 922 codebase is the same as the 722 with the addition of some Java applets which would mean the 922 now has a Java VM in it which opens up a lot of possibilities. Hopefully it support JavaFx.Hopefully it works reliably.:sure:

I recognize they want to be able to provide some of the online interface to downward at least 722k users, so I would guess some of the interface will have to be integrated into the DVR codebase. But I'm assuming that many features will just become part of the Sling system, again with code "stitching" the DVR and Sling together.

Surely they wouldn't be creating all new code for the 922, unless of course they're trying to avoid the whole TiVo thing.:eek2:

Ron Barry

06-29-09, 11:15 AM

Nope.. I don't think anyone is stating that the 922 contains all new code. I am sure we would all be in agreement that code reuse is happening with the 922. My personal opinion is that I don't think it is just the 722 base code with Java Applets on top. I would have a hard time believing that the 722 base code was structure that way and even it it was I doubt it would be as simple as slapping on some Applets though in my career I have hard comments like this from low level developers when they try and simplify UI development.

Pherlin. Where did you hear that they plan on integrating some of the 922 online capabilities to the 722K? I have not heard that but I could see this happening as Dish has done that in the past. They tend to build a feature on one DVR(Shows up on the 612 for example) and then port it over to the others. Though, given the differences in the 922 and the 722K that I have seen in demos I have my doubts there.

phrelin

06-29-09, 02:32 PM

Where did you hear that they plan on integrating some of the 922 online capabilities to the 722K?You would ask. I read it somewhere. I vaguely remember it had to do with creating an online interface which had something to do with Dish making money. Of course, it could have been speculation. I'll try to find it.

P Smith

06-29-09, 02:51 PM

"which would mean the 922 now has a Java VM" - that's correct point.

harsh

06-29-09, 03:03 PM

I'm more of a back end developer myself but replacing a basic multi-level menu command driven system with a touch pad mouse pointer GUI makes me think of wholesale code changes that will not be back fitted to the older receivers.This may work well for your programming efforts, but with consumer electronics equipment, there's a great deal of motivation to be able to adapt interfaces across the entire product line. As such, the interface(s) are often standalone modules just like any other major subsystem.

While this is often a major headache on the Macintosh and Windows platforms due to their decided lack of platform independence, it is comparatively trivial on other platforms where the same core functionality might be expected to run under multiple interfaces.

ChuckA

06-29-09, 03:29 PM

I agree software is usually built with modular designs, so in theory what you say is correct. However, when the original design is created you really don't know what is coming in the future so it is a best guess effort. And it hardly ever works out. Backend changes are still required because no one expects what turns out to be reality in future years.

Stewart Vernon

06-29-09, 04:57 PM

If they are smart (and I suspect they are smart) I'm sure they do try to make things modular... and reusable perhaps through conditional compiling to other platforms.

Some things might not make sense, though... so while I have no inner knowledge at all, it wouldn't surprise me if the 922 was a complete re-design from the ground up OR if it had a lot of common code from the 622/722 platform. Ultimately, my knowledge of it one way or the other won't affect how quickly it comes to the public or how well it works.

Not sure if it means anything or not... but there had also been speculation, with the 922 including Sling capabilities, of whether or not existing 622/722/722K receivers might one day be updated to act as Sling-catchers. That would be cool if it ever happened, and might lend credibility to speculation over more common codebase.

But I'm not sure that is anything other than wishful thinking... though I'd certainly like it if it ever came true.

search4it

07-11-09, 12:12 PM

for the Tivo vs. Dish issues, and after playing with the new Vip922. It feels and looks like a brand new concept. I believe the 922 is new from the ground up.

I am still curious what charlie is going to charge for this unit. I have a hard time thinking it is going to be a free upgrade even for new customers with all the functions this new unit has. :nono:

P Smith

07-11-09, 12:45 PM

"It feels and looks like a brand new concept" - that's the catch for attract more customers - GUI. But if you'll look into Linux inside ... Just compare versions from 722 and 922.

Stewart Vernon

07-11-09, 10:54 PM

P Smith

07-12-09, 12:16 AM

He just kicking tires :) - see his second post: "Beta testing...hmm. It has been interesting."

Stewart Vernon

07-12-09, 02:02 PM

He just kicking tires :) - see his second post: "Beta testing...hmm. It has been interesting."

If he is a beta tester (as opposed to someone who saw the demo at CES) then he shouldn't be posting on a public forum about his experiences.

HobbyTalk

07-12-09, 05:07 PM

There are many posts about the 922 testing on other forums.

Ron Barry

07-12-09, 05:20 PM

Just because there are posts on other forums regarding testing of the 922 and their experiences does not make it right. Hopefully people doing this are not violating any agreement and I would recommend anyone you happens to get close to a 922 enough to give it a spin to make sure they are not violating anything their company or themselves agreed to when being handed one.

HobbyTalk

07-12-09, 08:58 PM

I didn't say anything is right or wrong, just pointing it out. But it is interesting that a forum that has some close company contacts within Echostar has a full forum dedicated to 922 beta testing viewable to the public.

Ron Barry

07-12-09, 10:03 PM

True HobbyTalk you didn't and I did and apologize if I was insinuating that you did. I was just throwing my 2 cents in also...

BobaBird

07-13-09, 04:39 PM

Beta testing is open to dealers who attended Team Summit. IIRC, it can be on display in their showroom which makes it at least semi-public. I have no idea what the terms of the NDA are, or if there is one.