The age old question: How to get recordings from my DVR to the computer?

[twojulybabies]

Hi all, I have searched and searched (for old threads and scoured the internet), but honestly, most of the info is so old. Technology advances all the time, so even things from a year ago can be very outdated. I decided to post here because this seems to be the most relevant and of the threads I have read, you guys seem to have a handle on it all! Here's what I have:

HR20 and HR21. I have recordings on both that need to be archived asap. I would like to get them on a computer hard drive and eventually burn some DVD's.

I have a 6 month old laptop (Vista) with multiple ports available (USB, eSATA, HDMI, etc.). I also have a desktop (XP Pro) with Media Center. Both have video capture cards and I assume I have all the needed hardware.

I know the USB ports on the DVR's are input only. What about the HDMI? I picked up an HDMI cable today and have the laptop connected to the DVR.

Now what?

I assume I have to transfer in "live time". I'll do that if I have to.

Please guide me as what to do next and let me know what options are available.

Thanks!!

[jdspencer]

You'll need a video capture device (either internal or external) in the computer and then do a real time playback.

Make the appropriate connections (usually s-video or yellow composite and the red/white audio). Set the computer to record from the capture device and then press play on the DVR. You won't get an HD recording.

[twojulybabies]

Both computers I mentioned have video capture cards. I watch regular TV on them already.

I guess the initial problem I'm having is that the laptop does not "recognize" the DVR box. Does this make sense? I am using an HDMI cable to both. If I could "view" the recorded media (from the DVR) on the laptop, then I could simply hit the "record" button in Movie Maker, etc.

[veryoldschool]

While this isn't cheap, it seems to work: http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html

[veryoldschool]

Both computers I mentioned have video capture cards. I watch regular TV on them already.

I guess the initial problem I'm having is that the laptop does not "recognize" the DVR box. Does this make sense? I am using an HDMI cable to both. If I could "view" the recorded media (from the DVR) on the laptop, then I could simply hit the "record" button in Movie Maker, etc.
The only way I've been able to use a video capture card is with SD output/inputs, and play the recording from the DVR and capture it in realtime [2 hour movie takes two hours]. I can then edit it and burn it to DVD.

[inkahauts]

Both computers I mentioned have video capture cards. I watch regular TV on them already.

I guess the initial problem I'm having is that the laptop does not "recognize" the DVR box. Does this make sense? I am using an HDMI cable to both. If I could "view" the recorded media (from the DVR) on the laptop, then I could simply hit the "record" button in Movie Maker, etc.

That HDMI on your laptop may be an output only port for AV.... What is it actually labeled on the computer? And do you have composite or other inputs that are labeled as inputs n these computers?

You should use one of those inputs.. and then see if you can bring up the feed and watch it real time...

BY the way, what are you archiving? Some programs may not let yet archive to another device no matter what.. Just an FYI...

[twojulybabies]

While this isn't cheap, it seems to work: []http://www.hauppauge.com/site /products/data_hdpvr.[]

I saw this earlier today. if I read correctly, it will only work for "future" recordings, not the ones I already have. If that is the only route.....perhaps a DVD recorder would be cheaper.

I would rather store on a hard drive rather than have a bunch of disks laying around. On that note, I saw the thread about SATA hard drives, that may be the way to go (in the future for me).

[veryoldschool]

I saw this earlier today. if I read correctly, it will only work for "future" recordings, not the ones I already have. If that is the only route.....perhaps a DVD recorder would be cheaper.

I would rather store on a hard drive rather than have a bunch of disks laying around. On that note, I saw the thread about SATA hard drives, that may be the way to go (in the future for me).
I don't think it's true. How would it know the difference between streaming "live" and streaming off the hard drive. "It's still streaming".

[twojulybabies]

That HDMI on your laptop may be an output only port for AV.... What is it actually labeled on the computer? And do you have composite or other inputs that are labeled as inputs n these computers?

You should use one of those inputs.. and then see if you can bring up the feed and watch it real time...

BY the way, what are you archiving? Some programs may not let yet archive to another device no matter what.. Just an FYI...

I guess I'll have to check the specs and see what the inputs are. I know the desktop uses a coax for TV input (possibly others), because when I had cable service, that is the port i used to watch TV on it. No component cable inputs on either computer.

Hubby has a bazillion races stored - IRL, F1, etc. There are some minor programs like when I was on TV, a Buffalo Bills game or two, but mostly races. He has both boxes full!!

[twojulybabies]

I don't think it's true. How would it know the difference between streaming "live" and streaming off the hard drive. "It's still streaming".


True, true.

[twojulybabies]

Here's the specs on the laptop. No firewire I guess.
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c01566768&cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN

[Riot Nrrrd™]

I have the Hauppauge HD PVR 1212. It records anything coming in off your Component outputs (or S-Video, etc.). It can record your existing shows, just go to them and press Play on the DirecTV HD DVR and click "Record" on the app you use with the HD PVR.

I say this with some bitterness as I had not yet migrated my I-never-get-around-to-watching-these recorded shows on my HR21-200 over to the HD PVR 1212, and, sure enough, Father Murphy anoited me with a dead hard drive a couple of days ago. :mad: :bang

[mdavej]

If your ultimate goal is to archive to DVD, nothing beats the low price or simplicity of a DVD recorder. I've archived hundreds of shows from my HR2x that way. The PQ is excellent on HD sources (even though it's downrezzed to SD). Looks as good as a commercial DVD. I've gotten all my recorders second hand for less than $100 (sometimes much less) and never had a problem. And I don't have to deal with the extra hassles of a PC (capturing, converting, editing, encoding, burning, etc., etc.). I just push play on the HR and record on the DVDR and go to bed. When I get up in the morning, I have a DVD, and it only took 5 minutes of my time.

[veryoldschool]

Here's the specs on the laptop. No firewire I guess.
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c01566768&cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN
Even if it had firewire, there is no firewire on the DVR.

[davidjplatt]

The Hauppauge 1212 HD-PVR has inputs for S-Video, composite video and component video.

The HRxx DVR boxes have component output - that is always active. If you play a recorded program or watch a live program, the HD-PVR can capture in real time. It captures an HD stream.

A DVD Recorder does not capture HD - it records in 480i.

The HD-PVR captures in 720p or 1080i. The nice thing is you can burn a regular DVD in AVCHD format and it plays in just about original HD quality on a BluRay player. Up to two hours of 5Mb/s video will fit on a 4.7GB DVD. That just happens to be the same as the bit rate of MP4 (DirecTVs primary HD transport format).

Usually HDMI connections on laptops are output only so if the laptop has an HD tuner or BluRay drive, it can ouput to a TV.

[mjreaves53]

I second the motion of using a DVD recorder. I am on my second recorder and have 100s of movies recorded. I actually have so many I created a DVD database to track the movies and all relative data.

If you are interested in my database, let me know and I will send you a link to my online demo.

[cover]

I've been hesitant to get a DVD recorder because of mixed reviews. Which brands and models have you guys used successfully? Which would be your top recommendations?

[mdavej]

A DVD Recorder does not capture HD - it records in 480i.

The HD-PVR captures in 720p or 1080i. The nice thing is you can burn a regular DVD in AVCHD format and it plays in just about original HD quality on a BluRay player.
Understood. All excellent points. I'd love to get a Hauppauge and do just that. I've put several AVCHD files on DVD and played them on my bluray. Works beautifully. However, in my case, the price/hassle factor is too high for me, and the AVCHD DVDs won't play in a standard DVD player. So SD DVD is good enough for me until the price on the Hauppauge comes down and I get some more bluray players in my house, car, laptop, etc. to take advantage of AVCHD.

I've been hesitant to get a DVD recorder because of mixed reviews. Which brands and models have you guys used successfully? Which would be your top recommendations?
They all have problems, but for occasional archiving, most are fine. Heavy users seem to suffer most of the problems. My toshiba was the most trouble-free but lacked flex recording mode (a must with D*'s automatic padding pushing all your recording a couple of minutes over the standard 1hr, 2hr, etc. recording speeds). My polaroid (made by philips) was nice, but the PQ was a little sub-par. I've had several panasonics and they are my favorite by far. The PQ is excellent, and the flex recording (FR) mode is wonderful. FR is where you set it to record any length of time and it does it at the max quality. If you need to record 2hr5min on other recorders, you have to jump up to 4 hr mode (which generally sucks). On the panny it'll do exactly 2:05 in that case at near 2hr quality. The downside is that bad media can make some of them lock up, so that's the only issue I've had to deal with on those, even then only rarely. Another good choice is the philips/magnavox HDD unit if you want to do much editing.

You may ask if they're so great, why have I had so many? It's only that I keep my eye out for good used ones and upgrade often to get the latest features (digital tuners, upconversion, divx, etc.).

[dreadlk]

And that's the big problem with the 1212, I bet 95% of people who own one Archive one or two shows then never use it again. The software for the 1212 is absolute crap! It's clunky and hard to use, requires monitoring the recording to stop it and sometimes will make you waste 2 hours to only find out the recording is bad.

I got one but would not recommend it, even with all the add on homebrew batch files. It is great hardware with poor software and after 1 year still no relief. Maybe one day Hauppauge will fix the software, till then it's not worth it.




I have the Hauppauge HD PVR 1212. It records anything coming in off your Component outputs (or S-Video, etc.). It can record your existing shows, just go to them and press Play on the DirecTV HD DVR and click "Record" on the app you use with the HD PVR.

I say this with some bitterness as I had not yet migrated my I-never-get-around-to-watching-these recorded shows on my HR21-200 over to the HD PVR 1212, and, sure enough, Father Murphy anoited me with a dead hard drive a couple of days ago. :mad: :bang

[ColdCase]

+1 on the Panasonics. I have a DMR-HS2. Put about 6 hours of video on a DVD using its flex mode. I have a pretty complete home computer video editing system, but for simply archiving SD video from the DVR or old VHS tapes... its easier just to use the HS2.

With all the copy protection overhead on HD video, I doubt if any high quality HD dubbing systems will be available to the honest man for years.

[andunn27]

So my brother seems to think this is illegal to transfer recordings off your DVR to physical media? How can this be illegal when my Directivo upstairs gives me the ability to transfer recordings to tape or DVD with a couple of button pushes?

[slimoli]

And that's the big problem with the 1212, I bet 95% of people who own one Archive one or two shows then never use it again. The software for the 1212 is absolute crap! It's clunky and hard to use, requires monitoring the recording to stop it and sometimes will make you waste 2 hours to only find out the recording is bad.

I got one but would not recommend it, even with all the add on homebrew batch files. It is great hardware with poor software and after 1 year still no relief. Maybe one day Hauppauge will fix the software, till then it's not worth it.

I use my 1212 every day. Record on HR22-100 and dump to the 1212 using the time limit on the capture module. Software is simple but works and AVCHD look great on my PS3 or Panasonic BD30. I also use Vegas to edit the raw .TS file , which is great.

[veryoldschool]

So my brother seems to think this is illegal to transfer recordings off your DVR to physical media? How can this be illegal when my Directivo upstairs gives me the ability to transfer recordings to tape or DVD with a couple of button pushes?
On a cable DVR I could use the firewire and get a digital copy of an HD show. HBO, SHO, etc. would not playback thought.
Analog recording seems to fall under the "analog loophole", since the copyright law is the digital copyright law. VCRs can copy recordings for legal proposes, but are in SD. All HD starts out as digital, but component outputs are analog, so if an HD tuner can record analog, it's not a digital copy. DirecTV does have Macrovision copy protection in the HD receivers and may use it to safeguard HD content from the analog outputs.

[TomCat]

...The software for the 1212 is absolute crap! It's clunky and hard to use, requires monitoring the recording to stop it and sometimes will make you waste 2 hours to only find out the recording is bad.

I got one but would not recommend it, even with all the add on homebrew batch files. It is great hardware with poor software and after 1 year still no relief. Maybe one day Hauppauge will fix the software, till then it's not worth it.I don't think you need to use the bundled software. Hauppauge lists at least 5 3rd-party sources, all of which are probably better than the bundled software. Those of us with Macs, for instance, could not use the bundled software anyway, and would have to opt for something like EyeTV 3.15 or something along that line. But then thats another 80 clams, upping the price of a 1212 system to $330 (not including BR player).

[CCarncross]

On a cable DVR I could use the firewire and get a digital copy of an HD show. HBO, SHO, etc. would not playback thought.


Most cable companies disable the firewire, you must be in a market where they have idiots running the store..

:lol:

[veryoldschool]

Most cable companies disable the firewire, you must be in a market where they have idiots running the store..

:lol:
It was two years ago and "yes" they were. :)

[twojulybabies]

My update:
I broke down and bought the Hauppage 1212. I came today, so I will get it hooked up shortly and start recording.....all weekend!

Here's how I based my decision (for future readers) - I wanted to "keep" the old programs but didn't want a bunch of DVD's around. I have an external hard drive that I plan to store everything on and then make the occassional DVD. According to the info, the editing software (which has mixed reviews), will allow me to edit out the commercials, etc. A traditional DVD burner won't "really" let me do that simply. I also love the fact that I can record in a video quality that will preserve as much of the hi-def picture as possible. I like that I can make Blu-Ray discs for use on the PS3. The features presented outweighed the decision to get a DVD burner when I considered value/cost.

I did price out a Toshiba DVD $119, which had some good reviews, but ran into a lot of feedback in regards to where the DVD would play. Also its limited features maded the 1212 a better value.

I found Amazon had it the cheapest at $194, but there was a special bundle available for $195 which had an optical cable and an HDMI cable (from another merchant). For the dollar difference, come on - you can never have enough optical and HDMI cables!!!! Especially for that cheap.

Lastly, I plan to use my Vista laptop as the gateway for the external hard drive. The Hauppage is more portable for me at the moment to empty out both DVR's. Once I get rid of both DVR's and go with a new company (unfortunately), I will only have to get one DVR since it won't have a problem "filling up". That will save me $11 a month. :)


/ramble

[Stanley Kritzik]

On a cable DVR I could use the firewire and get a digital copy of an HD show. HBO, SHO, etc. would not playback thought.
Analog recording seems to fall under the "analog loophole", since the copyright law is the digital copyright law. VCRs can copy recordings for legal proposes, but are in SD. All HD starts out as digital, but component outputs are analog, so if an HD tuner can record analog, it's not a digital copy. DirecTV does have Macrovision copy protection in the HD receivers and may use it to safeguard HD content from the analog outputs.

I had an instance where my DVD burner said the movie couldn't be copied. However, I had a Sima gadget and hooked it up s-video, and it all worked. The Sima device defeated the protection. Now, Macrovision won a court case against Sima, and the device is no longer on the market. When I realized this, I panicked, 'cause I like to have spares. So, I went on e-bay and found another one -- new, and never used.

My copying is only for my own archival purposes -- I'm not distributing anything to anyone -- and it is handy to free up disk space.

Stan

[veryoldschool]

I had an instance where my DVD burner said the movie couldn't be copied. However, I had a Sima gadget and hooked it up s-video, and it all worked. The Sima device defeated the protection. Now, Macrovision won a court case against Sima, and the device is no longer on the market. When I realized this, I panicked, 'cause I like to have spares. So, I went on e-bay and found another one -- new, and never used.

My copying is only for my own archival purposes -- I'm not distributing anything to anyone -- and it is handy to free up disk space.

Stan
:lol:
Ah yes, the old Video "stabilizer". I have one "somewhere". [wonder if three of them would work on the component video for HD] ;)

[bpratt]

My update:
I broke down and bought the Hauppage 1212. I came today, so I will get it hooked up shortly and start recording.....all weekend!

Here's how I based my decision (for future readers) - I wanted to "keep" the old programs but didn't want a bunch of DVD's around. I have an external hard drive that I plan to store everything on and then make the occassional DVD. According to the info, the editing software (which has mixed reviews), will allow me to edit out the commercials, etc. A traditional DVD burner won't "really" let me do that simply. I also love the fact that I can record in a video quality that will preserve as much of the hi-def picture as possible. I like that I can make Blu-Ray discs for use on the PS3. The features presented outweighed the decision to get a DVD burner when I considered value/cost.

I did price out a Toshiba DVD $119, which had some good reviews, but ran into a lot of feedback in regards to where the DVD would play. Also its limited features maded the 1212 a better value.

I found Amazon had it the cheapest at $194, but there was a special bundle available for $195 which had an optical cable and an HDMI cable (from another merchant). For the dollar difference, come on - you can never have enough optical and HDMI cables!!!! Especially for that cheap.

Lastly, I plan to use my Vista laptop as the gateway for the external hard drive. The Hauppage is more portable for me at the moment to empty out both DVR's. Once I get rid of both DVR's and go with a new company (unfortunately), I will only have to get one DVR since it won't have a problem "filling up". That will save me $11 a month. :)


/ramble
Good luck with your Hauppage 1212. I have had one for several months now and it does a fairly good job. I don't understand why Amazon would bundle an HDMI cable with the 1212 since it doesn't have an HDMI port, only component. I also believe you were misinformed about editing software because none comes with the 1212. I have been looking for a good .ts editor so I can edit out commercials for some time. I finally purchased a product called "TempGenc Authoring Works 4" which has the ability to edit the .ts files however it then creates either a DVD or a BD image. You can copy the BD image to a regular DVD and play it on a Blu ray player, but a regular DVD will only hold about 30 minutes using the 1212 default settings of 9mbps. I don't yet own a blu ray recorder mainly because the blank disks are still about $4 each. The DVD image is not HD but the quality is very good and you can get 2 hours on a standard DVD.
If you have a good graphics card on your system, you can use the software that is shipped with the 1212 to play the things you record on your PC at very good HD quality.

[rob5819]

I also believe you were misinformed about editing software because none comes with the 1212. I have been looking for a good .ts editor so I can edit out commercials for some time. .

I also have the Hauppage 1212. I use a free program appropriately named "H.264TS_Cutter" ( http://www.h264tscutter.de/show_artikel.php?id=5) to edit the captured video. I also thought that the software that came with it has an option for editing, Arcsoft Total Media Studio / Cutting Room, but I prefer the one I've been using.

[bpratt]

I also have the Hauppage 1212. I use a free program appropriately named "H.264TS_Cutter" ( http://www.h264tscutter.de/show_artikel.php?id=5) to edit the captured video. I also thought that the software that came with it has an option for editing, Arcsoft Total Media Studio / Cutting Room, but I prefer the one I've been using.

I have the latest version of H.264TS_Cutter but could never get it to work. When I try to load a .TS file that was recorded from my HR21-700 I get this message:

It seems in this TS is no IDR-Frame. It is necessary to set Cutin to I-Frame and Out Frame to B or even All-Frame.

It then gives me a second message:

Could not init. video playback
DS-Error
(Cannot play back the file. The format is not supported.)

I would love to have a .TS editor that works. Any suggestions?

[rob5819]

I have the latest version of H.264TS_Cutter but could never get it to work. When I try to load a .TS file that was recorded from my HR21-700 I get this message:

It seems in this TS is no IDR-Frame. It is necessary to set Cutin to I-Frame and Out Frame to B or even All-Frame.

It then gives me a second message:

Could not init. video playback
DS-Error
(Cannot play back the file. The format is not supported.)

I would love to have a .TS editor that works. Any suggestions?

Hmmm . . . I had the same message about the IDR-Frame so I changed Settings / Advanced/ CutIn and CutOut to the recommended I and B frames. I'm not much of an expert on video editing so I can't really explain the ramifications of changing the cutin/out frames, but it has worked reliably for me. I haven't seen the other message that you are having. I use a 3rd party app (rctvcap) to capture video instead of the Arcsoft software, but it should be the same format of ts file so I don't know why you are getting the 'not supported' message. When I open up a ts file to edit my computer launches ffdshow video decoder and haali media splitter, I've captured and edited hundreds of hours without problem. There is is a long thread at avsforum called "Hauppauge HDPVR-1212 Owner's Thread" that might have people with more knowledge than me to help.

[JonW]

VideoRedo is going to get H.264 support soon. It's in early testing right now.

It does commercial detection and edits without transcoding the video, and hopefully won't have the issues that h.264 ts cutter has, as it's a commercial product not a quick hack.

[dreadlk]

This is what i was talking about, the 1212 does not come with software that allows you to record and edit easily and reliably. It's a hit and miss affair and after a few misses, each of which took up hours of my time, I just end up letting the thing collect dust.

BTW
Hate to be the bearer of Bad news but have you guys who have archived shows watched every recordings from start to finish? I have read a few posts on other forums where people say that midway into a recording it often craps out and then may ressumes later, so your recordings may have gaps in them. When I think back, after reading those post that's the point when I stopped using my 1212.

[rob5819]

This is what i was talking about, the 1212 does not come with software that allows you to record and edit easily and reliably. It's a hit and miss affair and after a few misses, each of which took up hours of my time, I just end up letting the thing collect dust.

BTW
Hate to be the bearer of Bad news but have you guys who have archived shows watched every recordings from start to finish? I have read a few posts on other forums where people say that midway into a recording it often craps out and then may ressumes later, so your recordings may have gaps in them. When I think back, after reading those post that's the point when I stopped using my 1212.
That is definitely an issue with the default software that came with the 1212. Unfortunately the original software made your computer 'preview' the show while it was capturing it. If your computer was not up to to the task of decoding HD video your cpu would hit 100% and the recording would suffer, leading to gaps in the finished capture. The latest version of software allows you to turn off preview so that this is not as much of an issue and it does allow editing via Arcsoft / TME / Create AVCHD Movie / Cutting Room.

Of course, I use 3rd party software (rctvcap and h.264tscutter) and have not had a bad recording in the several hundred hours I have captured. I typically capture media and format it for a portable device to watch on a plane, at the gym, etc., and everything has worked so far. I had read all the negative posts before getting the 1212, but have been fairly pleased with it so far (about four months). The stuff that I leave HD looks great (when streamed via my PS3), the stuff that I transcode down to iPhone or Blackberry is good as well. I agree with you, it would be tough to recommend the 1212 to anyone else, but it has solved my problems (especially since a couple of my HRs have failed on me so I have been able to archive content prior to the failure and view it after a failed HR).