NFL Sunday Ticket Superfan SCAM

[progfx]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't ALL of the NFL games now broadcast in HD on Network TV? Especially since the recent digital broadcast mandate by the FCC eliminating all analog broadcasts. DTV must have to purposely degrade the signal to broadcast in SD quality if we don't pay the fee.

If so, then why are we being gouged for $99 just to receive the games in HD? Just another example of corporate greed. The NFL package is already price $100 higher than any of the other sports packages for far fewer games.

People need to band together and tell them no, we're not paying it! If enough people complain they will drop the charge.

[JoeTheDragon]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't ALL of the NFL games now broadcast in HD on Network TV? Especially since the recent digital broadcast mandate by the FCC eliminating all analog broadcasts. DTV must have to purposely degrade the signal to broadcast in SD quality if we don't pay the fee.

If so, then why are we being gouged for $99 just to receive the games in HD? Just another example of corporate greed. The NFL package is already price $100 higher than any of the other sports packages for far fewer games.

People need to band together and tell them no, we're not paying it! If enough people complain they will drop the charge.
they should make hd free and SF for game mix and the other stuff. Red zone should be on it's own as well.

Any ST needs to be in sd for all the non hd boxes out there.

[Msguy]

Well To Me The Red Zone Channel and the Game Mix Channels are Non Essential. I wish they would just focus on delivering us the Games each on their own seperate channel in the best quality HD they can instead of wasting the bandwidth for the Red Zone Channel and the Game Mix. That is just my opinion. I'm going to watch games and want the Full Screen.

[prushing]

Well To Me The Red Zone Channel and the Game Mix Channels are Non Essential. I wish they would just focus on delivering us the Games each on their own seperate channel in the best quality HD they can instead of wasting the bandwidth for the Red Zone Channel and the Game Mix. That is just my opinion. I'm going to watch games and want the Full Screen.

Problem is there are people who don't care about the actual games and only about their fantasy team. This is all geared towards them. I need to call in the next few days to start the process to get it free once again as I will not pay 2 HD fees.

[tbirds118]

Maybe I'm mis-understanding you but digital tv doesn't necessarily mean high definition.

[1980ws]

Maybe I'm mis-understanding you but digital tv doesn't necessarily mean high definition.

I think this is the biggest misunderstanding of the transition. Then folks think they have HD and wonder what all the fuss is about - it looks the same as before.

[paulman182]

I'm still waiting to hear about the "scam." :)

[hasan]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't ALL of the NFL games now broadcast in HD on Network TV? Especially since the recent digital broadcast mandate by the FCC eliminating all analog broadcasts. DTV must have to purposely degrade the signal to broadcast in SD quality if we don't pay the fee.

If so, then why are we being gouged for $99 just to receive the games in HD? Just another example of corporate greed. The NFL package is already price $100 higher than any of the other sports packages for far fewer games.

People need to band together and tell them no, we're not paying it! If enough people complain they will drop the charge.

There is only one signal being transmitted by each station. In most cases the major networks are transmitting an HD signal. Some minor networks are transmitting SD only. As noted, all signals are digital, most HD, some SD, and the FCC doesn't care which or what mix (in the case of sub-channels) a station is transmitting.

Paying for HD in the NFL-ST is an entirely different matter. When D* raised the prices quickly and consistently over several years, I finally dropped it. I have had NFL-ST since the first year it was offered on C band (BUD), but I dropped it last year...and guess what....I didn't miss it. If D* had kept the prices within reason, I would most likely, never had discovered how little it meant to me.

I get plenty of football on regular network, nfl-network and espn...all in HD.

[hasan]

I'm still waiting to hear about the "scam." :)

Me too. They offer a product for a price. The consumer chooses to buy it or not. I decided not to, after having it since day one on C band. No hard feelings, no scam, it just wasn't worth the price any longer (dropped it last year). I don't miss it.

[BattleZone]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't ALL of the NFL games now broadcast in HD on Network TV? Especially since the recent digital broadcast mandate by the FCC eliminating all analog broadcasts. DTV must have to purposely degrade the signal to broadcast in SD quality if we don't pay the fee.

If so, then why are we being gouged for $99 just to receive the games in HD? Just another example of corporate greed. The NFL package is already price $100 higher than any of the other sports packages for far fewer games.

The fact that a local station originates the game in HD has VERY LITTLE to do with DirecTV's cost to broadcast those games nationwide.

The vast majority of DirecTV's current subscribers do NOT have HD service, and only a tiny percentage have ONLY HD/MPEG4 receivers. Thus, DirecTV has to broadcast all of the games in SD every Sunday, using up a lot of transponder space. Then, it has to broadcast all of those games again in HD, using even more transponders. And in fact, more transponders are used for HD than for SD. Those are very real costs.

If it isn't worth it to you, then don't pay. NFL-ST is an OPTIONAL, PREMIUM package. Superfan is a premium on top of that. It's hardly new to charge more for a premium service with a smaller audience.

You can't buy a 2009 Ferarri for the same price as a 2009 Camry, even though they are both "just cars". A Ferarri is a premium product marketed to a much smaller segment of the population than a Camry. Ferarri makes a much higher profit per car than Toyota does (they have to; they sell far fewer cars per year). So, does that make Ferarri "full of corporate greed"? Maybe, but no more than Toyota or Ford or GM or any other car company.

Companies exist to make a profit, not to provide free services for your entertainment.

Capitalism 101.

[turey22]

I'm still waiting to hear about the "scam." :)

I know, I was seriously waiting to read about how people call his/her house to get the NFLST at a cheaper price if only they paid with their CC over the phone. Sorry but your issue is not a scam to me. :)

[mjwagner]

I have subscribed to NFL ST every year since it has been offered. I have also subscribed to SF every year since it has been offered. I finally cancelled both this year. The price / benefit ratio for the combined NFL ST and SF has just gotten out of whack for me. It is the same with many of my friends and neighbors. As someone in this thread has mentioned, capitalism 101 is at work here. Unfortunately for DirecTV I think the yearly price increases, and the fact that they are still charging extra for HD which I agree is completely ridiculous anymore, has finally caught up with them.

JMHO

[turey22]

I only get the NFL Superfan just because of the HD...to me it's worth it because you get a lot more with it.

[dcowboy7]

Its also more for $$ for less games because NFL regular season games actually mean something as opposed to mlb, nba, nhl where they play a million games & if u lose today big woop u just play tomorrow again.

[Kansas Zephyr]

I pay for "HD Access" already. Which according to the D* website:

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageNR.jsp?assetId=P4670012

What is HD Access?
HD Access allows you to view the HD channels available in your programming package.
Certain channels included in your package broadcast in both standard definition and high definition. By adding HD Access to your package, you'll be able to see the HD versions of these channels.

So, I think that we should get ST in HD with no additional cost. Let SF cover the additional mix channels/Internet access/cell phone access/etc. services.

Isn't HD "included" with EI and other sports packages?

If D* had to incur additional cost to acquire the games in HD, that would be different. However, as others keep pointing out, ALL regular season and playoff NFL games are originally produced in HD.

[JoeTheDragon]

I pay for "HD Access" already. Which according to the D* website:

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageNR.jsp?assetId=P4670012



So, I think that we should get ST in HD with no additional cost. Let SF cover the additional mix channels/Internet access/cell phone access/etc. services.

Isn't HD "included" with EI and other sports packages?

If D* had to incur additional cost to acquire the games in HD, that would be different. However, as others keep pointing out, ALL regular season and playoff NFL games are originally produced in HD.
NFL ST has to be up linked to direct. for other sports most of it is just remaps.

[Kansas Zephyr]

NFL ST has to be up linked to direct. for other sports most of it is just remaps.
It is up-linked in native HD...every NFL game "leaves the truck" at the venue in HD. D* must down-convert it for the SD customer base.

Just like any other sports package they carry in HD. No different.

[paulman182]

All DirecTV has to sell is its service, and they charge seperately for different parts of it.

I would certainly like to get HD ST without paying for Superfan, too, but what you are saying is like requiring TV stations to give away commercial time because they are broadcasting anyway and it doesn't cost more to show ads than shows, or newspapers should give away ad space because they are printing the pages anyway and it costs no more to print an ad than a story.

Or maybe I should get DirecTV service free since they are transmitting anyway and it doesn't cost them any extra for me to pick it up. (I'll vote for that!)

When a company sells a service, they don't necessarily charge based on cost.

[Kansas Zephyr]

I would certainly like to get HD ST without paying for Superfan, too, but what you are saying is like requiring TV stations to give away commercial time because they are broadcasting anyway and it doesn't cost more to show ads than shows, or newspapers should give away ad space because they are printing the pages anyway and it costs no more to print an ad than a story.

Or maybe I should get DirecTV service free since they are transmitting anyway and it doesn't cost them any extra for me to pick it up. (I'll vote for that!)
No, I'm not saying that, at all. Please, get real.

I do pay for HD Access, and according to D* it covers the HD "versions" of channels I subscribe to (including all NFL games on the NFL Network)....and I subscribe to ST.

Again, EI has HD at no additional cost, for those with HD Access. Why? If they did charge for HD, at least they would have a more consistent (easier to defend) fee structure.

[ronsanjim]

No scam........No one is forcing you to purchase their services.

[Kansas Zephyr]

No scam........No one is forcing you to purchase their services.
Your right, no scam. Never my point.

But can I still make noise, and point out that I already pay for HD Access and therefore believe that HD should be part of ST.

The other "non TV game broadcast" services can be offered as the additional SF tier.

[davidatl14]

The fact that a local station originates the game in HD has VERY LITTLE to do with DirecTV's cost to broadcast those games nationwide.

The vast majority of DirecTV's current subscribers do NOT have HD service, and only a tiny percentage have ONLY HD/MPEG4 receivers. Thus, DirecTV has to broadcast all of the games in SD every Sunday, using up a lot of transponder space. Then, it has to broadcast all of those games again in HD, using even more transponders. And in fact, more transponders are used for HD than for SD. Those are very real costs.

If it isn't worth it to you, then don't pay. NFL-ST is an OPTIONAL, PREMIUM package. Superfan is a premium on top of that. It's hardly new to charge more for a premium service with a smaller audience.

You can't buy a 2009 Ferarri for the same price as a 2009 Camry, even though they are both "just cars". A Ferarri is a premium product marketed to a much smaller segment of the population than a Camry. Ferarri makes a much higher profit per car than Toyota does (they have to; they sell far fewer cars per year). So, does that make Ferarri "full of corporate greed"? Maybe, but no more than Toyota or Ford or GM or any other car company.

Companies exist to make a profit, not to provide free services for your entertainment.

Capitalism 101.

Bingo! We have a winner.


Doesn't matter one iota whether someone feels they should receive all NFL Games in HD or not without paying the extra SF cost.

DirecTV is the provider they have decided that you don't get it with HD access fees. Next choice is yours Buy or Not?

Just keep the noise to a minimum as you exit and please shut the door on your way out.

[dshu82]

Bingo! We have a winner.


Doesn't matter one iota whether someone feels they should receive all NFL Games in HD or not without paying the extra SF cost.

DirecTV is the provider they have decided that you don't get it with HD access fees. Next choice is yours Buy or Not?

Just keep the noise to a minimum as you exit and please shut the door on your way out.

I will continue to "Buy" because it is what I want. I watch the Steelers, spend less per week than going to the bar (even taking out when they are a national game), so it is worth it to me. I pay for it every year, including SF.

Two week until training camp!

[Kansas Zephyr]

Just keep the noise to a minimum as you exit and please shut the door on your way out.
I've chosen to purchase ST and SF.

I've also chosen to make noise about the additional HD cost. Which to me contradicts the published purpose of the HD Access fee (that I choose to pay). Anyone remember that HD was part of ST, at one time?

So, no I will not stop raising the issue...and I will not leave.

Geez...who knows HD may be included again in the future, if there's enough support. Boy, that would be bad, huh?

[JoeTheDragon]

I've chosen to purchase ST and SF.

I've also chosen to make noise about the additional HD cost. Which to me contradicts the published purpose of the HD Access fee (that I choose to pay). Anyone remember that HD was part of ST, at one time?

So, no I will not stop raising the issue...and I will not leave.

Geez...who knows HD may be included again in the future, if there's enough support. Boy, that would be bad, huh?
may hd it's own fee, the mix and other stuff one fee and also put red zone on it's own as well.

[549]

I've chosen to purchase ST and SF.

I've also chosen to make noise about the additional HD cost. Which to me contradicts the published purpose of the HD Access fee (that I choose to pay). Anyone remember that HD was part of ST, at one time?

So, no I will not stop raising the issue...and I will not leave.

Geez...who knows HD may be included again in the future, if there's enough support. Boy, that would be bad, huh?

Really there isn't too much to get excited about here. Don't want them to charge extra for SF? Okay, they will charge everybody the ST & SF total price regardless of them having HD or not. Right now they do it separately to not penalize people without HD. If they were forced to not charge the SF fee they would just roll it all into one fee.

[DawgLink]

I've chosen to purchase ST and SF.

I've also chosen to make noise about the additional HD cost. Which to me contradicts the published purpose of the HD Access fee (that I choose to pay). Anyone remember that HD was part of ST, at one time?

So, no I will not stop raising the issue...and I will not leave.

Geez...who knows HD may be included again in the future, if there's enough support. Boy, that would be bad, huh?

I say keep it up. :)

[DCSholtis]

No, I'm not saying that, at all. Please, get real.

I do pay for HD Access, and according to D* it covers the HD "versions" of channels I subscribe to (including all NFL games on the NFL Network)....and I subscribe to ST.

Again, EI has HD at no additional cost, for those with HD Access. Why? If they did charge for HD, at least they would have a more consistent (easier to defend) fee structure.

EI has no additional cost for those with HD Access. Why you ask?! Simple because of the new TV contract bringing MLB Network online most of the SF stuff was taken away leaving nothing left so that's why the HD is now combined into EI.

[Kansas Zephyr]

Really there isn't too much to get excited about here. Don't want them to charge extra for SF? Okay, they will charge everybody the ST & SF total price regardless of them having HD or not. Right now they do it separately to not penalize people without HD. If they were forced to not charge the SF fee they would just roll it all into one fee.
I don't think so.

All of the mix/red zone/Internet/Cell Phone/etc. value-added content alone could easily become SF. That makes sense. Charge additional fees for extra content created by D* itself.

ST is nothing more than a service allowing those that subscribe to receive out-of-market games. Those games are provided to D* in HD, via the networks, and I have HD Access.

That's the way I see it, for this issue.

If you've been on this forum a while, and read my other postings, you know that I've "sided" with D* on plenty of threads dealing with people that don't think they should pay ETFs because they didn't bother to read their contract.

I subscribe to Premier/HD Access/HD Extra/Access Magazine...and have plenty of receivers active. Yet, you haven't seen me complain about service packaging, or pricing. (I was one of "those OTA users" that made noise before the AM21 was announced, however.)

But, in this case I think there is a point to be made...and I'll keep making it. Even if it's tilting at windmills.

[scoop8]

I don't think so.

All of the mix/red zone/Internet/Cell Phone/etc. value-added content alone could easily become SF. That makes sense. Charge additional fees for extra content created by D* itself.

ST is nothing more than a service allowing those that subscribe to receive out-of-market games. Those games are provided to D* in HD, via the networks, and I have HD Access.

I see the SF fee the same way. I wouldn't mind paying the fee for the services you mentioned. If I had that choice I wouldn't sign up for SF since the main thing I'm interested in is getting all of the games in HD. Last season was my first with DTV HD upgrade and I wondered about the SF issue at that time (why are we paying extra to get the games in HD).

[GenTso]

D* was more than willing to work with me to get both ST and SF down to a price that was affordable and fair. I can't remember exactly, but I have the total written down ... it comes out to roughly $8 a Sunday. Sure, you're going to be paying a lot more if you pay for the entire package and I'm sure a lot of people do and feel the price is fair. I didn't and called them and negotiated a price that was borderline generous without much fuss. After I negotiated a lower rate, I reminded a friend to do the same ... and he somehow got a better deal. I don't really understand the fuss. If they were totally unwilling to budge, sure, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

[Lord Vader]

Its also more for $$ for less games because NFL regular season games actually mean something as opposed to mlb, nba, nhl where they play a million games & if u lose today big woop u just play tomorrow again.

A more inaccurate statement you could not have made. A game in April, June, or August is critical to an MLB team's post-season chances. If you don't think regular season games mean much, just go back and look at the end of the year records for several teams and how often there has been a one-game playoff to determine a division winner.

Major League Baseball is unique among the major sports in how an entire 162-game season can be played but some teams are STILL tied at the end of it. Amazing.

The NFL? I love football, but oftentimes it doesn't matter if a team loses a few games here and there. The importance of a regular season game isn't as critical as it is in MLB.

[dtrell]

this is a stupid argument. you can point to any sport and see where if a team hadnt choked one game here or one game there, then theyd be in the playoffs or have home field advantage or whatever...the bottom line is no matter how many games they play in a season, ALL GAMES COUNT and all games need to be played as if they all matter by these prima donna overpaid and overcoddled athletes.

[joed32]

Yes, all games count but in baseball one game is 1/160 or so of the season. Football is 1/16 of the season. I went to an Angel game last year, someone gave me tickets, they were priced at $49. The last NFL game I went to was $64 and a better value in my opinion. Of course a die hard baseball fan would disagree. I have called and gotten SF free every year. I think it should not be extra and at some point it won't be.

[John in Georgia]

Hasan -- trying to look at your setup and got this msg:

John in Georgia, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

[dcowboy7]

A more inaccurate statement you could not have made. A game in April, June, or August is critical to an MLB team's post-season chances. If you don't think regular season games mean much, just go back and look at the end of the year records for several teams and how often there has been a one-game playoff to determine a division winner.

Major League Baseball is unique among the major sports in how an entire 162-game season can be played but some teams are STILL tied at the end of it. Amazing.

The NFL? I love football, but oftentimes it doesn't matter if a team loses a few games here and there. The importance of a regular season game isn't as critical as it is in MLB.

No it isnt:

- If baseball played 1,000 games a season it would still come down to a team 2 games out with 3 left.
- Also teams can lose more in baseball so the margin of error isnt there....didnt the Cards go like 84-78 & still win it all a few yrs ago.
- Thats why regular season NFL gets the highest ratings cause when u play only 16 games each game has "value"...the Pats went 11-5 (.688) & didnt even make the playoffs.

The importance of a regular season game isn't as critical as it is in MLB ?

Now thats the most inaccurate statement ive ever seen.

[RACJ2]

Hasan -- trying to look at your setup and got this msg:

John in Georgia, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
He posted his setup in the CE section of the forum and you aren't a member. I had this happen with someone else that I was trying to view, so I learned first hand.

[solo1026]

Me too. They offer a product for a price. The consumer chooses to buy it or not. I decided not to, after having it since day one on C band. No hard feelings, no scam, it just wasn't worth the price any longer (dropped it last year). I don't miss it.

I'm with you. I cancel my NFL Sunday Ticket because DTV won't give me the NFL in HD without Superfan. I told them that is cool. Just cancel the NFL. 12 years seeing the NFL Sunday Ticket and I already pay extra just to see HD programing. It's to much already:( I like DTV and love the NFL Sunday Ticket but to pay extra for HD programing and now to see NFL in HD they wants an extra $99.00 NO! Cancel.

[joed32]

I'm with you. I cancel my NFL Sunday Ticket because DTV won't give me the NFL in HD without Superfan. I told them that is cool. Just cancel the NFL. 12 years seeing the NFL Sunday Ticket and I already pay extra just to see HD programing. It's to much already:( I like DTV and love the NFL Sunday Ticket but to pay extra for HD programing and now to see NFL in HD they wants an extra $99.00 NO! Cancel.

You could have asked for SF for free like the rest of us.

[ricochet]

A more inaccurate statement you could not have made. A game in April, June, or August is critical to an MLB team's post-season chances. If you don't think regular season games mean much, just go back and look at the end of the year records for several teams and how often there has been a one-game playoff to determine a division winner.

Major League Baseball is unique among the major sports in how an entire 162-game season can be played but some teams are STILL tied at the end of it. Amazing.

The NFL? I love football, but oftentimes it doesn't matter if a team loses a few games here and there. The importance of a regular season game isn't as critical as it is in MLB.

Seriously? I've seen some outrageous statements but this is almost unbelievable. You claim that because MLB teams occasionally (once or twice a decade?) have a playoff that means regular season games are more important? I would guess that *every* year the NFL comes down to tie breakers and most years there are multiple instances. The only individual regular season games I can think of that are more important than the NFL is college football - at least for the teams seeking a national championship.

PS
Check the past baseball standings and I bet most years there are at least 2 MLB teams that end up with the same record. You might want to rethink what you find "amazing".

[dcowboy7]

I'm with you. I cancel my NFL Sunday Ticket because DTV won't give me the NFL in HD without Superfan.

You should just call back & say u will add sunday ticket if they give u free superfan.

Really what do u have to lose ?

[549]

I don't think so.

All of the mix/red zone/Internet/Cell Phone/etc. value-added content alone could easily become SF. That makes sense. Charge additional fees for extra content created by D* itself.

ST is nothing more than a service allowing those that subscribe to receive out-of-market games. Those games are provided to D* in HD, via the networks, and I have HD Access.

That's the way I see it, for this issue.

If you've been on this forum a while, and read my other postings, you know that I've "sided" with D* on plenty of threads dealing with people that don't think they should pay ETFs because they didn't bother to read their contract.

I subscribe to Premier/HD Access/HD Extra/Access Magazine...and have plenty of receivers active. Yet, you haven't seen me complain about service packaging, or pricing. (I was one of "those OTA users" that made noise before the AM21 was announced, however.)

But, in this case I think there is a point to be made...and I'll keep making it. Even if it's tilting at windmills.

I can appreciate you point here. Regardless of how they receive the content they are going to charge based on what they deliver to the customer. They feel that with the SF they are delivering more than someone who just gets ST. They are charging for that extra service. Their other option is to make everyone pay for the extra service regardless of them using it or not.