Initial UPS Setup??

[oldbamaguy]

Well, I purchased three APC 550VA UPSs today. (Personally I think some folks here must have APC stock.) :):):)
I plan to put one on each of my HD-DVR/eSATAs.
Do I have to do anything with the "software"? Install is for the PC if used on a PC, right?
For my application, I see plug in the UPS's battery, plug the UPS into a wall socket, let the UPS charge for at least 16 hours, plug the HD-DVR and eSATA into the UPS, turn the UPS on. The system should be "good to go" after the Directv bootup.
Is that "about" right??:confused::confused::confused:
Thank You Very Much!!
oldbamaguy

[SledDog]

Yep..

The software is for your PC. The rest of the stuff mentioned is spot-on. Enjoy!

Eniwetok Atoll 1958 and I was There!!

Thanks for your service!:)

[veryoldschool]

Seems about right.
APC software will let you select trip voltages, which shouldn't be needed, unless you have problems [like I do with over voltage from the power company].

[oldbamaguy]

Thanks for the information and fast response!!
Yup I watched 20-30 Atomic/Hydrogen bomb blasts maybe 20 miles away.
The picture is of a "big" underwater shot. Note ship at base of water spout for sizing. I was on the Atoll shown at the bottom of the pic.
I was USAF in the 50s and I worked Civil Service at Eglin AFB Florida (near Destin) for 30 years. I retired from The SouthEastern Super Computer Center in 1995. I worked in the "Systems Shop" where I developed the software (in C) to charge customers for computer usage. We had a CRAY YMP with a T3D for MPP (Massively Parallel Processing) and an EL for storage.
Best Wishes Always!!
oldbamaguy

[Rakul]

I use the software and a laptop to turn the alarm sound off on mine but that's about it.

[rudeney]

I use the software and a laptop to turn the alarm sound off on mine but that's about it.

Yes, you will definitely want to do this! I have eight UPS's in my house (one for each D* DVR plus one for each computer), and when the power goes out, I do not want to hear all of those things chirping.

[oldbamaguy]

Everything seemed to install okay. I did run short of outlets to plug "directly into the wall" which is "required" by each UPS and the Directv Power strips. Guess I'll have to get electricians to run another circuit. The electricians estimated about $300. Ouch!!
Many Thanks To All!!
oldbamaguy

[veryoldschool]

"in a pinch" I'd connect the UPS(s) to the wall, and the power strip off the "surge only" outlets on the UPS.

[oldbamaguy]

Thanks for the info VeryOldSchool!!
I think I'll go the "Establishment Correct" route and get the other line, since I'm probably gonna need another outlet sometime.
And it looks like I'm gonna need another Ethernet Connection.

I love your username!!
Are you older than me, I'll be 71 next month?
(Sorry, I had to ask.)
Best Wishes Always!!
oldbamaguy

[rudeney]

Guess I'll have to get electricians to run another circuit. The electricians estimated about $300. Ouch!!

Wiring Simplified 41st Edition Book: $10
Duplex Outlet: $1
Old work electrical box: $2
50' 14/2 Romex: $24
Doing it yourself and saving over $250: Priceless!

[wildbill129]

Everything seemed to install okay. I did run short of outlets to plug "directly into the wall" which is "required" by each UPS and the Directv Power strips. Guess I'll have to get electricians to run another circuit. The electricians estimated about $300. Ouch!!
Many Thanks To All!!
oldbamaguy

Are you wanting an additional "Circuit" or just additional outlets? An additional outlet on the existing circuit is more than likely fine. You could add that for less than 20 bucks in a few minutes time.

I still would add a small power strip on the surge only side (no battery backup). It won't hurt anything, I do it on mine and have had multiple power outages with no problems. Besides, your UPS will tell you if you have overloaded it or there is a wiring problem.

[oldbamaguy]

I was thinking a new circuit from the fuse box to the wall behind the TVs etc.
I was up in the attic and was looking around. I could almost do it myself (I did all the attic/wall work for the Directv installer). It would be priceless, but I could end up LIFEless. :):):) I worked electronic for nearly 20 years, but living alone I'm a bit afraid that I might get shocked and die on the spot (no one would know).
Right now, I have decided to leave only the HD-DVRs and eSATAs plugged into the UPSs. I'm going to try a two to six wall socket adapter for the AC and see if the circuit breaker will hold the three UPS's (125v 7a each) (I think it is a dedicated line.) I also have a one to three Ethernet Adapter which I plan to try and see if my network recognizes everything.
Many Thanks for All the Ideas!!
Best Wishes Always!!
oldbamaguy

[wallfishman]

Are you wanting an additional "Circuit" or just additional outlets? An additional outlet on the existing circuit is more than likely fine. You could add that for less than 20 bucks in a few minutes time.

I still would add a small power strip on the surge only side (no battery backup). It won't hurt anything, I do it on mine and have had multiple power outages with no problems. Besides, your UPS will tell you if you have overloaded it or there is a wiring problem.

thats all id do or try the 2 to 6 adapter like hes gonna try. hell bama half the jobs i do they got extension cords feeding extension cords.

[rudeney]

I was thinking a new circuit from the fuse box to the wall behind the TVs etc.
I was up in the attic and was looking around. I could almost do it myself (I did all the attic/wall work for the Directv installer). It would be priceless, but I could end up LIFEless. :):):) I worked electronic for nearly 20 years, but living alone I'm a bit afraid that I might get shocked and die on the spot (no one would know).

OK, if you are uncomfortable with the DYI job, then definitely you need to get help with it. I'm comfortable with running my on electrical. I put in a dedicated 20AMP circuit for my TV when my wife discovered that she could not run the plasma, HR20, Denon 5803 and the vacuum cleaner at the same time. Too bad you don;t live about 250 miles north, or I;d be glad to help you with it! :)

Right now, I have decided to leave only the HD-DVRs and eSATAs plugged into the UPSs. I'm going to try a two to six wall socket adapter for the AC and see if the circuit breaker will hold the three UPS's (125v 7a each) (I think it is a dedicated line.) I also have a one to three Ethernet Adapter which I plan to try and see if my network recognizes everything.


Remember, the 7 amp rating on the UPS is just it's max rating. It won't pull 7 amps just plugged in. The battery charging circuit will use some power, but I'd guess 1 to 2 amps at the most (and probably much less when just trickle-charging the battery). Also, I like the 2-to-6 outlet solution better than chaining the UPS's or plugging them into another power strip. It's less wire, plus those 2-to-6 outlet adapters generally have a center screw to secure them to the outlet making them safer.

[armophob]

Right now, I have decided to leave only the HD-DVRs and eSATAs plugged into the UPSs. I'm going to try a two to six wall socket adapter for the AC and see if the circuit breaker will hold the three UPS's (125v 7a each) (I think it is a dedicated line.)

I contacted an electrician years ago about the same worries. This is his email back.
"A 15amp breaker can handle 12 amps continuously. 12 amps X 120volts = 1440 watts. #12 wire is rated @ 20amps "
Keep in mind as well that the battery back ups are not there to run your equipment like a generator, they are just there to catch dips and rises or let you shut every thing off nicely in an outage. Therefore they are not going to be on full amperage draw recharging the batteries.

[rudeney]

I contacted an electrician years ago about the same worries. This is his email back.
"A 15amp breaker can handle 12 amps continuously. 12 amps X 120volts = 1440 watts. #12 wire is rated @ 20amps "

That would be an electrician I'd not hire! A 15AMP breaker is rated for 15AMPS. When operating properly, a breaker can handle a very brief "starup" surge above 15 amp, but only 15amps continuously. In this electrician's defense, as a breaker ages, it will tend to take less current to trip, so suggesting that no more than 12 amps continuous be demanded from it is sounds advice, but so make the blanked statement that 12 amps continuous is all a 15AMP breaker can handle is just wrong.

[armophob]

That would be an electrician I'd not hire! A 15AMP breaker is rated for 15AMPS. When operating properly, a breaker can handle a very brief "starup" surge above 15 amp, but only 15amps continuously. In this electrician's defense, as a breaker ages, it will tend to take less current to trip, so suggesting that no more than 12 amps continuous be demanded from it is sounds advice, but so make the blanked statement that 12 amps continuous is all a 15AMP breaker can handle is just wrong.

I have used this licensed electricians word as law for years now. If you are a licensed electrician, or know one who is willing to give a statement to the contrary in text, then please do. I am only as good as the advice I am given by experts. I just need proof that's all.:)

[dsw2112]

Are you wanting an additional "Circuit" or just additional outlets? An additional outlet on the existing circuit is more than likely fine. You could add that for less than 20 bucks in a few minutes time.

Ultimately I think the above would be your best route. It's an easy DIY job, or you can hire an electrician to do it for much cheaper than the $300 to run a dedicated line. An easy test is to plug in a vacuum and turn on every piece of equipment on the circuit (including the vacuum) -- if the breaker doesn't trip you're good to go!

[dsw2112]

I have used this licensed electricians word as law for years now. If you are a licensed electrician, or know one who is willing to give a statement to the contrary in text, then please do. I am only as good as the advice I am given by experts. I just need proof that's all.:)

As an electrician I can probably clear this up. Circuit breakers will handle 100% of their rated current, but the NEC requires that they're sized to handle 80% of their rated amount. Therefore if a circuit is expected to handle 12 amps or less you use a 15 amp breaker (12 amps is 80% of the 15 amp rating.) To continue the example a circuit requiring no more than 16 amps uses a 20 amp breaker. You can pull up to the rated amount, but the 80% calculation is just an extra safety margin when sizing circuits. Clear as mud?

[oldbamaguy]

I spoke to an electrician this morning. He asked about requirements. When I told him I had three UPS rated at 125v and 7a, he said he would run two dedicated lines. It seems to me that three maybe 15a would be better, one for each.
Gosh I never thought I would have all these "troubles" with Directv and eSATA and UPS. I'm wondering what is next??
Many Many Thanks for all the Suggestions and Ideas!!
Best Wishes Always!!
oldbamaguy

[veryoldschool]

:confused:
I'm getting a bit lost here.
If a UPS is rated @ 125v and 7a, doesn't this mean what you can plug into it, and not how much "load" it adds by itself?

[oldbamaguy]

Interesting question. There was a tape attached to the power cord that said 125v 7a. I figured that was the input requirements. It is a 550va so I figure (neglecting power factor) that means the output is 125v and about 4.44 amps. I'm figuring that with only the HD-DVR and the eSATA plugged into it, it should work for maybe an hour. I do not plan to plug anything else into the UPS. After the electrician leaves, I think I will have three dedicated lines. I plan to plug one UPS and one Directv power strip into each. That should balance the load.
Best Wishes Always!!
oldbamaguy

[veryoldschool]

Interesting question. There was a tape attached to the power cord that said 125v 7a. I figured that was the input requirements. It is a 550va so I figure (neglecting power factor) that means the output is 125v and about 4.44 amps. I'm figuring that with only the HD-DVR and the eSATA plugged into it, it should work for maybe an hour. I do not plan to plug anything else into the UPS. After the electrician leaves, I think I will have three dedicated lines. I plan to plug one UPS and one Directv power strip into each. That should balance the load.
Best Wishes Always!!
oldbamaguy
One word come to mind: "overkill" :lol:

DirecTV "wants" their powerstrip connected to the wall, so it doesn't get switched off.

The UPS monitors the outlet votage, so it should be connected directly, but the powerstrip will function quite well off the "non battery" outlets of the UPS.

[oldbamaguy]

I agree with the "overkill" approach.
Before the Directv power strips, I had never heard of anything that required being "plugged directly into the wall". For the UPS, it makes some sense, ie "to monitor line voltage". But I "really" believe it would all work with one plug into the wall.
Say the UPS was plugged into the power strip. It would monitor the power strip's output which was, I suspect filtered a bit and might be fractions of a volt lower, IRL "about the same".
Say the power strip is plugged into the "surge protected" outlet on the UPS. The output of the power strip might be twice filtered and fractions of a volt lower, IRL "about the same". The real winners in this "game" are the electricians. They are going to cost about the same as a power strip, a UPS and an eSATA put together.
Best Wishes Always!!
oldbamaguy

[veryoldschool]

I agree with the "overkill" approach.
Before the Directv power strips, I had never heard of anything that required being "plugged directly into the wall". For the UPS, it makes some sense, ie "to monitor line voltage". But I "really" believe it would all work with one plug into the wall.
Say the UPS was plugged into the power strip. It would monitor the power strip's output which was, I suspect filtered a bit and might be fractions of a volt lower, IRL "about the same".
Say the power strip is plugged into the "surge protected" outlet on the UPS. The output of the power strip might be twice filtered and fractions of a volt lower, IRL "about the same". The real winners in this "game" are the electricians. They are going to cost about the same as a power strip, a UPS and an eSATA put together.
Best Wishes Always!!
oldbamaguy
"Twice filtered" would have more effect on the UPS, than the powerstrip.
I doubt there is going to be a voltage drop with either, but some transients will get filtered.
If your powerstrip is being used as part of a powerline adapter network, then all bets are off since filtering is going to reduce its function.
Getting back to doing the work yourself:
If you make the last connection at the breaker box, you'll have the "mains off", then close up the panel and close the mains. You can leave the new breaker open and close it later. I don't think you're going to kill yourself if you know what you do and think about your work/actions.
Take a simple circuit tester and plug it into [even before your energize the circuit, if you want] the outlet to prove it's wired correctly.
Working on live wires is not recomended at any time, but once they're disconnected and you've proved "they're dead", you should be fine.

[Bill Broderick]

I use the software and a laptop to turn the alarm sound off on mine but that's about it.


Although that is nice for when the power goes out, I think that the alarm may have been a very good thing for me this past weekend. Yesterday morning, far earlier than I would have woke up, I was awakened by a solid chirping sound. When I got up to investigate, I found that one of my UPS's, in my bedroom, had shut down outgoing battery power (no power outage) and that there was a burning smell coming from the UPS. The items tht that were connected to outlets on the non-battery side of the UPS were still powered on.

I don't know if the UPS would have eventually caught on fire or not. But I'm glad that the alarm went off and didnt' give the opportunity to find out.

[dsw2112]

:confused:
I'm getting a bit lost here.
If a UPS is rated @ 125v and 7a, doesn't this mean what you can plug into it, and not how much "load" it adds by itself?

This is exactly right, the UPS will not be able to draw more than 7 amps from the wall outlet. The 7A figure includes the power the internal UPS circuitry draws in addition to what is plugged into the UPS. If you're only plugging an Esata and receiver into a UPS you will draw nowhere near 7 amps. Some UPS's will have a load meter on the front to let you know how close you are to this threshold, but ultimately they will alarm and shutdown if their rated value is exceeded. To the OP -- before spending inordinate amounts of money on this project look at the back of your tv and find the power it draws (watts or amps.) If listed in watts divide by 120 to get amps. Do the same for any other components on the 15 amp circuit (i.e. home theatre receiver, DVD player, etc) and add up the total amount. If you post that figure here we can tell you an unbiased opinion of whether you REALLY need another dedicated line or two. This is the only CORRECT way to determine whether your circuit can handle the load you intend to place on it. I'd really hate to see you shell out money for no reason...

P.S. What's going to be plugged into each of the three UPS's?

[oldbamaguy]

Regard your PS, all I plan to plug into the UPS is one HD-DVR and one eSATA.
I do not plan to use the "surge protected" outlets on the UPS at all. I plan to plug a Directv power strip in one of the "directly into the wall" outlets and the UPS into the other "directly into the wall" outlet. This will be done three times on three "dedicated" 120v 15a lines. The tvs, dvd players, vcrs, etc will be spread across the power strips to balance the load.
I know I should do the job myself, but in all my 70 years I don't think I have ever done any electricians work. I can't remember even replacing a wall socket. Somehow I don't think 70 is the time to start. I live alone and I don't know anyone who could help in this project. This may not be the "reasonable" or "economical" way to go, but at least this way Directv will not have a gripe should they come out for a problem.
Many Thanks for All the Ideas and Suggestions!!
Best Wishes Always!!
oldbamaguy

[dsw2112]

If you really want to add the dedicated lines then that's up to you. To give you an example of the current draw of an average tv room:

50" Tv (non energy star compliant) - 600 watts
Home theatre receiver - 300 watts
DVD Player - 100 watts
VCR - 100 watts
DTv receiver - 100 watts
UPS "leakage current" X2 - 240 watts

Total wattage: 1440
Total current: 12 Amps

I errored on the high side here, but as you can see there's no need for further dedicated lines and there is really no need for you to use more than 2 UPS's in your setup. It's up to you...

[oldbamaguy]

I understand what you say. I worked in electronics for nearly 20 years and I know about volts, amps, watts, voltamps, power factors etc. I have half a dozen meters and even a clamp on amp meter. I know that I could get by using only 2 of the APC 550va UPS (ie six battery backup outlets). I know I could get by with only one power strip. I could use a bunch of "splitters" and get by. That is what I'm running right now.
But I think "I would feel better" going the three dedicated lines with three UPSs and three power strips to serve the three HD-DVRs. I even plan to put numbers on them. I wish someone would have mentioned that the UPSs want to be plugged directly into the wall when I asked (a while back) should I get one 1500 or three 550s. I would have gotten one 1500 and saved all these wall socket problems. Though the ones I looked at were 4/4 backup/surge sockets and I need 6 battery backup outputs.
An aside, I was glad to see that OP means Original Poster rather than Old Person as I suspected.
Again Many Thanks for all the Responses and Ideas!!
Best Wishes Always!!
oldbamaguy

[veryoldschool]

you can click on "quote" at the bottom of any post and reply to the post.
I've noticed you haven't in this thread.
I've already said this is overkill, "but" one thing you get with age: "you can do it your way". :lol:

[dsw2112]

An aside, I was glad to see that OP means Original Poster rather than Old Person as I suspected.

Ha ha, you are a character! Good luck with the setup and let us know how everything goes.

[houskamp]

One side note: If you use a powerstrip after a UPS, they recommend you don't use one with surge suppressor..

[armophob]

I posted this a while back. Copied from APC Q&A website

post#30

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1043511

[rudeney]

As an electrician I can probably clear this up. Circuit breakers will handle 100% of their rated current, but the NEC requires that they're sized to handle 80% of their rated amount. Therefore if a circuit is expected to handle 12 amps or less you use a 15 amp breaker (12 amps is 80% of the 15 amp rating.) To continue the example a circuit requiring no more than 16 amps uses a 20 amp breaker. You can pull up to the rated amount, but the 80% calculation is just an extra safety margin when sizing circuits. Clear as mud?

That is correct; when planning for the load on a given circuit, it should not exceed 80% of the circuit's maximum rating. So, if the planned load exceeds 12 amps, then it should be a 20 amp circuit rather than a 15 amp. This is only an issue when you know what the load will be when wiring for specific lights or appliances like an air conditioner, oven, dishwasher, etc. When wiring for generic outlets in a living room or bedroom, the load is variable, so it's acceptable to install 15 amp circuits even though the homeowner might plug in more than 12 amps of electrical devices. If I were building my own home today, I'd have nothing less than 20 amp circuits throughout.

BTW, I am not an electrician, but I have a pretty high level of knowledge on the subject studding under my grandfather who was an electrician and my uncle who is an electrical engineer and my father who is a civil engineer. I've wired new houses and rewired old houses. I actually passed the journeyman's exam, but because I wasn't willing to quit my "day job" and work under a master, I never went any further with my licensing.

[westom]

I posted this a while back. Copied from APC Q&A website
Neither APC nor that quoted post say why. Use an oscilloscope to see why. A UPS in battery backup mode can output some of the 'dirtiest' power. For example, this 120 volt UPS outputs two 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts between those square waves.

Of course, electronics are so robust as to make 'dirty' UPS power irrelevant. But that same power can be harmful to small electric motors and power strip protectors. APC would rather not discuss that.

Appliance already contains any protection that an APC power strip might provide. You might learn that their UPS does not filter (near zero filtering) electricity. APC warns about not using the power strip protector on its output - but would rather not discuss why. It would expose some myths that promote more sales.

A UPS in battery backup mode can output some of the 'dirtiest' power.

Routing a new 15 amp circuit for appliances is too small. That circuit must be 20 amps so that plugs rated at 15 amps can be installed. That means each appliance using NEMA-15 plugs will draw no more than 13 amps. Confirming rudeney's accurate posts.

[oldbamaguy]

The electricians came this morning. I had them "do a few things" and they installed two 125v 20a "dedicated" lines to plugs behind my entertainment center.
I now am comfortable with a UPS (with only a HD-DVR and eSATA on the battery back up plugs) and a Directv Powerstrip plugged directly into one wall plug. That configuration is repeated three times. I plan to balance the load of the TVs, DVD players etc across the three power strips. Each power strip will furnish an Ethernet connection to one HD-DVR.
As previously discussed, this is "overkill", but I do have each UPS plugged "directly into the wall" and each Directv PowerStrip plugged "directly into the wall" as suggested by APC and Directv.
I even numbered the components, in that, I have wall plug #1, UPS #1, HD-DVR #1, eSATA #1 and PowerStrip #1.
Many Many Thanks for all the Response and Ideas about this project!!
"We Done GOOD!!"
oldbamaguy