DirecTV's Rules for SWMs

[BattleZone]

Introduction to SWM

In late 2007, DirecTV officially introduced a new technology for delivering signals from their “Slimline” HD-capable dish antenna to their newer satellite receivers. This technology is called Single Wire Multiswitch, or SWM (pronounced “swim”). SWMs are a major departure from the “legacy” systems which used voltage switching and tone signaling to switch between banks of transponders, a system that required a separate, unsplit coax line between an LNB or multiswitch output and each satellite tuner.

Using SWM technology, it is possible to feed up to 8 tuners (per SWM device) from a single coax, using wideband cable splitters as needed to split the line to feed one cable per receiver. Each SWM module also requires an in-line power supply to power the LNB and internal SWM switchgear.

Compatible dual-tuner receivers can use 1 or 2 SWM channels to feed one or both tuners from a single coax connected to the “SAT 1” input. The obvious advantage to this system is that in most cases it allows the use of pre-existing “cable” wiring, where typically only one line is run to each TV location. SWM even allows the use of RG59 in most cases (damaged or lower-grade RG59 may not work), which is a boon for those in older homes and buildings.

There are two different types of SWM devices: the SWM LNB and the separate SWM8 module. The SWM LNB comes in two versions: the SL3-S and the SL5-S, which are the SWM versions of the “legacy” LNBs for the Slimline dish, the SL3 and the SL5. As a rule, the SWM LNBS are the only SWM equipment DirecTV installs or supports for residential installations. The standalone SWM8 external SWM module is intended for commercial and/or MDU (multi-dwelling unit, aka apartment) DirecTV installations, and is not supplied or supported by DirecTV for residential use. More on that later.

Qualifying for SWM

While SWM is a great new technology, the system has several important limitations. The SWM LNBs have just a single coax output, and thus cannot be expanded or integrated with other orbital locations, so if you need International programming or live in an area where the SD locals still come from the 72.5 satellite, you will not qualify for SWM equipment. Each SWM module has a total of 9 “SWM Channels”, 8 for providing signals to tuners and 1 “control channel”. Thus, a Slimline dish with a SWM LNB can feed a maximum of 8 tuners, and cannot be expanded. Finally, only newer models of DirecTV receivers support SWM technology. Those are:

• D12 and newer
• R16, R22 and newer
• H20* and newer
• HR20 and newer

Older models are not SWM compatible and cannot be made SWM compatible.

For these and other business reasons, DirecTV has created internal business rules that limit SWM equipment to the following:

• New customers only. (Upgrades and Mover’s Connections do not qualify!)
• At least 1 HD receiver.
• 5-8 tuners total.**
• No International programming.

**Mid Oct 2009, this will be changing; all *new* HD installs without Internationals with 8 or less tuners will get SWM LNBs.


The biggest objection to these rules tend to come from existing customers who want a SWM but don’t qualify. The primary reason for the “new customers only” rule is to ensure that all receivers on the account are SWM compatible. DirecTV doesn’t intend to replace working receivers for free just to make them SWM compatible, and many customers would object to paying to upgrade their receivers to an equivalent but SWM-compatible version (say: R15 to R16), so presumably they decided it would be easiest to simply limit SWM equipment to new customers only.

Important Note: No matter what an individual CSR promises you, CSRs cannot specify SWM equipment for you. They can put your request in the system notes, which may or may not get to the installer, but those notes cannot and do not override the hardware items listed on the work order, and that is what the installer must go by.

When a CSR places an order, all the CSR can do is order your receivers. They specify x number of HD-DVRs, y number of HD receivers, and so on. Based on the receivers ordered, DirecTV’s work order system generates the work order with any other needed hardware, such as dishes and/or switches. The system builds the work order based on the business rules DirecTV has created, and there’s nothing a CSR can do to override these selections. If the system says you don’t qualify for a SWM, you don’t get one.

Keep in mind that DirecTV has never advertised SWM technology or promised (at a corporate level) any customer that they were going to get SWM equipment. DirecTV’s position is that SWM equipment is for customers who qualify for it under the above rules.

How To Get A SWM System If You Don’t Qualify

There are two ways to get SWM equipment if you don’t qualify to get one as part of a standard installation.

DirecTV’s “Custom Work Price Sheet”, as updated on 2/28/2009, lists a SWM LNB upgrade option as custom work that a customer can request. HSP techs should all carry copies of this price sheet and customers should get a copy when any custom work is performed. The price for the SWM LNB upgrade is $136, and does not include receiver swaps, which would be an extra expense. This might seem pricey, but it is the only official, supported way to get a SWM if you don’t otherwise qualify for one.*

* As of 8/17/09, DirecTV has removed this option.

The other option is to buy and install your own SWM equipment.

NOTE: By installing your own SWM equipment, you are putting yourself outside the DirecTV supported system, and may be refused repair/warranty service by DirecTV’s HSP (Home Service Provider) system. HSP techs work under very stringent rules and under penalty of severe chargebacks, so most won’t touch a system that doesn’t match their paperwork, and officially-installed SWM systems are documented in the customer’s account. So, before you do this, understand: you are on your own. Do not expect support from DirecTV for your modified system.

The simplest solution is generally swapping out your existing legacy LNB with the SWM version. If your existing system has an external multiswitch (typically a Zinwell WB68), you can replace it with your SWM splitter and connect one line per receiver to the splitter. Always use a splitter with the minimum ports to connect the receivers you have (SWM splitters come in 1x2, 1x4, and 1x8 versions), and always use terminating resister caps to terminate any unused ports on your splitter. The SWM LNB has the limitations previously listed: 8 tuners max, no expansion, no support for legacy receivers, and no support for International or 72.5 markets.

The other alternative is to purchase a commercial SWM8 switch. The SWM8 is fed by running all 4 lines from a legacy Slimline LNB to the 4 main inputs on the SWM, but the SWM8 has several additional capabilities: it has 2 Flexports like a WB68, so it can support International and 72.5 markets. It also has 3 legacy ports, which will pass 101/110/119 signals to legacy receivers. (If you only need signal from 101, you can use 2 of those ports to feed a legacy switch if more legacy ports are needed). Finally, by splitting the lines from the LNB before they reach the SWM8, you can feed multiple SWM8s from a single dish, allowing multiple 8-channel SWM “legs” in your system.

Once again, the SWM8 is not intended for use in residential applications, which has several important potential consequences. If your SWM8 module fails, it will not be directly replaced by DirecTV, so it will be up to you to handle any warranty issues with the vendor you purchased it from. If you insist that DirecTV restores your system, they may replace your SWM8 system with a SWM LNB or with a legacy system, at DirecTV’s option, to get it working.

Further, most DirecTV installers have no involvement with any commercial equipment, including the SWM8, so most installers will have never seen one and will have no idea what it is or how it works, and may refuse to work on the system at all. That is the chance you take going outside the system, so please don’t blame the tech if this happens to you.

Hope this helps to clear things up.

[RobertE]

Motion to be made a sticky post. :)

[hdtvfan0001]

Seconded.

[dave29]

Nice write-up!

[Movieman]

New[/B] customers only. (Upgrades and Mover’s Connections do not qualify!)
• At least 1 HD receiver.
• 5-8 tuners total.
• No International or 72.5 local markets.


Not that I want to disagree with this fine piece of document or to cause a heated discussion but I still have not seen this enforced in my area (by no means complaining just observation). Many of my co-workers are moving off of Comcast because they are buying HD tv's and want more PQ and so far none are at the 5-8 tuners. They are all getting the SWM installed without request. Can there be a market specific thing to this cause it seems that its posted over and over on this site that its the rule but not everywhere in the US. I have visited other site where something different has been posted as the rule.

Please be gentle. :)

[RobertE]

Not that I want to disagree with this fine piece of document or to cause a heated discussion but I still have not seen this enforced in my area (by no means complaining just observation). Many of my co-workers are moving off of Comcast because they are buying HD tv's and want more PQ and so far none are at the 5-8 tuners. They are all getting the SWM installed without request. Can there be a market specific thing to this cause it seems that its posted over and over on this site that its the rule but not everywhere in the US. I have visited other site where something different has been posted as the rule.

Please be gentle. :)

It's possible that some locations are just eating the cost difference in the name of efficiency.

But again, these are exceptions, not the rule.

[Movieman]

I only ask cause I have talked to many installers that have shown up in my area and they keep telling me that they are told to use this and move on to the next home. Maybe its based on demand being very high right now. Who knows.

[beavis]

Not only should this be a sticky, it should be the first one listed. Meh, the thing that irks me is people who think that installers should be familiar with the SWM5/8. Given that it's only used in commercial/MDU setups, residential installers do not need to know the inner workings of that SWM to do their job. Now if they want to learn on their own so they can start doing commercial/MDU installs, more power to them. The more knowledge the better. Buying a SWM5/8 and expecting an installer to use it is just ignorant and just plain uncool.

/$.02

[David MacLeod]

I only ask cause I have talked to many installers that have shown up in my area and they keep telling me that they are told to use this and move on to the next home. Maybe its based on demand being very high right now. Who knows.

I think that ties directly to the efficiency aspect Robert mentioned.

[naijai]

all opposed ???

[jasonki32]

Very well written. I agree this should be a sticky.

[k2tech]

Seems that techs in certain markets are installing SWM's all the time (As per the work order) without the 5 tuner rule being in effect, and no DVR's on the order either.

Word on the street is that ALL new installs in a HD only markets will be tagged SWM after Oct 17th. Lets call it a rumor for now....I have no verification.

[BattleZone]

Obviously there are always exceptions and certainly DirecTV is constantly changing their business rules as the business evolves. Still, the rules I listed affect the vast majority of customers at this time, and IMO this will help to set peoples' expectations properly.

For the last year or more, people have been "recommending" SWM technology to people here without bothering to mention any of the rules or limitations, which sets up false expectations and causes problems for everyone. I wrote this to help reduce that as much as possible.

And, thanks for the support, folks. :)

[rudeney]

I agree that this is well-written and valuable information, but some of it seems to worded as "official D* policy" and that may or may not be accurate. For example, regarding the phrases about D* not supporting customer-installed SWM equipment, how do we know this is true? There is no wording in the officially published D* documentation for their Protection Plan that indicates they don't support customer-installed SWM's. In fact, the way it is worded, if the refused to support it, they would be in default of the protection plan contract.

[dsw2112]

Nicely done Battlezone, this should reduce the misunderstandings about SWM.

[rabid_hobbit]

There is no wording in the officially published D* documentation for their Protection Plan that indicates they don't support customer-installed SWM's.

What is Not Covered: (1) Incidental or consequential damages; (2)
Intentional acts or criminal acts by you, damage from accident, abuse,
misuse, introduction of foreign objects into the product, unauthorized
product modifications or alterations, failure to follow the
manufacturer's instructions, third-party actions (fire, collision,
vandalism, loss, theft, etc.);

[rudeney]

What is Not Covered: (1) Incidental or consequential damages; (2)
Intentional acts or criminal acts by you, damage from accident, abuse,
misuse, introduction of foreign objects into the product, unauthorized
product modifications or alterations, failure to follow the
manufacturer's instructions, third-party actions (fire, collision,
vandalism, loss, theft, etc.);

I have to disagree - a SWM is not a "foreign object" since it is D*-branded. Installing one also would not be a modification or alteration (as it pertains to legal definition). This clause would exclude things like replacing the internal hard drive in a DVR with a larger one or adding a third-party inline amplifier to the dish.

[Canis Lupus]

Seconded.

Thirded...ed

[Drew2k]

I'm going to agree with rudeny here in that the opening post is excellent and chock-full of information, and also agree that it would be helpful to make it clear where there is official policy of DIRECTV (and cite the source) versus policies of local HSPs (which could be different around the nation) versus anecdotal evidence gleamed from posters here at DBSTalk or elsewhere.

(By the way, that's not complaining.)

[BattleZone]

I have to disagree - a SWM is not a "foreign object" since it is D*-branded.

Other DirecTV commercial parts are "D*-branded", but since they are commercial parts, DirecTV does not provide any support for them to end-users, nor do they replace those parts in the field. That's up to whomever installed those parts in the first place.

Commercial installers must purchase those parts (SWM-8s, DirecTV line amps, SWM chassis, etc.) from an authorized dealer, and any warrany is between the commercial installer and that dealer. DirecTV won't touch such an install, nor will they replace those components.

A SWM LNB is a bit of a gray area, though accounts that are getting SWMs installed through official channels are flagged, so doing so on your own will be noticed if you call for service.

But a SWM-8 puts you in "support it yourself" territory, as now you're dealing with commercial gear.

[joe diamond]

Yup, Me too!

Just because stuff exists does not mean DTV will pay for its' use. The FREE installation has been distorted out of recognition. This eq just adds to the smoke.

Best one = "Ok so there is no line of sight.......just leave me 500 feet of cable for when I cut the trees. I'll run the cable and ask for you to come back with the dish and receivers."

OR

"I promise never to call DTV to mention problems with this SWM rig if you will just get it running for me."

Joe

[Shades228]

I'm going to agree with rudeny here in that the opening post is excellent and chock-full of information, and also agree that it would be helpful to make it clear where there is official policy of DIRECTV (and cite the source) versus policies of local HSPs (which could be different around the nation) versus anecdotal evidence gleamed from posters here at DBSTalk or elsewhere.

(By the way, that's not complaining.)

Directv's official policy is easy. If it's on the work order you will have it installed. If it's not on the work order you won't.

Now we can get into what gets it on the work order but it's not really worth it.

The first post is fine as is and will answer questions on it. The sad part is people still want all the if's ands or buts in there as well which is counter productive to the post.

It would just be easier to say "if you get it you get it and if you don't you don't" but people like to post about what they did to get it.

I'd ask a mod if they'd be willing to sticky and if so get this thread locked and make a new thread that's clean.

[Drew2k]

No need to lock this thread.... Attempts to create a new thread and keep it clean will not work without extremely heavy Moderator interaction, and there will inevitably be questions about the source of the material or questions on what something means, so better to have those as part of the "record" so it's asked and answered and the conversation moves on...

[evan_s]

Each SWM module has a total of 9 “SWM Channels”, 8 for providing signals to tuners and 1 “control channel”. Thus, a Slimline dish with a SWM LNB can feed a maximum of 8 tuners, and cannot be expanded.

Small nitpick but there are 9 swm channels + the control channel. The control channel is down at 2.5 mhz and is completely different from the swm channels. The 1 swm channel that is lost is because it's fixed on providing guide data for all the receivers.

[HelenWeathers]

I'm just getting ready to set up my SWM8 and I ran across this thread.

In the first post I found the following:
• H20* and newer

What is the asterisk for? Is the H20 SWM compatible? I still have three of the H20s in use.

[dsw2112]

I'm just getting ready to set up my SWM8 and I ran across this thread.

In the first post I found the following:
• H20* and newer

What is the asterisk for? Is the H20 SWM compatible? I still have three of the H20s in use.

Yes, it's SWM compatible. The "*" means on all H20's (H20-100 through H20-700)

[CCarncross]

I believe the H20's required firmware updates, they were not good to go out of the box. Meaning needs latest NR firmware. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong.

[dsw2112]

I believe the H20's required firmware updates, they were not good to go out of the box. Meaning needs latest NR firmware. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong.

This is true of both the H20 and HR20

[dishrich]

• No 72.5 local markets.

Actually this is NOT correct anymore, since ALL 72.5 markets ARE in transition phase to MPEG4. Any new customers ALWAYS get slimline dishes & ALL MPEG4 receivers, so there are NO receiver compatibility issues with SWM.

[Stanley Kritzik]

This is true of both the H20 and HR20

I remember that I bought a never-been-used H20 from Solid Signal, and it did not work, out of the box, with my SWM8. The solution was to hook it up to a legacy port and get a firmware upgrade downloaded. Then, with up-to-date firmware, connecting it to the SWM normally was fine.

Stan

[Stanley Kritzik]

It's been a couple of years, but ... I did a self-install as an upgrade, with a Slimline dish from Solid Signal and a SWM8 from Dave29, plus other bits and pieces. The mail reason was that I had only one RG6 cable going to each of a couple of locations in the house, and I wanted a couple of 2-tuner DVR possibilities.

So, my 4 RG6 cables come from the dish plus a fifth cable for the OTA antenna. All this is handled by the SWM8 and assorted splitters and diplexers in my basement. After that, it is one RG6 cable per location with diplexers at the inputs to the receiver and OTA input.

I sure don't lose sleep over the fact that DirecTV may balk at servicing something, since all these parts are just plug in/plug out replaceable. Anyway, it has been about two years and I haven't looked back. SWM technology is great -- why DirecTV has problems furnishing it to customers who are paying $1,000 to $1,500 a year is about as bad as their policy of not letting customers request specific box models on installs and upgrades.

Stan

[rudeney]

H20's can be a bit finicky on SWM's. Also, there is a minimum software version requirement. If our H20 is active and in use, then the software version won't be an issue as it will have the latest NR that is SWM compatible. If you ever get a new (or refurb) H20, it may not have the minimum software version and unless you have a non-SWM system you can connect it to for a software download, you won't be able to get it working.

[RAD]

The biggest objection to these rules tend to come from existing customers who want a SWM but don’t qualify. The primary reason for the “new customers only” rule is to ensure that all receivers on the account are SWM compatible. DirecTV doesn’t intend to replace working receivers for free just to make them SWM compatible, and many customers would object to paying to upgrade their receivers to an equivalent but SWM-compatible version (say: R15 to R16), so presumably they decided it would be easiest to simply limit SWM equipment to new customers only.

OK, I was thinking about this reason you posted, and IMHO it's a smoke screen to not spend the $'s on SWM hardware.

DirecTV knows exactly what receiver models you have and they hopefully know which are and which aren't SWM compatible. I see no reason why on a movers install the system couldn't flag the work order saying a SWM could be installed if the database says they are compatable.

[BattleZone]

*** I've just gotten word that DirecTV has told HSPs to stop selling SWM LNBs to non-SWM-qualified customers, despite that being an option previously. Presumably that's because they wound up sending replacement equipment out to customers that wasn't SWM compatible, not knowing that those customers had SWM systems (a SWM-qualified account is flagged so that it only receives SWM-compatible equipment).

[Mike Bertelson]

Really good info and now we have a centeral location for SWM info.

Thanks, for putting it together BattleZone. :)

Mike

[hdtvfan0001]

Really good info and now we have a centeral location for SWM info.

Thanks, for putting it together BattleZone. :)

Mike
Agree - nice work!

It has sticky written all over it (and now does...). :D

[VandyCWG]

Why wouldn't "Movers Connection" qualify?

I have SWM equipment now, and if I move, I would not get SWM at the new location? That seems kinda backwards to me.

[hdtvfan0001]

Why wouldn't "Movers Connection" qualify?

I have SWM equipment now, and if I move, I would not get SWM at the new location? That seems kinda backwards to me.
No - because (per the first post), an SWM8 is planned as an MDU unit that is not supported for residential implementations, whereas an SWM LNB can be installed at residences.

I'd suggest you take the SWM8 with you to the new location if you want it there.

[RAD]

No - because (per the first post), an SWM8 is planned as an MDU unit that is not supported for residential implementations, whereas an SWM LNB can be installed at residences.

I'd suggest you take the SWM8 with you to the new location if you want it there.

He never says he has a SWM8, his sig says he has a SWMLNB. Which goes back to what I asked a few post ago, D*'s computers know exactly what hardware is active on the account and if it's SWM or not SWM compatible is there is no reason a mover shouldn't be able to get a SWM move if the account says it has the proper hardware IMHO.

[hdtvfan0001]

...if it's SWM or not SWM compatible is there is no reason a mover shouldn't be able to get a SWM move if the account says it has the proper hardware IMHO.
I'd agree with that part....but most folks don't go into signatures to inspect that level of detail. Figured when he said SWM equipment, also could apply to the SWM8 as a possiblity. DirecTV will only support the SWM LNB migration on a move, and even then....it needs to be well communicated and documented to make sure it properly happpens.

[RobertE]

*** I've just gotten word that DirecTV has told HSPs to stop selling SWM LNBs to non-SWM-qualified customers, despite that being an option previously. Presumably that's because they wound up sending replacement equipment out to customers that wasn't SWM compatible, not knowing that those customers had SWM systems (a SWM-qualified account is flagged so that it only receives SWM-compatible equipment).

Told the same thing today. :mad:

[RAD]

DirecTV will only support the SWM LNB migration on a move, and even then....it needs to be well communicated and documented to make sure it properly happpens.

From what RobertE and others have said even on a move DirecTV won't install a SWMLNB, only a new install that fits the profile.

[Shades228]

This is another reason SWM 8's I'm leary about telling people to buy SWM 8's. The system doesn't know and they can get non SWM equipment.

[hdtvfan0001]

From what RobertE and others have said even on a move DirecTV won't install a SWMLNB, only a new install that fits the profile.
My neighbor just got one in May, and he was not a new install.

Also...when you have one currently, those circumstances are different. Under the moving plan, you are not supposed to get any less of a setup in the new location, so an SWM LNB would be in order if one is there in the current location.

[Shades228]

From what RobertE and others have said even on a move DirecTV won't install a SWMLNB, only a new install that fits the profile.


This is that area where you get into what's policy and what gets done. The policy is no SWM on movers at this time.

[hdtvfan0001]

This is that area where you get into what's policy and what gets done. The policy is no SWM on movers at this time.
That would make a decision easy for me - since I have 2 SWM units that I own...I'd be looking for my screwdriver and wrench. :D

No way I'd leave them behind.

If they are leased for the OP...he may indeed have a problem.

[RAD]

My neighbor just got one in May, and he was not a new install.

Also...when you have one currently, those circumstances are different. Under the moving plan, you are not supposed to get any less of a setup in the new location, so an SWM LNB would be in order if one is there in the current location.

This is that area where you get into what's policy and what gets done. The policy is no SWM on movers at this time.
I totally understand since my son got a SWMLNB on a new install that didn't fit the profile and when he moved 3 months later also got a SWMLNB.

I only bring it up since installers have been vocal about not expecting SWMLNB's unless you fit within the DirecTV rules for getting one and a reason they give it DirecTV doesn't know what receivers a customer has which I say is BS. I know the installers are getting caught in the middle here but to me it makes no sense that DirecTV rules say no SWMLNB on a move even when their systems know all the receivers are SWM compatible.

[RobertE]

My neighbor just got one in May, and he was not a new install.

Also...when you have one currently, those circumstances are different. Under the moving plan, you are not supposed to get any less of a setup in the new location, so an SWM LNB would be in order if one is there in the current location.

Without seeing the hardcopy workorder, I'd say it was the techs choice to use it. The only thing wrong with that is now the wire scheme in DirecTvs computers don't reflect a SWiM setup, so if/when it's time to replace a D or R series box, he stands a chance of getting a D11 or R15. Fun times.

[RAD]

That would make a decision easy for me - since I have 2 SWM units that I own...I'd be looking for my screwdriver and wrench. :D

No way I'd leave them behind.

If they are leased for the OP...he may indeed have a problem.

That would be mine also, the two SWM8's installed and the one spare I have.

[BattleZone]

My neighbor just got one in May, and he was not a new install.

In a system with 18 million customers, you can always show examples of exceptions to the rule, but DirecTV is cracking down on their HSPs putting in SWMs when they don't appear on the work order. In many places, techs are being charged back for missing SWMs, or having to go back to SWM jobs and re-do them as legacy installs. Given that, it looks like DirecTV is flexing its muscles to make sure that techs are following the rules.

It's also why I caution people that if they convert themselves to a SWM sytem, they should expect to be on their own, because given this crackdown, many techs are going to refuse to work on systems with SWMs that aren't flagged to have them. It's unfortunate, but that's the system that the techs have to work under.

[hdtvfan0001]

It's also why I caution people that if they convert themselves to a SWM sytem, they should expect to be on their own, because given this crackdown, many techs are going to refuse to work on systems with SWMs that aren't flagged to have them. It's unfortunate, but that's the system that the techs have to work under.
If you own your own....its a non-issue. Take it with you.

[dsw2112]

This is another reason SWM 8's I'm leary about telling people to buy SWM 8's. The system doesn't know and they can get non SWM equipment.

I would be more leary of telling them to buy a SWMLnb (if it wasn't done through D*) -- SWM8's have legacy ports than can be easily expanded for legacy equipment. You can also put a standard multiswitch in parallel with a SWM8 should you wish to do so.

[hdtvfan0001]

I would be more leary of telling them to buy a SWMLnb (if it wasn't done through D*) -- SWM8's have legacy ports than can be easily expanded for legacy equipment. You can also put a standard multiswitch in parallel with a SWM8 should you wish to do so.
I'm with him on that. :D

[BattleZone]

If you own your own....its a non-issue. Take it with you.

Of course you can do that, but if you need a tech out for some other reason, they may refuse to work on your system because you have a SWM in your non-SWM-flagged system. Techs are responsible for *everything* in a system on every job they touch, and with this change in policy from DirecTV, it could mean a tech being charged back if they were the last tech at that location. The techs who know this, or figure it out, will see a SWM and refuse the job.

Perhaps the customer can get their accout flagged as a SWM account and reschedule, and maybe not; I don't know. What I do know is that it's going to be a hassle for some folks, and they should be prepared for that, right or wrong.

[hdtvfan0001]

Of course you can do that, but if you need a tech out for some other reason, they may refuse to work on your system because you have a SWM in your non-SWM-flagged system. Techs are responsible for *everything* in a system on every job they touch, and with this change in policy from DirecTV, it could mean a tech being charged back if they were the last tech at that location. The techs who know this, or figure it out, will see a SWM and refuse the job.
Very true.

I have confirmed on 3 occasions mine is flagged...but yes, some of the techs out there still don't even know what an SWM8 is.

Your point is well taken.

[Shades228]

That would make a decision easy for me - since I have 2 SWM units that I own...I'd be looking for my screwdriver and wrench. :D

No way I'd leave them behind.

If they are leased for the OP...he may indeed have a problem.

No dish is leased they're all owned. DirecTV tells you to leave the dish when you move or cancel service. So if you chose to take it that's your choice. Just don't expect the installer to use it if it wasn't on the work order as he can fail a QA for it.

I totally understand since my son got a SWMLNB on a new install that didn't fit the profile and when he moved 3 months later also got a SWMLNB.

I only bring it up since installers have been vocal about not expecting SWMLNB's unless you fit within the DirecTV rules for getting one and a reason they give it DirecTV doesn't know what receivers a customer has which I say is BS. I know the installers are getting caught in the middle here but to me it makes no sense that DirecTV rules say no SWMLNB on a move even when their systems know all the receivers are SWM compatible.

A blanket policy is easier to deal with then a situational policy. People always think they deserve whatever they feel like. Every tech out there would love to swap all the customers non SWM equipment out to do a SWM install every time. It would save them time and they wouldn't have to listen to the customer complain about lines outside and holes drilled.

For every SWM installed it limits the equipment options DirecTV has on an account. It's going to be a long time before they stop reconditioning D11's and R15's. Until then they're going to stick to these rules to help cut down costs of new equipment orders as much as possible.

Don't forget a lot of people out there still have non branded DirecTV receivers as well. Some people will have many receivers installed but then deactivate owned receivers after the installation is over. Then they don't know these have to be activated for the system to catch them on the work order so they can be installed on a movers.

[RAD]

A blanket policy is easier to deal with then a situational policy. People always think they deserve whatever they feel like. Every tech out there would love to swap all the customers non SWM equipment out to do a SWM install every time. It would save them time and they wouldn't have to listen to the customer complain about lines outside and holes drilled.

For every SWM installed it limits the equipment options DirecTV has on an account. It's going to be a long time before they stop reconditioning D11's and R15's. Until then they're going to stick to these rules to help cut down costs of new equipment orders as much as possible.

OK, still not understanding the problem with a current SWM customer not being able to get a SWM on a mover? You say that the account would be flagged as having all SWM compatible receivers on it if they got a SWM install. So they place an order for a movers connection, taking all their SWM compatible receivers with them, nothing to repleace, no new receivers. So I don't see where your argument for having to replace equipment is coming from. Yes, I can see the problem if it's a non-SWM mover wanting a SWM, but we're not talking about that, it's a current SWM install moving, where's the problem?

[hdtvfan0001]

OK, still not understanding the problem with a current SWM customer not being able to get a SWM on a mover? You say that the account would be flagged as having all SWM compatible receivers on it if they got a SWM install. So they place an order for a movers connection, taking all their SWM compatible receivers with them, nothing to repleace, no new receivers. So I don't see where your argument for having to replace equipment is coming from. Yes, I can see the problem if it's a non-SWM mover wanting a SWM, but we're not talking about that, it's a current SWM install moving, where's the problem?
Good question you have asked <in a Yoda voice> :D

[Shades228]

OK, still not understanding the problem with a current SWM customer not being able to get a SWM on a mover? You say that the account would be flagged as having all SWM compatible receivers on it if they got a SWM install. So they place an order for a movers connection, taking all their SWM compatible receivers with them, nothing to repleace, no new receivers. So I don't see where your argument for having to replace equipment is coming from. Yes, I can see the problem if it's a non-SWM mover wanting a SWM, but we're not talking about that, it's a current SWM install moving, where's the problem?


The problem is a blanket policy is going to be system enforced. It also causes confusion for customers and techs. "Why did my (acquantance) get this and I didn't". People don't care what the reasons are they care about what they want. I'm not saying you don't have a valid reason I'm saying that they made the policy so that if it was enforced universally there wouldn't be as many issues. The amount of non SWM installations is much smaller.

We're also arguing over policy and not, as we've all read, is sometimes practiced. The policy is expectation setting that's what it boils down to if someone doesn't get it for whatever reason then DirecTV is covered.

[Shades228]

Good question you have asked <in a Yoda voice> :D

If you had put "Asked question good you have." I think I would have read it naturally in that voice :lol:

[RAD]

The problem is a blanket policy is going to be system enforced. It also causes confusion for customers and techs. "Why did my (acquantance) get this and I didn't". People don't care what the reasons are they care about what they want. I'm not saying you don't have a valid reason I'm saying that they made the policy so that if it was enforced universally there wouldn't be as many issues. The amount of non SWM installations is much smaller.

We're also arguing over policy and not, as we've all read, is sometimes practiced. The policy is expectation setting that's what it boils down to if someone doesn't get it for whatever reason then DirecTV is covered.

Can you please expand on what you mean by "system enforced". Are you talking about the automated system that generates the work orders or the system of installation companies that DirecTV uses?

On the reason of why did my acquantance get this and I didn't, doesn't that same reason hold true for ANY DirecTV install, why did he get a SWM install (he had an install that fit the rules) and I didn't (got a SD DVR not HD and don't want two coax runs).

As I understand you don't set policy, just following it, but since this is a discussion forum it's fair game to b*tch about it being a stupid policy as it stand now.

[hdtvfan0001]

I'd agree that a consistent policy for deployment, as well as how movers are handled makes perfect business sense.

Its the actual policy content itself that appears to have some "differences of opinion" here.

[RAD]

I'd agree that a consistent policy for deployment, as well as how movers are handled makes perfect business sense.

Its the actual policy content itself that appears to have some "differences of opinion" here.

But the move policy makes things appear to be inconsistent. A mover asks why did I only need one cable and hole drilled in the wall at my old location but now you say I need two holes and cables to connect my HD DVR, for a customer that's not consistent.

[Shades228]

Can you please expand on what you mean by "system enforced". Are you talking about the automated system that generates the work orders or the system of installation companies that DirecTV uses?

On the reason of why did my acquantance get this and I didn't, doesn't that same reason hold true for ANY DirecTV install, why did he get a SWM install (he had an install that fit the rules) and I didn't (got a SD DVR not HD and don't want two coax runs).

As I understand you don't set policy, just following it, but since this is a discussion forum it's fair game to b*tch about it being a stupid policy as it stand now.

If any company has a blanket policy the system will enforce it so yes the work order system is what will place equipment on order based on order type and equipment needed.

Yes it does hold true but the expectation should have been there. You didn't order HD you won't get SWM. You only listed 2 receivers so you wouldn't get a SWM. However knowing that it could work in your situation you can be upset if the correct equipment was installed that would work with a SWM.

Also remember that not all orders were installed with SWM by the policy. So some customers who had SWM's but only had 2 receivers wouldn't qualify again if they moved because it shouldn't have happened. It's also about cost control. If SWM are only for new customers and they can project new customer installations and equipment needs then they will only order XXX amount of SWM's.

In a perfect scenario everyone would get one and there wouldn't be limitations. However I wouldn't want to pay for that perfect world either on my monthly bill.

[VandyCWG]

Is the SWM equipment leased? Could I just take it with me?

[paragon]

Reconditioning D11s and R15s seems like such a waste of effort. I would think DirecTV would want to get as many customers as possible migrated to SWM-compatible receivers, just like they want to get everyone possible migrated to MPEG4 receivers.

[RobertE]

Reconditioning D11s and R15s seems like such a waste of effort. I would think DirecTV would want to get as many customers as possible migrated to SWM-compatible receivers, just like they want to get everyone possible migrated to MPEG4 receivers.

One day yes. That day is not today however.

Personally, I don't see a true start to an all Mpeg4 conversion until if/when the whole home media system is introduced.

[dsw2112]

Perhaps the customer can get their accout flagged as a SWM account and reschedule, and maybe not; I don't know...

I have confirmed on 3 occasions mine is flagged...but yes, some of the techs out there still don't even know what an SWM8 is.

I guess this would be a good question to resolve as well: can a customer get D* to change the SWM flag on their account if the SWM is self-installed? HDTVFan - is your setup a DIY SWM?

[rudeney]

Not that I'm planning to move anytime soon, but personally, I would not want a SWM LNB dish because it's far too limiting. I'd much rather keep the setup I have now with a traditional 4-output LNB with a SWM8 in parallel with a WB68. I only have one SD receiver (an R15) so non-SWM compatibility is not really an issue for me, but this gives me maximum flexibility. If I were to add any more HD receivers, I'd likely drop in another SWM8.

[bluemoon737]

*** I've just gotten word that DirecTV has told HSPs to stop selling SWM LNBs to non-SWM-qualified customers, despite that being an option previously. Presumably that's because they wound up sending replacement equipment out to customers that wasn't SWM compatible, not knowing that those customers had SWM systems (a SWM-qualified account is flagged so that it only receives SWM-compatible equipment).


So are you saying if you have 4 HR's on your account and you do a mover's connection you won't get SWM? Good thing my install was on the 10th of this month (mover's connection) as I would no longer be a DirecTV customer without a SWM LNB install.

[bluemoon737]

Of course you can do that, but if you need a tech out for some other reason, they may refuse to work on your system because you have a SWM in your non-SWM-flagged system. Techs are responsible for *everything* in a system on every job they touch, and with this change in policy from DirecTV, it could mean a tech being charged back if they were the last tech at that location. The techs who know this, or figure it out, will see a SWM and refuse the job.

Perhaps the customer can get their accout flagged as a SWM account and reschedule, and maybe not; I don't know. What I do know is that it's going to be a hassle for some folks, and they should be prepared for that, right or wrong.


And in this case DirecTV loses a customer because the tech won't work on it so what is the customer to do but vote with his dollars. Silly rules by DirecTV IMHO.

[dsw2112]

Not that I'm planning to move anytime soon, but personally, I would not want a SWM LNB dish because it's far too limiting. I'd much rather keep the setup I have now with a traditional 4-output LNB with a SWM8 in parallel with a WB68. I only have one SD receiver (an R15) so non-SWM compatibility is not really an issue for me, but this gives me maximum flexibility. If I were to add any more HD receivers, I'd likely drop in another SWM8.

The SWMLnb V SWM8 can be a real dilemma for some based on posts on the site, and comments from neighbors in my area. SWMLnb is obviously the only D* supported install in a residential situation, but there are folks who would like to purchase a SWMLnb through D*, and also utilize more than 8 tuners, OTA, legacy gear, or all of the above. A two dish solution aside this doesn't leave many options for the non DIY'er, and puts techs in a bind when someone replaces their multiswitch with a SWM8 (but still wants support.)

Personally I think the SWM8 is a terrific answer for those seeking to customize their setup. They key word being "custom"; I think subscribers would be willing to pay a high price if the SWM8 was a line item in the custom work section, and thus became a supported part of their setup.

I know, will prob never happen but while I'm dreaming imagine a new D* receiver with OTA support and a built in diplexor! Then utilizing a SWM8 with OTA will be the ultimate single wire solution!

[rudeney]

I know, will prob never happen but while I'm dreaming imagine a new D* receiver with OTA support and a built in diplexor! Then utilizing a SWM8 with OTA will be the ultimate single wire solution!

While were dreaming, how about doing away with "wire" altogether. Put a wireless transmitter in the dish, and wireless receivers in the IRD's. I just installed a Sirius Echo in my house and it's been great - no more worries about line-of-sight with the antenna on my SUBX1 boom boxes. I know the technology for Sirius is much simpler, but I'd love to see something like that for D*.

[hdtvfan0001]

I guess this would be a good question to resolve as well: can a customer get D* to change the SWM flag on their account if the SWM is self-installed? HDTVFan - is your setup a DIY SWM?
Both SWM units are, and were confirmed in their records on 3 occasions - all phone calls.

[randyk47]

I too have had DirecTV confirm my self-installed SWM-8. It came up in a discussion of programming changes and the CSR verbally noted that I had either a SWM LNB or SWM-8 installed as they were picking it up through the phone connection.

[dsw2112]

Both SWM units are, and were confirmed in their records on 3 occasions - all phone calls.

If I would have looked in your setup I'd have realized they were DIY SWM (a little slow sometimes...) What was necessary on your part to update your SWM flag -- just a simple phone call to a CSR?

[hdtvfan0001]

If I would have looked in your setup I'd have realized they were DIY SWM (a little slow sometimes...) What was necessary on your part to update your SWM flag -- just a simple phone call to a CSR?
Same as Randyk47 in post above.

[dsw2112]

I too have had DirecTV confirm my self-installed SWM-8. It came up in a discussion of programming changes and the CSR verbally noted that I had either a SWM LNB or SWM-8 installed as they were picking it up through the phone connection.

Hmm, no such luck on my part. I've got a self-installed SWM8 with phone lines connected, receivers networked, and internet access. Swapped out R22 recently and received R15. I didn't know about the SWM flag until after the swap, but I'll need to call and see if I can get it active for the future...

[BattleZone]

Updated the first post to reflect the new policy on non-qualified/custom work SWM upgrades. Changes in red.

[FussyBob]

I have an 18 inch dish, 2 legacy Sony receivers (they will be trashed). I installed the system 12 years ago, a tech has never been here.

Going to go with new HD install, 2 - HD22 DVRs, 1 - H1 receivers. Thus everything old (dish, receivers) will be removed and new ones installed.

Is this still considered an upgrade and thus no SWMLNB install, or is this considered a new install and a SWMLNB will be provided?


I'm just asking this question to clarify what is considered a "new" install for others that may have a setup like mine.



I plan on doing the new HD install myself, SWM5LNB with splitter about $100.

2 - HD22s and 1 H21 from Best Buy - $500.

So I get what I want, install the dish where I want it, run the outdoor wiring in a professional maner, and only run 1 cable to each receiver from my splitter in the basement up through the walls for $600 and my time. If the dish dies, I get another one for $85, if the receivers die D* still replaces them because they are leased! I think that $600 is a bargain for the DIY!

I'll most likely be with them for 10 more years so that's comes out to about $5 per month......peanuts.

[BattleZone]

New = brand new customer who has never had DirecTV.

Your install is an upgrade, and won't qualify for a SWM system.

[esiebel]

This is true of both the H20 and HR20

In Reply to your post 2187156
I believe the H20's required firmware updates, they were not good to go out of the box. Meaning needs latest NR firmware. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong.

This is true of both the H20 and HR20

I was a new customer last February and qualified for a SWM setup. I am currently running with two receivers and a HD DVR from DirecTV.

I have a HR20-100s unit from (or branded by) TiVo which has not been used for some time and never in a SWM setup. I tried to use it when I activated DirecTV service and got complete confusion from the CSRs (several of them). The installation tech said it could not be used with a SWM.

That advice seems contrary to what I've read here. Is there some way to use my older HR20 DVR with the SWM antenna?

Also, if a firmware upgrade is needed, how do I go about accomplishing that?

Thanks.

[randyk47]

Well, not to take the side of DirecTV CSR's but you've confused me too. A TiVo branded HR20-100? Maybe I'm missing something but I didn't know there was such a receiver. Yes, I've heard of TiVo and I have two HR20-100's but they're not TiVo's. Aren't the TiVo's considered legacy equipment and therefore would only work with a SWM setup if it was a SWM-8 system with the TiVo hooked up to the legacy output? Legacy equipment won't work with a SWM LNB.

[jpitlick]

In Reply to your post 2187156


I was a new customer last February and qualified for a SWM setup. I am currently running with two receivers and a HD DVR from DirecTV.

I have a HR20-100s unit from (or branded by) TiVo which has not been used for some time and never in a SWM setup. I tried to use it when I activated DirecTV service and got complete confusion from the CSRs (several of them). The installation tech said it could not be used with a SWM.

That advice seems contrary to what I've read here. Is there some way to use my older HR20 DVR with the SWM antenna?

Also, if a firmware upgrade is needed, how do I go about accomplishing that?

Thanks.

Are you sure that your "TiVo branded HR20-100" is not really an HR10-250?

[randyk47]

And, as far as I know, the HR10-250 is not SWM capable and would not be supported by the SWM LNB so the CSR's confusion is understandable.

[dsw2112]

There are no current Directivo units that work with SWM signals, they are legacy receivers. An HR20 is not a Tivo and will work with SWM, just double check what you've got.

[esiebel]

Are you sure that your "TiVo branded HR20-100" is not really an HR10-250?

You're right! Helps to go to the source. Unpacked the box that the kids had the unit stored in and . . . behold! An HR10-250. Wonder how they got a box for an HR250-100.

Thanks to you, randyk47 and dsw2112 for helping to clear that up.

[randyk47]

The bottom line is that if you're running a SWM LNB then the HR10-250 is basically a door stop. No telling how it got into an HR20-100 box unless somebody switched boxes by accident when they were packaging it. Where did the kids get the TiVo?

[Stadtmann]

Don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but I have to ask. I currently have two D11s and one HR20-100. If I were to replace the two D11s with R22s, that means that I would have six tuners. If I then pay for the professional installation, how do they NOT install a SWM on my system? What other way is there to provide me with 6 tuners? :confused:

[HRJustin]

Don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but I have to ask. I currently have two D11s and one HR20-100. If I were to replace the two D11s with R22s, that means that I would have six tuners. If I then pay for the professional installation, how do they NOT install a SWM on my system? What other way is there to provide me with 6 tuners? :confused:

A legacy WB68 multiswitch that would need two coax to each DVR.

[rudeney]

Don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but I have to ask. I currently have two D11s and one HR20-100. If I were to replace the two D11s with R22s, that means that I would have six tuners. If I then pay for the professional installation, how do they NOT install a SWM on my system? What other way is there to provide me with 6 tuners? :confused:

:welcome_s to DBSTalk!

If you really want a SWM system, and can't DIY, you could buy the equipment yourself and then ask the technician to install it. Or, look for a private installation company/D* reseller in your area and pay them do do it all for you.

[kenfink]

How do know which slimline dish you have? I'm using a hr20 with 2 feeds going to it, but would like to buy a hr23! Thank you.

[BattleZone]

How do know which slimline dish you have? I'm using a hr20 with 2 feeds going to it, but would like to buy a hr23! Thank you.

The Slimline dish itself is the same; the difference is the LNB that's installed.

SL3 - Slimline LNB 3 (one "triple" feedhorn)
SL3-S - SWM version of the above

SL5 - Slimline LNB 5 (one "triple" feedhorn and 2 single feedhorns)
SL5-S - SWM version of the above

The SL3 and SL5 LNBs have 4 output connectors, while the SWM versions have just a single connector.

Since you have 2 lines running to your DVR, you certainly have the non-SWM LNB, and if your dish was installed more than a year ago, you almost certainly have the SL5 LNB.

[gusmahler]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you live in one of the top 20 (or so) TV markets, you have no need for an SL5, right?

[BattleZone]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you live in one of the top 20 (or so) TV markets, you have no need for an SL5, right?

Currently, aside from 6 (?) remaining "legacy" MPEG2/down-rezzed HD channels, which will be removed soon, you only need an SL5 LNB if you:

- subscribe to Spanish-language programming
- subscribe to the Chinese-language "Jade World" package
- live in a market where the SD locals come from 119 (tends to be smaller DMAs)

It appears more certain that DirecTV will be reallocating the transponder space freed up by deleting the legacy HD channels to mirror the International channels in the near future. That will mean that new International installs will simply get the SL5 LNB instead of a second, separate dish.

[texasbrit]

Currently, aside from 6 (?) remaining "legacy" MPEG2/down-rezzed HD channels, which will be removed soon, you only need an SL5 LNB if you:

- subscribe to Spanish-language programming
- subscribe to the Chinese-language "Jade World" package
- live in a market where the SD locals come from 119 (tends to be smaller DMAs)

.
....or if you want the Hope channel, which is also on 119....

[psyclguy]

DirecTV’s “Custom Work Price Sheet”, as updated on 2/28/2009, lists a SWM LNB upgrade option as custom work that a customer can request. HSP techs should all carry copies of this price sheet and customers should get a copy when any custom work is performed. The price for the SWM LNB upgrade is $136, and does not include receiver swaps, which would be an extra expense. This might seem pricey, but it is the only official, supported way to get a SWM if you don’t otherwise qualify for one.*

* As of 8/17/09, DirecTV has removed this option.

I'm new to this thread so I just want to confirm that D* doesn't offer the “Custom Work Price Sheet” option anymore. They refuse to install the SWM-8 but I would pay for the SWM LNB.

[Shades228]

I'm new to this thread so I just want to confirm that D* doesn't offer the “Custom Work Price Sheet” option anymore. They refuse to install the SWM-8 but I would pay for the SWM LNB.

It was removed as of now. That's not to say it won't come back at some point but right now it's not an option for custom labor.

[dracozny]

I'm new to this thread so I just want to confirm that D* doesn't offer the “Custom Work Price Sheet” option anymore. They refuse to install the SWM-8 but I would pay for the SWM LNB.

swm 8's are not provided in my DMA. if your needing an upgrade and want all swm you are at the mercy of the tech, its up to him assuming he/she knows how to reconfigure the workorder which 99% of techs only know to call the instant mod line which will always refuse to do a SWM on an upgrade.

new policies in effect toward the end of october is all new customers getting HD will have a swm3 or swm5 LNB. if your market is overbooked and you are waiting a month you may possibly get a non swm system instead unless you have 5-8 tuners. in excess of 8 tuners you will have a conventional install since swm8 multiswitches are not issued in most markets.

[biggie4852]

swm 8's are not provided in my DMA. if your needing an upgrade and want all swm you are at the mercy of the tech, its up to him assuming he/she knows how to reconfigure the workorder which 99% of techs only know to call the instant mod line which will always refuse to do a SWM on an upgrade.

new policies in effect toward the end of october is all new customers getting HD will have a swm3 or swm5 LNB. if your market is overbooked and you are waiting a month you may possibly get a non swm system instead unless you have 5-8 tuners. in excess of 8 tuners you will have a conventional install since swm8 multiswitches are not issued in most markets.
I had a problem with a HR21/700 box and a DTV sent a tech guy out to fix it. I'm a 10+ year customer with 4 DTV HD DVR and 1 HD TIVO. I ask the tech guy about a SWM he said no, so I had him call the supervisor and he said no to getting a SWM also. Half hour later here comes some CS guy riding around checking the tech work and he ask me if every thing was being done to my satisfaction. So i said yes but I'd like a SWM install plus that this would help the tech guy by not have to run as much wire , he also said no but politely.
I was told they are having problems with SWM installs and having to send tech guys back out when they do installed them and of course the units cost more. Now the strange part is the tech guy spent 8 hours at my house running new wire all through the house to my 5 HD boxes. I was told DTV allows him to upgrade my home wiring to a 3GHz Digital Coaxial Cable RG6/U. My home was pre-wire with 1 GHz cooper over steel cable and he said it was not allowing full HD transmission which was causing my boxes to pause and lose the signal. Now this man did a great job and really conceal all the wiring work where there is exposed wires. I now have two Zinwell WB68 in the attic and can run both turners on eight HD DVR'S. So I guess this is as if a SWM was installed. Oh and this was all with no charge for a complete custom installation..

[dsw2112]

I was told they are having problems with SWM installs and having to send tech guys back out when they do installed them and of course the units cost more.

Most of the techs I've met have a very limited knowledge base with regards to SWM. I'd bet that any problems they're having are due to their lack of familiarity with the setup. The SWMLnb had some cold weather issues when it was first introduced, but have appeared as realiable as standard setups since that point.

[BattleZone]

I had a problem with a HR21/700 box and a DTV sent a tech guy out to fix it. I'm a 10+ year customer with 4 DTV HD DVR and 1 HD TIVO.

There's no way DirecTV can install you with a SWM currently. SWM LNBs support only 8 tuners (you have 10), and your HR10-250 doesn't support SWM technology anyway.

[BattleZone]

Updated new rules:

As of mid October 2009, all NEW installs with HD and no internationals, with 8 tuners or less, will qualify for a SWM install, subject to inventory on hand, of course.

This is considered "Phase I" of a progression which will eventually phase non-SWM equipment out of use. Future phases will relax the restrictions on existing customers, presumably allowing receiver swaps when necessary. I'm sure there will be some rules/restrictions on that as well, but no info is available on that yet.

[BattleZone]

Another update:

It looks like there are going to be some very positive changes affecting EXISTING subscribers as well. Many folks are going to be very happy...

[rudeney]

Another update:

It looks like there are going to be some very positive changes affecting EXISTING subscribers as well. Many folks are going to be very happy...

Everyone is getting a new dish a SWM16, all legacy receivers upgraded to HD-DVR's, plus free months of Showtime? :lol:

[BattleZone]

I said happy, not ecstatic. :) But it's very good news.

[rudeney]

So, why keep us in the dark???? Spill it! :lol:

[hdtvfan0001]

Thread gone wild....:D

[BattleZone]

I will as soon as I can; right now, it's confidential, though I'm sure the news is going to spread quickly.

[Drew2k]

I will as soon as I can; right now, it's confidential, though I'm sure the news is going to spread quickly.My sister and brother-in-law are going to contract on their first home soon and will be new DIRECTV customers, so hearing from you above that SWM will become "standard" is great news - thanks for sharing that. Hopefully this other confidential news will also be of great benefit to them ... :)

[hdtvfan0001]

If indeed SWM8, SWMLNB, and SWM16 units become the "standard", DirecTV is making a smart move.

This will allow them to get more HD DVR's out there (you could then put one anyplace in a home, with only one coax needed) - that's the main thing they're about.

In addition, based on the DECA technology that is featured in the recent DBSTalk First Look, it is obvious that the next step is to roll our some form of that DECA networking capability so that more users can take advantage of Internet and network-based services.

It all makes sense.

[alhurricane]

I am moving into a new home and having an install done through the Mover's Connection. I already have two HD-DVRs (HR20 and HR21) and am adding a third HD-DVR. The house is already pre-wired for cable. Any chance that I will qualify for a SWM given I have three HD-DVRs?

If no, do I just have to put up with a lot of wires being run along the side of my house? If so, that is not a very appealing option.

Thanks for dealing with this newbie question. Although I have been a DirecTV customer for years, this tech stuff eludes me.

[rudeney]

Hopefully, BattleZone's top-secret news will include SWM's for movers, but right now, that's not the case. D*'s official stance is still that mover's don't qualify for WM systems. However, maybe one of two things will happen. Either the rules will change before your install, or you can talk the installer into a SWM.

[snimmons1010]

I'm hearing SWM for New Installs and Qualifying Upgrades.....Not hearing anything for former (movers) installs. Supposed to hear some new news on monday.

[alhurricane]

Well I am upgrading to another HD-DVR. Hopefully that will help. Thanks everybody!

[texasbrit]

The news is posted here http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=166394

[Valve1138]

SWM was an available option for my movers install a couple weeks ago. I asked the installer since I was curious. He said they carry the SWM-LNB's and can use them when they choose/need to. Went with a non-SWM install instead.

1 HD-DVR and 4 HD boxes.

I'm in the Roanoke, VA area.

[alhurricane]

Well I had a successful Movers Connection install today with a SWM. I brought 2 HD DVRs with me and added a third. Once the installer saw the house was prewired for cable, he immediately told me about the SWM and that was what he was going to use.

I was very happy to say the least!

[bb37]

Well I had a successful Movers Connection install today with a SWM.
SWM LNB not SWM-8, correct?

[alhurricane]

SWM LNB not SWM-8, correct?

I plead a little ignorance with the technology, so I am not sure. How would I know the difference?

[rudeney]

Look at your dish. If you see just one coax feed coming from it, then you have the SWM-ODU (i.e. SWM-LNB). If there are four feeds, then you have a SWM-8 module.

[spidey]

So does this get rid of the need for a PI when using a SWM 5 or SWM8? I like the idea of single coax running from the dish vs the 4 I currently have.

[spidey]

My sister and brother-in-law are going to contract on their first home soon and will be new DIRECTV customers, so hearing from you above that SWM will become "standard" is great news - thanks for sharing that. Hopefully this other confidential news will also be of great benefit to them ... :)

My neighbor had a new install done this week got the SWM LNB even though only one HD DVR and 3 other sd receivers in the house

[RobertE]

So does this get rid of the need for a PI when using a SWM 5 or SWM8? I like the idea of single coax running from the dish vs the 4 I currently have.

No. All flavors of SWiM will need a power inserter.

[tony41]

If I am upgrading to an HD DVR I wonder why Direct wont sell me the SWM ODU. Otherwise I will be required to drill a hole through my bedroom wall to connect the second wire somthing I would like to avoid.

[RAD]

If you want to buy your own you can go to a vendor like www.solidsignal.com and buy the SWiMLNB or the SWM8 switch if you want.

[FussyBob]

If I am upgrading to an HD DVR I wonder why Direct wont sell me the SWM ODU. Otherwise I will be required to drill a hole through my bedroom wall to connect the second wire somthing I would like to avoid.


http://cgi.ebay.com/SLIMLINE-DIRECTV-SWM-HD-DISH-KAKU-HDTV-w-8-BLK-3-LNB_W0QQitemZ330371204078QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item4ceba883ee


I bought from this guy on Ebay. Everything was included...

SlimLine Dish

Monopoles

AZ/EL

8 Way SWM Splitter Block

LNB-SWM

PI Power Supply

Brand New, Never Used!

All hardware needed.

Packed well, and shipped super fast.

It was an excellent+++ transaction!

[estang]

I had a bad experience with DirecTV today, and need some advice. Here's the facts:

1. I have four receivers (HD21-100, Standard D10, DVR-R15-500, HD21-100).
2. The Standard D10 is being upgraded to a HDDVR for free due to a new HDTV purchase
3. I have a 5LNB receiver outside
4. I was surprised on why I couldn't just do this myself, but it required another line to be fed to the location on the new HDTV
5. Installer was going to drill a THIRD HOLE in the side of my house (near roof) and feed it across my attice (without floor boards) and then fish it down behind my wall to accomodate the new TV
6. Sounds like a hard job. My installer thought the same & let's just say their attitude and demeanor was not very good.
7. Installer gets me tweaked on this "SWIM LINE". Sounds like it is da' Bomb, but as you experts here know: 1) It is not free 2) They don't have the equipment with them 3) They cannot authorize it without approval

To top this off DirecTV has been overbilling me for a receiver that I don't have for the last 11 months (credited) and charging me for who knows how long for a Premium Package even though I wasn't getting all of these premium channels.

Now they want to me to pay for something that is "expensive" but cannot quantify that statement.

I sent the technician away, and will try to see if the new one that shows up later this week is more confident / qualified.

To pay as much as I do for their product/service, and to be treated like this is a total joke.

If the next installer doesn't figure this out, then bye-bye DirecTV... To top it off the guy at DirecTV is recommending I purchase the equipment on ebay. Not happening....

Thoughts/advice welcome...

[dsw2112]

I had a bad experience with DirecTV today, and need some advice. Here's the facts:

1. I have four receivers (HD21-100, Standard D10, DVR-R15-500, HD21-100).
2. The Standard D10 is being upgraded to a HDDVR for free due to a new HDTV purchase

Keep in mind that the R15 is NOT SWM compatible, so a SWMLine (AKA SWMLnb) would not be viable without swapping the R15 for a R16 or higher. I'm also assuming you would be sending the D10 back to D* (it is also not SWM compatible.)

3. I have a 5LNB receiver outside
4. I was surprised on why I couldn't just do this myself, but it required another line to be fed to the location on the new HDTV.

All DVR's require two lines for both tuners to work, unless you utilize SWM. The caveaot is that not all receivers are SWM compatible...

7. Installer gets me tweaked on this "SWIM LINE". Sounds like it is da' Bomb, but as you experts here know: 1) It is not free 2) They don't have the equipment with them 3) They cannot authorize it without approval.

A SWMLine would not work in your situation (see above relating to your R15) unless the tech was prepared to swap your incompatible SWM receiver (this is not something D* generally does however...)

I recommend you view the below thread.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=166394&highlight=rules+swm

D* is likely to continue to relax the restrictions on SWM in the future, but currently you have 5 tuners and will be upgrading to a 6th with the implement of the HDDVR. Per the guidlines the installer was correct in running the additional line to fulfill the install. If you would really like a SWM setup a SWM8 switch would work for your situation. I'd advise pressing the issue with the next tech/his supervisor, but the SWM8 inventory is currently low (last I heard); that coupled with your low tuner count will probably exclude you from this option. On the plus side SWM8's are cheap and you could always purchase yourself!

[carl6]

SWM8 is typically not for consumer/home installation, it is intended for multiple dwelling units (MDU). SWM for 8 or fewer tuners is going to be the SWM LNB.

Whether or not the SWM LNB will be offered during a receiver addition/upgrade is going to vary on a case by case basis, in part on who the HSP is, and on inventory. Chances are pretty good that you won't get the upgrade at no cost, and might not be able to get it at all through the installer.

[anubys]

I took the easy way...needed a tech to come and fix a problem so I slipped him a little cash and he installed a SWM for me...

[dsw2112]

SWM8 is typically not for consumer/home installation, it is intended for multiple dwelling units (MDU). SWM for 8 or fewer tuners is going to be the SWM LNB.

SWM8's were intended for MDU's, but are now also approved for residential use. They're only supposed to be installed by D* if the tuner count is >8 (two SWM8's in parallel), but installing one yourself is no longer the taboo it once was. For those who want to keep legacy boxes, but still utilize SWM, this is the best option (and why it was recommended to the poster above.) Personally I love the versatility the SWM8 offers including being able to activate old legacy receivers for short periods (while relatives stay, etc.)

[OptimusPrime]

I currently have two receivers - an HR21 and an R22 w/HD. After finishing our basement, we've just placed an order for an additional HD-DVR to go downstairs. I have a Slimline dish - and I'm under the assumption the installer will be providing some type of multiswitch to add the new receiver. Any idea what they are using for this type of situation? I do have the broadband converters on my two receivers. Will I need them if a multiswitch is installed?

[dsw2112]

I currently have two receivers - an HR21 and an R22 w/HD. After finishing our basement, we've just placed an order for an additional HD-DVR to go downstairs. I have a Slimline dish - and I'm under the assumption the installer will be providing some type of multiswitch to add the new receiver. Any idea what they are using for this type of situation? I do have the broadband converters on my two receivers. Will I need them if a multiswitch is installed?

BBC's are always necessary unless you have an HR23 or a SWM system. You will receive a WB68 switch per the current upgrade procedure. See the below thread...

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=166394&highlight=rules+swm

[anubys]

SWM8's were intended for MDU's, but are now also approved for residential use. They're only supposed to be installed by D* if the tuner count is >8 (two SWM8's in parallel), but installing one yourself is no longer the taboo it once was. For those who want to keep legacy boxes, but still utilize SWM, this is the best option (and why it was recommended to the poster above.) Personally I love the versatility the SWM8 offers including being able to activate old legacy receivers for short periods (while relatives stay, etc.)

my tuner count is going from 8 to 10...the installed is coming on Saturday to install a SWM "extender"...he said I will have 4 lines coming out of the dish (instead of the current 1) and that it's a complicated install...

what the heck is the extender? what is he talking about?

[samrs]

One SWM expander plus two SWM8's equal sixteen tuners.

[TheRatPatrol]

my tuner count is going from 8 to 10...the installed is coming on Saturday to install a SWM "extender"...he said I will have 4 lines coming out of the dish (instead of the current 1) and that it's a complicated install...

what the heck is the extender? what is he talking about?
Hes might be installing one of these

one (http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=02&p=SWME4&d=DIRECTV-Quad-SWME4-Expander-for-Four-DIRECTV-SWM-Switches-%28SWME4%29&c=Multiswitches&sku=SWME4)

two (http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=02&p=SWME2&d=DIRECTV-Dual-SWME2-Expander-for-Two-DIRECTV-SWM-Switches-%28SWME2%29&c=Multiswitches&sku=SWME2)

[rudeney]

my tuner count is going from 8 to 10...the installed is coming on Saturday to install a SWM "extender"...he said I will have 4 lines coming out of the dish (instead of the current 1) and that it's a complicated install...

what the heck is the extender? what is he talking about?

It sounds like he will also be swapping out your current SWM LNB for a "traditional" 4-output LNB, and then using SWM modules that RatPatrol mentioned.

[anubys]

It sounds like he will also be swapping out your current SWM LNB for a "traditional" 4-output LNB, and then using SWM modules that RatPatrol mentioned.

ok...I see...is there a "better" set up than another? I want to know what to "insist" on :)

[Doug Brott]

ok...I see...is there a "better" set up than another? I want to know what to "insist" on :)

That's about the only way unless you'd rather they install a second dish.

[LT6463]

Introduction to SWM

In late 2007, DirecTV officially introduced a new technology for delivering signals from their “Slimline” HD-capable dish antenna to their newer satellite receivers. This technology is called Single Wire Multiswitch, or SWM (pronounced “swim”). SWMs are a major departure from the “legacy” systems which used voltage switching and tone signaling to switch between banks of transponders, a system that required a separate, unsplit coax line between an LNB or multiswitch output and each satellite tuner.

Using SWM technology, it is possible to feed up to 8 tuners (per SWM device) from a single coax, using wideband cable splitters as needed to split the line to feed one cable per receiver. Each SWM module also requires an in-line power supply to power the LNB and internal SWM switchgear.

Compatible dual-tuner receivers can use 1 or 2 SWM channels to feed one or both tuners from a single coax connected to the “SAT 1” input. The obvious advantage to this system is that in most cases it allows the use of pre-existing “cable” wiring, where typically only one line is run to each TV location. SWM even allows the use of RG59 in most cases (damaged or lower-grade RG59 may not work), which is a boon for those in older homes and buildings.

There are two different types of SWM devices: the SWM LNB and the separate SWM8 module. The SWM LNB comes in two versions: the SL3-S and the SL5-S, which are the SWM versions of the “legacy” LNBs for the Slimline dish, the SL3 and the SL5. As a rule, the SWM LNBS are the only SWM equipment DirecTV installs or supports for residential installations. The standalone SWM8 external SWM module is intended for commercial and/or MDU (multi-dwelling unit, aka apartment) DirecTV installations, and is not supplied or supported by DirecTV for residential use. More on that later.

Qualifying for SWM

While SWM is a great new technology, the system has several important limitations. The SWM LNBs have just a single coax output, and thus cannot be expanded or integrated with other orbital locations, so if you need International programming or live in an area where the SD locals still come from the 72.5 satellite, you will not qualify for SWM equipment. Each SWM module has a total of 9 “SWM Channels”, 8 for providing signals to tuners and 1 “control channel”. Thus, a Slimline dish with a SWM LNB can feed a maximum of 8 tuners, and cannot be expanded. Finally, only newer models of DirecTV receivers support SWM technology. Those are:

• D12 and newer
• R16, R22 and newer
• H20* and newer
• HR20 and newer

Older models are not SWM compatible and cannot be made SWM compatible.

For these and other business reasons, DirecTV has created internal business rules that limit SWM equipment to the following:

• New customers only. (Upgrades and Mover’s Connections do not qualify!)
• At least 1 HD receiver.
• 5-8 tuners total.**
• No International programming.

**Mid Oct 2009, this will be changing; all *new* HD installs without Internationals with 8 or less tuners will get SWM LNBs.


The biggest objection to these rules tend to come from existing customers who want a SWM but don’t qualify. The primary reason for the “new customers only” rule is to ensure that all receivers on the account are SWM compatible. DirecTV doesn’t intend to replace working receivers for free just to make them SWM compatible, and many customers would object to paying to upgrade their receivers to an equivalent but SWM-compatible version (say: R15 to R16), so presumably they decided it would be easiest to simply limit SWM equipment to new customers only.

Important Note: No matter what an individual CSR promises you, CSRs cannot specify SWM equipment for you. They can put your request in the system notes, which may or may not get to the installer, but those notes cannot and do not override the hardware items listed on the work order, and that is what the installer must go by.

When a CSR places an order, all the CSR can do is order your receivers. They specify x number of HD-DVRs, y number of HD receivers, and so on. Based on the receivers ordered, DirecTV’s work order system generates the work order with any other needed hardware, such as dishes and/or switches. The system builds the work order based on the business rules DirecTV has created, and there’s nothing a CSR can do to override these selections. If the system says you don’t qualify for a SWM, you don’t get one.

Keep in mind that DirecTV has never advertised SWM technology or promised (at a corporate level) any customer that they were going to get SWM equipment. DirecTV’s position is that SWM equipment is for customers who qualify for it under the above rules.

How To Get A SWM System If You Don’t Qualify

There are two ways to get SWM equipment if you don’t qualify to get one as part of a standard installation.

DirecTV’s “Custom Work Price Sheet”, as updated on 2/28/2009, lists a SWM LNB upgrade option as custom work that a customer can request. HSP techs should all carry copies of this price sheet and customers should get a copy when any custom work is performed. The price for the SWM LNB upgrade is $136, and does not include receiver swaps, which would be an extra expense. This might seem pricey, but it is the only official, supported way to get a SWM if you don’t otherwise qualify for one.*

* As of 8/17/09, DirecTV has removed this option.

The other option is to buy and install your own SWM equipment.

NOTE: By installing your own SWM equipment, you are putting yourself outside the DirecTV supported system, and may be refused repair/warranty service by DirecTV’s HSP (Home Service Provider) system. HSP techs work under very stringent rules and under penalty of severe chargebacks, so most won’t touch a system that doesn’t match their paperwork, and officially-installed SWM systems are documented in the customer’s account. So, before you do this, understand: you are on your own. Do not expect support from DirecTV for your modified system.

The simplest solution is generally swapping out your existing legacy LNB with the SWM version. If your existing system has an external multiswitch (typically a Zinwell WB68), you can replace it with your SWM splitter and connect one line per receiver to the splitter. Always use a splitter with the minimum ports to connect the receivers you have (SWM splitters come in 1x2, 1x4, and 1x8 versions), and always use terminating resister caps to terminate any unused ports on your splitter. The SWM LNB has the limitations previously listed: 8 tuners max, no expansion, no support for legacy receivers, and no support for International or 72.5 markets.

The other alternative is to purchase a commercial SWM8 switch. The SWM8 is fed by running all 4 lines from a legacy Slimline LNB to the 4 main inputs on the SWM, but the SWM8 has several additional capabilities: it has 2 Flexports like a WB68, so it can support International and 72.5 markets. It also has 3 legacy ports, which will pass 101/110/119 signals to legacy receivers. (If you only need signal from 101, you can use 2 of those ports to feed a legacy switch if more legacy ports are needed). Finally, by splitting the lines from the LNB before they reach the SWM8, you can feed multiple SWM8s from a single dish, allowing multiple 8-channel SWM “legs” in your system.

Once again, the SWM8 is not intended for use in residential applications, which has several important potential consequences. If your SWM8 module fails, it will not be directly replaced by DirecTV, so it will be up to you to handle any warranty issues with the vendor you purchased it from. If you insist that DirecTV restores your system, they may replace your SWM8 system with a SWM LNB or with a legacy system, at DirecTV’s option, to get it working.

Further, most DirecTV installers have no involvement with any commercial equipment, including the SWM8, so most installers will have never seen one and will have no idea what it is or how it works, and may refuse to work on the system at all. That is the chance you take going outside the system, so please don’t blame the tech if this happens to you.

Hope this helps to clear things up.
Hi Battlezone,

I just receive the slimline version dish from DirecTV a few days. This is has only 1 wire and come with 1X8 splitter. I have SD receiver model D12-700 which when I try to install in my vacation home, just does not work. My vacation home has a older dish (6 years old may be?). My D12-700 just give me an error that it is searching for satellite signal. Do I need to get another receiver to work with an older satellite dish?

Thanks
LT6463

[Shades228]

Hi Battlezone,

I just receive the slimline version dish from DirecTV a few days. This is has only 1 wire and come with 1X8 splitter. I have SD receiver model D12-700 which when I try to install in my vacation home, just does not work. My vacation home has a older dish (6 years old may be?). My D12-700 just give me an error that it is searching for satellite signal. Do I need to get another receiver to work with an older satellite dish?

Thanks
LT6463

It will work fine as long as everything is setup correctly. I would start a new thread to get the most help as this thread is about SWM rules.

[unc8185]

I am planning an upgrade from a Phase III dish with old SD receivers (RCA UltimateTV, RCA DWD490RE) to a HD compatible system. We will have 3 HD TV's (2 new ones) and at least 1 additional analog TV. Our house is on a slab. There is only 1 wire going to each television.

What I think that I am hearing is that SWM technology will not be offered to us since we have been DTV customers since 1999. We subscribe to the Premiere package.

Questions?

1. From this information, is it true that DTV will not offer us SWM technology? Can this be part of a retention offer?

2. If not, do installers run wire within walls? We have no crawlspace and all wires run down from the attic through walls.

3. How can I insure that we get the HR-23 receivers? I really want the latest receivers.

Thanks for any information!

If SWM is not an option, the newly installed Comcast system in our neighborhood will be more appealing. Dish is also offering deals. Although DirecTV can restrict SWM technology to new customers, it seems like a big mistake. This just can't be true!

[RobertE]

I am planning an upgrade from a Phase III dish with old SD receivers (RCA UltimateTV, RCA DWD490RE) to a HD compatible system. We will have 3 HD TV's (2 new ones) and at least 1 additional analog TV. Our house is on a slab. There is only 1 wire going to each television.

What I think that I am hearing is that SWM technology will not be offered to us since we have been DTV customers since 1999. We subscribe to the Premiere package.

Questions?

1. From this information, is it true that DTV will not offer us SWM technology? Can this be part of a retention offer?

Correct, they will not offer a SWiM to you. No, it can not be part of a retention offer. (Someone of course will say it's possible, but those are exceptions to the rule, not the norm)


2. If not, do installers run wire within walls? We have no crawlspace and all wires run down from the attic through walls.

If there is access above/below, a good installer can do a wall fish. This is NOT part of a standard install and is chargeable to the customer.


3. How can I insure that we get the HR-23 receivers? I really want the latest receivers.

The only way is to go and "buy" one at a retail store like Best Buy. When I say "buy" that really means lease. Then you will have to try and get credits for the cost, which may or may not happen.


Thanks for any information!

If SWM is not an option, the newly installed Comcast system in our neighborhood will be more appealing. Dish is also offering deals. Although DirecTV can restrict SWM technology to new customers, it seems like a big mistake. This just can't be true!

It is true, there is a decent cost to them and supplies are still somewhat limited.

You could always buy one yourself online from ebay or Solid Signal. But that wouldn't be free like everyone wants either. ;)

[BattleZone]

I am planning an upgrade from a Phase III dish with old SD receivers (RCA UltimateTV, RCA DWD490RE) to a HD compatible system. We will have 3 HD TV's (2 new ones) and at least 1 additional analog TV. Our house is on a slab. There is only 1 wire going to each television.

What I think that I am hearing is that SWM technology will not be offered to us since we have been DTV customers since 1999. We subscribe to the Premiere package.

Questions?

1. From this information, is it true that DTV will not offer us SWM technology? Can this be part of a retention offer?

If you are keeping any of your legacy receivers, you will not qualify for a (free, standard) SWM install under any circumstances. Getting a SWM install from DirecTV requires that all receivers on the account are SWM compatible.

2. If not, do installers run wire within walls? We have no crawlspace and all wires run down from the attic through walls.

This is called a "wall fish", and is not done as part of a standard installation. This would be custom work, and may or may not even be possible within the scope of a tech's capabilities, depending on the layout and construction of the house.

3. How can I insure that we get the HR-23 receivers? I really want the latest receivers.

You don't get to specify anything but the class of receiver (i.e., HD-DVR). The model you get is whatever the tech who gets assigned the job has on his truck. Inventory is constantly changing and is not tracked at the model number level (on purpose; DirecTV considers all HR2x models to be equal).

You can lease receivers from a retailer (Best Buy, Costco, etc.) and thereby know what you're getting, but you won't get any discount. Plus, those retailers rarely have HR23s. The HR22 comprises 2/3 to 3/4 of current HD-DVR production, so they are more common. The only difference between the two is the wideband tuners in the HR23, which means HR23s don't need BBCs on non-SWM systems. Otherwise, they are functionally identical.

If SWM is not an option, the newly installed Comcast system in our neighborhood will be more appealing. Dish is also offering deals. Although DirecTV can restrict SWM technology to new customers, it seems like a big mistake. This just can't be true!

It absolutely can be true, and is. It makes no sense for DirecTV to pay to replace all of your non-SWM-compatible receivers with new ones just so you can use a SWM. You *do* always have the option of purchasing your own SWM-8 kit, which is now going to be covered by the Protection Plan. That will assure you a SWM, plus allow backwards compatibility for your older receivers.

[hilmar2k]

It is not impossible to get upgraded to SWM as an existing customer. I was having dish problems (or so DIRECTV thought) and they sent a tech out to replace my dish. It was pretty easy to convince the tech to install a SL3S. I then called DIRECTV and they upgraded my old DirecTivo to an R16. All at no cost....and without the protection plan.

Obviously YMMV, but my point is, it happens, and is worth the try.

[gomezma1]

I got got an installation in Nov 09 with an R-16 and asked for a SWM dish during the installation setup so I would only have one line coming into the house. The installer showed up and put up an 18" dish. I told him I only wanted one line coming in. So I hooked up another 18" dish on the other side of the house and hooked it up to the cable line coming into the house. The guy wasn't even there 30 minutes since I helped him out. I've written them to see what kind of price they will charge me to install one of these dishes.

[lgb0250]

I've got an installer that will be at my house within the hour. After talking to him on the phone I can tell there is a problem with the WO. The CSR put down "SWM requested". The installer says he has the stuff on the truck to do it but he's going to have to call D* and I'll probably have to talk to them also. Kind of tells me that I'm not gonna get it. I thought I would qualify since I've got 2- HD DVR's, 1-HD Receiver and 1 SD receiver going in. What a pain.

[anubys]

I've got an installer that will be at my house within the hour. After talking to him on the phone I can tell there is a problem with the WO. The CSR put down "SWM requested". The installer says he has the stuff on the truck to do it but he's going to have to call D* and I'll probably have to talk to them also. Kind of tells me that I'm not gonna get it. I thought I would qualify since I've got 2- HD DVR's, 1-HD Receiver and 1 SD receiver going in. What a pain.

don't panic...call the CSRs and escalate...be calm and you'll probably get what you want...

when all else fails, slip the installer a couple of $20 bills...that did the trick for me :D

[bixler]

I've got an installer that will be at my house within the hour. After talking to him on the phone I can tell there is a problem with the WO. The CSR put down "SWM requested". The installer says he has the stuff on the truck to do it but he's going to have to call D* and I'll probably have to talk to them also. Kind of tells me that I'm not gonna get it. I thought I would qualify since I've got 2- HD DVR's, 1-HD Receiver and 1 SD receiver going in. What a pain.

How'd it go?

[lgb0250]

Sorry it took so long but the guy didn't get out of here until 7:30pm and by then I was ready for some refreshments.

Guy didn't show up until after 2pm. His WO did not show the SWM install as I expected. They were also a little confused by me having my own HR23 to install.

He called a CSR and put me on the line with them and no problem what so ever (at this point). Changed the WO to show SWM install and everything was OK (for time being).

He got the first HR23 activated with no problem. Told me because my HR23 was not on the work order that I would have to call and get it activated. No big deal. I saw where we were pulling 99% on both sats. When I tried the activation there was a problem. I kept getting a red X in the Odd 103 box. I checked off that I wanted a waiver and then called to get it approved. Called the normal 800 number and after being on hold for what seemed forever a lady came on. After a little discussion she told me the reason it wasn't activating was because I didn't have a SWN install. Had to explain to her three times that yes I did and the original WO had been changed a couple of hours earlier. Then she started asking me how I got this receiver and who I bought it from. I finally lost it and told her that was none of her business and I wanted it activated. At this time she gave me another 800 number I had to call for waivers. After being on hold for 20 minutes listening to all the recorded messages about waivers I was finally connected to a tech rep that had my problem solved in less than 5 minutes.

What a day. I ended up slipping the guy a couple of 20's just for puttin up with the crap. Thanks to everyone that helped with this. Glad to be back.

[lgb0250]

Now if I could just figure out how to setup a wireless network for MRV.

[aneel]

Setup:

2 H20 Receivers
1 D11 Receiver -> Plan to upgrade to HR-X

Zinwell WB68
Slimline 5LNB

As indicated, I want to upgrade the D11 to an HD-DVR receiver. SWM is the most straightforward way to do this, but I understand that D* will not necessarily install SWM for me to facilitate the upgrade. That's fine. Here is where I would like to ask for some clarification:


NOTE: By installing your own SWM equipment, you are putting yourself outside the DirecTV supported system, and may be refused repair/warranty service by DirecTV’s HSP (Home Service Provider) system. HSP techs work under very stringent rules and under penalty of severe chargebacks, so most won’t touch a system that doesn’t match their paperwork, and officially-installed SWM systems are documented in the customer’s account. So, before you do this, understand: you are on your own. Do not expect support from DirecTV for your modified system.

My system was installed by DirecTV, but I do not have the Protection Plan/Extended Warranty. If I install the SWMLNB or SWM8 myself, to what extent am I cut off (if any) from being able to get my setup serviced for whatever reason. As I understand it, a SWM8 is not considered to be routine residential equipment and as indicated in the paragraph above, could potentially scare installers off. Seeing as how SWMLNBs are becoming the norm, if I install one myself, will I be able to authenticate it with D* so that if my setup requires servicing, the SWM will not come as any surprise and installers will act appropriately? I realize that I may incur costs, but as it is, I am not under any extended warranty and have been a D* customer for two years. What do you all think?

Edit: Found this from the October 09 announcement:
Defective SWiM 8 switches should be replaced with a SWiM 8.
Does this mean that I can get servicing for a SWM8 setup?

[BattleZone]

The rule you quoted has changed somewhat. If you install a SWM yourself, just don't volunteer that information, and DirecTV will assume that they did it, and they'll handle it from there. The only issue is that if you have a bad SD receiver, it could be replaced with a non-SWM-compatible receiver since the "SWM Flag" isn't set on your account. All currently-shipping HD receivers are SWM compatible.

[aneel]

The rule you quoted has changed somewhat. If you install a SWM yourself, just don't volunteer that information, and DirecTV will assume that they did it, and they'll handle it from there. The only issue is that if you have a bad SD receiver, it could be replaced with a non-SWM-compatible receiver since the "SWM Flag" isn't set on your account. All currently-shipping HD receivers are SWM compatible.

Upon replacing the D11 with the HDDVR, there will no longer be any legacy receivers left in the setups, so I don't think replacement will be an issue. When you say that DirecTV will assume that they did it, are you referring to the SWMLNB or SWM8? Will they eventually flag my account? Also, if I go with the SWMLNB, will I have to realign/peak the signal? Thanks.

[gomezma1]

They emailed me back and told me that I did not qualify for a SWM installation after informing them, that would prevent a dish re-installation when I would upgrade. But what surprised me is that I asked for the price of the installation to do it and they gave me this response.

[BattleZone]

They emailed me back and told me that I did not qualify for a SWM installation after informing them, that would prevent a dish re-installation when I would upgrade. But what surprised me is that I asked for the price of the installation to do it and they gave me this response.

DirecTV *never* installs items you don't need *today* just because you *might* need them tomorrow.

We get asked all the time to "run an extra line into that room" or "install a multiswitch" or whatever, in case the customer wants to upgrade later. Those requests are categorically denied; DirecTV only installs the equipment to support the equipment currently on your account (including items being delivered on that work order).

[clcoyle]

How do I update the Firmware on an HR20-700 and what is the latest firmware version?

Thanks, Chris

[carl6]

How do I update the Firmware on an HR20-700 and what is the latest firmware version?

Thanks, Chris

Software is updated automatically when DirecTV rolls it out. You don't need to do anything at all.

You can force a software download, but it won't give you anything other than the current national release, which you should already have. To force a software download, go through the menu to setup, reset, and do a "restart receiver". It will shut down then turn back on. At the very first blue welcome screen, push the 0 2 4 6 8 buttons on your remote, then be patient. Don't push any other buttons, and only push them one time. After a short pause, the receiver should say it found new software, and will then download it. But even though it does that, it won't install it unless it is (a) newer than what you already have AND (b) your receiver is authorized for it.

The only time forcing a download is normally done is when a new receiver is installed, and that is to make sure it is current as it may have been sitting on a shelf through one or more updates. If your receiver has been in service for more than 24 hours, it will have the most current software.

[jparry]

I am a current D* customer and am in the process of building a new house. Part of my wiring plan includes the SAT system and distribution. Under the current rules I assume that this would come under the "movers connection" plan.

What type of install should I expect and plan for with my pre-wire? Legacy, SWM, hybrid?

[chedlin]

I moved into my house and it had the 3 LNB original HD dish. I tested with a my old room mate's (whom didn't move with me) equipment and had 2 D TiVo's working fine with all 4 cables.

I setup an installation as a new customer through Best Buy to get the the HD receive and $350 in Best Buy rebates. I got an HD DVR and a standard def receiver, with the intention of using the gift cards to get another reciever. They cut off 3 of the coax lines and installed SWM, but only configured the DVR for a single tuner. Later I figured out what was up and reconfigured it.

I was initially disappointed because I was planning on adding two DTiVo's to my account, but got over it because I want to go 100% HD.

I then bought a 2nd DVR from Best Buy (HR22 with a manufacture date in lat e November?) and went around and around with activations, because they neglected to flag my account. I wasn't seeing 5 birds because I have the SL3-S dish. At least I don't have to use the BBCs.

[desulliv]

Introduction to SWM

In late 2007, DirecTV officially introduced a new technology for delivering signals from their “Slimline” HD-capable dish antenna to their newer satellite receivers. This technology is called Single Wire Multiswitch, or SWM (pronounced “swim”). SWMs are a major departure from the “legacy” systems which used voltage switching and tone signaling to switch between banks of transponders, a system that required a separate, unsplit coax line between an LNB or multiswitch output and each satellite tuner.

Using SWM technology, it is possible to feed up to 8 tuners (per SWM device) from a single coax, using wideband cable splitters as needed to split the line to feed one cable per receiver. Each SWM module also requires an in-line power supply to power the LNB and internal SWM switchgear.

Compatible dual-tuner receivers can use 1 or 2 SWM channels to feed one or both tuners from a single coax connected to the “SAT 1” input. The obvious advantage to this system is that in most cases it allows the use of pre-existing “cable” wiring, where typically only one line is run to each TV location. SWM even allows the use of RG59 in most cases (damaged or lower-grade RG59 may not work), which is a boon for those in older homes and buildings.

There are two different types of SWM devices: the SWM LNB and the separate SWM8 module. The SWM LNB comes in two versions: the SL3-S and the SL5-S, which are the SWM versions of the “legacy” LNBs for the Slimline dish, the SL3 and the SL5. As a rule, the SWM LNBS are the only SWM equipment DirecTV installs or supports for residential installations. The standalone SWM8 external SWM module is intended for commercial and/or MDU (multi-dwelling unit, aka apartment) DirecTV installations, and is not supplied or supported by DirecTV for residential use. More on that later.

Qualifying for SWM

While SWM is a great new technology, the system has several important limitations. The SWM LNBs have just a single coax output, and thus cannot be expanded or integrated with other orbital locations, so if you need International programming or live in an area where the SD locals still come from the 72.5 satellite, you will not qualify for SWM equipment. Each SWM module has a total of 9 “SWM Channels”, 8 for providing signals to tuners and 1 “control channel”. Thus, a Slimline dish with a SWM LNB can feed a maximum of 8 tuners, and cannot be expanded. Finally, only newer models of DirecTV receivers support SWM technology. Those are:

• D12 and newer
• R16, R22 and newer
• H20* and newer
• HR20 and newer

Older models are not SWM compatible and cannot be made SWM compatible.

For these and other business reasons, DirecTV has created internal business rules that limit SWM equipment to the following:

• New customers only. (Upgrades and Mover’s Connections do not qualify!)
• At least 1 HD receiver.
• 5-8 tuners total.**
• No International programming.

**Mid Oct 2009, this will be changing; all *new* HD installs without Internationals with 8 or less tuners will get SWM LNBs.


The biggest objection to these rules tend to come from existing customers who want a SWM but don’t qualify. The primary reason for the “new customers only” rule is to ensure that all receivers on the account are SWM compatible. DirecTV doesn’t intend to replace working receivers for free just to make them SWM compatible, and many customers would object to paying to upgrade their receivers to an equivalent but SWM-compatible version (say: R15 to R16), so presumably they decided it would be easiest to simply limit SWM equipment to new customers only.

Important Note: No matter what an individual CSR promises you, CSRs cannot specify SWM equipment for you. They can put your request in the system notes, which may or may not get to the installer, but those notes cannot and do not override the hardware items listed on the work order, and that is what the installer must go by.

When a CSR places an order, all the CSR can do is order your receivers. They specify x number of HD-DVRs, y number of HD receivers, and so on. Based on the receivers ordered, DirecTV’s work order system generates the work order with any other needed hardware, such as dishes and/or switches. The system builds the work order based on the business rules DirecTV has created, and there’s nothing a CSR can do to override these selections. If the system says you don’t qualify for a SWM, you don’t get one.

Keep in mind that DirecTV has never advertised SWM technology or promised (at a corporate level) any customer that they were going to get SWM equipment. DirecTV’s position is that SWM equipment is for customers who qualify for it under the above rules.

How To Get A SWM System If You Don’t Qualify

There are two ways to get SWM equipment if you don’t qualify to get one as part of a standard installation.

DirecTV’s “Custom Work Price Sheet”, as updated on 2/28/2009, lists a SWM LNB upgrade option as custom work that a customer can request. HSP techs should all carry copies of this price sheet and customers should get a copy when any custom work is performed. The price for the SWM LNB upgrade is $136, and does not include receiver swaps, which would be an extra expense. This might seem pricey, but it is the only official, supported way to get a SWM if you don’t otherwise qualify for one.*

* As of 8/17/09, DirecTV has removed this option.

The other option is to buy and install your own SWM equipment.

NOTE: By installing your own SWM equipment, you are putting yourself outside the DirecTV supported system, and may be refused repair/warranty service by DirecTV’s HSP (Home Service Provider) system. HSP techs work under very stringent rules and under penalty of severe chargebacks, so most won’t touch a system that doesn’t match their paperwork, and officially-installed SWM systems are documented in the customer’s account. So, before you do this, understand: you are on your own. Do not expect support from DirecTV for your modified system.

The simplest solution is generally swapping out your existing legacy LNB with the SWM version. If your existing system has an external multiswitch (typically a Zinwell WB68), you can replace it with your SWM splitter and connect one line per receiver to the splitter. Always use a splitter with the minimum ports to connect the receivers you have (SWM splitters come in 1x2, 1x4, and 1x8 versions), and always use terminating resister caps to terminate any unused ports on your splitter. The SWM LNB has the limitations previously listed: 8 tuners max, no expansion, no support for legacy receivers, and no support for International or 72.5 markets.

The other alternative is to purchase a commercial SWM8 switch. The SWM8 is fed by running all 4 lines from a legacy Slimline LNB to the 4 main inputs on the SWM, but the SWM8 has several additional capabilities: it has 2 Flexports like a WB68, so it can support International and 72.5 markets. It also has 3 legacy ports, which will pass 101/110/119 signals to legacy receivers. (If you only need signal from 101, you can use 2 of those ports to feed a legacy switch if more legacy ports are needed). Finally, by splitting the lines from the LNB before they reach the SWM8, you can feed multiple SWM8s from a single dish, allowing multiple 8-channel SWM “legs” in your system.

Once again, the SWM8 is not intended for use in residential applications, which has several important potential consequences. If your SWM8 module fails, it will not be directly replaced by DirecTV, so it will be up to you to handle any warranty issues with the vendor you purchased it from. If you insist that DirecTV restores your system, they may replace your SWM8 system with a SWM LNB or with a legacy system, at DirecTV’s option, to get it working.

Further, most DirecTV installers have no involvement with any commercial equipment, including the SWM8, so most installers will have never seen one and will have no idea what it is or how it works, and may refuse to work on the system at all. That is the chance you take going outside the system, so please don’t blame the tech if this happens to you.

Hope this helps to clear things up.
I'm in Portland, OR, where MRV is being offered. Apparently, this offer requires a SWM set-up, which I have scheduled for installation next week. I have an international package (Chinese). Is it still true that SWM will not support international programming?

[veryoldschool]

I'm in Portland, OR, where MRV is being offered. Apparently, this offer requires a SWM set-up, which I have scheduled for installation next week. I have an international package (Chinese). Is it still true that SWM will not support international programming?
the SWM8 has the flex ports for the additional dish.

[desulliv]

the SWM8 has the flex ports for the additional dish.
Thanks. My current programming requires only one dish, so I guess I should be OK anyway.

[veryoldschool]

Thanks. My current programming requires only one dish, so I guess I should be OK anyway.
If you only need "one dish" and have HD service, then a SWMLNB slimline5 will work fine, since your programing is coming off the 119 SAT.
Those that need access to the 95 SAT would need the SWM8 and a second dish.

[gomezma1]

I bought a SWM SL5 dish and had an installer that lives in my neighborhood align it for me for $20. I have and R22 and R16. What do I have to do so D knows that I have a slime SWM dish installed? The original installation had an 18" dish.

[Luck255]

I bought a SWM SL5 dish and had an installer that lives in my neighborhood align it for me for $20. I have and R22 and R16. What do I have to do so D knows that I have a slime SWM dish installed? The original installation had an 18" dish.

I think your best bet is to do emails for this. From other users posts it doesn't seem like a rep over the phone can actually add the flag.

[gomezma1]

Thanks LUCK255.I plan on adding the splitter to it. When I make the connections do I need to unplug the receiver and then make the connections? What about the power inserter?

[dsw2112]

I bought a SWM SL5 dish and had an installer that lives in my neighborhood align it for me for $20. I have and R22 and R16. What do I have to do so D knows that I have a slime SWM dish installed? The original installation had an 18" dish.

I think your best bet is to do emails for this. From other users posts it doesn't seem like a rep over the phone can actually add the flag.

I've dealt with this issue personally and D* does not have an "easy" way of updating this flag for the DIY'er. The flag is designed to automatically update when SWM is installed on a D* workorder. From talking with someone "in the know" the process to update the flag for a DIY'er is a bit cumbersome... Whatever route you take (phone or e-mail) you will likely find confusion on this issue. Don't be surprised if you are notified that the "flag" has been set only to receive a non-swm receiver upon replacement...

[gomezma1]

I replaced two R-15's with an R22 and R-16. Will this make a difference if I have to have one of these replaced. After all I paid for it and should get back what I paid for.

[dsw2112]

I replaced two R-15's with an R22 and R-16. Will this make a difference if I have to have one of these replaced. After all I paid for it and should get back what I paid for.

D* considers all SD DVR's to be equal, so it's entirely possible to have an R15 replace an R16. The SWM flag exists to ensure a replacement/order is SWM compatible, but as I stated, it's not an easy process to set in a DIY situation...

The simple answer to your question is "no" it will not make a difference unless you can get the SWM flag set. And even then, the R22 could be replaced by an R16...

[gomezma1]

if they send me equipment i can't use then what is the solution?

[Shades228]

if they send me equipment i can't use then what is the solution?

Get the equipment yourself. The risk of doing a DIY is that you are going outside of their system and therefor outside of their support.

[gomezma1]

So if they don't want people to DIY then why are dishes available for purchase? It doesn't make sense. In a way they are not keeping their end of the contract. I paid for the receivers out of my pocket and should get back what I paid for. This seems to be a no win situation.

[Shades228]

So if they don't want people to DIY then why are dishes available for purchase? It doesn't make sense. In a way they are not keeping their end of the contract. I paid for the receivers out of my pocket and should get back what I paid for. This seems to be a no win situation.

You can't buy them from DirecTV. It's just like getting getting parts from a shop and installing them on a car it didn't come with. Just because the company used that part on something doesn't mean it was approved for your car. This is the same thing. They said "this is what you're setup will be" you went out and changed that setup. For people in your situation I would highly recommend that you get the MRV upgrade once it goes national. Then they will come out and install a SWM and your account will be flagged properly. If not then you will have to get all of your own equipment going forward.

[chedlin]

What is someone to do that didn't get the flag when DirecTV's installer did it?

[gomezma1]

I called in last week and the CSR flagged my account with SWM. How can I verify that they did it?

[Tim Petlock]

I didn't previously have an SWM setup. The system I moved had four total tuners - an HR-20 and an HR-21. I added a standard def DVR to bring the tuner count to 6.

I didn't ask what I was going to get until the order was placed and still wasn't "counting on it" until the installer showed up with the slimline SWM dish on his truck.

At any rate, it's possible to get SWM through the mover's program.

[dsw2112]

I called in last week and the CSR flagged my account with SWM. How can I verify that they did it?

The only way you'll really know is if you ever have to replace an SD box. I've researched this particular situation (including going through it myself) and it seems to be fairly difficult for D* to set the flag manually. From talking with someone "in the know" the system is designed to trigger the flag when SWM is on the workorder (and installed by D*.) There are other ways, but you'll be hard pressed to find someone with the capabilities...

P.S. I was told repeatedly that my flag was set, but when I received a replacement SD receiver it was not SWM capable.

[Shades228]

The rules change with MRV coming out. Ordering MRV requires a SWM. So essentially even on an upgrade you can get a SWM now as long as you're willing to pay for the MRV upgrade. The flag would also get set because the SWM would be on the work order. For people with their own SWM installed I'm betting they will be able to get that flag set if a tech goes out to do an upgrade as well after the MRV is national.

[dwcolvin]

The rules change with MRV coming out. Ordering MRV requires a SWM. So essentially even on an upgrade you can get a SWM now as long as you're willing to pay for the MRV upgrade. The flag would also get set because the SWM would be on the work order. For people with their own SWM installed I'm betting they will be able to get that flag set if a tech goes out to do an upgrade as well after the MRV is national.

Not quite. The MRV Upgrade requires SWM. Order that, and you're guaranteed to have SWM and all SWM-compatable receivers and other components. However MRV works perfectly well with a decent home Ethernet network and no SWM.

[Shades228]

Not quite. The MRV Upgrade requires SWM. Order that, and you're guaranteed to have SWM and all SWM-compatable receivers and other components. However MRV works perfectly well with a decent home Ethernet network and no SWM.

And if you had all of that you wouldn't call up to order it would you? You would call up and ask for mrv service to be activated.

[Shades228]

I think it's time for this thread to be locked and un stickied. Many of the facts now are incorrect and with the advent of MRV it also changes many of the issues.

[BattleZone]

I think it's time for this thread to be locked and un stickied. Many of the facts now are incorrect and with the advent of MRV it also changes many of the issues.

I agree.

[thudman99]

I ordered the MRV package for $99 + $45 installation, and after a few scheduling misteps by the local install group, mainly around difficulty getting trained installers and tghe required equipment, a week late they brought out a full SWM16, 2 expanders, full deca with broadband and installed everything in a couple of hours. A supervisor and trainer came out and spent a bit of extra time cleaning up the mess previous installers had left behind from a few upgrades. Everything works great.

[Stuart Sweet]

I think it's time for this thread to be locked and un stickied. Many of the facts now are incorrect and with the advent of MRV it also changes many of the issues.

Yeah, I agree too. Let's start a new thread if necessary.