To ground or not to ground - that is the question

[Bogey62]

When my satellite dealer, who has been installing C-band and DBS systems for the past 15-20 years, put my Dish PVR721 system in last summer, he told me to disconnect the grounding wire as soon as he left. He said that if lightning did strike (not sure if he meant a power surge coming through the electrical outlet or an actual strike to the antenna itself) it would go right through my receiver and zap it. Does this sound like reasonable advice or foolishness?

[boba]

Your other post says you are in an apartment where are you going to ground the system?

[Bogey62]

Your other post says you are in an apartment where are you going to ground the system?

Very good question. :)

I have no idea where I would ground it, even if I should ground it.

[Antaltmike]

Try a flower pot

[toad57]

Do you mean disconnect the ground wire from the outside dish?

Last summer I had a direct lightning hit on a rooftop TV antenna... my DBS dish was about 12 ft. away mounted on same roof, but lower. The resultant surge took out an inline video amp, the inputs on a VCR and a few other odds and ends, but my house proper was unharmed.

If you do not have your antenna or dish grounded, and it takes a direct lightning strike, then the lightning will find someplace else to go and may well start a fire

Bottom line: dish or antenna grounding is more of a fire safety item than a 'protect the electronics' item.

To protect the electronics you should have a cheapie grounding block in the coax line and then invest in some quality DBS protection (i.e. Panamax (http://tinyurl.com/f9xh) or some other brand).

And you should still do both (dish ground and surge supression) as one is not meant to take the place of the other.

[toad57]

OK, I just re-read your posts... if you are in an apartment (and your dish is not on the roof or a prominent point) then a direct lightning strike is not very likely and maybe you can get by without the ground. Not 'zactly legal, but I guess you could do it.

Oh... where does the ground wire run that the installer put in?

[Bogey62]

Do you mean disconnect the ground wire from the outside dish?

Last summer I had a direct lightning hit on a rooftop TV antenna... my DBS dish was about 12 ft. away mounted on same roof, but lower. The resultant surge took out an inline video amp, the inputs on a VCR and a few other odds and ends, but my house proper was unharmed.

If you do not have your antenna or dish grounded, and it takes a direct lightning strike, then the lightning will find someplace else to go and may well start a fire

Bottom line: dish or antenna grounding is more of a fire safety item than a 'protect the electronics' item.

To protect the electronics you should have a cheapie grounding block in the coax line and then invest in some quality DBS protection (i.e. Panamax (http://tinyurl.com/f9xh) or some other brand).

And you should still do both (dish ground and surge supression) as one is not meant to take the place of the other.

I use an APC surge protector for the dish/TV electronics, but it doesn't offer any protection as far as the actual RG-6 cable goes.

Not sure how/where I could even ground it here in the apartment complex.

[Bogey62]

OK, I just re-read your posts... if you are in an apartment (and your dish is not on the roof or a prominent point) then a direct lightning strike is not very likely and maybe you can get by without the ground. Not 'zactly legal, but I guess you could do it.

Oh... where does the ground wire run that the installer put in?

The dish will just be on a piece of pole attached to the iron railing of the patio (2nd floor).

The wire I was told to disconnect at the other place was attached to a rod which the installer drove into the ground -- that is the wire I disconnected after he left, per his instructions. He said he had to ground it to be legal, but he suggested I disconnect that wire after he departed.

[Jtater]

The dish will just be on a piece of pole attached to the iron railing of the patio (2nd floor).

The wire I was told to disconnect at the other place was attached to a rod which the installer drove into the ground -- that is the wire I disconnected after he left, per his instructions. He said he had to ground it to be legal, but he suggested I disconnect that wire after he departed.

The intention of the grounding isn't simply to protect equipment in case of a lightning strike. I'm an electrician and the methods used to ground DBS antennas will in no way protect you equipment in the event of a direct lightning strike. The main purpose of grounding your dish is to dissipate static electricity that will build up on all objects during electrical storms. By properly grounding your dish you lower your chances of being hit by a lightning strike. This is because a properly grounded antenna will maintain the same static charge as the ground. So simply put everything around your dish will be more likely to attract lightning, which in turn helps to protect you antenna from a lightning strike. If anyone tries to tell you a #10 copper wire will withstand a direct hit from lightning they are completely out of their mind. You should also try to use the same grounding point as your electrical service as this will help to prevent loops that will build up static in your dish. You can get by with using an 8' ground rod but it's better to bond it with your main service. If you have no other option use the ground stake, but chances are that option won't meet your local electrical codes.

[toad57]

For just static bleeding a small wire would do, but in the small chance that there is a direct or nearly-direct strike, lightning will tend to take the lowest resistance path when heading for ground, which will be the #10 wire. During this 'incident' the #10 wire may be transformed into a cloud of copper vapor, but it will have done its job of suggesting a preferred path for the lightning discharge.

Lightning rod systems are designed with much heavier cable ( see this site (http://tinyurl.com/fah3)) e.g. 7/16 inch diameter to be able to handle the currents and not have to be replaced (hopefully!) after a direct hit.

p.s. I just checked out the site http://www.lightningrodparts.com and they have some interesting stuff... surge protectors (http://tinyurl.com/fai3) for whole-house power, DBS/antenna (F-connectored) and phone lines. Did some more exploring on their site- they even have the gear for lightning protection of your trees (heck, I thought that was the tree's job!!)

The cheapest price I could find for the 'Surgender' inline coax supressor was $3.75 (qty. 1) at this site (http://www.newtechindustries.com/newtech/access/se1k.htm). I may order a few of those... I see by poking around in their catalog they have a variety of video/dbs/phone/cables/tools stuff such as single and dual grounding blocks in 3 flavors: vanilla, 1-GHz and 2-GHz.

[AllieVi]

For those who can do so, mounting the dish on a pole in the ground goes a long way toward avoiding lightning strike problems. This dish is much less likely to be hit in the first place when compared to one mounted high on the house and, if struck, an immediate path to ground exists. It's also nice to have the dish located on the ground where it can be more easily serviced/aligned without the need to climb a ladder.

[PSB]

AMEN! How low can you go? Its the BEST place for a dish! ! ! !

[waydwolf]

For just static bleeding a small wire would do, but in the small chance that there is a direct or nearly-direct strike, lightning will tend to take the lowest resistance path when heading for ground, which will be the #10 wire. During this 'incident' the #10 wire may be transformed into a cloud of copper vapor, but it will have done its job of suggesting a preferred path for the lightning discharge.
As was said above, it is NOT for channeling a lightning strike to ground! Lightning rod systems DO NOT exist for the purpose of attracting or guiding lightning to ground, but to instead DISCOURAGE a strike by bleeding off electrostatic potential too fast to accumulate to high enough levels to generate streamers which will then begin the lightning strike sequence. Those heavy braids of copper or aluminum would be vaporized just as well.

Ground is also for channeling a fault to ground instead of somewhere else that it might otherwise cause electrocution, fire, and/or property damage.

[waydwolf]

The intention of the grounding isn't simply to protect equipment in case of a lightning strike. I'm an electrician and the methods used to ground DBS antennas will in no way protect you equipment in the event of a direct lightning strike. The main purpose of grounding your dish is to dissipate static electricity that will build up on all objects during electrical storms. By properly grounding your dish you lower your chances of being hit by a lightning strike. This is because a properly grounded antenna will maintain the same static charge as the ground. So simply put everything around your dish will be more likely to attract lightning, which in turn helps to protect you antenna from a lightning strike. If anyone tries to tell you a #10 copper wire will withstand a direct hit from lightning they are completely out of their mind. You should also try to use the same grounding point as your electrical service as this will help to prevent loops that will build up static in your dish. You can get by with using an 8' ground rod but it's better to bond it with your main service. If you have no other option use the ground stake, but chances are that option won't meet your local electrical codes.

Excellent! Finally someone else who knows it says it.

A couple of additions:

DO NOT EVER allow satellite dish installer to install a ground rod. First, it is against the law in most jurisidictions for anyone BUT a LICENSED electrician to install a ground electrode. Second, those loops that Jtater mentioned are far worse than static in your dish. Ground is reference for the neutral line to which it is bonded at the service entrance. Throwing off neutral can and likely will screw up things like motors causing extreme possibility of electrocution and fire. My father was a firefighter who went to dozens of such house fires.

BTW, no cable tech is ever allowed to do anything but ground to the proper point, showing how much better their education is than the nonexistant eduction of satellite installers, but I digress...

You must ground because THE LAW says you must. First time an astute zoning and code inspector sees it, you could end up with a whopping fine and limited time order to repair it. That is of course, if you don't get hit by lightning by not grounding it, or you don't get electrocuted due to a fault not going to ground.

[waydwolf]

AMEN! How low can you go? Its the BEST place for a dish! ! ! !

ESPECIALLY after the MVDDS spectrum sharing plan gets rolling full steam. Any real old-time C-Band installer should remember TI(Terrestrial Interferrence) and the practice of siting a dish based not only on line of sight but naturally screening terrain.

[toad57]

As was said above, it is NOT for channeling a lightning strike to ground! Lightning rod systems DO NOT exist for the purpose of attracting or guiding lightning to ground, but to instead DISCOURAGE a strike by bleeding off electrostatic potential too fast to accumulate to high enough levels to generate streamers which will then begin the lightning strike sequence. Those heavy braids of copper or aluminum would be vaporized just as well.

OK, so it looks like I've been mis-informed over the years... but why will a #10 ground suffice on a DBS dish but on the barn roof we find rods connected to much heavier cable?

[Silversurfer01973]

What exactly should you be grounding on a typical installation? I currently have my cable grounded before it enters the house. Do I need or do laws require that I ground the actual dish? How about the multi-switch? I notice it has a place for a ground wire to be attached. I figured it was not needed because my cable is grounded before it gets to the switch and only about 6 inches before the switch. I want to ensure I have a properly installed system. Any help is greatly appreciated.......

[apc1]

N.E.C. code requires that both the dish AND the coax be grounded.

[Jtater]

What exactly should you be grounding on a typical installation? I currently have my cable grounded before it enters the house. Do I need or do laws require that I ground the actual dish? How about the multi-switch? I notice it has a place for a ground wire to be attached. I figured it was not needed because my cable is grounded before it gets to the switch and only about 6 inches before the switch. I want to ensure I have a properly installed system. Any help is greatly appreciated.......


Technically speaking if the multiswitch is the last available grounding point it should be grounded as NEC requires that the coax be grounded as close to the entry point of the dwelling as possible. And as was stated before NEC also requires the grounding of the antenna as well. In addition to NEC you may want to check on your local electrical codes as well. Most jurisdictions use NEC as a guide, but add stricter codes on top of NEC. One question to you. How far is your multiswitch located from the entry point into your home? If it's not right next to the entry the proper installation would be to add grounding blocks with drip loops. If you have any more questions just ask it looks as though several user are well informed and more than willing to help.

[Nick]

Grounding at the block should also ground the dish through the cable shield.

[Jtater]

Grounding at the block should also ground the dish through the cable shield.

It's a nice thought, however the coax shielding makes no direct bonding contact with the dish itself.