PVR 508 w/ Hitachi 43 Inch HDTV

[lordhamster]

Hello folks, I'm not sure if this is the correct place to ask this, but since the Dish equipment I'm using is a PVR 508 I guess I'll give it a shot here:


I have had my Dish PVR 508 for several months now and have been very happy with it. Two weeks ago, my old 27inch TV died, so I bought a replacement. The replacement is a 43 inch Hitachi rear projection HDTV monitor.

I've connected the PVR to the TV via the Svideo output

The TV shows dvd with incredible detail/quality... however on the Dish side, I notice significant pixelization or "chunkyness" in the image. Much like when you take internet streaming video, and stretch the window to full size mode on your computer.

I understand that the Dish Network broadcast is compressed, and that there will be some loss of image quality on larger screens, however, I really was surprised at the extent of the chunkyness.

I have not seen this phenomenon mentioned on these boards, so I'm wondering... could the problem be some setting that I have configured incorrectly on the PVR? Could the TV settings me causing the problem? Or is it completely normal on big screen TVs for Dish Network channels to be pixelated?

Could it be that the PVR 508 has adjustable compression settings due to the limitations of recording space on the drive?

[Mark Lamutt]

What you're seeing is normal, unfortunately. I'd recommend picking up a copy of Avia or Video Essentials on DVD to calibrate the color/tint/contract/brightness/sharpness settings on your television. That'll help a little bit with the picture, but the bottom line is that the Dish (and directv for that matter) picture looks far better on a 27" television than on a 43" or 50" or larger television.

[abospaum]

The Dish signal is no HD or even ED so what your problem is that you have a lack of information based upon the size of your screen. Doesn't you TV have a line-doubler and allow you to change from progressive to interlaced, etc.

I have a 57" Sony RPTV and I agree that the picture quality isn't great but this is simply due to the number of lines of resolution. When we ever see the new HD receivers and channels I think things will look much better.

[boba]

Sometimes downgrading your signal improves the appearance, try sending the signal to the TV on cable either ch3 or 4 with the line doubler it sometimes looks better.

[DarrellP]

You should see it on a 81" diagonal DLP projector screen, BLEEEECH!!! Luckily, I can switch the PJ into "Native" mode and it displays at the Dish resolution of 480x480 or whatever it is. It's still very soft and out of focus looking and the colors are not true, but it is more watchable than full 4:3 mode.

On the other hand, the Dish HDEVents and Demo channel look fabulous in HD.

[davhol]

This is a problem with all "digital" TV signals, whether from cable or satellite. The service provider digitizes ("samples" the picture into pixels) the signal and what you're seeing is a magnification of that digitization process. If you take a magnifying glass and look at a photo in your news paper, you'll see all sorts of dots of varying shades. This is similar. On a smaller screen, your eye doesn't notice the "softness" of the picture, but when you maginify it on a big-screen TV, you see just how cruddy the signal really is! On HD or DVD material, where you've got more "signal", you don't get this blotchyness. Sometimes, bigger isn't better! Sorry you had to find this out AFTER you got your set. The only "cure" for it is to have all HD content (or use an analog - off the air - signal). Maybe a "line doubler" circuit in your TV will reduce (but not totally eliminate) some of the problem. Good luck!

[DarrellP]

Off the air analog looks better on an HD set than Dish does. On the plus side, here's (http://www.guidetohometheater.com/showarchives.cgi?127) a link to a review of the new Phillips 34" direct view that claims their Pixel Plus technology almost makes Dish look HD. Check it out.

One Call has this right now for $1999.98.

[lordhamster]

thanks for all the replies... I don't think my TV has a line doubler built in.

I expected that the image would look worse up close than my old 27 inch tv did... I work with digital images every day in my line of work. However, I expected the image to look a little better... or to have heard many many more people on the forums discussing the issue.

I'm going to have to test the HBO channels and such to see if they are any better.

My folks have virtually the same set (except an even bigger versison). They have adelphia digital cable and don't seem to have this same effect. Of course adelphia may be dedicating more bandwidth to those particular channels... who knows.

So I guess short of getting HD... the best solution is to move my couch back 5 feet? :)



The good news is, I love the new set... and w/ DVDs the image is spectacular. I'd hoped for better on the dish... but I guess if nothing can be done I'll live. :)

Just a quick Poll: How many of you folks reading this post use big screens?

Also, I'm new to this forum... and have not seen many mentions of this issue... has there been lots of discussion about this? With more and more folks buying bigger Tvs and Plasma screens... what does dish plan to do? ... other let folks upgrade to HD?

[ibglowin]

Big screen Tv's are like big SUV's. They demand a "high octane" signal to perform at optimum. I was so disappointed with the SD signal from Dish I went right out and got the 6000. Have not regretted it for a moment. Even OTA digital is twice as good as Dish's compressed local's signal.

If you like DVD or your new TV your gonna love HD on it!

[dfergie]

Also have 43" hitatchi, got in jan. Have a 501, and had direct tv, both were same on pq. Have a 6000 I got in late jan. it was worth it for the hd, and if you do not stretch the picture the pq is better. My local analogs are also better than there dish counterparts, however my local digital was not, it is off the air right now.

[abospaum]

I got my big screen a few months ago but I refuse to buy the 6000 receiver since it was discontinued. I'd rather wait for the 921 which will be here sometime in the next 20 years or so. ;)

[lordhamster]

Same here. I'm going to wait till 921 comes out before I upgrade. While the picture quality is a good reason to upgrade, now that I've had the PVR, I don't think I could survive without it. :)

[ibglowin]

I was going to do that last Summer as well. Thats' when I found this forum and started reading about all the delays on the 921. I am glad I didn't wait because it's been almost a year now. We've gotten our use out of it this past year for sure. The smartest investment CBS did was start putting on it's primtime lineup in HD. That was enough to break our NBC habit once and for all. When the 921 comes out I will keep one of the 6000's and sell the other on eBay.

[lordhamster]

So with the 6000 you can pick up the HD content being broadcasted by CBS?

I know when I watch NYPD Blue on ABC.. it says "broadcast in HD" but I guess this means for over the air. Does Dish Network re-broadcast it in HD also? Or does it only work for the few channels that are true HD channels like the Showtime / Discovery etc?

[dfergie]

You can get CBS hd only if you can get a waiver. You can get on the dishnetwork home page, find add programming, select locals, and can find out if you are eligible. ABC and NBC do not have feeds in hd thru dishnet. Most of the CBS primetime shows are in HD with exceptions, most of the award and reality shows are not.

[ibglowin]

Go to Titantv.com

Enter your address and you can see what OTA digital stations are up and running in your area, the channel numbers, the target dates for those not up still, lots of good info as well as a channel guide for both local and satellite TV and even an "HD" icon for those that are being broadcast.

I get all my locals via OTA digital. Still have Dish locals as well tho, as the digital stations have a problem of going off the air at very inconvenient times occasionally. Like in the middle of an episode of 24!

[greylar]

lordhamster,
You should have seen our local cable on my 56 HDTV. Little or No compression but the signal was so full of static that it was almost unwatchable. (Looks great on my 27").

I suggest that you turn down the sharpness as far as you can stand. You really are trading one evil for another but I kind of found a point that seems to work ok.

And yes you will find that certian channels / times of day will be better than others. Also keep in mind that channels that require more hops to your dish are going to be the worst for pixelation. So locals will generally have more pixelation thansay ESPN.

GL with the TV,
Greylar

[abospaum]

I was going to do that last Summer as well. Thats' when I found this forum and started reading about all the delays on the 921. I am glad I didn't wait because it's been almost a year now. We've gotten our use out of it this past year for sure. The smartest investment CBS did was start putting on it's primtime lineup in HD. That was enough to break our NBC habit once and for all. When the 921 comes out I will keep one of the 6000's and sell the other on eBay.

What do you think you'd get for a 6000 once the 921 & 811 are out. The 811 is speculated to go for around $400 and it will be a supported unit with more features. Do you think that you'd get even $100. For a year's worth of use that isn't enough.

Also probably very few people qualify for Distant Nets so the best answer is to use an antenna with a receiver with an OTA HD decoder.

[ibglowin]

What do you think you'd get for a 6000 once the 921 & 811 are out. The 811 is speculated to go for around $400 and it will be a supported unit with more features. Do you think that you'd get even $100. For a year's worth of use that isn't enough.

Also probably very few people qualify for Distant Nets so the best answer is to use an antenna with a receiver with an OTA HD decoder.


The $64,000 question: When is the 921 and 811 coming out and what are they gonna cost??

I would be surprised if the 811 goes for $400 but you never know. I paid like $489 + $150 for the 8VSB OTA module + got the 8PSK for "free"with the years subscription to DiscoveryHD (aka:DiscoveryRepeat). I would think I could get close to $300 after the 921/811 comes out still. You would be surprised what people pay for things on eBay. If I can't get a decent price, I know my father in law would love to have one of them plus I would get lots of bonus brownie points to boot from my wife! :hurah:

This technology is just like all the rest including computers etc. You buy something and next year you'll find one not only faster but 20% cheaper as well. You can play the waiting game forever. Not only is my 6000 NOT the last HD receiver I will ever buy, my 60" Sony RPLCDTV is also NOT the last TV I will ever buy. I like many others here are obsessed (more or less) with technology. Trying to stay up with it is impossible I know, but it sure is fun to try!

[Mike123abc]

You can wait forever if you are not careful. My 6000s with OTA HDTV have been in use for over 2 years now. Well worth getting. I get my locals with a giant rooftop antenna complex. Yeah OTA is hard to get but the nice thing is once you get all the antennas/splitters/combiners/amplifiers in place it is pretty reliable. But, it takes a fair amount of time and effort to get all the stations right. I personally love the OTA digital. Once you get the antennas all aligned to get a good signal (have one station that is 2kwatts 30 miles away), you get a perfect picture. I get unexplained interference every now and then on some of the analogs, but most TV I watch is perfect digital.

[DarrellP]

You're lucky, Mike, to have good digital stations. In Portland it's ironic, they were nominated one of 3 key digital cities last year and this year almost every station is having some kind of major problem. Here's the rundown:

ABC: Video/Audio breakups constantly.

CBS: Audio popping, run 2 sub channels that kills the HD channel. SD channel is pretty good. People with the JVC30K can't record even though the station claims the copy protect is not on.

NBC: Very stable but they run a sub-channel that kills the HD channel. SD channel is very poor.

FOX: 4:3 SD channel that looks great and is very stable. 480P widescreen sub-channel is shared with UPN (their encoder is down). The 480P is a feed through from the L.A. FOX so we only get FOX programming when it is actually in 480P, otherwise we get UPN in a 16:9 window STRETCHED to fill the width of the frame (UUUUUUUUGGGGGLLLLLLYYYY!)

UPN: Off the air except as noted under FOX.

WB: Still building there studio.

PBS: It's great when it's working. Due to major funding cutbacks from the State of Oregon, our OPB is barely breathing. They were the first PBS station on the air and will probably be the first to go dark, they are bleeding cash fast.

All of the above Analog channels look great fed through the 6000.

It's hard to envision myself still as an early adopter. I've had my 6000 for 2 1/2 years and have really enjoyed HD, but it's very frustrating to try and watch a program with it constantly breaking up and the sound dropping out. It's not my equipment, there is a lively discussion on AVSForum under our own Portland Locals thread and it doesn't matter what type of STB or antenna, the stations just don't have their stuff together.

[Mike123abc]

I am not too lucky all my stations are standard definition. The CBS station is upconverted to 1080i. The CBS station says they will get real 1080i feed eventually. The NBC and Fox are standard definition. But, you cannot beat the digital standard def with either cable or satellite.

[dfergie]

Btw , is your hitachi widescreen or standard?

[lordhamster]

Its the widescreen
http://www.hitachi.com/tv/browse/projection/16-9digital/43fwx20b.shtml

Model 43fwx20b

[dfergie]

Ive got the same model. Got it in january, pleased with it.