Acoustic Research XSight: Discussion Thread

[Stuart Sweet]

This thread has been moved from the "Shadow Report" thread, for discussion of the Acoustic Research XSight remotes.

[mdavej]

I haven't pulled the trigger on one yet, but I did play with one at hh gregg and picked up a brochure. I had concerns about the buttons, but they are fine. They have good spacing and tactile feedback, with a nice easy click. I think it will be quite easy to use by touch (no pun intended).

[dave29]

I haven't pulled the trigger on one yet, but I did play with one at hh gregg and picked up a brochure. I had concerns about the buttons, but they are fine. They have good spacing and tactile feedback, with a nice easy click. I think it will be quite easy to use by touch (no pun intended).

The only thing that I don't really like(judging by the pics), are the actual DVR controls. Not the best layout IMHO.

[TheRatPatrol]

I haven't pulled the trigger on one yet, but I did play with one at hh gregg and picked up a brochure. I had concerns about the buttons, but they are fine. They have good spacing and tactile feedback, with a nice easy click. I think it will be quite easy to use by touch (no pun intended).
How do the color buttons and the guide/menu/info/exit buttons feel? They look almost indented? Thanks

[Shades228]

With no Chicago Bears face place I would still use my DirecTV remote over this one. However it's always good to have more products available.

[Drew2k]

Cool beans! :D

I love when disappointment is replaced by jubilation! :p

So one question ... does this remote have a future? Per the user manual only basic setup is possible via the remote, and advanced setup requires "the EZ-RC™ Remote Control Setup Wizard website". Will that site be around for a while?

I'm also looking for information on macros - the user guide only mentions macro in regards to a full reset, but I want to know how many steps can be in a macro. Anyone find the answer yet?

Here's the specific info on DIRECTV RF in case someone doesn't want to open the guide:
DIRECTV® RF

The Xsight™ Touch remote can control DIRECTV® satellite receivers with RF capability even when the satellite receiver is hidden in a closed cabinet or in a different room. The Xsight™ Touch can control DIRECTV® receivers with RF capability without using the ARRE433B RF extender.

IMPORTANT: Before you can use the DIRECTV® RF feature, you must set up the Xsight™ Touch to operate your DIRECTV® receiver just as you have with your other devices (like your TV, your DVD player, etc.). If the DIRECTV® receiver is already in RF mode, switch the receiver back to IR mode to confirm that the Xsight™ Touch can operate it.

In order to use the RF feature, you must enable the remote to transmit RF commands to the receiver and then pair the receiver and the remote.


Select DIRECTV RF from the Settings menu. The remote screen displays the current DIRECTV® RF Transmission status.
Press ON to enable DIRECTV® RF transmission.
Enable your DIRECTV® receiver for RF control (see your DIRECTV owners manual or on-screen setup for instructions). Then press Next on the remote’s screen.
Find the 6-digit code assigned to your DIRECTV® receiver (see your DIRECTV® owners manual or on-screen setup for instructions). Then press OK on the remote’s screen.
Use the number keys on the remote to enter your DIRECTV® receiver’s code. Use the remote’s on-screen Clear key if you need to erase numbers. Press the remote’s on-screen OK key when you’re done.
Test the remote’s (power) key and + and – (channel) keys with the DIRECTV® receiver. If these keys work, press the remote’s on-screen Yes key. Then press the remote’s on-screen Finish key.

[mdavej]

How do the color buttons and the guide/menu/info/exit buttons feel? They look almost indented? ThanksThe indention is just an optical illusion. All those are very slightly raised, same as all the number buttons. The travel on these puppies is very small. A very light touch presses a button flush and produces a soft click.

[gully_foyle]

Well, I bought an ARRX15G (no RF, no touchscreen, list $189) for about $80 NIB on eBay. Since I have no use for RF and can live without the touchscreen, we'll see how this works in the other regards. I'm used to hacking the One-for-All remotes (which this is a descendant of), so I'm curious whether they have gone full-Harmony activity-driven or whether it is macro-based. I still have the trusty RS15-1994 to fall back on....

[Drew2k]

Well, I bought an ARRX15G (no RF, no touchscreen, list $189) for about $80 NIB on eBay. Since I have no use for RF and can live without the touchscreen, we'll see how this works in the other regards. I'm used to hacking the One-for-All remotes (which this is a descendant of), so I'm curious whether they have gone full-Harmony activity-driven or whether it is macro-based. I still have the trusty RS15-1994 to fall back on....According to the user manual linked above it's activity based (via web site setup) but macros also exist. Please let us know how many steps are permitted in macros (not activities) when you get it!

Q: NIB?

[gully_foyle]

Q: NIB?New In Box

[Drew2k]

New In BoxD'oh!

Thanks. :sure:

[TheRatPatrol]

The indention is just an optical illusion. All those are very slightly raised, same as all the number buttons. The travel on these puppies is very small. A very light touch presses a button flush and produces a soft click.
Ok thanks for the info. Now if I could only see and hold it before I buy one. ;)

EDIT: has anyone seen a picture of the ARRE433B RF extender?

[spartanstew]

Well, I bought an ARRX15G (no RF, no touchscreen, list $189) for about $80 NIB on eBay.

Man, how'd that guy get one almost 3 weeks ago.

[SockMonkey]

EDIT: has anyone seen a picture of the ARRE433B RF extender?
There's a quick shot of it in the "Advanced Features" video on the product page.

http://www.araccessories.com/araccessories/jsps/includes/araccessories_marketing_video.jsp?file=XSIGHT_adva nced_440.swf

It looks sorta oval in shape with a short, thick antenna sticking out of it. See the middle of the attached screen capture image.

Bob

[mdavej]

Looks like the hh gregg chain (kind of like best buy) only has stores in the south and parts of the mid-west. They seem to be trying to fill circuit city's shoes lately, moving into a lot of their old stores. They only carry a few remotes, with the two AR's on their own special display. They don't carry harmony at all.

[armophob]

So raise your hand if you are watching the only one on Ebay?:lol:

Oh no, did I spoil it:D

[mogulman]

I don't know if the model with the Directv functionality was in these, but I saw two new AR remotes at my local Bestbuy today. One was like $250. I think the other was around $150.

[Milkman]

I am not sure I want one of these... Did you see how big this remote is??? I am not even sure I could reach the top buttons!!! :)

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17109&d=1231641078

[RegGeek]

It looks like Fry's Electronics has (or soon will have) these remotes. Opened my paper this morning and saw their big ad insert. Huge picture of the new remotes is on the top left side of the ad. Doesn't say a price and I couldn't find it on their website, but it definitely appears there will be another place to buy them pretty soon.

[Drew2k]

Looks like the hh gregg chain (kind of like best buy) only has stores in the south and parts of the mid-west. They seem to be trying to fill circuit city's shoes lately, moving into a lot of their old stores. They only carry a few remotes, with the two AR's on their own special display. They don't carry harmony at all.Here you go ... the full location map!

http://www.hhgregg.com/storeLocator.asp?SID=n

(There are a lot more stores than I imagined.)

[Mike Bertelson]

Man, how'd that guy get one almost 3 weeks ago.It was probably the EU version. They've out for a few months now.

Mike

[Drew2k]

On the EZ-RC Remove Control Setup Wizard page there is a link to a tour of the software. It seems very similar to Harmony setup, with the exception that Favorites and Profiles are independent of Activities (maybe a good thing, maybe a bad thing) but I still couldn't find any references in the tour to macros.

Link: http://www.ez-rc.com/Pages/LogOn/UserLogOn.aspx

Then click "Click here to take a tour".

Note: I could not get the tour to work in Firefox 3.5.2 - I had to run it in Internet Explorer. I hope that's not true of the actual web setup wizard as well. :rolleyes:

[Drew2k]

Independent Favorites and Profiles: Above I said this was maybe a good thing and maybe a bad thing.

From what I've seen, I create a set of favorites and can then create profiles
to use those favorites.

I say "good" because if you're someone who has multiple DIRECTV DVRs in one room, you only have to set up your favorites once and then they're ready for use in each activity (one DVR per activity).

However, it could also be "bad" if I can't create multiple "unique" sets of favorites. Not only do I have DIRECTV DVRs in my living room, I also have a Cablevision DVR. Channels are on different locations between the two services, so I would need to have at least two sets of favorites, and then I need to have double the profiles: One profile uses DIRECTV channel lineup, the other uses Cablevision lineup. If I can't create the unique favorite list, though, ... "bad" thing.

Yes, the cart is before the horse! I won't know it's good or bad until I try, right? Unless someone else comes back with information about it first, that is! :)

[RACJ2]

Ok thanks for the info. Now if I could only see and hold it before I buy one. ;)

EDIT: has anyone seen a picture of the ARRE433B RF extender?Here is the link to the extender info & picture that I had posted earlier in this thread Link: ARRE433B RF extender (http://66.77.167.108/araccessories/ARAccessoriesProductDetail.do?ACTION_TYPE_ID=ACTIO N_TYPE_PRODUCT_DETAIL&ACTION_CATEGORY_IDSTR_SEARCH_RESULT&search=extender&ACTION_PRODUCT_ID=ARRE433B)

[spartanstew]

I am not sure I want one of these... Did you see how big this remote is??? I am not even sure I could reach the top buttons!!! :)


For the original version of this joke, please see post #117

[spartanstew]

It was probably the EU version. They've out for a few months now.

Mike

Not according to his Ebay ads.

[dirtyblueshirt]

In today's San Diego Union-Tribune:

http://www.westofmichigan.com/images/frys.jpg

[gully_foyle]

On the EZ-RC Remove Control Setup Wizard page there is a link to a tour of the software. It seems very similar to Harmony setup, with the exception that Favorites and Profiles are independent of Activities (maybe a good thing, maybe a bad thing) but I still couldn't find any references in the tour to macros.

Link: http://www.ez-rc.com/Pages/LogOn/UserLogOn.aspx

Then click "Click here to take a tour".

Note: I could not get the tour to work in Firefox 3.5.2 - I had to run it in Internet Explorer. I hope that's not true of the actual web setup wizard as well. :rolleyes:
Same with the registration page -- ASP.NET

[gully_foyle]

Not according to his Ebay ads.

BTW, the seller seems to ship quick, as I already have a USPS tracking #

[gully_foyle]

In today's San Diego Union-Tribune:
LA Times, too. No price, but with the ad repeated 3 times in four pages, they really ought to have them in stock.

[Colby]

It's in the Frys Ad in Seattle too (http://local.ads.nwsource.com/ads/sites/frys_ad/).

[spartanstew]

And Dallas

[bonscott87]

SWEEET! Very interested in the 15G (non touch, non RF as I don't need or want either) and it's around $179 which I believe is very reasonably priced.

I see a possible Christmas present in my future...

[Stuart Sweet]

First person to get it running: if you publish a review in a separate thread, I'll make a big fuss on the front page, I promise.

[Milkman]

For the original version of this joke, please see post #117

rats :) I didn't read the whole thread obviously :)

[TheRatPatrol]

Here is the link to the extender info & picture that I had posted earlier in this thread Link: ARRE433B RF extender (http://66.77.167.108/araccessories/ARAccessoriesProductDetail.do?ACTION_TYPE_ID=ACTIO N_TYPE_PRODUCT_DETAIL&ACTION_CATEGORY_IDSTR_SEARCH_RESULT&search=extender&ACTION_PRODUCT_ID=ARRE433B)
When I click on that link it says "no data found".

Try this link (http://66.77.167.108/araccessories/ARAccessoriesProductDetail.do?ACTION_TYPE_ID=ACTIO N_TYPE_PRODUCT_DETAIL&ACTION_CATEGORY_IDSTR_CATEGORY_UNIVERSAL_SMART_REM OTE&ACTION_PRODUCT_ID=ARRE433B)

Looks nice though, it has 6 IR extenders included.

[dettxw]

I ordered the ARRX18G yesterday through Amazon, but the delivery estimate is 2-8 September.
Guess I would have been better off to have driven down to Dallas and visited Fry's.
(Not that I really could have squeezed it in, moving #1 son Saturday and need to go to Tulsa on Sunday)
I imagine that someone will pick one up at a B&M before I get mine.

[Stuart Sweet]

Anaheim Fry's says it's in stock. I wish I had the money this week.

[dettxw]

Anaheim Fry's says it's in stock. I wish I had the money this week.That's what you get for spending all your money on a new car! :lol:

[TheRatPatrol]

Anaheim Fry's says it's in stock. I wish I had the money this week.

That's what you get for spending all your money on a new car! :lol:
Thats what credit cards are for. ;)

[Mike Bertelson]

Anaheim Fry's says it's in stock. I wish I had the money this week.I’ve been saving my quarters, dimes, and nickels...literally saving my change...and I now have enough. I’m bleepin’ getting’ one. :D

Mike

[mogulman]

First person to get it running: if you publish a review in a separate thread, I'll make a big fuss on the front page, I promise.

Maybe I should go back to Bestbuy and buy one for review... just for the notoriety. :)

[mdavej]

As bad as I want one, and try as I might, I just can't bring myself to spend more on my remote than I did on the DVR it would control, no matter how cool it is. Sadly, my $29 refurb harmony 360 is doing all I need :crying_sa . I am looking forward to some reviews though.

[RunnerFL]

Maybe I should go back to Bestbuy and buy one for review... just for the notoriety. :)

Does Best Buy have them? I can't find them on their site.

If so I'd buy one on the way home...

[armophob]

Has anyone found a list of supported device manufacturers? Before I make the leap, it needs to be able to run Escient and Sunfire.

[TheRatPatrol]

Has anyone found a list of supported device manufacturers? Before I make the leap, it needs to be able to run Escient and Sunfire.
It can also learn any commands from your original remotes too.

[armophob]

It can also learn any commands from your original remotes too.

Yea, but damn. That could be 100-200 keys for the Sunfire alone. :)

[mdavej]

I have no idea what a sunfire is, but I wouldn't try using any universal remote to control anything with 200 buttons. I think the xsight and similar harmony's have something like 6 commands per page, so that's over 30 pages of buttons. It would take forever to do anything. Not worth the effort.

[Mike Bertelson]

Yea, but damn. That could be 100-200 keys for the Sunfire alone. :)Doesn't a Sunfire come with an MX-500?

Mike

EDIT: http://www.audaud.com/article.php?ArticleID=6242

[armophob]

Doesn't a Sunfire come with an MX-500?

Mike

EDIT: http://www.audaud.com/article.php?ArticleID=6242

My Sunfire TG-5 came with a RC-500. It is a learning remote, but I use the RF on my DVR's

[Stuart Sweet]

I'm surprised none of you has one already!

[TheRatPatrol]

I'm surprised none of you has one already!
We were all waiting for your review. :grin:

[Stuart Sweet]

I appreciate the vote of confidence, but as my press contact is ignoring me, it might be a little late in coming ;)

[RunnerFL]

I'm surprised none of you has one already!

If there were somewhere local to me that I could pick one up I would but no one has confirmed that they can be found at Best Buy and Best Buy does not list them on their website.

[Mike Bertelson]

My Sunfire TG-5 came with a RC-500. It is a learning remote, but I use the RF on my DVR'sI thought the RC-500 was a relabled MX-500.

I believe the TGP-401 uses a relabled MX-700

Although, I could be wrong. :grin:

Mike

[bonscott87]

As bad as I want one, and try as I might, I just can't bring myself to spend more on my remote than I did on the DVR it would control, no matter how cool it is. Sadly, my $29 refurb harmony 360 is doing all I need :crying_sa . I am looking forward to some reviews though.

If you don't have multiple equipment to control then a universal remote may not be for you.

My wife thought the same as you and though I was nuts spending $250 on our first MX-500 10 years ago but she agrees to this day it was the best money we ever spent (have since replaced with an MX-700 which is now getting old with massive use).

Replacing 8 remotes with 1 remote that controls everything.....priceless!

[mdavej]

If you don't have multiple equipment to control then a universal remote may not be for you.

My wife thought the same as you and though I was nuts spending $250 on our first MX-500 10 years ago but she agrees to this day it was the best money we ever spent (have since replaced with an MX-700 which is now getting old with massive use).

Replacing 8 remotes with 1 remote that controls everything.....priceless!
It's not that I don't need a universal. Quite the contrary. I couldn't live without it. I've got 10 devices, 12 activities and several sequences on my harmony (even more on my JP1 remotes in other rooms), which replaced 2 drawers full of remotes. My point is the cheap universal I have does everything I need, including RF. Although I'd really like a shiny new toy, beyond that, I just can't think of a compelling reason to spend more money.

My sig is a little misleading as it only has stuff directly related to watching tv. It doesn't include my home automation, cameras, switches, htpc/media server, game consoles, etc. I'd go nuts without a good universal remote.

[mdavej]

DirecTV RF confirmed (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17082892#post17082892) on another forum.

[armophob]

I thought the RC-500 was a relabled MX-500.

I believe the TGP-401 uses a relabled MX-700

Although, I could be wrong. :grin:

Mike

I just looked up mx-500 on remotecentral.com. You are correct that is what I have. I am pretty blown away that this thing has a 13 page rave review and after initial system setup, I basically just use it to change input sources and volume control. Too bad it does not have rf capability.

[TheRatPatrol]

DirecTV RF confirmed (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17082892#post17082892) on another forum.
Yes sir, also confirmed on page 22 of the owners manual. (http://audiovox2.info/docs/ar_acc/man/ARRX18G_DOC_OM.PDF)

DIRECTV® RF
The Xsight™ Touch remote can control DIRECTV® satellite receivers with RF capability even when the satellite receiver is hidden in a closed cabinet or in a different room. The Xsight™ Touch can control DIRECTV® receivers with RF capability without using the ARRE433B RF extender.

[RunnerFL]

Now if I could just find one locally.... :(

[RACJ2]

Now if I could just find one locally.... :(
If you have a Frys in your area, they might have them. I looked at them at my local Fry's, the color was $179 and the touch was $249. They didn't stock the RF extender though.

[inkahauts]

SO does this remote do Macros? Hoe about timed operations? Can I set it to run a macro at a given time? How many steps per macro?

This remote has potential, but I need more info before i can determine if its even worth really considering.

[RunnerFL]

If you have a Frys in your area, they might have them. I looked at them at my local Fry's, the color was $179 and the touch was $249. They didn't stock the RF extender though.

Closest Fry's to me is in Atlanta, I'm in South Florida. :D

Curious... Why would one need the RF extender if the remotes handle DirecTV RF natively?

[TheRatPatrol]

Closest Fry's to me is in Atlanta, I'm in South Florida. :D

Curious... Why would one need the RF extender if the remotes handle DirecTV RF natively?
For your other IR devices, if they should be in a closet or cabinet.

I held one today at Frys and I really liked it. The color and guide/menu/info/exit buttons are easy to press, which was one thing I was worried about. The overall layout is good, although I didn't actually see it in action because the display model wasn't working, no battery in it. The list button location isn't in as bad of a location as I first thought after looking at the pictures.

The overall feel of the remote is good, and I think its about the same size (maybe shorter?) then the Harmony One, its quite comparable.

I think if you have an HR and use RF you'll be happy with this remote. But then again, I wasn't actually able to use it, so I could be wrong.

One thing, Frys didn't have the RF extender. But if I was AR I would have included the RF extender in the $249.00 price tag. If you need RF you can get the touch, if you don't need RF then you can get the color.

Sorry I can't give more info about the overall workings of the remote.

[armophob]

With all the IR extender talk, can I assume this means this remote does not work with ir and rf simultaneously like the Directv remote?

[TheRatPatrol]

With all the IR extender talk, can I assume this means this remote does not work with ir and rf simultaneously like the Directv remote?
I'm pretty sure it does both IR and RF at the same time.

The D* remote control does both IR and RF at the same time, its the receivers that can't do both.

[armophob]

I'm pretty sure it does both IR and RF at the same time.

Good, because I spent a pretty penny on this plasma proof ir system, that could be a deal breaker to have to change up.;)

[oenophile]

Would love it if someone could post a quick spec/feature comparison between this and the Harmony 890 (the one w/RF).... :>

[RACJ2]

SO does this remote do Macros? Hoe about timed operations? Can I set it to run a macro at a given time? How many steps per macro?
This remote has potential, but I need more info before i can determine if its even worth really considering.When I looked at them at Fry's, I read everything on the outside of the package. I didn't see any mention of macros.

On the post asking about IR and RF simultaneously, the online manual says it will.

Your Xsight Touch remote (sold separately) sends two signals when
you press a key: an infrared signal (IR) for the devices you can see and a radio frequency signal (RF) for the devices you can’t. This Xsight RF Extender receives those RF signals and translates them to IR signals the hidden devices can understand.

And if you are thinking it will do the native D* RF, from the post below I don't believe it will.
Take this with a huge grain of salt since it comes from AR support (via email), but they tell me the xsight can't do native DirecTV RF. I don't know if they really understood the question or not, but that's what they said. The email was signed "Audiovox Customer Care", which owns the One-For-All and RCA remote brands. UEI is the OEM for them. So AR just slaps their name on them and sells them (ok, if they actually existed, they'd sell them). In any case I wouldn't expect AR to know any technical details about the xsight.
The new nevo does sound promising. Their other models are serious remotes (wifi, web, ip device control, etc). The xsight isn't even in the same league as the nevo.

[TheRatPatrol]

And if you are thinking it will do the native D* RF, from the post below I don't believe it will.
Yes it can. This is from the owners manual:

DIRECTV® RF
The Xsight™ Touch remote can control DIRECTV® satellite receivers with RF capability even when the satellite receiver is hidden in a closed cabinet or in a different room. The Xsight™ Touch can control DIRECTV® receivers with RF capability without using the ARRE433B RF extender.

[RACJ2]

Yes it can. This is from the owners manual:Excellent... I guess I skimmed over a couple posts above when I replied to the other question.

[Mike Bertelson]

Yes it can. This is from the owners manual:That's very cool. Top posted the manual a while back and I was very glad to read that.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2196461#post2196461

We can now put the native support question to rest. The XSight does in fact support native RF for DirecTV receivers without the need of any other equipment...Very, Very Cool :D

I'm going to get this remote. It seems like exactly what I need. I do have a bunch of custom icons for my MX-810 but I'll get over it. :grin:

Mike

[mdavej]

TheRatPatrol,

The response I got from AR support about D* RF was obviously wrong. Their response actually was almost an exact quote from the manual but was changed to state the opposite. There's no doubt it works. In addition to the manual, we even have reports from actual users who've done it.

Although I don't have this remote, there are a few things I've seen from users of the Eurpean version that probably apply to this one. Compared to harmony the device state tracking is lacking. If things get out of sync, there's no help button to set them right. But usually running the activity again should do the trick. You do have more flexibility in building activities since you can more easily add any function from any device. Like harmony, you can put any command on any button. Someone reported they did a 10 step macro, and although they didn't know what the limit was, they didn't reach it.

[TheRatPatrol]

Someone reported they did a 10 step macro, and although they didn't know what the limit was, they didn't reach it.
So does this mean that indeed it can support macros then? Because the online owners manual doesn't mention it at all. I wonder if the online Ez set up page covers this in more detail?

[Drew2k]

[A European version user] reported they did a 10 step macro, and although they didn't know what the limit was, they didn't reach it.Excellent! :up:

[mdavej]

So does this mean that indeed it can support macros then? Because the online owners manual doesn't mention it at all. I wonder if the online Ez set up page covers this in more detail?
Apparently so. But I don't have any more details. If I had to guess, xsight activities are just wizard-built macros, and macros are just manually built macros. Based on how other UEI remotes work and some conclusions I've drawn from other reports, unlike harmony, once you perform an activity, you've simply run a macro and can run other macros after that, whether they're other activities or other custom macros. It's not like you're in a particular mode of operation like harmony. I'm sure it maps certain keys for the activity like harmony. It's probably more like a mainstream universal with the wizard added to help you build macros by answering questions. Beyond that, it sounds like you can custom build whatever other macros you want without using the wizard.

Like you, I'm keeping an eye on the xsight thread at AVS forums for the real story.

[Drew2k]

I created an account on the EZ-RC web site to see if I could understand the setup better and how activities and macros work, but after registering it immediately asks for the device driver on the remote's CD and for the remote to be plugged in. So ... no "pre-testing" ... :(

[John Buckingham]

I'm setting up my ARRX18G now. I'm having difficulty setting up my Playstation 3. I like the packaging it reminds me of my iPhone box.

[Mike Bertelson]

I created an account on the EZ-RC web site to see if I could understand the setup better and how activities and macros work, but after registering it immediately asks for the device driver on the remote's CD and for the remote to be plugged in. So ... no "pre-testing" ... :(Sorry, I meant to post that last week. I could have saved you the time.:grin:

I tried to get it to move on but no dice. :shrug: You gotta have the remote to get anywhere.

Mike

[dettxw]

I ordered the ARRX18G yesterday through Amazon, but the delivery estimate is 2-8 September.
Guess I would have been better off to have driven down to Dallas and visited Fry's.
(Not that I really could have squeezed it in, moving #1 son Saturday and need to go to Tulsa on Sunday)
I imagine that someone will pick one up at a B&M before I get mine.Shipped Friday, estimated delivery Thursday.

And no unrecoverable injuries from moving the kiddo.
(They'll heal in time to move a co-worker this coming up Saturday. :lol: )

[dettxw]

I'm setting up my ARRX18G now. I'm having difficulty setting up my Playstation 3. I like the packaging it reminds me of my iPhone box.PS3 uses Bluetooth, does this remote do that in addition to IR and RF?
Or do you have an adapter?

[Drew2k]

Sorry, I meant to post that last week. I could have saved you the time.:grin:

I tried to get it to move on but no dice. :shrug: You gotta have the remote to get anywhere.

MikeGee, thanks Mike! :p

It's too bad they blocked true test-drives ... and doubly-too bad they require silverlight and won't work in Firefox. :(

Triply double-bad is I'm reading on AVSForums that the XSight does not remember state changes like the Harmony remotes do, so if a device is missed during a power-on or power-off sequence, it's not as simple as pressing HELP on the Harmony remote to have specific discrete commands sent.

[dconfer]

If there were somewhere local to me that I could pick one up I would but no one has confirmed that they can be found at Best Buy and Best Buy does not list them on their website.

I saw this at best buy yesterday. I was looking at upgrading my tv in the bedroom. 249.99 for the touch.

[Mike Bertelson]

Gee, thanks Mike! :p

It's too bad they blocked true test-drives ... and doubly-too bad they require silverlight and won't work in Firefox. :(

Triply double-bad is I'm reading on AVSForums that the XSight does not remember state changes like the Harmony remotes do, so if a device is missed during a power-on or power-off sequence, it's not as simple as pressing HELP on the Harmony remote to have specific discrete commands sent.I'm not likin' that too much. Lucky for me my TV has discrete power commands and everything goes through an HDMI switch so I think I should be ok.

Mike

[Drew2k]

I'm not likin' that too much. Lucky for me my TV has discrete power commands and everything goes through an HDMI switch so I think I should be ok.

MikeSame here - almost evey device I have has discrete on and off commands. I have an XSight Touch being shipped tomorrow so hopefully I'll have some feedback to share in the next week. :)

[John Buckingham]

PS3 uses Bluetooth, does this remote do that in addition to IR and RF?
Or do you have an adapter?

I guess not. That's a bit of a pain!

[RunnerFL]

I saw this at best buy yesterday. I was looking at upgrading my tv in the bedroom. 249.99 for the touch.

Very interesting. It's still not listed on their site. I may have to stop on my way home from work tomorrow night.

[gully_foyle]

Gee, thanks Mike! :p

Triply double-bad is I'm reading on AVSForums that the XSight does not remember state changes like the Harmony remotes do, so if a device is missed during a power-on or power-off sequence, it's not as simple as pressing HELP on the Harmony remote to have specific discrete commands sent.

Triple-plus-good over here as that was the thing I HATED about Harmony. Control should never ever rely on knowing the state -- that can never work well.

My wife had some very choice things to say about the "help" thing on the Harmony. Something about the remote supposed to help HER, not the other way around. I sent the Harmony back.

Of course, if you like that, then you should stick with the Harmony. But not everything should work that way.

[gully_foyle]

Got an ARRX15G (the one without RF, so don't ask). The one off ebay, and yes, it was New In Box. Needs 3 AAs, but for $80 it can have them.

One thing to note: Xsight does not directly list the codes for the 2nd or greater HR2x boxes. You have to use the advanced code menu to get S1388 for AV1. Note that the codes seem to match the Slingbox/One4All codeset, at least in this example.

It does know Roku and PopcornHour and Oppo and countless manufacturers I've never heard of.

There are also some funnies: In the web software, the text reverts to German for some nouns, like "Fernseher." The web also uses .net 3.5, which lets out Firefox. You need Internet Exploder.

Uses mini-B-USB (not the newer microUSB) to connect. Yet another flavor cable for me.

It has full macros and WYSIWYG editing of command and macro placement. Need to play with this more, but as a JP1 user I like it a lot so far.

The most glaring issue: a device marketed as a DirecTV accessory should really know about multiple DVR control at the very least. Instead you have to hunt through a list for the extra codes. But at least they ARE there. And it did know about the extended Denon code sets.

More to come: my life is unfortunately full this week.

[gully_foyle]

Has anyone found a list of supported device manufacturers? Before I make the leap, it needs to be able to run Escient and Sunfire.

It has Escient among media devices and Sunfire among Audio. However it does not accept TG5 or TGM100 as known model numbers (and it does not have a list-all-model numbers function), and I have no way to go through its code-trial method.

[bonscott87]

Triple-plus-good over here as that was the thing I HATED about Harmony. Control should never ever rely on knowing the state -- that can never work well.

My wife had some very choice things to say about the "help" thing on the Harmony. Something about the remote supposed to help HER, not the other way around. I sent the Harmony back.

Of course, if you like that, then you should stick with the Harmony. But not everything should work that way.

+1000

SO glad it doesn't do the state thing. I hate that as well. I never did get the need for that anyway. Of course I'm an MX user so it's not even an option. All my DirecTV receivers are always on and my TV gets shut off with my global Off macro. I don't think I've ever encountered the need for the remote to know if something is on or off.

This remote is looking better and better all the time.

[spartanstew]

I guess not. That's a bit of a pain!

I sold my PS3 recently and have an IR2BT controller that I was getting ready to sell on Ebay. If you're interested send me a PM.

[armophob]

It has Escient among media devices and Sunfire among Audio. However it does not accept TG5 or TGM100 as known model numbers (and it does not have a list-all-model numbers function), and I have no way to go through its code-trial method.

Cool, Thanks:) That means I'm in. I will check Best Buy tomorrow, then hit Amazon if no luck.

[Drew2k]

I've liked that the state is remembered because it shortens the amount of IR commands sent when switching activities. I have four DVRs, a BD and HD-DVD player and Wii on my living room TV, along with the AV system. When I start the system by choosing an activity, it sends TV ON exactly once, AV ON exactly once, and powers up the intended source device. If I switch to a different activity, it only has to send the device command -it doesn't have to send TV ON and AV ON commands again, as it knows they are on. I've used harmony remotes well over four years now and have always liked this feature. As with anything, YMMV, and it's clear not all of us like it! :)

[Drew2k]

Got an ARRX15G (the one without RF, so don't ask). The one off ebay, and yes, it was New In Box. Needs 3 AAs, but for $80 it can have them.

One thing to note: Xsight does not directly list the codes for the 2nd or greater HR2x boxes. You have to use the advanced code menu to get S1388 for AV1. Note that the codes seem to match the Slingbox/One4All codeset, at least in this example.

It does know Roku and PopcornHour and Oppo and countless manufacturers I've never heard of.

There are also some funnies: In the web software, the text reverts to German for some nouns, like "Fernseher." The web also uses .net 3.5, which lets out Firefox. You need Internet Exploder.

Uses mini-B-USB (not the newer microUSB) to connect. Yet another flavor cable for me.

It has full macros and WYSIWYG editing of command and macro placement. Need to play with this more, but as a JP1 user I like it a lot so far.

The most glaring issue: a device marketed as a DirecTV accessory should really know about multiple DVR control at the very least. Instead you have to hunt through a list for the extra codes. But at least they ARE there. And it did know about the extended Denon code sets.

More to come: my life is unfortunately full this week.I may just go RF with my three living room DIRECTV DVRs so I won't have to dig through the code sets!

[TheRatPatrol]

I may just go RF with my three living room DIRECTV DVRs so I won't have to dig through the code sets!
I hope programming 2 or more HRs in RF mode is just as easy as programming the first.

[TheRatPatrol]

I've liked that the state is remembered because it shortens the amount of IR commands sent when switching activities. I have four DVRs, a BD and HD-DVD player and Wii on my living room TV, along with the AV system. When I start the system by choosing an activity, it sends TV ON exactly once, AV ON exactly once, and powers up the intended source device. If I switch to a different activity, it only has to send the device command -it doesn't have to send TV ON and AV ON commands again, as it knows they are on. I've used harmony remotes well over four years now and have always liked this feature. As with anything, YMMV, and it's clear not all of us like it! :)
And I hope it uses discrete ON/OFF commands instead of a power toggle.

[Drew2k]

I hope programming 2 or more HRs in RF mode is just as easy as programming the first.:p I have a feeling whichever way I go I will be getting VERY intimate with my new XSight, digging through layers of menus or screens ... :lol:

[TheRatPatrol]

:p I have a feeling whichever way I go I will be getting VERY intimate with my new XSight, digging through layers of menus or screens ... :lol:
:D Well, we'll all be waiting for your excellent review next week. :D

Unless the Shadow beats you to it. ;)

[gully_foyle]

And I hope it uses discrete ON/OFF commands instead of a power toggle.Your choice, but it has discretes for things that have them, as far as I've tested. It has discrete codes for the HR2x, and the Panasonic DVD & BD players, but not the Denon (although I'm pretty sure that's on the extended code set I haven't loaded yet).

Next to test:

Activities
Macros
Editing

[gully_foyle]

http://www.nativesun.com/images/xsight_edit_Denon.jpg

Sample page edit (Denon AVR-3808CI)

[TheRatPatrol]

Sample page edit (Denon AVR-3808CI)
I understand what macros do, but could you please explain what we're looking at here exactly? Are you taking one of those buttons and making it into a macro?

Thanks

[gully_foyle]

I understand what macros do, but could you please explain what we're looking at here exactly? Are you taking one of those buttons and making it into a macro?

Thanks

Here, I'm just dropping one of the many unassigned functions onto a soft button. No macros yet. Macros can also be assigned in the same way, but I haven't truied to create one yet. "ALL OFF" will be the first test. Pretty sure there's an "activity" that will build the same thing.

I had said that I couldn't see the discretes for the Denon in a previous post -- they're there, but I had to assign them myself. For some reason they weren't among the auto-assigned buttons. Unlike, say, the MX-450, the software doesn't assign every last function itself.

[RunnerFL]

I just got back from Best Buy with an Xsight Touch. Odd that they aren't on their site but they are in stores...

Will post more later!

[Mike Bertelson]

I just got back from Best Buy with an Xsight Touch. Odd that they aren't on their site but they are in stores...

Will post more later!I was in my BB on Sunday and they had a bunch of Harmony's but XSight. :(

[RunnerFL]

I was in my BB on Sunday and they had a bunch of Harmony's but XSight. :(

There were 2 Xsight Touch remotes at my BB. Now there is only one. They had the extender too if needed.

[dettxw]

I was out and about at lunchtime and the BB across the street (Midwest City) had a couple. No actual display, just a spot identified where it should be.
I should have waited and just bought one locally, but mine is now statusing as showing up tomorrow via UPS.

Anybody want to buy a barely used Harmony 880? It's sat in a drawer now for the past few months.

[gully_foyle]

Sorry to put this up piecemeal blog-style... but I think folks want any scraps of info they can get as they make buying decisions.

Two minor complaints about key-layout on the COLOR (15G): the arrow circle area is a bit cramped, and the softkey page scroll and the 4 keys below it are a bit too close together. This last may be different on the TOUCH (18G)

Then again, I've been using the Radio Shack 15-1994 (http://www.hifi-remote.com/ofa/) for the last 10 years and its keyspacing is quite generous, so maybe I'm just spoiled.

[RunnerFL]

First word of advice I have for anyone who's getting one of these...

Set it up using a laptop while sitting in the same room as the devices you are setting up. For any device that it has multiple codes for and for ANY activity you have to confirm immediately. Not one big way to confirm everything at the end. Lots of running back and forth if you aren't in the same room as the gear.

[RunnerFL]

I hope programming 2 or more HRs in RF mode is just as easy as programming the first.

I may have bad news for you then... I think you can only do one DirecTV box in RF. I'm still trying to figure it out though.

[Tom Robertson]

I may have bad news for you then... I think you can only do one DirecTV box in RF. I'm still trying to figure it out though.
With 18 devices they would make only one DIRECTV RF??? That don't make no sense... (And I find it very hard to believe.)

Cheers,
Tom

[RunnerFL]

With 18 devices they would make only one DIRECTV RF??? That don't make no sense... (And I find it very hard to believe.)

Cheers,
Tom

If it's not possible, and I'm still working on it, then the remote is going back to Best Buy.

[Tom Robertson]

If it's not possible, and I'm still working on it, then the remote is going back to Best Buy.

Indeed! I had high hopes for this remote... ;)

[bonscott87]

I've liked that the state is remembered because it shortens the amount of IR commands sent when switching activities. I have four DVRs, a BD and HD-DVD player and Wii on my living room TV, along with the AV system. When I start the system by choosing an activity, it sends TV ON exactly once, AV ON exactly once, and powers up the intended source device. If I switch to a different activity, it only has to send the device command -it doesn't have to send TV ON and AV ON commands again, as it knows they are on. I've used harmony remotes well over four years now and have always liked this feature. As with anything, YMMV, and it's clear not all of us like it! :)

Gotcha! I have a different way of doing things.

I have a global ON command which turns on the TV, AVR and backlight.
I also have a global OFF command which turns off the same things.

Then each device (or activity in Harmony speak) has it's own macro. So if my wife wants to watch the HR20 she click the HR20 labled button and it runs a macro which switches inputs on the TV and AVR and then it's ready to go. Same kind of macro for each device/activity. Since I never turn this stuff off I don't need any remembered state of on/off. The only thing that might be a use for is the DVD player but that's easy enough to turn on.

Just different ways we use this stuff. :D

[David Ortiz]

I may have bad news for you then... I think you can only do one DirecTV box in RF. I'm still trying to figure it out though.

I posed this question earlier. The manual seems to indicate a global setting for DIRECTV RF, not a per device setting. I agree, though, the option should be there to control more than one receiver via direct RF.

[mdavej]

Same here. On my non-harmony remotes, my "activity" macros just turn stuff on (and of course do input switching, key mapping, etc.). My "master off" macro turns everything off. Since I'm able to use discretes for all my devices, sending extra ON's has no ill effects if I run the same macro several times. Same with off. I could run it a hundred times and nothing will turn on. I don't care about turning unused devices off when switching activities. It would be nice, but it's unnecessary. And macros run so fast compared to my harmony, I don't have to worry about the extra time it would take to run a big macro every time. My 10 to 15 step macros run in a second or two.

[RunnerFL]

Something else... Unless I'm missing something if you add a device using the remote it is NOT seen in the ez-rc software even after a "sync".

I'm posting about the more important things as I come across them. I'll have other notes later.

EDIT: Ok, there is a trick to this. You have to logout of the software if you're in for the first time. Then when you login again you're given the option to upload settings from the remote. HOWEVER doing so deletes what you've already setup in the software. So if you've already setup devices using the remote before you installed the software and created an account you have to logout and log back in to upload the info from the remote to the software. crazy...

[bonscott87]

FYI for those with Best Buy rewards zone I just got mine in the mail today and 12% off this weekend into next week. So if you're a BBWZ member might want to hold off until you get that coupon and go get it this weekend.

[RunnerFL]

Ok guys, it is just as I thought... You can only use "DirecTV RF" for One receiver. :(

Looks like back it goes...

[Tom Robertson]

Ok guys, it is just as I thought... You can only use "DirecTV RF" for One receiver. :(

Looks like back it goes...

Called their support?

[RunnerFL]

I'm also finding that when you're using ez-rc.com to setup activities it doesn't always honor what you put for input.

For instance I'm trying to setup an activity that turns on the TV and changes it to the "TV" input. I choose "TV" from the list of inputs and when the remote is updated input is being set to "None". Not good...

[RunnerFL]

Called their support?

You don't need to. The remote itself makes it impossible.

When you turn on "DirecTV RF" it asks you for the last 6 of the RID of one device. It then assigns RF to, obviously, the device who's RID you used and also assigns it to the device settings for the one device in the remote and any activities that use that device. If you go to setup a second dvr and go into DirecTV RF it already shows as "On" and once it's on there is no way to add another RF code. If you turn it off and then turn it back on it has the last 6 of the RID you already programmed. If you change the 6 then the one you already had setup for RF stops working.

EDIT: Let me add to this... This remote is CLEARLY not designed to handle more than one DirecTV remote in the same room regardless of how the unit is setup. Once you turn on DirecTV RF for one remote it assigns that RF code to EVERY DirecTV unit in your setup. I created 3 activities. One for my HR21-700, one for my HR21-100 and one for my H21-100. After turning on the RF for the HR21-700 all activities now want to power on/off the HR21-700.

I'm not happy...

[armophob]

Ok guys, it is just as I thought... You can only use "DirecTV RF" for One receiver. :(

Looks like back it goes...

Oh wow, that is a deal breaker. No wonder they stopped replying to the Shadows emails. They certainly did not want to get cornered on that detail.
Thanks for the heads up, I just saved 250 clams.

[Stuart Sweet]

It does go a little distance toward explaining why they didn't want a pre-release review.

[RunnerFL]

Oh wow, that is a deal breaker. No wonder they stopped replying to the Shadows emails. They certainly did not want to get cornered on that detail.
Thanks for the heads up, I just saved 250 clams.

That and all the other things I've run into really make me wish I waited. I feel like an idiot now... Oh well, I'll be stopping at Best Buy tomorrow night to return it.

[RunnerFL]

It does go a little distance toward explaining why they didn't want a pre-release review.

It certainly does. I'd actually go as far as using the word "deceptive" when describing the hype surrounding this remote.

[Stuart Sweet]

Well, if I contributed at all to that undeserved hype, please accept this heartfelt apology.

[Tom Robertson]

It certainly does. I'd actually go as far as using the word "deceptive" when describing the hype surrounding this remote.

Well... a lot of the hype was really our hope. :)

[RunnerFL]

Well, if I contributed at all to that undeserved hype, please accept this heartfelt apology.

Oh no way Stuart, I'm not blaming you at all. You just passed on what you were told. It's their documentation and promotion that I'd call deceptive. Heck, the pdf they have you bring up for "documentation" that comes with the unit doesn't even mention DirecTV RF, it stops at page 20. Another thing about that which I find strange is that the manual itself isn't on the Disc that comes with the remote. The pdf on the disc has links where you click either on the box labeled Xsight Touch or Xsight Color and you're taken to their site for the pdf. That pdf is nothing like the one Tom posted in the thread.

[RunnerFL]

Well... a lot of the hype was really our hope. :)

True, I still feel like I have the word "sucker" written on my forehead right now though.

[armophob]

That and all the other things I've run into really make me wish I waited. I feel like an idiot now... Oh well, I'll be stopping at Best Buy tomorrow night to return it.

The only reason I don't have one today is because I did not want to get out in the rain on the way home.

[RunnerFL]

Even if you remove and re-add the other DirecTV receivers in your setup once you have DirecTV RF on you can only control one receiver period.

Oh, and even the simplest of things doesn't work on this remote. I just noticed the clock isn't even keeping time right. I set it when I got home today, around 1:30pm, and the clock on the remote now says it is 4:55 when it is 6:13. sheesh!

[Stuart Sweet]

OK, that is a big difference. My Harmony 880 loses about 1 minute every 5 days but never anything that extreme.

[RunnerFL]

The only reason I don't have one today is because I did not want to get out in the rain on the way home.

Heh, the only reason mine isn't going back right now is because it's pouring down rain here. :lol:

[RunnerFL]

OK, that is a big difference. My Harmony 880 loses about 1 minute every 5 days but never anything that extreme.

Yeah, I'm considering going back to my 880. I had been using a Harmony Xbox 360 remote since it had the colored buttons. What I think I'll do is break out the 880 mainly for switching between activities and use my Buccaneers remote to control the receivers in RF.

[John Buckingham]

I sold my PS3 recently and have an IR2BT controller that I was getting ready to sell on Ebay. If you're interested send me a PM.

If I'm not mistaken this is a Harmony device?

[bonscott87]

Since I could care less about RF and would get the 15/color model instead anyway I'd guess this RF limitation doesn't effect me at all. I can still control multiple DirecTV receivers via IR just fine I'd guess.

[Drew2k]

Something else... Unless I'm missing something if you add a device using the remote it is NOT seen in the ez-rc software even after a "sync".

I'm posting about the more important things as I come across them. I'll have other notes later.

EDIT: Ok, there is a trick to this. You have to logout of the software if you're in for the first time. Then when you login again you're given the option to upload settings from the remote. HOWEVER doing so deletes what you've already setup in the software. So if you've already setup devices using the remote before you installed the software and created an account you have to logout and log back in to upload the info from the remote to the software. crazy...Thanks for the "blogging" as you set this up. This sounds very crazy indeed.

My Touch arrives tomorrow but I'll be sure to do all setup via the web site to avoid some of these problems, but I don't have high hopes for this remote now...

[Drew2k]

FYI for those with Best Buy rewards zone I just got mine in the mail today and 12% off this weekend into next week. So if you're a BBWZ member might want to hold off until you get that coupon and go get it this weekend.I'm not sure if all RZ members are on the same
schedule - I got my 12% coupons a few weeks ago.

Be sure to check the back to make sure AR remotes are not excluded, along with Bose and BDI furniture!

[Drew2k]

Even if you remove and re-add the other DirecTV receivers in your setup once you have DirecTV RF on you can only control one receiver period.Did you experiment with multiple IR code sets? Wondering if that's more successful than RF. (Although this was probably covered already, wasn't it? My memory has been fuzzy the last couple of days.)

Oh, and even the simplest of things doesn't work on this remote. I just noticed the clock isn't even keeping time right. I set it when I got home today, around 1:30pm, and the clock on the remote now says it is 4:55 when it is 6:13. sheesh!So that's 1 hour and 18 minutes. I'm wondering if you know how long you had the device plugged in to your laptop - was it approximately that long? Just a stab in the dark, thinking maybe it stops the clock when it's connected, but you'd think that an update to the remote via the USB cable would include synchronizing or updating the time! :nono:

[TheRatPatrol]

Wow after all this, now I'm not so sure. I wonder if they know this about the RF mode, and maybe they'll work on a software/firmware upgrade?

Well I guess this gives Harmony the opportunity to step up to the plate now and create an RF remote that controls more then one HR. ;)

[spartanstew]

If I'm not mistaken this is a Harmony device?..

No, the original IR2BT came about about 18 months ago.

HERE'S (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPQjdicWn4A)a youtube video of it being set up. It's pretty simple and slick. It originally sold for about $70, but they don't make this IR2BT anymore, they started making a pro model that sells for $150 instead (ir2bt.com)

[RunnerFL]

Since I could care less about RF and would get the 15/color model instead anyway I'd guess this RF limitation doesn't effect me at all. I can still control multiple DirecTV receivers via IR just fine I'd guess.

I wasn't able to do that either. It appears to be one DirecTV receiver period.

I even tried having the remote learn the alternate codebases for 0002 and 0003. It accepted them but it wouldn't really let you add the units to an activity because when you went to setup your activity it didn't allow you to set the power state of the units and it defaulted them to "off". If a unit is set as "off" in that part of the setup of an activity it is not included in the rest of the activity setup.

[RunnerFL]

Did you experiment with multiple IR code sets? Wondering if that's more successful than RF. (Although this was probably covered already, wasn't it? My memory has been fuzzy the last couple of days.)

So that's 1 hour and 18 minutes. I'm wondering if you know how long you had the device plugged in to your laptop - was it approximately that long? Just a stab in the dark, thinking maybe it stops the clock when it's connected, but you'd think that an update to the remote via the USB cable would include synchronizing or updating the time! :nono:

Yeah, I messed with multiple IR and that didn't seem to work either. Seems like it's on DirecTV receiver only regardless of IR or RF.

A little bit about the setup:

In order to "learn" you new codes you must first set it up using one of the devices listed in the database. You then have to let it fail, which means disconnecting and running the verification test that the remote forces on you, and then when you hook it back up it knows the code failed. At that point you can select to learn from the units existing remote. You then go thru a button by button process to setup the new codebase, and of course then you have to test it [I really hated the forced tests unit by unit activity by activity instead of waiting until the end]. Then when you go thru the activity setup. The first step is to choose the power state of each device you have setup. The 2 DVR's I setup [0002 and 0003 codebases] didn't allow me to change the power state at all. Since I could not change the power state when I got to the next step the devices were excluded from the activity.

As far as the clock question... There is no way I had it hooked up that long the way they force tests on you. It's crazy... Add a device, you must test it. Add another device you must test that... Add an activity, you must test it, and so forth.

The unit does charge when plugged in via usb so I wouldn't think the clock would stop.

[RunnerFL]

Wow after all this, now I'm not so sure. I wonder if they know this about the RF mode, and maybe they'll work on a software/firmware upgrade?


I emailed them about it [I'm not one to sit on the phone all day] and the auto response said to allow 72 hours for a response. No way I'm sitting on this purchase 72 hours waiting for an answer, it's going back on my way to work this morning. I will post what they reply with if/when they reply though.

[anubys]

Wow after all this, now I'm not so sure. I wonder if they know this about the RF mode, and maybe they'll work on a software/firmware upgrade?

Well I guess this gives Harmony the opportunity to step up to the plate now and create an RF remote that controls more then one HR. ;)

this was a big blow (controlling only one DVR) that effectively eliminates this remote from contention...I just hope it puts downward price pressure on the new Harmony at this point...

[John Buckingham]

I know I'm a novice compared to most of you. However, I'm having difficulty understanding why would you need this device to operate more than one D* receiver? My remote stays in my home theater room.

[RunnerFL]

I know I'm a novice compared to most of you. However, I'm having difficulty understanding why would you need this device to operate more than one D* receiver? My remote stays in my home theater room.

I have an HR21-700, HR21-100 and H21-100 all in my living room. Thus the need to control more than one DirecTV receiver. :)

[Stuart Sweet]

Well, I was at Best Buy last night and I saw the beast. I picked it up, shook my head sadly, and put it back down. :(

[Lee L]

I know I'm a novice compared to most of you. However, I'm having difficulty understanding why would you need this device to operate more than one D* receiver? My remote stays in my home theater room.
Well, lots of people have more than one DirecTV receiver in one room.

[RunnerFL]

Well, I was at Best Buy last night and I saw the beast. I picked it up, shook my head sadly, and put it back down. :(

Beast is the right word. I'll give them this much, it's very well made. It's has some weight to it. It's made of thick plastic and doesn't feel like a toy, like most Harmony remotes do. It's not very ergonomic in comparison to others but it's well balanced and sits comfortably in your hand.

If you have a ton of stuff and only one DirecTV receiver it may be the right remote for you. But in most of our cases it won't work because of multiple receivers.

[John Buckingham]

Well, lots of people have more than one DirecTV receiver in one room.

What are the advantages of having multiple receivers?

[Stuart Sweet]

Being able to record more than two things for watching on the same TV
Being able to watch/buffer more than two things at the same time
Organizing recordings (his/hers/kids DVRs)

[TheRatPatrol]

What are the advantages of having multiple receivers?
So you can record more then 2 things at once.

[anubys]

What are the advantages of having multiple receivers?

in additions to what others have said: being able to watch two things at once (e.g. Red Zone Channel on one TV and a football game on the other)...

I might also watch a game on one TV (on mute) while the second TV has something playing for the kids...

[gully_foyle]

Since I could care less about RF and would get the 15/color model instead anyway I'd guess this RF limitation doesn't effect me at all. I can still control multiple DirecTV receivers via IR just fine I'd guess.

You can. I have. I'm a bit wary of assuming that one user has managed to eliminate all possibilities of RF as well. The IR setup is a bit odd for multiple boxes, so it would not shock me if the RF method is odd as well. I am especially wary when he reports you cannot do something that I have already managed to do (IR control of two boxes).

For IR, one has to use the advanced mode to select specific device codes (S1388 for the AV1 position), or both "devices" will control the original unit. For RF I'd suggest setting two boxes up in IR, getting them to work separately, THEN converting each to RF. I'd also suggest calling their support folks.

At the very least, this is something a software update will fix. Since my unit re-flashed itself coming out of the box, such updates are possible. Contact their support.

[gully_foyle]

If I'm not mistaken this is a Harmony device?It is NOT a Harmony device. It is designed by One4All and marketed in the USA by Acoustic Research. Harmony is owned by Logitech.

[gully_foyle]

When setting up these remotes I STRONGLY recommend that one set up all the devices before setting up activites. This is not a Harmony and is at its base, device and macro based. "Activities" are just wizard-generated macros. The problems people are having may be because they are trying to set up activities first.

[Stuart Sweet]

To be more precise, it's designed by Universal Electronics, makers of the One-For-All products.

[RunnerFL]

For RF I'd suggest setting two boxes up in IR, getting them to work separately, THEN converting each to RF. I'd also suggest calling their support folks.


I tried it, it doesn't work. Trust me if you go to turn on DirecTV RF you can only use it on ONE unit and it assigns that RF code to EVERY DirecTV device so that you can't even use one RF and one IR. Please don't assume what I did and did not try and make me out to be some sort of liar. I tried everything possible with the remote to get RF to work on more than one unit and RF to work with another unit in IR, it's not possible.

[RunnerFL]

It is NOT a Harmony device. It is designed by One4All and marketed in the USA by Acoustic Research. Harmony is owned by Logitech.

He wasn't referring to the AR remotes, he was referring to the Bluetooth to IR adapter that spartanstew was offering to him.

[RunnerFL]

When setting up these remotes I STRONGLY recommend that one set up all the devices before setting up activites. This is not a Harmony and is at its base, device and macro based. "Activities" are just wizard-generated macros. The problems people are having may be because they are trying to set up activities first.

I setup all the devices first.

Again, please do not assume what I did or did not do...

Oh, and btw, you can't setup activities without setting up the devices for them first.

[RunnerFL]

What are the advantages of having multiple receivers?

Less of a chance of recording conflicts. There are times when I'm recording a show on NBC, ABC, CBS and FOX all at the same time.

And I use the H21, for now, to watch NASCAR races so I can flip between the network feed and the Hotpass channel without disturbing recordings.

[Mike Bertelson]

Let me see if I've got this straight.

It won't allow for more then on DirecTV receiver in a room in both IR and RF.
It doesn't track TOAD power states.
Can I trick it into thinking I have two of the exact same TVs, each connected to a different DirecTV DVR? Then again why would I want to?

It sounds much easier to stick with my MX-810. :grin:

I'm majorly Bummed. :(

Mike

[Mike Bertelson]

What are the advantages of having multiple receivers?We have two in our living room for Monday & Friday night recording conflicts...no we have none :D

Mike

[RunnerFL]

Let me see if I've got this straight.

It won't allow for more then on DirecTV receiver in a room in both IR and RF.


kcmurphy88 says he was able to do this with the Xsight Color, I wasn't able to with the Xsight Touch.


It doesn't track TOAD power states.


No, it does not. And for units without discrete power on/off it can be a pain.


Can I trick it into thinking I have two of the exact same TVs, each connected to a different DirecTV DVR? Then again why would I want to?


Odds are you couldn't.

[Mike Bertelson]

kcmurphy88 says he was able to do this with the Xsight Color, I wasn't able to with the Xsight Touch.



No, it does not. And for units without discrete power on/off it can be a pain.



Odds are you couldn't.Odds are, ok IMHO this is a poorly thought out implementation.

Potential fixes could have been the reason for the delays. Just pondering out loud but maybe the fixes got pretty complicated and spawned a new remote. It's a theory....I hope. :grin:

Mike

[RunnerFL]

Odds are, ok IMHO this is a poorly thought out implementation.

Potential fixes could have been the reason for the delays. Just pondering out loud but maybe the fixes got pretty complicated and spawned a new remote. It's a theory....I hope. :grin:

Mike

Quite possibly. If I find out 6 months from now that things have been fixed and the remote will work as you'd think it should then I'd get another one. Right now though it just doesn't fit my needs since I have 3 receivers in 1 room and it will only let me control 1.

[Mike Bertelson]

Quite possibly. If I find out 6 months from now that things have been fixed and the remote will work as you'd think it should then I'd get another one. Right now though it just doesn't fit my needs since I have 3 receivers in 1 room and it will only let me control 1.
I'm with you. As much as I loved the idea of this remote in the beginning, it is now apparent that it doesn't meet the hype.

I might get an MX-880. ;)

Mike

[gully_foyle]

I tried it, it doesn't work. Trust me if you go to turn on DirecTV RF you can only use it on ONE unit and it assigns that RF code to EVERY DirecTV device so that you can't even use one RF and one IR. Please don't assume what I did and did not try and make me out to be some sort of liar. I tried everything possible with the remote to get RF to work on more than one unit and RF to work with another unit in IR, it's not possible.

I'm not "making you out to be some sort of liar", but I note that you said that you cannot have 2 DirecTV boxes controlled by _IR_ AND IN THAT YOU ARE MISTAKEN. You just cannot do it with the normal wizard sequence.

GIven that you were mistaken in this, I suggest that maybe you are mistaken in the other, and there is some sequence that will work not based on the wizards.

[gully_foyle]

I setup all the devices first.

Again, please do not assume what I did or did not do...

Oh, and btw, you can't setup activities without setting up the devices for them first.

You set upt the first box (the one on the normal unit number) with the wizard. When you set up the second one (the one on AV1), you select DirecTV, but instead of putting in the model number or remote model number, you select ADVANCED and select code S1388, test, and then write to flash.

You will now be able to control both boxes independently in IR.

[RunnerFL]

I'm not "making you out to be some sort of liar", but I note that you said that you cannot have 2 DirecTV boxes controlled by _IR_ AND IN THAT YOU ARE MISTAKEN. You just cannot do it with the normal wizard sequence.

GIven that you were mistaken in this, I suggest that maybe you are mistaken in the other, and there is some sequence that will work not based on the wizards.

This may be a difference between the touch and the color but you CANNOT have 2 in IR with the Touch... Again, don't assume...

[RunnerFL]

You set upt the first box (the one on the normal unit number) with the wizard. When you set up the second one (the one on AV1), you select DirecTV, but instead of putting in the model number or remote model number, you select ADVANCED and select code S1388, test, and then write to flash.

You will now be able to control both boxes independently in IR.

And that's EXACTLY what I tried... Again, didn't work on the Touch.

[gully_foyle]

Odds are, ok IMHO this is a poorly thought out implementation.

Potential fixes could have been the reason for the delays. Just pondering out loud but maybe the fixes got pretty complicated and spawned a new remote. It's a theory....I hope. :grin:

Mike

So far I have found some issues with the wizards, and had to try a few codes before I found the right one for the second HR2x (IR). I would think that the _IR_ firmware is the same between the 15G and 18G, but who knows?

But, the One4All wizard aside, I very much like the way the remote works and find it very well designed for someone coming from the One4All/JP1 community. But then I am a big fan of stateless logic in a remote. It may be rather badly designed for someone expecting it to work in a state-based structure like a Harmony.

I do get annoyed when one user looks at one function, and declares the entire device to be trash as a result. Especially when some of the things he reports behave differently here. Maybe I just need to be a bit more tolerant.

[gully_foyle]

And that's EXACTLY what I tried... Again, didn't work on the Touch.Question: Were your HR2x boxes originally set for RF? If so, you also have to set the second box for the other code. Just trying to find out why my 15G works differently than your 18G on the same function.

[RunnerFL]

I do get annoyed when one user looks at one function, and declares the entire device to be trash as a result. Especially when some of the things he reports behave differently here. Maybe I just need to be a bit more tolerant.

And just where did I say the remote was trash? Nowhere... I said it didn't control more than one unit in RF, it didn't control a second unit in IR when you were using RF, and that it didn't control 2 in IR. Nowhere did I say it was trash. In fact I did say some nice things about it.

I also had issue with more than one function. If you had read my posts you'd see that.

Again, don't assume... Also I'd appreciate it if you didn't flame me again.

[RunnerFL]

Question: Were your HR2x boxes originally set for RF? If so, you also have to set the second box for the other code. Just trying to find out why my 15G works differently than your 18G on the same function.

They were not, no. They were set to the 00001, 00002 and 00003 codebases. I'm no moron and I did read the instructions for the 18G where it said to set them back to IR first.

I worked with the remote for 4+ hours and tried everything imaginable and many things not in the docs. Still didn't work...

[armophob]

I do get annoyed when one user looks at one function, and declares the entire device to be trash as a result. Especially when some of the things he reports behave differently here. Maybe I just need to be a bit more tolerant.

I will trash it and I have not held one yet. Many of us were getting worked up about the idea of a universal remote that had the ability to control multiple boxes. When Shadow started trying to get more clarification, they clammed up. Because it will only control one dvr, it has lost its uniqueness and is just another remote on the table. Instead of eliminating remotes, it would add another, so it not worth me spending any money on it.

[bonscott87]

Methinks I will just wait for an MX to come out with colored buttons. I love the fact the MX series doesn't try to "help" you like many other remotes. I don't think I have ever setup a device using the code base, I just learn all button commands from the original remotes. :D

[Mike Bertelson]

Methinks I will just wait for an MX to come out with colored buttons. I love the fact the MX series doesn't try to "help" you like many other remotes. I don't think I have ever setup a device using the code base, I just learn all button commands from the original remotes. :DMethinks the same thing... :D

For now I'll stick to my MX-810.

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19523&stc=1&d=1251941550

Mike

[stevenjr]

Well, I went and bought a touch tonight (should have caught up with this thread first). I will play with it more tomorrow, but so far it sure looks like it will only control one receiver via RF. Very disappointed.

[gully_foyle]

And just where did I say the remote was trash? Nowhere... I said it didn't control more than one unit in RF, it didn't control a second unit in IR when you were using RF, and that it didn't control 2 in IR. Nowhere did I say it was trash. In fact I did say some nice things about it.

I also had issue with more than one function. If you had read my posts you'd see that.

Again, don't assume... Also I'd appreciate it if you didn't flame me again.Sorry you took the "I should be more tolerant" as a flame. Not intended that way.

[gully_foyle]

I will trash it and I have not held one yet. Many of us were getting worked up about the idea of a universal remote that had the ability to control multiple boxes. When Shadow started trying to get more clarification, they clammed up. Because it will only control one dvr, it has lost its uniqueness and is just another remote on the table. Instead of eliminating remotes, it would add another, so it not worth me spending any money on it.

but...but...but... I have one that IS controlling multiple boxes. It was not easy to set up, and I faulted them for that several days ago, but it IS possible at least in IR. Since I have a 15G, I am unable to try to make it work on an 18G, in either IR (which I am pretty sure will work) or RF (which I have some hopes can work).

I do think that when one person says: "I tried everything and it won't work", and another says "I made it work" the one that is more likely to be mistaken is the former.

But whatever. I'm happy with my purchase, and it works fine for me.

I do RATHER DISLIKE the woeful web-based wizards that require multiple workarounds, and would prefer that I could download software to my computer instead. I also think that One4All could have done a LOT better on indexing their codeset database to model numbers -- they are sometimes quite wrong (the Denon stuff is mismatched). I ALSO think they need to add alternate unit codes to their wizard logic.

Lots of problems, but the end result is something I can use after some setup grief.

This remote completely replaces the remote that I have been HAPPILY using as my ONLY remote for over 10 years, and updates it so that the many macro keys are no longer cryptic to everyone beside myself. Color keys, finally, DVR controls, finally, etc.

I have tried, and discarded several Harmony remotes, the MX-450, and other One4All remotes for a variety of reasons from "no backlight" to idiot state logic to button-based setup. I would prefer that the setup software was both better written and locally run, but this thing is finally good enough. For me. YMMV, and apparently does.

Then again, I still only have one remote controlling a TV, a complicated AV amp and 7 video sources with very few keypresses.

[RunnerFL]

Sorry you took the "I should be more tolerant" as a flame. Not intended that way.

That wasn't the part that was the flame and you know it.

[RunnerFL]

I do think that when one person says: "I tried everything and it won't work", and another says "I made it work" the one that is more likely to be mistaken is the former.


Sorry, but I think you're mistaken. You yourself admitted you can't prove me wrong since you don't have an 18G. Also another poster already posted that more than one with RF isn't possible so I'm NOT the only one.

In your little speech about how you don't like the wizards, would prefer the software was installed to your pc, etc. You forgot to mention that half of the software is in German. Good luck to people who don't understand German.

[RunnerFL]

Well, I went and bought a touch tonight (should have caught up with this thread first). I will play with it more tomorrow, but so far it sure looks like it will only control one receiver via RF. Very disappointed.

Let me know if you find out otherwise. I spent 4+ hours with the remote and couldn't make it work. I'd love to be wrong but I don't think I am.

If you get RF working on more than one unit I'd consider going back and buying one again. Although the issue of not keeping track of the power state doesn't sit well with me though.

[Mike Bertelson]

Somethings are better discussed via PM...I'm just sayin' :grin:

:backtotop

[gully_foyle]

Sorry, but I think you're mistaken. You yourself admitted you can't prove me wrong since you don't have an 18G. Also another poster already posted that more than one with RF isn't possible so I'm NOT the only one.

In your little speech about how you don't like the wizards, would prefer the software was installed to your pc, etc. You forgot to mention that half of the software is in German. Good luck to people who don't understand German.Actually I did mention it some days ago. Search on "Fernseher"

[gully_foyle]

Somethings are better discussed via PM...I'm just sayin' :grin:

:backtotop

point taken

[gully_foyle]

I can see now why this product was delayed.

In particular, the web-based setup is not ready for prime time. Yes, I can figure this stuff out, but after dealing with JP1 I'm used to it. Most if not all folks here can muddle through the software's mistakes and get anything to work that can be made to work.

But the average non-technical user is going to irate that some of his equipment doesn't set up right and that activities from the wizards have really stupid things in them (like 8 second delays for the AVR to come on before you turn on the DVD player). I could not PAY my wife enough to hold the remote in place for 10 seconds. Not much willing to do it myself.

Harmony will still own this market, and -- regardless of whether I'm happy with my remote, or whether RF works on multiple boxes -- I really think the Xsight will fail due to an awful setup experience.

Yes, Harmony setup was pretty bad when they started.... but there wasn't a "Harmony" to compete with them.

[gully_foyle]

Question for folks with 18Gs: Did your remote grab an update when you first accessed the setup? My 15G did.

[Drew2k]

I see there's been a lot of activity since I last posted Tuesday evening. Well, I received my XSight Touch yesterday and was excited... until I started programming it.

My one line summary: it's a lemon of a remote if you have more than one device that changes channels.

To me it's really only geared to a family that has one device for changing channels. You can only create favorites for one device, and from there you can create profiles to use those favorites, but I have a TV, cable box and three DIRECTV DVRs in one room, all of which have different channel locations for ABC, for example. TV is 7-1, Cable is 707, and DIRECTV is 7. With this remote I have to pick one of those devices to use for my favorites and that's it - I can't have three sets, one for each device.

The macros are easy to set up but the problem with them is if you assign them to a soft key you see the name of the macro, you can't customize the label. If I wanted a macro for CC I'd need three macros as I have three HR20s and each macro has to send commands for the specific IR set of each HR20. This means I have to have unique macro names and those names would be displayed in the touch screen. Who wants to see CC1, CC2, CC3 as labels?

Regarding the soft-buttons: You can't even really customize the placement of soft-keys, as it fills in the screen from the bottom up and you can't override that.

Also, the device and activity screen share the same layout, so if you only want the six most frequenly used commands in activity mode and 20 lesser used commands in device mode ... too bad. You will need to add all commands to device mode and then you'll see all of them in activity mode as well.

The Harmony has a HELP button, and I thought the XSight did not - but it has a soft-button labeled "Assist" - and it takes up the top row of your Activities screen, pushing your carefully placed keys off the page! So you are screwed - you can't have them where you want in both Device and Activity mode, as the placement of the Assist button skews the layout.

Finally, the worst thing is that when you power off it does NOT return to the Home screen - it stays in whatever mode you were: Favorites, Activity, device. That's just wrong.

On paper the features sound great, but in practice it's quite flawed.

I could see using this in a bedroom with one TV and one DVD player and one DVR, but never in a multi-DVR environment.

[dettxw]

I wonder how likely it is that some of the remotes shortcomings might be resolved in future firmware updates? Has this company been responsive in the past with their other products?

[Mike Bertelson]

I see there's been a lot of activity since I last posted Tuesday evening. Well, I received my XSight Touch yesterday and was excited... until I started programming it.

My one line summary: it's a lemon of a remote if you have more than one device that changes channels.

To me it's really only geared to a family that has one device for changing channels. You can only create favorites for one device, and from there you can create profiles to use those favorites, but I have a TV, cable box and three DIRECTV DVRs in one room, all of which have different channel locations for ABC, for example. TV is 7-1, Cable is 707, and DIRECTV is 7. With this remote I have to pick one of those devices to use for my favorites and that's it - I can't have three sets, one for each device.

The macros are easy to set up but the problem with them is if you assign them to a soft key you see the name of the macro, you can't customize the label. If I wanted a macro for CC I'd need three macros as I have three HR20s and each macro has to send commands for the specific IR set of each HR20. This means I have to have unique macro names and those names would be displayed in the touch screen. Who wants to see CC1, CC2, CC3 as labels?

Regarding the soft-buttons: You can't even really customize the placement of soft-keys, as it fills in the screen from the bottom up and you can't override that.

Also, the device and activity screen share the same layout, so if you only want the six most frequenly used commands in activity mode and 20 lesser used commands in device mode ... too bad. You will need to add all commands to device mode and then you'll see all of them in activity mode as well.

The Harmony has a HELP button, and I thought the XSight did not - but it has a soft-button labeled "Assist" - and it takes up the top row of your Activities screen, pushing your carefully placed keys off the page! So you are screwed - you can't have them where you want in both Device and Activity mode, as the placement of the Assist button skews the layout.

Finally, the worst thing is that when you power off it does NOT return to the Home screen - it stays in whatever mode you were: Favorites, Activity, device. That's just wrong.

On paper the features sound great, but in practice it's quite flawed.

I could see using this in a bedroom with one TV and one DVD player and one DVR, but never in a multi-DVR environment.Wow, $250 for a remote to control a single setup...that doesn't sound like it was ready to be released.

Maybe there will be a firmware update to fix some of this. Does it automatically update firmware or do you have to force it? I ask because maybe there's a fix somewhere in there.

Mike

[Stuart Sweet]

The funny thing is this remote has been out in Europe for well over a year. Are they less picky there?

[Drew2k]

Wow, $250 for a remote to control a single setup...that doesn't sound like it was ready to be released.

Maybe there will be a firmware update to fix some of this. Does it automatically update firmware or do you have to force it? I ask because maybe there's a fix somewhere in there.

MikeWhen I ran the setup and logged in to my new EZ-RC account, it directed me to hook it up to the PC and it did three firmware updates. I will say one very positive thing about this remote: the firmware updates and downloads for new configurations were BLAZING fast.

Unfortunately all of my feedback was from after receiving the new firmware, so I think this is it for now. :(

[Drew2k]

The funny thing is this remote has been out in Europe for well over a year. Are they less picky there?Well, you know us Americans with our love of gadgets and excess! Maybe they never had more than one DVR per room over in Europe! :D

[Mike Bertelson]

When I ran the setup and logged in to my new EZ-RC account, it directed me to hook it up to the PC and it did three firmware updates. I will say one very positive thing about this remote: the firmware updates and downloads for new configurations were BLAZING fast.

Unfortunately all of my feedback was from after receiving the new firmware, so I think this is it for now. :(Bummer :(

[RunnerFL]

Question for folks with 18Gs: Did your remote grab an update when you first accessed the setup? My 15G did.

Yeah, that's the first thing it did when I hooked up the one I had.

[RunnerFL]

I see there's been a lot of activity since I last posted Tuesday evening. Well, I received my XSight Touch yesterday and was excited... until I started programming it.

My one line summary: it's a lemon of a remote if you have more than one device that changes channels.

To me it's really only geared to a family that has one device for changing channels. You can only create favorites for one device, and from there you can create profiles to use those favorites, but I have a TV, cable box and three DIRECTV DVRs in one room, all of which have different channel locations for ABC, for example. TV is 7-1, Cable is 707, and DIRECTV is 7. With this remote I have to pick one of those devices to use for my favorites and that's it - I can't have three sets, one for each device.

The macros are easy to set up but the problem with them is if you assign them to a soft key you see the name of the macro, you can't customize the label. If I wanted a macro for CC I'd need three macros as I have three HR20s and each macro has to send commands for the specific IR set of each HR20. This means I have to have unique macro names and those names would be displayed in the touch screen. Who wants to see CC1, CC2, CC3 as labels?

Regarding the soft-buttons: You can't even really customize the placement of soft-keys, as it fills in the screen from the bottom up and you can't override that.

Also, the device and activity screen share the same layout, so if you only want the six most frequenly used commands in activity mode and 20 lesser used commands in device mode ... too bad. You will need to add all commands to device mode and then you'll see all of them in activity mode as well.

The Harmony has a HELP button, and I thought the XSight did not - but it has a soft-button labeled "Assist" - and it takes up the top row of your Activities screen, pushing your carefully placed keys off the page! So you are screwed - you can't have them where you want in both Device and Activity mode, as the placement of the Assist button skews the layout.

Finally, the worst thing is that when you power off it does NOT return to the Home screen - it stays in whatever mode you were: Favorites, Activity, device. That's just wrong.

On paper the features sound great, but in practice it's quite flawed.

I could see using this in a bedroom with one TV and one DVD player and one DVR, but never in a multi-DVR environment.

It's nice having someone back me up on the multi-device aspect of this.

[John Buckingham]

Question for folks with 18Gs: Did your remote grab an update when you first accessed the setup? My 15G did.

Yes it did.

[gully_foyle]

The Harmony has a HELP button, and I thought the XSight did not - but it has a soft-button labeled "Assist" - and it takes up the top row of your Activities screen, pushing your carefully placed keys off the page! So you are screwed - you can't have them where you want in both Device and Activity mode, as the placement of the Assist button skews the layout.
I'm willing to bet that some suit came along well after the firmware was done and said "The Harmony has a HELP button, and we don't -- put one in and make it BIG."

[armophob]

The funny thing is this remote has been out in Europe for well over a year. Are they less picky there?

I would be comfortable in calling this remote "very European". I will stop short of calling it Euro trash.:D

[mdavej]

You have to admit the power users here on dbstalk do push the envelope with any remote. I imagine your average Joe with one receiver and one favorite channels list would like having a decent RF universal for much less money than a similar harmony. If/when the prices come down a little, I'd still like to try one. Coming from a JP1/UEI background like KC, and with a one-receiver setup, I think I could be happy with it, warts and all.

I appreciate all the reports and detailed info from Runner, KC and Drew. From Runner's reports and my understanding of the RF setup, multi-receiver control over RF does appear to be impossible at this time.

I'm not excusing UEI's poor software design, but remember too that harmony has had years to work the kinks out of their line. This is essentially rev 1.0 for UEI. Although it has many problems, the screenshots of the xsight software certainly LOOK better and a little easier to use than harmony. I hope the competition makes both lines stronger. Harmony has started taking its customers for granted, crippling it's latest models to save a few bucks (fewer devices, no sequences, etc.).

[Drew2k]

It's nice having someone back me up on the multi-device aspect of this.I still haven't even gotten into trying to add the other HR2x yet... so far just dealing with a few macros and favorites pointed out the inherent flaws if additional devices were to be added. Maybe a firmware upgrade in the future will make the remote more robust, as there's so much promise, but such poor execution ...

[Drew2k]

You have to admit the power users here on dbstalk do push the envelope with any remote. I imagine your average Joe with one receiver and one favorite channels list would like having a decent RF universal for much less money than a similar harmony. If/when the prices come down a little, I'd still like to try one. Coming from a JP1/UEI background like KC, and with a one-receiver setup, I think I could be happy with it, warts and all.
I would have thought that someone in charge of the software or during beta testing would have realized that it's a bad idea when pressing the master OFF button not to return to the Home screen on the remote. That to me is just a no-brainer. Beyond that, not having an option to hide the assist button, or to only show it as a question after starting the activity (Did everything start as expected? Yes/No) so that it can be hidden is also fairly obvious to me. Why would a user need to see ASSIST if everything started up correctly? It takes up two precious button presses.
And why can't macros be given a custom label that is different from the macro name? I just really think that all of this should have been identified during preliminary testing. Like I said above, I'd love if a future firmware fixes these shortcomings, but I don't have high hopes...

[TheRatPatrol]

I hope the competition makes both lines stronger.
I agree.

I'd like to see one of three things happen:



Xsight updates their software to allow multiple RF codes to be used, and fix some of the other issues listed above.
Harmony comes out with an adapter that allows the HR to be used in RF mode via the USB port, like they did with the PS3.
D* fixes the HR so that it can operate in both IR and RF modes at the same time.

:D

[anubys]

I'll just settle for a price war and then buy the new Harmony...thankyouverymuch!

[stevenjr]

Well, I went and bought a touch tonight (should have caught up with this thread first). I will play with it more tomorrow, but so far it sure looks like it will only control one receiver via RF. Very disappointed.

Well, looks like I'm taking it back. I would concider it again if they ever updated it so that I can setup multiple DirecTv RF receivers, which is the primary reason I purchased this remote. The setup was so much easier than Harmony.

On the down side, I can't even get a hold of their customer service, no phone numbers and even though I'm logged in, I can't get to the "Ask a question" page.

[stevenjr]

Well, looks like I'm taking it back. I would concider it again if they ever updated it so that I can setup multiple DirecTv RF receivers, which is the primary reason I purchased this remote. The setup was so much easier than Harmony.

On the down side, I can't even get a hold of their customer service, no phone numbers and even though I'm logged in, I can't get to the "Ask a question" page.

I did finally find a phone number for their customer service the the CSR confirmed that only one DirecTv receiver using RF.

[dettxw]

A lot of issues with this remote have been well documented, so I'll just throw this one thing out there.

Remote so far set up for one HR20-700 (RF), A/V Receiver, and TV.

There is nasty keybounce and also missed key presses.
Simply trying to rummage through the Guide was a chore.
You either get double keypresses or none more than half the time.
Now that's a reason to return it.

[TheRatPatrol]

I did finally find a phone number for their customer service the the CSR confirmed that only one DirecTv receiver using RF.
Did they say if they're working on an update to fix that?

Thanks

[RunnerFL]

Did they say if they're working on an update to fix that?

Thanks

My guess is that the hardware isn't capable. If it was capable I would think they'd have the ability when they were released.

[armophob]

My guess is that the hardware isn't capable. If it was capable I would think they'd have the ability when they were released.

I could have said the same thing about my HR20-700 2 years ago:lol:

I have learned patience, and can still reserve hope. But they had better have proof next time.;)

[TheRatPatrol]

Anyone know why the HR can't do IR and RF at the same time?

[RunnerFL]

I could have said the same thing about my HR20-700 2 years ago:lol:

I have learned patience, and can still reserve hope. But they had better have proof next time.;)

I'm not really sure that's a fair comparison. They knew when they built it that it was capable of DirecTV RF, if it was capable of multiple DirecTV RF why not enable that? With the HR20 I think a lot of what has been added were new ideas that came up after the HR20 was thought of and they figured out a way to make it work, like MRV and we know DLB was an afterthought.

[mdavej]

My guess is that the hardware isn't capable. If it was capable I would think they'd have the ability when they were released.I'm sure the hardware IS capable. UEI makes D* which can do it, and xsight which can't. I think it's just a user interface oversight, since they only give you one spot to associate a receiver ID. Mulit-RF was likely not a requirement when the software was designed. If you want it, you should let AR know and remind them that other remotes with the same processor can do it today.

[RunnerFL]

I'm sure the hardware IS capable. UEI makes D* which can do it, and xsight which can't. I think it's just a user interface oversight, since they only give you one spot to associate a receiver ID. Mulit-RF was likely not a requirement when the software was designed. If you want it, you should let AR know and remind them that other remotes with the same processor can do it today.

How do you know for sure the processor is the same?

[mdavej]

I don't know for sure. But if someone would volunteer to open one up and see, I would ;)

[gully_foyle]

I really wanted to like this remote (ARRX15G "Color"). Really I did. And I will probably use it for my system -- it looks like it can be made to work. But....

After some experimentation I have a few rants regarding the programmers who botched several parts of the firmware and/or web setup.

You can get it to work for a reasonably complicated system (all sources of a Denon 3808ci filled). But OMG the trouble that you have to smash out of the way.

Examples:


The Activities use softkey functions, but index them by POSITION not by function. Reorder the device softkeys and everything breaks.
Any Activity causes a double-wide (and largely useless) softkey called "Assist" (aka "help") to displace the target device's softkeys "south". So the lower two first-page softkeys are pushed to the second page and so forth.
The main power button is not assigned during Activity invocation, but is stuck on the last device directly selected. For things that do not have discretes, like most DVD players, this is a pain and a half. Usually you have to create a power softkey.
Macros cannot assign key-sections to devices (e.g. transport controls to blu-ray), so you cannot use macros to bypass the activity setup.
There s no direct way to indicate unit number if you happen to have 2 or more of something. You must use codesearch techniques to find the codes for higher unit numbers. I have a Panny Bluray and a Panny DVD, as well as two DirecTV DVRs. Made it work, but a chore.


Personally, the people who wrote the firmware either have no fracking idea what they are doing OR the web software interfaces with the firmware abysmally, OR maybe both. After 30 years writing real-time embedded code, I just get ill when I think of how moronic the software design is.

Saved only by a really good hardware design, complete code base, and capabilities that still work after clueless crippling.

[gully_foyle]

I would really be interested in a project to bring this into the JP1 community via the USB. Clearly you can update the firmware that way, why not just replace it? Great hardware, abysmal software.

[RunnerFL]

Great hardware, abysmal software.

Hmmmm, looks like we finally agree...

[Mike Bertelson]

I guess I need to just put a fork in this remote and move on. The problem is if I upgrade to a better remote now I won't get this one if they ever fix the issues. :(

Mike

[gully_foyle]

Hmmmm, looks like we finally agree...The stuff I started with worked well, and I had a hard time believing that things that worked on one model would not work on another.

Then I waded deeper into the pool....

[gully_foyle]

BTW, I am coming to the conclusion that the fault is in the web setup, not the firmware. I think that the unit has many low-level functions that are unavailable/unused/underused/wrongly-used by the web setup functions.

I have not caught the programmed unit screwing up in what it is programmed to do, but I HAVE seen many things I want to program prevented by the web software. There is no functional reason why I have to use an activity to assign transport controls to a device, for example, except that the web software does not offer another option.

[armophob]

I guess I need to just put a fork in this remote and move on. The problem is if I upgrade to a better remote now I won't get this one if they ever fix the issues. :(

Mike

I certainly think this thread has run its course. Maybe if the ones who purchased it want to start new threads for individual topics on its troubles, but I think the hype has been busted. And its all RunnerFL's fault. :lol:

[Mike Bertelson]

I certainly think this thread has run its course. Maybe if the ones who purchased it want to start new threads for individual topics on its troubles, but I think the hype has been busted. And its all RunnerFL's fault. :lol:Why not just keep all the discussion in a single thread...this one. :D

Mike

[RunnerFL]

I certainly think this thread has run its course. Maybe if the ones who purchased it want to start new threads for individual topics on its troubles, but I think the hype has been busted. And its all RunnerFL's fault. :lol:

Hey, I'll take the blame if I kept people from wasting their money. :D

[Tom Robertson]

Hey, I'll take the blame if I kept people from wasting their money. :D

You saved me! Thanks. :)

[anubys]

You saved me! Thanks. :)

absolutely...my mind was made up to get this until the truth came out...now I'm going to wait to see if there's a firmware update that fixes things or the new Harmony is out; whichever comes first...

my money is on the Harmony :)

[RunnerFL]

I'm just glad Best Buy has a decent return policy. :)

I too will keep my eyes open to see if this ever gets fixed but I honestly believe we'll never see the AR remote be able to control more than one HR2X in RF.

[Schoenbaum]

I'm waiting for a UR that can control my TV, AVR, and BR over RF, my DVR over IR, and my PS3 over BT. And of course provide enough functionality to be able to operate them under normal circumstances without requiring me dig out another remote. I'm a Techie, it's not that difficult. Then maybe we can get DTV to finally give us a descrambler we can put in or attach to our PC's.

[gully_foyle]

I'm waiting for a UR that can control my TV, AVR, and BR over RF, my DVR over IR, and my PS3 over BT. And of course provide enough functionality to be able to operate them under normal circumstances without requiring me dig out another remote. I'm a Techie, it's not that difficult. Then maybe we can get DTV to finally give us a descrambler we can put in or attach to our PC's.

Hmmm ... 2 (way different) RF bands plus IR ... and one of those to correct an idiot mistake by Sony (one they didn't correct with their recent respin)? Not holding my breath. Unless Sony makes it.

Edit: Post 1000.

[TheRatPatrol]

So whats the difference between the Xsights and these remotes? (http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/09/13/universal-electronics-intros-the-new-nevo-c2-and-c3-remotes/) Just the name?

[Mike Bertelson]

So whats the difference between the Xsights and these remotes? (http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/09/13/universal-electronics-intros-the-new-nevo-c2-and-c3-remotes/) Just the name?
I wondering that myself. Everything I've read has been speculation but they do look identical. :grin:

Mike

[RunnerFL]

So whats the difference between the Xsights and these remotes? (http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/09/13/universal-electronics-intros-the-new-nevo-c2-and-c3-remotes/) Just the name?

They look exactly the same to me except for the price...

[RunnerFL]

I FINALLY got an email back from AR regarding my inquiry as to controlling more than one DirecTV receiver via RF. I submitted it on 9/1/09 and got an auto reply saying I'd get a response in 72 hours, two weeks later I get...

Discussion Thread
---------------------------------------------------------------
Response (Kendall) - 09/15/2009 09:27 PM
Good Afternoon,

Thanks for contacting us, in order to get assistance for this remote control you must contact Directv.

Thanks
Kendall
customer service

Customer (Chris Story) - 09/01/2009 05:14 PM
How do I setup DirecTV RF for more than one DirecTV Receiver? The software/unit is only letting me set it up for one of my receivers.


Question Reference #090901-000104
---------------------------------------------------------------
Product Level 1: Acoustic Research
Category Level 1: Home Audio and Video
Category Level 2: Accessories
Category Level 3: Remotes
Date Created: 09/01/2009 05:14 PM
Last Updated: 09/15/2009 09:27 PM
Status: Solved
Type of Issue: Programming Codes - Remote Controls
Model Number: ARRX18G


[---001:001225:45067---]

Why on earth would I contact DirecTV for support on AR's remote???

Talk about LAME support! Wow!

[Tom Robertson]

Egad!!

[armophob]

Why on earth would I contact DirecTV for support on AR's remote???

Talk about LAME support! Wow!

Do keep us updated on how the Directv CSR handles that call.:lol:

[bigpro]

I must admit, apparently between me and the fence post, that I absolutely love this remote. I don't have some of these crazy set-ups some of you guys, just the bread-and-butter, but it's replaced all my remotes, is easy to add functions that it missed, and even my wife can figure it out. Sorry, but this thing is a homerun in my book.

[Tom Robertson]

I must admit, apparently between me and the fence post, that I absolutely love this remote. I don't have some of these crazy set-ups some of you guys, just the bread-and-butter, but it's replaced all my remotes, is easy to add functions that it missed, and even my wife can figure it out. Sorry, but this thing is a homerun in my book.
That's exactly why some of us are so disappointed. When it was announced that it could do RF DIRECTV, looked way cool, sounded perfect, etc. we were very happy. Only to have it crashing down now.

I sure hope they fix the firmware so it can do multiple RF receivers. That would be so very cool.

Cheers,
Tom

[John Buckingham]

I must admit, apparently between me and the fence post, that I absolutely love this remote. I don't have some of these crazy set-ups some of you guys, just the bread-and-butter, but it's replaced all my remotes, is easy to add functions that it missed, and even my wife can figure it out. Sorry, but this thing is a homerun in my book.

I agree 100%

[RunnerFL]

If it works for you guys that's great... But this remote more certainly doesn't live up to the hype it had at all. And their support? I won't even go there.

Glad to hear it's working out for someone at least.

[RunnerFL]

I sure hope they fix the firmware so it can do multiple RF receivers. That would be so very cool.


Based on the email I got from AR's Tech Support you should be able to suggest that to your friends at DirecTV. ;)

[mdavej]

Just got a great deal on a Color off ebay. Will report back when I have it in hand. It should work fine for me. I'm very comfortable with the way UEI remotes work. And I've only got a dozen devices or so including just one DVR in the same room and don't need RF. Coming from harmony, I'm used to terrible config software and clueless tech support ;)

From Runner's posts and my own dealings with AR support already, I realize I'm on my own.

[gully_foyle]

So whats the difference between the Xsights and these remotes? (http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/09/13/universal-electronics-intros-the-new-nevo-c2-and-c3-remotes/) Just the name?Just the name and marketer. I think those are just the Euro version imported.

[gully_foyle]

I sure hope they fix the firmware so it can do multiple RF receivers. That would be so very cool.

Cheers,
Tom
Tom, I very much doubt it is the firmware at fault. Much more likely it is the horrid web site not allowing multiple codes to be set up. I have yet to see anything that indicates the FIRMWARE is faulty -- seems rock-solid for anything I can get the %&$#%%$ web interface to allow.

[mdavej]

I finally got an Xsight Color (no touchscreen, no RF). Bottom line is it's a great remote, but hampered by terrible software. With a lot of time, effort and planning you can get it working pretty well. It's still buggy (the config software, not the remote itself) and there are lots of things that don't make sense. For the same money, I'd stick with harmony, no question. But if you can find a deal, it's worth a try. If they improve their config software, it could really give harmony a run for it's money, but I'm not holding my breath. If you've got a fairly simple system and don't plan on doing much customization, you might like it.

All that being said, if anyone wants a really good deal on mine, PM me.

[RunnerFL]

So 13 days later I get a response, sort of, from AR to my question as to why I'd contact DirecTV to get the RF working on the AR remote:

Discussion Thread
---------------------------------------------------------------
Response (Lawrence Perry) - 09/28/2009 03:47 PM
Hi Chris,

I am following up to see if this was every resolved for you. I read the previous note and I apologize that you were directed to contact Direct TV regarding the RF issue. Did you purchase the ARRE433B RF Extender along with your remote control?

Regards,

Lawrence
Customer Service

Customer (Chris XXXXX) - 09/15/2009 09:32 PM
Now why in the world would I contact DirecTV for support on YOUR remote???

Oh, and according to the auto response I got from you I was supposed to get a response "within 72 hours"... 2 weeks later and this is what I get???

-------------------------------------------------

Seriously??? Why would I need to buy the RF extender to get the BUILT IN RF working???

Not only does their software suck but their support is MUCH MUCH worse... I'm REALLY glad I took the remote back now and I will never buy another AR product.