frustrated: looking for quality installer in Phoenix area

[DesertWind53]

Sigh.

Here's my situation.. 5-year subscriber with old AT-9 pole-mounted on the side of (next to) my house. Just went from (3) H20's to 2 + an HR23 in place of one of the H20's. I bought it myself from Amazon (because I had a credit there I wanted to burn) rather than having DTV provide it.

Today they send out an installer to bring in a second connection for the new H23. The only way the guy would do it was to run coax up the side of my house and into the attic, next to where the dish is located. There's already one line on the side of the house that I don't want there, NFW I want a second one. The rest of the 4 lines run underground against the side of the house into a service box, where an ugly morass of splitters and connections reside.

I sent the guy away as I want this done as an SWM setup. His boss dropped by after his visit, surveyed the scene, and suggested that I tell DTV that my dish is "broken" and that the only way to get the 2nd line in the house is via SWM, and since I'm on the service plan, they'll have no problem replacing the dish, then I just have to manage to persuade them on the SWM issue. I had incorrectly ASSumed that this was what they were going to do after seeing that my work order (viewed online through my DTV account) showed that a new dish was being included. But when the installer arrived, no dish on his work order, and he even had a new DVR with him, which wasn't needed.

The problem with (trying to) talk DTV CSR into an SWM install is that I wind up with the same subcontractor coming out again, and they scare the crap out of me. The boss was adamant that the AT-9 wasn't SWM-compatible (wrong!) and that a new Slimline dish would be required (probably a better way to do it, but I digress). These guys are a bunch of hacks.. I'd rather pay someone and get everything cleaned up and done right, and not worry about splitters and connections all over hell, etc.

Any advice would be appreciated. Mainly I'm looking for an indy installer in the Phoenix area to rescue me. I don't mind paying, but I expect quality work in return.. something I can't count on from a DTV contractor here, in my experience (and I've had a slew of bad experiences over the years).

[harsh]

You do not meet the requirements for an SWM install.

If you want SWM, you're going to have to buy the necessary equipment on your own.

[CoramDeo]

After my H20-600 started into it's death throes last year, and after an extremely frustrating round with D* refusing to just send me an HDDVR for $199 and self-installation ("professional installation" is required along with a 6-week waiting list), I just turned to ebay and bought another H20-600 and a new Slimline with SWM. I already have an Accutrac 22 Pro meter, so the setup was very simple. I didn't have to deal with the "professional installation" and got SWM in the deal, which is (MUCH) nicer having just one line from the Slimline to the house. I know it's always "buyer beware" on ebay, but frankly that's where I've purchased nearly all of my equipment with great success.

[DesertWind53]

I'm aware that I technically don't qualify for an SWM install. Again, I'm willing to pay a local contractor to do the work, and pay for the equipment myself. I'm mainly looking for a referral to an installer in the Phoenix area. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

[iotp]

I've had "mixed" results with Ironwood. They've been out a couple of times, when it would appear I had problems with my cabling. I had a rat, or some creature chew through the cables that run along the base of my house.

After several attempts to cut, crimp, and barrel connect. The last guy out ran ALL NEW cables from my dish to my multiswitch. All my problems went away.

Its a crap shoot. The installers are getting better, hit or miss, I feel your pain.

[BattleZone]

Ironwood was DirecTV's HSP in Phoenix, and they were bought out by DirecTV a year ago, so they are no longer independent by any definition.

To the OP: look in your local phone book for DirecTV retailers, and if you can't find one, look for Home Theater places that do satellite work.

[Shades228]

I'm aware that I technically don't qualify for an SWM install. Again, I'm willing to pay a local contractor to do the work, and pay for the equipment myself. I'm mainly looking for a referral to an installer in the Phoenix area. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/findRetailer.jsp?assetId=1400028

Ignore the big box store names.

[DesertWind53]

Ignore the big box store names.

Slim pickin's after weeding out the Walmarts & BB's. I fired off a couple of emails to locals to see if they have any experience with SWM installs, we'll see what happens. What I'm REALLY hoping to find is someone here at dbstalk who either IS a tech themselves, or someone who has had direct experience with one they can recommend after a positive experience.

[avmaster]

I sent you a pm, i actually live in Gilbert and im a former direct tv tech, and i just so happen to have some equipment left over.

There is a problem however, H20's are not SWM compatible recievers. H21's or newer are. Let me know and we can discuss some options.

[DesertWind53]

There is a problem however, H20's are not SWM compatible recievers. H21's or newer are. Let me know and we can discuss some options.

According to swm8.com, H20's are OK...

What are the requirements for using a SWM8?

There are two basic requirements: (1) you need a compatible dish, and (2) you need SWM-compatible receivers.

The only SWM-compatible dish is the 5LNB dish (both slimline, and regular, both AT9 and AU9) from DIRECTV. The following is a list of SWM-compatible receivers:

HR20-100 through HR20-700
HR21-100 through HR21-700
HR22-100 through HR22-700
H20-100 through H20-700
H21-100 through H21-700
H22-100 through H22-700
H23-100 through H23-700
R16-100 through R16-700
R22-100 through R22-700
R23-100 through R23-700
D12-100 through D12-700
D13-100 through D13-100

I have found a local installer with a lot of SWiM experience, and he was in agreement that my H20's are fine. He's installing at 8:30am in the morning. I'll report back on how things go, perhaps with a few pics if the install is purty. :)

[avmaster]

hmm, they must have updated the firmware then. When i was working i was always told the older hd boxes(h20) were not swm compatible.

[DesertWind53]

Well, the deed is done, and I'm a happy camper. The first 4 attached pictures are what I started off with.. AT9 on a pole in the ground, wires running along side the house into the box, and a single wire running up the house into the attic, for a 3rd tuner line I'd had added after the original install.

The last 2 shots are the new Slimline SWiM dish on the roof, the single line heading directly into the attic right at the dish (awesome, no more wires anywhere along the outside of the house), and a closeup of the mount job. My only slight concern is those screws that are exposed a long way before going into the eve of the house. But I'm assured they're well-set into the (whatever that beam is called).

Inside, the power injector is in my den, out of the way. My 2 H20 receivers were indeed compatible with SWiM, but required a download that shows new info on the Info & Test screen - SWM Firmware version (now 2.0.20) and SWM Library version (2.0.14). I *think* this downloaded when he did a forced download, though the main version is still 0x4104, showing updated on 12/17/08. The BBCs were removed from the 2 H20's, the setup of the HR23 was adjusted to enable the second tuner, and the new dish was auto-detected and already showing correctly in setup. Everything works like a champ, and is 100x cleaner than before. The outside box with all the wires coming out of it now has nothing coming out, and the only remaining connection inside is for my Cox cable connection, used for my internet connection. The multiswitch is in the attic (not sure exactly what he used, not itemized on the invoice). Total cost for all hardware was $200, + 2 hours labor @ $90 per. Too steep? Not cheap, but I feel I got what I paid for. Now I'm ready for the NFL this weekend. :D

[bixler]

yeah those screws would concern me too but everything else looks clean. Hope it works out for you

[RobertE]

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19648&d=1252610530

Thats just sad. I'm sorry you paid any money for that. I can't count the number of ways that will fail a QC, but let's touch on a few.

The foot of the mast, using the lags as spacers, instead of actually attaching it to the house. :nono: FAIL. The mast requires 6 lags, or its a fail.

Monopoles. Only one lag each. :nono: FAIL.

I'm not seeing a green ground screw on there. :nono: FAIL.

With no ground screw, I'm not seeing a ground wire or messenger wire. :nono: FAIL.

I'll stop there for now.

[David MacLeod]

those lags are going to split the wood soon.
unbelievable.

[DesertWind53]

D'OH!!!

I'll get hold of the head kaboozle and get this stuff addressed. Thanks Robert!

[TheRatPatrol]

D'OH!!!

I'll get hold of the head kaboozle and get this stuff addressed. Thanks Robert!
Who did the install, D* or someone local?

He should have used one of these (http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=02&p=SLMTUE&d=SlimLine-SLMTUE-Under-Eave-Mount-W-Braces--2-Different-Hardware-Packs) instead.

[wildbill129]

That mount is a problem. With some blocking you might be able to correct it. If it was my tile roof, I would get one of these:

http://www.solidsignal.tv/prod_display.asp?PROD=KAUEM1&xzoom=Large-3#xview

As far as the ground goes....(wait for the ground police to show up) technically, you will need a ground outside, to the the house bond. I, like you, don't want an ugly wire running down the wall of my house. I grounded mine inside.

[DesertWind53]

The installer called me back after I emailed him the close-up picture and quoted some of the concerns expressed here. He was indignant that everything is "fine". He said "nobody" installs grounds any more, that they really aren't necessary as they aren't going to do anything if you're hit by lightning anyways. He defended the mounting technique, and use of single bolts on the monopoles. Even though he could tell I was clearly not taking much (any) comfort in his replies, he was still happy to finish the call with his explanations and go on his merry way.

Tomorrow I'll contact the owner of the business and ask that these issues be rectified, including the under-eve mount (thanks for the link, WB), which is obviously what should have been used in the first place.

Thanks all.. the dbstalk community is the best!

[David MacLeod]

if paid by check I'd stop payment on it until this is fixed.

[BattleZone]

While I realize you used an independent contractor who isn't bound to DirecTV's rules, DirecTV has prohibited the install of Slimline dishes on eave/fascia boards. Given the construction there, I'd have left the dish on the pole mount.

In addition to the *serious* problems that Robert mentioned, there's also the issue that metal staples are not to be used for coax AT ALL, EVER.

I too hate to give you the bad news, but this job isn't even close to being acceptable. IMO, it either needs to be on an under-eave mount (an additional cost), or back on the pole mount. The under-eave mount needs 2 support arms (the ones currently being used are fine, but 2 bolts each). And the line needs to be re-run with no staples and with a ground block and grounding line.

If the company you hired doesn't resolve this for you, you should let us know who it was.

[DesertWind53]

Heard back from the installer today. It will be fixed next week, with proper mount (thanks Wild Bill & Rat Patrol for the links), and proper grounding, which he still feels is "overrated for Arizona".

Thanks for everyone's input. This has been a painful process, but in the end, I'll be left with a kickass SWiM setup (everything else other than the dish mounting is already top shelf).

Hey, here's a related question.. I have DTV's "protection plan". Since my install has been gutted and redone, is it safe to assume that they won't touch a thing now under the plan, since my setup won't agree at all with what they have recorded? And as such should I just go ahead and drop the plan, since it would (seem to) be useless under the circumstances?

[RobertE]

Heard back from the installer today. It will be fixed next week, with proper mount (thanks Wild Bill & Rat Patrol for the links), and proper grounding, which he still feels is "overrated for Arizona".

Thanks for everyone's input. This has been a painful process, but in the end, I'll be left with a kickass SWiM setup (everything else other than the dish mounting is already top shelf).

Hey, here's a related question.. I have DTV's "protection plan". Since my install has been gutted and redone, is it safe to assume that they won't touch a thing now under the plan, since my setup won't agree at all with what they have recorded? And as such should I just go ahead and drop the plan, since it would (seem to) be useless under the circumstances?

Ah the good old grounding debate. Bottom line, there is very, very little one can do in a residential enviroment to protect your dish from a direct lightning strike. The only thing that will save you is good home owners insurance and lots of positive karma. Grounding the dish has next to nothing to do with lightning protection.

The protection plan will still cover your reconfigured setup.

[DesertWind53]

Ah the good old grounding debate. Bottom line, there is very, very little one can do in a residential enviroment to protect your dish from a direct lightning strike. The only thing that will save you is good home owners insurance and lots of positive karma. Grounding the dish has next to nothing to do with lightning protection.

While that's understandable in a "direct hit" situation, what about for any other reason? How "necessary" is the ground? The installer is adamant that it's "overrated". Obviously, D* requires it for some reason their engineers deem requires it. I'm interested to hear what others think.

[Shades228]

While that's understandable in a "direct hit" situation, what about for any other reason? How "necessary" is the ground? The installer is adamant that it's "overrated". Obviously, D* requires it for some reason their engineers deem requires it. I'm interested to hear what others think.

Grounding is there to remove static electricity buildup only from the DBS perspective. This can lead to service loss.

[David MacLeod]

many insurance companies (not saying yours does) also require items like this to be grounded as a condition of coverage. Directv requires it, no matter his feelings on it the ground should have been installed.

[HDTVsportsfan]

While that's understandable in a "direct hit" situation, what about for any other reason? How "necessary" is the ground? The installer is adamant that it's "overrated". Obviously, D* requires it for some reason their engineers deem requires it. I'm interested to hear what others think.

Grounding is a NEC requirement. Do a search for grounding in this forum and you will find alot of good threads and posts about proper grounding.

[randyk47]

Grounding notwithstanding, and mine is grounded by the way, this has got to be one of the worse installs I've ever seen. :eek2: The sloped fascia certainly is a challenge and a home-made block would have taken some engineering but it could have been done. The commercial solution offered above is a great answer in this situation. Still shaking my head.... :nono2:

[PlainBill]

There are two reasons for having a good ground on the dish. Agreed, it won't provide protection in case of a direct lightning strike.

1. It MAY protect the equipment in case of a nearby lightning strike.
2. It WILL protect the installer in case of any wiring error in the house energizing the coax.

PlainBill

[dsw2112]

Is there any reason you didn't stick with a pole mount (like you had previously?) Personally I wouldn't let the installer touch my house again after seeing that install. :nono:

I'd ask for a different tech and a supervisor to remedy this one, and I'd really consider having the new dish moved to the pole... You most certainly did not get what you paid for IMO...

[DesertWind53]

Is there any reason you didn't stick with a pole mount (like you had previously?) Personally I wouldn't let the installer touch my house again after seeing that install. :nono:


I didn't like the look of the pole-mounted dish in my front yard, and my previous dish had been installed in the same place on the eave, and was pretty non-intrusive there. Not knowing any better (that the Slimline is no longer allowed to be mounted as such - why exactly is that?) this is what I requested. These guys have been in business since '95, and came very highly recommended. Obviously I was misled. They are locating a J-mount for me now and will be remounting, adding proper ground, and I will bitch about the metal staples holding the coax down. Speaking of which, why is that a no-no? Is there a detailed list of the do's and don'ts available someplace?

[RobertE]

I didn't like the look of the pole-mounted dish in my front yard, and my previous dish had been installed in the same place on the eave, and was pretty non-intrusive there. Not knowing any better (that the Slimline is no longer allowed to be mounted as such - why exactly is that?) this is what I requested. These guys have been in business since '95, and came very highly recommended. Obviously I was misled. They are locating a J-mount for me now and will be remounting, adding proper ground, and I will bitch about the metal staples holding the coax down. Speaking of which, why is that a no-no? Is there a detailed list of the do's and don'ts available someplace?

Few issues with the staples. A poorly place one can pierce the jacket letting in water and possibly shorting out the cable. May work fine with catv, maybe sat for a while, until one day *poof*. A real PITA to track down. Depending on the staple used, it can also crush the cable, distorting the roundness of the dielectric. It's said that, that it can cause RF reflections and other technobable issues.

[DesertWind53]

UPDATE: Dish is now properly mounted and grounded. I hope! J-mount, proper double-lag bolts everywhere, steel staples removed from coax, and proper grounding. I'm left with some extra holes in the eave of the house from the hacked install, but there were already some up there and it's in an area that doesn't really show, so it's no big deal. I had to pay for the J-mount hardware but no additional labor (of course). Thanks to all of you who critiqued the original job.

[David MacLeod]

I'm not an installer, so take this with grain of salt, but that looks pretty good to me. lot better than originals :)

[RobertE]

UPDATE: Dish is now properly mounted and grounded. I hope! J-mount, proper double-lag bolts everywhere, steel staples removed from coax, and proper grounding. I'm left with some extra holes in the eave of the house from the hacked install, but there were already some up there and it's in an area that doesn't really show, so it's no big deal. I had to pay for the J-mount hardware but no additional labor (of course). Thanks to all of you who critiqued the original job.

1000x better. Nice, neat and sturdy. :)

[avmaster]

Man, see ya should have had me do it:)

Not to be nitpicky or discouraging, but thats not even a ka/ku under eave mount, thats the smaller one used for 18" dishes, looks like they modified it to work, but still......the correct one is a 2" diameter

[DesertWind53]

Man, see ya should have had me do it:)

Not to be nitpicky or discouraging, but thats not even a ka/ku under eave mount, thats the smaller one used for 18" dishes, looks like they modified it to work, but still......the correct one is a 2" diameter

<<<sigh>>>

No wonder he said he needed an "adapter" to use this mount.. I couldn't figure out why, from the J-mount links provided earlier in this thread, I could see that they were 2" and should work no prob.

Now that I've been through this hell, I've been looking at other dishes in the neighborhood and how they're mounted. Almost all are poor.. lots of similar mounts to my original situation, i.e. mounted on the eave but not making full contact, etc.

If I need anything done in the future, I WILL call you!

[AZsatTech]

I am a DirecTV dealer that can sell and install SWM equipment for you. Feel free to contact me, and discuss your install in detail.

[AZsatTech]

UPDATE: Dish is now properly mounted and grounded. I hope! J-mount, proper double-lag bolts everywhere, steel staples removed from coax, and proper grounding. I'm left with some extra holes in the eave of the house from the hacked install, but there were already some up there and it's in an area that doesn't really show, so it's no big deal. I had to pay for the J-mount hardware but no additional labor (of course). Thanks to all of you who critiqued the original job.

That is not an approved DirecTV mount, and wasn't installed correctly. The monopoles are required to be mounted to studs, not the facia. This install would not pass a QA check. Sorry for the bad news.

[DesertWind53]

That is not an approved DirecTV mount, and wasn't installed correctly. The monopoles are required to be mounted to studs, not the facia. This install would not pass a QA check. Sorry for the bad news.

:mad:

This entire experience makes me wonder - just how many installs WOULD pass their rigorous standards? I did a short walk around the neighborhood, and there are all kinds of shady looking dish installs, several just like how mine was in the first place, with the standard mount not flush or not connected at both ends.

Can anyone else chime in on the final state of my install? Should I be concerned that I'll have problems with it? It appears to be solid as hell to me, but what do I know? What a nightmare this entire fiasco has been.

[Simmerman]

Yes it could fail a QC but it looks fine in my opinion. Been doing this for over three years and i have seen plenty of installs that would fail a QC but still get the job done AND are rock solid.

Rest easy.

[avmaster]

doesn't matter if it would pass a Q/C or not, some of what they Q/C about is stupid and its more about money extraction from the techs than it has to do with actual quality, as long as the dish is solid, connectors are done properly etc it will be fine.

Just wish i could have saved u some headache but oh well:) if you have issues in the future let me know

[taz291819]

doesn't matter if it would pass a Q/C or not, some of what they Q/C about is stupid and its more about money extraction from the techs than it has to do with actual quality, as long as the dish is solid, connectors are done properly etc it will be fine.

Just wish i could have saved u some headache but oh well:) if you have issues in the future let me know

Agreed. And he hired an independent contractor, they go by their own rules.

I installed mine myself, would never pass QC (mounted to a wood post), but what's Directv going to do, not give me service?

[AZsatTech]

I can only speak for myself, but myself, and my installer do 100% quality jobs, 100% of the time. We are a dealer, and do installs for other dealers, because they don't like the quality, or lack of, that the local HSPs provide. We install in track homes, all the way up to multi million dollar custom homes.

I to see a lot of sub-par installs when out and about, I also know most of the installers that have performed such installs, are black flagged by DTV, and can no longer perform installs for any HSP.