Problem with Dish system.

[ckbrown]

09.09.16

Guys,


My boss is having the strangest problem with his Dish Net. system.
I wired his house when it was being built and used the standard barrel
connectors to make patch panels and wall plate connections. There
were no spliced wires using barrels, all unbroken RG-6 cable. All this
was done 12 years ago.

The system consists of (2) 625 recievers, one of which feeds the tv in
the living room, a Sony KDL-46W4150. The second feeds a smaller flat
screen in a adjoining bedroom. The second also feeds a larger analog
tv in the master bedroom. The master bedroom is backfed the video
signal by patch bay connection and controlled by the wireless remote.

A week ago the reciever in the second bedroom went out. Dish Net. was
called and a service guy came out to see what was wrong. I was not there
to observe the following 5 days of work but I have been told that the
technician ordered a new reciever and it did not work. The technician
then replaced the older superdish with the newer HD dish. It still did
not work. Then the technician ordered a second reciever and it did not
work. The technician then checked the coax connections and found a
burned barrel connector in the attic space where the sat. wires come
from the dish and are connected to the house wiring. At that time he
found them to be the older white barrel connectors. He replaced all of
the barrel connectors with the newer blue barrel connectors. This
corrected the problem with the second reciever.

However, a new problem showed up. prior to the repair of the house
wiring, the screen images were clear and undistorted. Now that the
above described modifactions and repairs were made the screen images are
not clear and are distorted. On both flatscreen tv the pictures are not
clear. There is a unfocused area around moving images like when a face
talks or when a horse walks the legs are hazy. There is also a "smeared"
halo around text displayed on the screen. Now both televisions have been
tested using DVD video from playbacks of movies and the images are clear
and sharp.

I did watch the technician adjust several settings in the 625 with little
,if any, improvement in the screen image.


09.09.17
UPDATE

This date I went to my boss's house and checked that all of the connectors
were at least fingertight on their fitting. I checked that all feed and
interconnect wires were tight on the back of the wallplates. Several
connections required more than a 1/2 turn to tighten them. I then checked
all of the interconnect wires and connectiontion in the attic spaces. All
of the wires looked to be in good condition. Serveral of the wire connectors
had to be blown out to remove misc. metallic debris. Several connections
required more than a 1/2 turn to tighten them. The state of the television
images were then rechecked. They had not improved, in fact the television
image in the second room had gotten slightly worse.

I then bought a new piece of RG6/u and 2 end connectors as well as a barrel
connector. I then disconnected the wire from the house to the main room dish LNB. I connected the new wire to the LNB by the barrel connector. I then connected the new wire to the 625 reciever in the main room. The state of the television image in the main room was then rechecked. It had not improved at all. Next, I disconnected the wire from the house to the second room dish LNB. I connected the new wire to the LNB by the barrel connector. I then connected the new wire to the 625 reciever in the second room. The state of the television image in the second room was then rechecked. It had not improved at all. It had gotten slightly worse.

I reconnected all the orginal feed wires back to the 625 recievers that they
were connected to. I cleaned up the work site and stored the test wire at the
site.

Please advise us on any solution that you might have. I am thanking you in
advance for your assistance.

ckbrown

[BattleScott]

I think you're mixing Dish and DirecTV stuff here. Aren't 625s Dish receivers?

Anyway, I would first check the resolutions on the recievers. Many times installers just pop them in and don't bother setting them up correctly.

[timmmaaayyy2003]

From what little I know, if the signal to the receivers was bad, there would be no picture or an error message regardless of DTV or Dish. Generally, if there is image distortion other than pixelization, the problem is at/after the receiver.

[jeffshoaf]

Check the connections between the receivers and the TVs. If you're using analog connections (RF, component, composit, etc.), oxidation on the connectors and/or bad cables/connectors can cause color issues and picture distortion.

[ckbrown]

BattleScott, You are correct sir.

In regards your message, the reciever in the main room has been in place for at least 4 years, that is farthest back that I can recall seeing it in the main room. Before the modifications and repairs, both sets were clear and un-pixilated. The only changes to the set in the main room has been on the satellite side.

Thanks for your input and hope that this helps.

Also, would it be ok to post this on the dish net. side with out angering the double poster guards?

Thanks

[ckbrown]

From what little I know, if the signal to the receivers was bad, there would be no picture or an error message regardless of DTV or Dish. Generally, if there is image distortion other than pixelization, the problem is at/after the receiver.

Timmmaaayyy,
I understand your position but please see the message above. Also, the second reciever was new, the cable ends were remade with new connectors by the Dish installer and the interconnect wiring connectors were all new.

Thanks for your assistance.

[ckbrown]

Check the connections between the receivers and the TVs. If you're using analog connections (RF, component, composit, etc.), oxidation on the connectors and/or bad cables/connectors can cause color issues and picture distortion.

jeff,

Thanks for your assistance, I also agree with your position. However, if you missed the update section, I checked all of the wiring from the dish down feed to the back of the television unit. I removed all of the connections and checked for corrosion or deformation of the wiring. Please note that I installed a new piece of wire from the back of the reciever satellite splitter to the wire up to the LNB. The picture did not change at all. Very confused.

[boba]

Which system does your boss have? You have asked the question in both D* and E* forums just changing which system he has.

[cnmsales]

What rez is the TV? I would check this and set the box to handle just that resolution and check if native is on or off.

[swillotter]

first of all, are you using cable rg6 from the receiver to the hd tvs? if so you should really try using at least composite cable (red, yellow, white). i am not sure if your receivers are hd or not if so they should definately be using eather component (red, blue, green) cables or hdmi. standard definition receivers generally provide poor picture quality on hd tv's because some tv's processor speeds do not match up or something like that not quite sure of the technicalities of this.

[ckbrown]

What rez is the TV? I would check this and set the box to handle just that resolution and check if native is on or off.

cnmsales,

I watched the Dish Net guys go through the resolution settings. I believe that the native select was set on and off. I think it was left on.

Thanks for the help.

[ckbrown]

first of all, are you using cable rg6 from the receiver to the hd tvs? if so you should really try using at least composite cable (red, yellow, white). i am not sure if your receivers are hd or not if so they should definately be using eather component (red, blue, green) cables or hdmi. standard definition receivers generally provide poor picture quality on hd tv's because some tv's processor speeds do not match up or something like that not quite sure of the technicalities of this.

swillotter,

I watched the Dish TV guy add a component cable set to the second bedroom television and select video 2 input. When the screen came back on it looked the same to me. It must have looked the same to the installer as he changed it back and forth between the coax and the video. He then removed the component cable and tried it on the second reciever. with the same results.

Thanks for the info, please keep trying.

[ckbrown]

boba,

Sorry for being a true noob, I had put Directv in the provider areas. But the recievers were 625 which made the provider dish network. So I goofed and I apologize. Please don't smite me. Any help from any area is recieved with the greatest thanks.

[BattleScott]

BattleScott, You are correct sir. I did go on what I was told and asked my bosses wife to review the first part of the message that I left, she said that it was accurate. Oh, well.

In regards your message, the reciever in the main room has been in place for at least 4 years, that is farthest back that I can recall seeing it in the main room. Before the modifications and repairs, both sets were clear and un-pixilated. The only changes to the set in the main room has been on the satellite side.

Thanks for your input and hope that this helps.

Also, would it be ok to post this on the dish net. side with out angering the double poster guards?

Thanks

My bad. They way I read it, I assumed that the receiver had been replaced. Thought maybe they just didn't enable the HD resolutions.

Don't think anyone would object to reposting in the Dish side and you'll probably get a lot more accurate help.

[cnmsales]

Honestly, I would take the time to rerun all the cables couplers and wall mounts. You also can always switch to Directv. New customers get a great deal.

[Tom Robertson]

Moved the thread to a Dish Forum for better assistance.

Cheers,
Tom

[Jason Nipp]

The 625 is not an HD capable receiver.

Perhaps you mean ViP622?

[ckbrown]

Jason Nipp

That is something that I have little knowledge of. Does the type of reciever feeding a hd television effect the television. OH, I left out the television model: It is a Sony KDL-46W4150. According to the web, this is a HD television. How would having a hd television connected to a nonHD reciever affect the images on the screen. Also, I state that the images on the screens were clear and not pixalated up to the repair and modification work. After the work, the images are very poor and very pixalated. For example, during a DIY show there was a sceen where the persons were working in a backyard. The camera was on a person and his face was fairly clear but the green growth behind him along the wood fence was just a green blob. No detail. Later a closeup of a small pool of water was shown. It was totally blured out. You had a brownish looking blob surrounded by a greenish fringe. I saw this myself.

Thank all of you for your continuded assistance.
Also, if the post needs to move please do so and I will locate it again.

Thank you Tom for moving the post, I just did not notice the new location.

[scoobyxj]

The Dish Network 625 receiver is not a HD receiver there is no resolution setting that can be changed. The white barrel connectors that the tech swapped out for the blue ones are not SAT rated (IE they will burn up eventually with 18v running through them) the blue ones are. This thread is kind of hard to follow, but from what I think I'm gathering is the TVs at the receiver locations seem to not look as good as before the tech come out, and that those TVs are HDTVs. Few HDTVs look good displaying SD signals. The best connection you can get from a 625 is SVideo on TV1, and Composite on TV2. As far as what you tried with running a cable to the dish from the receiver would make no difference in the video quality. The video drivers are in the receivers themselves and the signal between the LNB and the receiver is not even close to a video signal. Now if the picture is freezing up, or the whole screen pixelates then that could be a bad fitting somewhere. I would also check the signal strengths, and make sure they are above the min thresholds.

[tech1018]

make sure the dish is not mounted in a location where it could be affected by a magnetic field of some sort. the problem is between the ground block and the dish especially when all the tvs are affected. make sure the dish is not pointing toward power lines,check connections at the lnb, and the dish should not be mounted real close to where the power comes to the home. with problems like this you have to step back,take a deep breath,then just take it back to basics. good luck

[tech1018]

make sure the dish is not mounted in a location where it could be affected by a magnetic field of some sort. the problem is between the ground block and the dish especially when all the tvs are affected. make sure the dish is not pointing toward power lines,check connections at the lnb, and the dish should not be mounted real close to where the power comes to the home. with problems like this you have to step back,take a deep breath,then just take it back to basics. good luck

:hair::hair::icon_hroc

[ckbrown]

The Dish Network 625 receiver is not a HD receiver there is no resolution setting that can be changed. The white barrel connectors that the tech swapped out for the blue ones are not SAT rated (IE they will burn up eventually with 18v running through them) the blue ones are. This thread is kind of hard to follow, but from what I think I'm gathering is the TVs at the receiver locations seem to not look as good as before the tech come out, and that those TVs are HDTVs. Few HDTVs look good displaying SD signals. The best connection you can get from a 625 is SVideo on TV1, and Composite on TV2. As far as what you tried with running a cable to the dish from the receiver would make no difference in the video quality. The video drivers are in the receivers themselves and the signal between the LNB and the receiver is not even close to a video signal. Now if the picture is freezing up, or the whole screen pixelates then that could be a bad fitting somewhere. I would also check the signal strengths, and make sure they are above the min thresholds.


Thanks for the info scoobyxj. We checked the tv out and found that the unit was connected by the s-video as well as composite component connection. I unplugged the s-video and the video did not change. I reinstalled the s-video. I then unplugged the composite video and the video screen did not change. I also pulled all of the all of the plugs on bothe ends and checked the connection surfaces. They looked clean and shiny.

Where do we check the signal strengths and what are the min. thresholds to look for.

<This thread is kind of hard to follow, but from what I think I'm gathering is the TVs at the receiver locations seem to not look as good as before the tech come out, and that those TVs are HDTVs. Few HDTVs look good displaying SD signals. > In reference to the above. The system has been in operation for at least four(4) years and had a much better picture than it has now. The problem occured after the system was worked on as you said. Could having a Superdish attached to the system instead of the HD dish give a better picture?

Thanks.

[ckbrown]

make sure the dish is not mounted in a location where it could be affected by a magnetic field of some sort. the problem is between the ground block and the dish especially when all the tvs are affected. make sure the dish is not pointing toward power lines,check connections at the lnb, and the dish should not be mounted real close to where the power comes to the home. with problems like this you have to step back,take a deep breath,then just take it back to basics. good luck

Well the dish is located where it has been for in excess of four(4) years that I am certain of. The system did not have the distorted video that it has now. The problem did occur after the system was repaired and modified. I also can tell everyone that the building south side has a un-obstructed south view and sits about 300 feet off of a road. There is full los to the se-s-sw sky.
Thanks

[BattleZone]

*Unless this is a ground-loop issue*, which it could be, the problem is going to be limited to the receivers, the TVs, and the connections between the two. Due to the way satellite works, you don't get the kinds of picture distortion as a result of "bad" signals from the dish to the receivers.

But since the dish was replaced, there's a good chance that the installer grounded the new dish (required by code), while it's very likely that the old dish was never grounded. Grounding is a good thing, EXCEPT if there is a ground problem in the house. These are usually difficult to find, but is usually caused by having part of the power system grounded to something other than the main house ground. That sets up a difference in electrical potential between the two ground points and causes electricity to flow where it isn't supposed to go.

As an experiment, you can try disconnecting the satellite lines from the receiver, and see if the picture clears up (go into the menu before doing this; the menu is generated by the receiver itself). If it does, then likely the problem is a ground loop, and you'd need an electrician to fix it.

If that's not it, then you can confine your search to the connections between the TVs and the receivers. If I suspect a TV problem, the first thing I do is plug another device (DVD player, etc.) into the same input connections on the TV, to see if other devices show the same problem.

[ckbrown]

*Unless this is a ground-loop issue*, which it could be, the problem is going to be limited to the receivers, the TVs, and the connections between the two. Due to the way satellite works, you don't get the kinds of picture distortion as a result of "bad" signals from the dish to the receivers.

But since the dish was replaced, there's a good chance that the installer grounded the new dish (required by code), while it's very likely that the old dish was never grounded. Grounding is a good thing, EXCEPT if there is a ground problem in the house. These are usually difficult to find, but is usually caused by having part of the power system grounded to something other than the main house ground. That sets up a difference in electrical potential between the two ground points and causes electricity to flow where it isn't supposed to go.

As an experiment, you can try disconnecting the satellite lines from the receiver, and see if the picture clears up (go into the menu before doing this; the menu is generated by the receiver itself). If it does, then likely the problem is a ground loop, and you'd need an electrician to fix it.

If that's not it, then you can confine your search to the connections between the TVs and the receivers. If I suspect a TV problem, the first thing I do is plug another device (DVD player, etc.) into the same input connections on the TV, to see if other devices show the same problem.

BattleZone

Thanks for the information BattleZone. I can confirm that the LNB coaxs' wiring was connected to a grounding feedthrough block. And the block was grounded. We did take the ground loose and isolate it from the block with no change in the picture.

We appreciate all the help you guys are giving us.

I can not shake the feelong that since the problem cropped up during the service work to the system that it is related to something done during the service call. I wonder if there could have been a misadjustment in the TV set somewhere that is causing this. The set is a flat screen Sony KDL46W4150 with the following address for the operations manual here:

http://www.manualnguide.com/manual-get/18214/
The manual indicates in the picture settings there are adjustments for :
Sharpness, Noise reduction, MPEG Noise Reduction, Motion Enhancer and CineMotion. The manual further indicates in the screen settings there are adjustments for :
Wide Mode, Auto Wide, 4:3 Default and Display Area.

I have a little idea of what these are for but would appreciate if you guys would advise me how these settings operate and could they cause the pixellating of the detail on the screen.

In a like question is there a setting to change the output type or ratio or something like that in the D* 625 reciever ? Also, how do we check the alignment of the dish and what satellites should the dish be pointing at?

Sorry for all the bother but as a true newbie I really appreciate all your assistance.
ckbrown

[Grampa67]

My picture was breaking up around the motion areas. I was told to swap the cables at the lnb and I found the connecters were finger tight. Tighting corrected the problem. Try swapping the cables at the lnb.

[davejacobson]

As has been mentioned the dish and cable from the dish to the receiver has no effect on picture quality. Unless your getting signal dropouts and pixilization. So that being said stop chasing around the dish and coax. Reciever problem possible but not likely. Connection from the receiver to the tv problem possible but not likely. Your symptom described sounds like a resolution problem with large things in the picture ok but background fuzzy. Without looking at the pix I would say it sounds like the usual standard def pix on a HD tv. As a service person I can tell you that after a repair a lot of customers look at their equipment with a fine tooth comb and find what they think is a problem not realizing that what they see is normal. Are you sure the pix is worse than before?

[ckbrown]

As has been mentioned the dish and cable from the dish to the receiver has no effect on picture quality. Unless your getting signal dropouts and pixilization. So that being said stop chasing around the dish and coax. Reciever problem possible but not likely. Connection from the receiver to the tv problem possible but not likely. Your symptom described sounds like a resolution problem with large things in the picture ok but background fuzzy. Without looking at the pix I would say it sounds like the usual standard def pix on a HD tv. As a service person I can tell you that after a repair a lot of customers look at their equipment with a fine tooth comb and find what they think is a problem not realizing that what they see is normal. Are you sure the pix is worse than before?

Davejacobson

Thank you for your post. I can only answer this <As a service person I can tell you that after a repair a lot of customers look at their equipment with a fine tooth comb and find what they think is a problem not realizing that what they see is normal. Are you sure the pix is worse than before?>
By saying that I had seen the set picture prior to the repairs and modifications listed on the first post and I will say that the picture quality has gone into the dumpster! I can only restate that the picture has a blurry effect when the displayed image is in motion. For example the image was a house show. The horse legs were always blurry. If there was a closeup of a human and they were talking their mouth was blurry. There were some rectangular blocks that would show up in different parts of the picture. Would it help if I could take a photo image of the screen and post it here? Is that allowed? I do not remember seeing any information on that.

I appreciate all that you guys are doing and please do not give up on me as I really need a working solution to this.

[davejacobson]

A picture alway helps because we are guessing here. But a blury picture is not the fault of the digital signal comming from the dish. Digital is either there or not it is never fuzzy. Your fuzzy problem could be from the conversion in the receiver or the connections to the tv or the tv itself. If you are watching standard def on a high def tv it will likely be fuzzy. How does a DVD look on the same input?

[ckbrown]

Davejacobson

Thank you for your post. I can answer this <If you are watching standard def on a high def tv it will likely be fuzzy. > with yes the reciever is a SD reciever and the TV is a HD TV. I can answer this <How does a DVD look on the same input?> with the DVD picture looks clear and steady. I know that the above implies that the problem is the old issue of displaying a SD signal on a HD TV. But, I can testify that the picture quality was from very good to excellent 4 weeks ago when my boss had me watch a program that he had recorded and then I saw parts of programs while I was working on a laptop that were broadcast and the quality was clear with no artifacts in the video. Now all you see is artifacts in the video with some strange looking rectangular artifacts poping in and out of the video display. The sound does not seem to be affected.

I just have no clue.
I can not express how much I appreciate your assistance.
Thanks
ckbrown