Bad Installation Experience

[soetart]

DirecTV installer (apparently from a company called Direct Star (?)) came out on Sunday to do an HD dish upgrade, install an HD-DVR and relocate an R15 from the living room to the bedroom where there had previously been no TV.

Since I live in apartment a tripod was needed to mount the HD dish on my balcony. I made sure to tell D* that I would need a tripod mount and confirmed a second time with them that the tripod mount requirement was noted on the work order.

The guy comes out on Sunday and after I explain to him what I want him to do mentions THAT HE DOES NOT HAVE A TRIPOD TO DO THE INSTALLATION!! I ask him why are you here if the order required a tripod and you don't have one. The installer phones his supervisor who says that the company is out of tripods and they won't be in until later this week and I need to reschedule. I never got a good answer as to why he was dispatched to this job in the first place! The installer seemed surprised that a tripod was needed which makes it sounds like that information got lost along the way.

Finally I asked the installer if he could leave the HD-DVR and do the needed wiring work so at least we would have two TVs. He said that you cannot activate an HD-DVR through an 18 inch dish (can someone verify this). So I ended up with NOTHING!

Called D* (LIVID!) and explained my situation. The rep did not have an answer why I was not notified earlier that the installer ran out of tripods. She claimed to send an e-mail to the "home office" and someone would get back to me within 24 hours. Unsurpisingly, 24 hours have past with no callback. The rep then rescheduled my appointment for October 3rd and gave me a year of free DVR service to compensate me for my troubles.

I HATE the communication wall that exists between D* and its installers. I thought D* O&Oing installers would make things run smoother but in this case it certainly has not.

:new_cussi

Absolutely Disgusted,
Bill

[evan_s]

I'm sorry to hear about your frustration but it isn't surprising. The reps you speak to on the phone have no direct method of inputting anything into the system. They say you want an hd dvr and the system automatically determines that you will need a new dish and anything else required. They can add a note but that is all it is. A note that doesn't actually effect anything in the ordering system or ensure the installer will come with a ladder, pole mount or anything like that.

[idigg]

cancel and get cable

[RobertE]

Oh where to begin...

Let me preface this response with the following disclaimer. Nothing below should be taken as defending or justifing what happened.

As already pointed out, the ordering system determines what equipement is needed to complete your installation.

While I can't speak for other HSPs/warehouses, we do not stock, carry, supply or use tripods. The dish either goes on a pole in the ground, mounted to the structure or a non pen mount is used.

Some of the notes that get typed in the "tech notes" sometimes looks like it was typed by a room full of monkeys. Some winners have been: "40 ft ladder needed" - this was for a single wide trailer. "Customer has roof", thats helpfull. :rolleyes: "Call first", but no number listed or number has been disconnected. Etc, etc, etc. So, most techs simply ignore notes as they rarely apply.

Unfortenately CSRs at times will tell you whatever you want to hear to make the sale and/or get you off the phone. Wireless receivers, dish can go in the attic, it can point any direction, can point through trees, on and on. I've heard all those. :(

Now for your specific case.

If there was enough room, a NPR6A/B non pen mount should have been used. If the tech had completed the install with the new recievers and did not install the dish, while that would have got you someone going for the day, he most likely would get hit with a chargeback for an incomplete install. That chargeback quite possibly would have cost him more than what he would get paid to do the job. So, I can't blame him for not hooking up the new boxes.

With the restrictions and chargeback system that DirecTv and the HSPs have put into play, it either needs to be done correctly (equipment wise) or not at all.

You can thank the free install and corporate greed for that.

[BattleZone]

Sometime before mid 2010, it is expected that HSP contractors will have (read-only) access to DirecTV's Siebol-based work-order system. Currently, most have ZERO access to the notes and such. I totally understand how frustrating it is for the customers not to be able to communicate to the installers (installers share the same frustration), but at least there is movement in that direction.

[rudeney]

I'm just a simple guy from Alabama, but I have been in many different roles in this type of transaction.

As a customer, I find it completely frustrating when a service organization cannot communicate effectively between the sales, order processing, accounting and delivery staff.

As a 30-year IT veteran, I find it unbelievable that software systems still exist today that do not allow for the easy and effective flow of information with a service organization.

As a business manager, I find it totally unacceptable that key customer order information cannot be effectively communicated throughout my organization. Especially when a lack of that communication means poor customer service experiences and even losses of revenue.

Now, I can figure this out, why can't D*!?

[joe diamond]

Sometime before mid 2010, it is expected that HSP contractors will have (read-only) access to DirecTV's Siebol-based work-order system. Currently, most have ZERO access to the notes and such. I totally understand how frustrating it is for the customers not to be able to communicate to the installers (installers share the same frustration), but at least there is movement in that direction.

There is a choice,

If Directv became the employer of the installer then DTV could direct what happens...and be responsible for what happens.

As a customer buying the service of contractors, Directv cannot direct anything....officially. They only pay for completed work.

Once the boxes are in and activated all is well for Directv. That is the model up to now.

Someone should have mentioned real early on that tripods are not one of the FREE things DTV will use. How would you like to get a service call to repoint a tripod?

As always,

Joe

[satguy22]

Direct tv will only let me charge $30. for a tri-pod and they cost more than that plus I have to give them 30% of that and because it come thru my pay check I have to pay extra for workmens comp and other insurance plus fed taxes. No one is getting a tri-pod from me.

[BattleZone]

All of the posters above have it right:

"Free Installation" devalues the installation work in everyone's eyes. Not only is pay low, but many HSPs try to take a percentage of their workers' custom work and/or force them to charge less than break-even for parts. Ask *anyone* who is in the service business if they could survive by charging cost, or less, for the parts they have to stock, and they'll laugh at you, but that's the norm.

Keep in mind too that installers bear the cost of everyone else's failures. Salesperson lied/omitted something/made a mistake? The installer is one who is yelled at, and then must spend his work time on the phone trying to fix it. Siebel system didn't pass on important notes? The installer has to deal with it, meaning he either loses the job (and the time/gas spent getting their and discovering the problem), or has to drive around and get the equipment needed to make it happen. Customer changes his mind and wants to do a work-order change the day of (this runs about 30%)? Installer has to try to make it happen and still get to his other jobs on-time, at risk of penalty.

While on one hand I do believe that DirecTV is making some positive steps in correcting communication between customers and installers (and the folks in-between), the constant squeezing of installers to do more work for less money has gotten things to the point where it's surprising that the whole system doesn't collapse (which does happen occasionally in regional areas).

[JB292]

For what it's worth, I'm a DirecTV employee. We are not allowed to install a Slimline dish with a tripod at all. It has to either be on a poll in the ground with concrete, non pen, or ubolts connected to a railing, with the apartment management's consent.

When we see an order for HD at an apartment complex, we pretty much know it won't go. Lots of pissed off, and disapponted customers.

[rudeney]

Direct tv will only let me charge $30. for a tri-pod and they cost more than that plus I have to give them 30% of that and because it come thru my pay check I have to pay extra for workmens comp and other insurance plus fed taxes. No one is getting a tri-pod from me.

Look at your paycheck again, because expense reimbursements are not taxable nor subject to workers comp, insurance, etc. If they are this way on your check, you need to have a conversation with your payroll people. Of course they shoudl also be reimbursing you for the actual cost. If not, then that becomes a tax deduction.

[MrShowtime]

Where in NJ do you live? I am a service tech for DirectSat (the HSP for southern NJ). We don't put KaKu Dishes on tripods. Its just asking for trouble. Depending on your complex, it would either be a railmount (which are very very underrated), a pole in the ground, or a non-pen. And based on the warehouse being out of equipment, it sounds like you live in my service region, cuz they dont ever have anything

[joe diamond]

Look at your paycheck again, because expense reimbursements are not taxable nor subject to workers comp, insurance, etc. If they are this way on your check, you need to have a conversation with your payroll people. Of course they shoudl also be reimbursing you for the actual cost. If not, then that becomes a tax deduction.

Rudeney,

Ya know if you fail to make a profit in an enterprise after...three years I think...the IRS can rule that the activity is actually a hobby and go back and look at all deductions.

I had one of those conversations about reimbursement for materials. After adding materials and wages (an HSP subcontractor paying wages!) and considering what he offered for vehicle compensation he discovered real soon he was too far down the food chain to make any money.

And this was before MASTEC worked their magic on his invoices.

It ended quickly. Who knew...the FREE installation was actually installers working for FREE.

Joe

[rudeney]

Rudeney,

Ya know if you fail to make a profit in an enterprise after...three years I think...the IRS can rule that the activity is actually a hobby and go back and look at all deductions.

I had one of those conversations about reimbursement for materials. After adding materials and wages (an HSP subcontractor paying wages!) and considering what he offered for vehicle compensation he discovered real soon he was too far down the food chain to make any money.

And this was before MASTEC worked their magic on his invoices.

It ended quickly. Who knew...the FREE installation was actually installers working for FREE.

Joe


You're talking about a self-employment situation. JB292 was referring to deductions on a paycheck which means he is no the business owner.

But regardless of IRS issues, if you guys aren't making any money doing the job, then you should quit. Honestly, why bother? I know if I were not earning a paycheck, I would not be doing what I do (and trust me, I've quit many times because the pay wasn't enough to make it worth my time).

[soetart]

Thanks to everyone who responded!

I actually am a customer in MrShowtimes district and I PMed him with some more details of my situation. MrShowtimes company actually DID get back to me but left a message at my home while I was at work composing my initial message.

Based on all your feedback it appears the chief culprit is (unsurprisingly) the lack of communication between D* and their installers. FWIW, while I was visibly upset I did my best to be civil with the installer since I guessed (correctly) that the problem was likely further upstream.

Since this is an apartment complex, poll mount is not an option. The choices in this case would be either tripod or railmount. A Nonpen MIGHT be an option assuming a 36x36 base.

BTW does anyone know if the tech was accurate when he said he could not activate an HD-DVR through an 18 inch dish?

Thanks again,
Bill

[RobertE]

Since this is an apartment complex, poll mount is not an option. The choices in this case would be either tripod or railmount. Nonpen MIGHT be an option depending on how much room the base takes up.

BTW does anyone know if the tech was accurate when he said he could not activate an HD-DVR through an 18 inch dish?



Before the IV software on the receivers, yes he could activate the HR with any dish. Now with the IV, when the activation signal is sent, it's also told what type of dish is needed. If it don't match, it's a no go.

The proper non-pen for a kaku dish is 3x3' or 3x4', can't remember off the top of my head.

[joe diamond]

You're talking about a self-employment situation. JB292 was referring to deductions on a paycheck which means he is no the business owner.

But regardless of IRS issues, if you guys aren't making any money doing the job, then you should quit. Honestly, why bother? I know if I were not earning a paycheck, I would not be doing what I do (and trust me, I've quit many times because the pay wasn't enough to make it worth my time).

Rudeney,

That is where it is! These HSPs tell everyone they are contractors. Self employed contractors are free to quote prices and often miss jobs to lower bidders. They would also be free to trash the DTV suggested price list.

But it doesn't turn out that way. Misclassification of workers happens all the time. Eventually everyone discovers they are not breaking even and leaves, therefore the high turnover & great service.

Joe

[sunoff]

"But regardless of IRS issues, if you guys aren't making any money doing the job, then you should quit. Honestly, why bother?"
---Rudeney


Figure out a way to charge what you need to....or gtfo (get the f out)

[joe diamond]

"But regardless of IRS issues, if you guys aren't making any money doing the job, then you should quit. Honestly, why bother?"
---Rudeney


Figure out a way to charge what you need to....or gtfo (get the f out)

Worked for me!

Joe

[ThomasM]

cancel and get cable

Right. Cable installers never make such errors or disappoint customers... :icon_lol:

[tlieberg]

I'm just a customer - never been an installer but I always find threads like this amusing. DirecTV doesn't fix these installation process issues because they don't care. They've outsourced their installations to isolate themselves from all the risk and costs associated with maintaining trained employees, supplies, etc. In the cases where there is an issue with the install (such as the OP) they throw in a year of protection plan or somesuch, get the receivers activated, lock the customer into a two-year commitment and pocket the money. As long as cable keeps generating a new customer base, they have no incentive to make this process more efficient or customer-centric. This is a numbers business - as long as new activations keep growing, they'll find every way to spend less and less on the installation process. Example: moving to SWM. Some out here may think SWM is a great customer service move, responding to the many install issues you see discussed out here. Not a snowball's chance in he!!. D* wants to move to that as soon a practical so they can pay installers/HSPs less. Based on my recent mover's connection install, using a SWM and existing cabling in my house saved the installer 2 hours minimum. At that rate paying for the SWM equipment is peanuts. If D* can make the systems easier to install and quicker to install, they are going to pay less for it, pure and simple.

[Shades228]

I'm just a customer - never been an installer but I always find threads like this amusing. DirecTV doesn't fix these installation process issues because they don't care. They've outsourced their installations to isolate themselves from all the risk and costs associated with maintaining trained employees, supplies, etc. In the cases where there is an issue with the install (such as the OP) they throw in a year of protection plan or somesuch, get the receivers activated, lock the customer into a two-year commitment and pocket the money. As long as cable keeps generating a new customer base, they have no incentive to make this process more efficient or customer-centric. This is a numbers business - as long as new activations keep growing, they'll find every way to spend less and less on the installation process. Example: moving to SWM. Some out here may think SWM is a great customer service move, responding to the many install issues you see discussed out here. Not a snowball's chance in he!!. D* wants to move to that as soon a practical so they can pay installers/HSPs less. Based on my recent mover's connection install, using a SWM and existing cabling in my house saved the installer 2 hours minimum. At that rate paying for the SWM equipment is peanuts. If D* can make the systems easier to install and quicker to install, they are going to pay less for it, pure and simple.


I don't think anyone disputes that SWM's make everyones life easier. It comes down to logistics and cost. The logistics is getting all the old equipment that's been paid for out in the field so the warehouses are sitting on tons of excess items that are no longer used. Then you have to determine how many you're going to need for a certain time. I highly doubt they're ordering in less than the hundred thousand incriments. Then you have to distribute them accordingly. They have to still have enough legacy equipment until they decide it's more cost effective to start replacing equipment on existing accounts that are note SWM compatable.

All of this costs a lot of money and someone is going to pay for it. I don't want price increases just to fund other peoples legacy equipment upgrades or to cover new equipment needs for every new customer out there when there is older equipment that will work.

[SteveHas]

The problem here folks is the customer is left p.o.'d and the relationship with D* has just started.
Installers being mis-treated, or under paid, D* employees not being able to communicate clearly for whatever reason, all of these are real issues, but NO ONE at D* is getting it.
The customer is all that matters here, not excuses.
D* will probably loose most of these bad install customers within a short period of time due to the relationship starting out with a bad, or very bad install. No amount of wonderfulness (and D* has ALOT!) will over come this initial bad impression in the long run when FiOs, or the cable company call with a "great deal".
The rest of this is just squabbling.
That is not to say these are not legitimate issues, but rather
customers don't care!
They don't want to know that D* can't get their software to do blah blah blah, or the problems the installer has getting paid, they just want that cool new satellite service they have been waiting for, or worse yet, talked their family into changing to.
When the install falls apart they are left frustrated, angry and possibly feeling a little betrayed.
When I go to the cleaners I don't want to know why, or how my shirts got cleaned, or the button got fixed I just want to pick them up...on time.

This is simply customer service at the start of a relationship, and D* is ultimately hurting themselves until the decide to fix the issue.

[rudeney]

I really believe the problem here is in the way D* tries to compete head to head with cable. While the end product of "watching TV" is the same and customer service is about equal, the equipment and installation are totally different and far more complex with satellite service. I know I can appreciate D*'s end product over cable, but the average consumer probably won't. Combine that with frustrating installation experiences, unclear lease vs. purchase terms, errors with improperly extended commitments, and CSR's that simply don't understand the complexities of their own organization and it's a recipe for poor customer satisfaction from day one.

[joe diamond]

I really believe the problem here is in the way D* tries to compete head to head with cable. While the end product of "watching TV" is the same and customer service is about equal, the equipment and installation are totally different and far more complex with satellite service. I know I can appreciate D*'s end product over cable, but the average consumer probably won't. Combine that with frustrating installation experiences, unclear lease vs. purchase terms, errors with improperly extended commitments, and CSR's that simply don't understand the complexities of their own organization and it's a recipe for poor customer satisfaction from day one.

"zactly,

The only ones who will put up with the crap are the rural customers who know cable will never arrive. Suburbia is up for grabs and everyone had better play nice or they will be replaced. AND urban areas with apartments should be given over to the cable dudes.

That is just me.

Joe

[tlieberg]

I know we've hijacked the thread here but to put it simply: Directv isn't going to fix any of these issues, at least not in the way most here might like. Companies in America, large companies at least are no longer managed with "narrative logic" like "if we treat the customer better, we'll make more money" or "if the install process is smoother for the customer, we'll retain more customers." Instead they are managed by actuarial logic: if subscriptions go up by x% month to month or year to year and install costs go down, we make money." No money will be spent unless a direct measure of profit can be made. The install process is such a small part of the customer experience, it's very hard to justify spending much money making it better. Especially when they can patch over at least half the issues with cheap freebies - protection plan for free or a $5 credit for 6 or 12 months. Keep in mind most people coming to D* have already been poorly used by the competition so when they call to complain about a poor install and suddenly get a "deal" they leave happy. I mean, when the cable company misses an install date, what are the chances they give the caller 3 months of Showtime for free? (Which is another profit opportunity for D* - when the free period ends, they start billing the customer for it. Nice feature for the Mover's Connection by the way :nono2:

I think it's great all the people that come here to offer advice and help people "work the system." But it's a pipe dream to think D* will do much to make it less likely for people to need the help in the first place.

[soetart]

So, the installer from DirectSAT USA comes out yesterday to do my installation that was botched back in the beginning of this thread. Naturally, the first thing I ask him (almost jokingly) was:

"Did you bring the tripod?"

His response?

"I don't have a tripod"

:flaiming

I think I used up most of my outrage in my original post.

This time the installer actually acknowledged that they knew the work order mentioned needing a tripod but the supervisor sent the installer out ANYWAY "to see what he could do". Naturally NOBODY knew that a tech had been out less than two weeks ago.

After expressing outrage to the supervisor, the supervisor then proceeded to "call around" to try and find a tripod. He called back and "assured" me he had one and would be picking it up on Monday and scheduled an appointment for Friday afternoon.

Called D*, outraged, received more programming credits. Still no HD, still no bedroom receiver, D* is out money, the installer wastes another truck roll. Lather.. Rinse.. Repeat...

Stay tuned for the next installment of this saga next weekend. I have no faith DirectSAT USA is going to get this right anytime soon. I figure on having free D* service for the next 5 years!

This is beyond atrocious, it's now just pathetic.

:nono2:

Bill

[joe diamond]

So, the installer from DirectSAT USA comes out yesterday to do my installation that was botched back in the beginning of this thread. Naturally, the first thing I ask him (almost jokingly) was:

"Did you bring the tripod?"

His response?

"I don't have a tripod"

:flaiming

I think I used up most of my outrage in my original post.

This time the installer actually acknowledged that they knew the work order mentioned needing a tripod but the supervisor sent the installer out ANYWAY "to see what he could do". Naturally NOBODY knew that a tech had been out less than two weeks ago.

After expressing outrage to the supervisor, the supervisor then proceeded to "call around" to try and find a tripod. He called back and "assured" me he had one and would be picking it up on Monday and scheduled an appointment for Friday afternoon.

Called D*, outraged, received more programming credits. Still no HD, still no bedroom receiver, D* is out money, the installer wastes another truck roll. Lather.. Rinse.. Repeat...

Stay tuned for the next installment of this saga next weekend. I have no faith DirectSAT USA is going to get this right anytime soon. I figure on having free D* service for the next 5 years!

This is beyond atrocious, it's now just pathetic.

:nono2:

Bill

They agreed to somehow provide a tripod? That is clearly way out of the BASIC FREE installation Directv pays for.
Somehow I think DirectSatUSA has some kind of deal to fix screwed up installations and back charge someone.

Anyhow...you pay for the tripod yourself. To fulfill any kind of installation contract the installer must attach the dish to a structure. Has anyone mentioned this?

Joe

[soetart]

They agreed to somehow provide a tripod? That is clearly way out of the BASIC FREE installation Directv pays for.
Somehow I think DirectSatUSA has some kind of deal to fix screwed up installations and back charge someone.

Anyhow...you pay for the tripod yourself. To fulfill any kind of installation contract the installer must attach the dish to a structure. Has anyone mentioned this?

Joe

I made D* and the installer aware up front that a tripod was required and was willing to pay the extra fee. The installer (especially after the 2nd botched install) has no excuse IMO.

Bill

[David MacLeod]

wonder how this will work since tripod isn't an approved mount for these dishes.

[joe diamond]

I made D* and the installer aware up front that a tripod was required and was willing to pay the extra fee. The installer (especially after the 2nd botched install) has no excuse IMO.

Bill

Bill,

You just do not understand how stupid things have become.
First of all know that the tripod is not sufficient to be a dependable mount for the Ka/Ku dishes.

Having said that, after installation, if you even call Directv for information about how to repoint the dish they will find a way to deduct $100.00 from the installer's money. He will probably be a new guy and when he sees this he will quit.

Others, who choose to continue in installations, will not screw around with anything but the script...think MacDonald's picture cash registers....they know they will not get paid and it has happened that back charges are greater than weekly pay checks.

Directv has done as much as they can to bring their installations in-house and under the control of their Home Service Providers. What you want is not impossible, they just do not want to do it at any price. Once installed they will have to live with it.

Joe

[JB292]

Like I said earlier, I'm in house. We CAN'T do it. It's not an approved method for the KaKu dish.

Now I can't vouch for DirectSat. But I think Joe has it right. Installers will not want to do a non approved install, and risk the backcharge.

[jdspencer]

Then this fact should have been stated from the beginning.

[MrShowtime]

FYI, DirectSat does not backcharge inhouse techs. That being said, I'm sure most people have improvised a mount or two as long as they are stable. He has a wooden balcony that I could most definitely improvise a mount to provided he allowed me to drill a few lags into it. If you are ok with some lags being drilled into your wooden balcony, the standard kaku mount can be directly attached to it. I've seen it done before and done it once before myself. PM me more details about your install, like when its been rescheduled for. I'll see if I can get my buddy that now works in your region to have the job assigned to him. He is the master of fabbing up nice mounts.

[joe diamond]

Then this fact should have been stated from the beginning.

JD,

You see the Directv ads; cool guys in uniforms bringing in Directv services on a platter etc.........

Most customers have never met a Directv employee or spoken to one. Everyone is a contractor! But if you are the only client you can exert great pressure on contractors to do things your way.

Also, things have been changing from an early period of "get it done" to a more recent period of "do it right."
Add to this the evolving HD system and the SWM equipment and things get murkey. As the customer base grows the difficult or merely unpleasant potential customers can be dumped. The recent trend to extend contracts suggests a transition from a cutting edge new technology to an only-game-in-town mentality.

As things get more complex Directv chooses to cut the money offered to those who have the skill and experience to do it right.

Go figure,

Joe

[avmaster]

Sorry to hear your troubles. I would suggest getting your on tripod before their next trip. I know that for me, the HSP would go through weeks and be out of stock for 'custom' mounts.

Basically, sat systems are just not very apartment friendly. And they do not have tripods specifically designed for KA/KU dishes, and they are not DTV approved for those dishes, however they can be made to work with a little creativity.

And the tech can never just 'leave' you a reciever with the work order still open. thats a big no-no.

Yes, it is a matter of the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing.

[joe diamond]

FYI, DirectSat does not backcharge inhouse techs. . . . I'll see if I can get my buddy that now works in your region to have the job assigned to him. He is the master of fabbing up nice mounts.

You don't back charge employees....they get fired. The other possibility is to send a subcontractor to take a shot. Then the customer might get activated and you can refuse to pay the subcontractor for Quality Control (QC) reasons.

Joe

[soetart]

Just a little clarification.

While the KaKu tripod mount is not sanctioned by D* they are ALL OVER this complex. I can count four of them in my neck of the woods alone. I think what makes this possible is that balconies are closed in on three sides which provides decent protection from the wind. I just assumed they were sanctioned since there were just so many of them.

Prior to making this appointment I spoke to an installer putting in an HD tripod mount. He gave me a card for a company called Direct Star TV. I expected to be dealing with this company when I called D* but was sent to DirectSAT instead. I figured with so many tripods already in the area, the local installer wouldn't have a problem supplying one. I guess I was wrong.

In any case, I'm cautiously optimistic about Friday. We'll see what happens.

:icon_an:

Bill

[JB292]

I hope it works out for you. If it doesn't, call the installer who gave you the card. He'll most likely have to cancel your original work order, and create a new one.

Just to give you an idea, in my area, at apartments, there are lots of sd dish's in 5 gallon buckets, with concrete. That's another no no according to DirecTV.

We all know there are ways to make it work. But some of us installers have to follow the script, right or wrong.

[rudeney]

Prior to making this appointment I spoke to an installer putting in an HD tripod mount. He gave me a card for a company called Direct Star TV. I expected to be dealing with this company when I called D* but was sent to DirectSAT instead.

It sounds like Direct Star TV is doing these tripods as an independent reseller. If things don't work out Friday, you might try calling them directly.

[soetart]

I hope it works out for you. If it doesn't, call the installer who gave you the card. He'll most likely have to cancel your original work order, and create a new one.

Just to give you an idea, in my area, at apartments, there are lots of sd dish's in 5 gallon buckets, with concrete. That's another no no according to DirecTV.

We all know there are ways to make it work. But some of us installers have to follow the script, right or wrong.

HA! I saw an HD dish mounted in a bucket at one of the apartments here. A few weeks later I guess the tenant moved out and the HD dish with bucket was in the dumpster area. I would have been VERY tempted to take it but the LNB was missing. :nono:

Honestly, if the Slimline dishes didn't have the reputation of being such a pain to line up correctly, I would have done this myself. My current 18 inch mount is a homemade creation you can see below:

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/675676/18dish1.jpg

It may not look like much but this mount has been to two apartments and has toppled only two times in seven years (once during a tropical storm). Each time it only needed to be picked up and the alignment tweaked and it was good as new. I'll be a little sad to see it go. :(

I asked MrShowtime if this and the concrete support behind it could be used in tandem for the HD dish but he didn't think it would work.

FWIW,
Bill

[soetart]

Well the DirectSAT reps came out for a third time this past Friday. Once again, despite assurances from the DirectSAT supervisor that installers would have a tripod they (two installers this time) arrived without one.

A tripod was in the neighborhood this time however and one of the installers was sent to pick it up. In the meantime, the other installer had spotted a couple of railmounts in my complex and suggested we try one. I broached the idea to my apartment complex and while they were skittish at first eventually agreed to it since the pole would be merely clamped to the railing.

Roughly 2.5 hours later everything was setup. After the installers left I tweaked the install to use the flat coax cable that I had been using to pass through my patio door (installers were unsure if it would work and did a barrel connection at the door instead) and then passed the inside coax through a surge protector in order to "ground" them (another item the installers were unsure about).

In the end, the railmount is deifnitly a better solution in terms of both security and the room freed up on the patio. That said, the fact that after THREE installation attempts the installers STILL did not have the correct equipment when they arrived AND had no background on previous install attempts speaks volumes on how much room for improvement there is in the whole install process.

Special thanks to MrShowtime for his help throughout this process.

FWIW,
Bill

[RobertE]

I'm not shocked at all.

It's been stated several times that tripods are not an approved mount for the KaKu dish.

[David MacLeod]

thought flat coax was also not allowed, if a qc is done on this are those techs going to get a chargeback due to that flat coax having been inserted?

[BattleZone]

thought flat coax was also not allowed, if a qc is done on this are those techs going to get a chargeback due to that flat coax having been inserted?

There is an approved flat cable: the Amphenol/Times Fiber TFC-144823. They retail for about $30 each, and are a custom item (meaning: not free), and are not warrantied.

The real problem is using them in a patio door. Sooner or later, usually sooner, they will get destroyed due to folks slamming the door on it trying to get the door to lock. On some patio doors, you can unscrew the "fixed" side of the door and put the flat cables in on that side, which works great, but not all doors can be disassembled that way.

While drilling isn't approved, it's far better, and typically the repair costs for such holes are in the $0-30 range when you move out.

[soetart]

thought flat coax was also not allowed, if a qc is done on this are those techs going to get a chargeback due to that flat coax having been inserted?

They would pretty much have to be inside my apartment to notice the flat coax (not visible from public areas). If anyone ever showed up I'd simply tell them that I modified what the techs did.

I'm fully aware that flat coax wears out, I've had a couple of cables fail over the years and simply replaced them with new ones.

Bill

[rudeney]

I don't understand the use of flat coax. pretty much any window or door frame can be drilled to run standard RG6. When you move, about $5 worth of caulk and paint is all that is needed to fix it so even the most diligent inspector could not see that it was ever done.

[wildbill129]

I don't understand the use of flat coax. pretty much any window or door frame can be drilled to run standard RG6. When you move, about $5 worth of caulk and paint is all that is needed to fix it so even the most diligent inspector could not see that it was ever done.
True, but I think the issue lies when there is an inspection or other service work when the tenant still lives there....management may not like holes in their wall..

[BattleZone]

They might not like it, but they aren't going to lose a tenant over a 3/8" hole that's easily repaired.

[motorace321]

Thanks to everyone who responded!

I actually am a customer in MrShowtimes district and I PMed him with some more details of my situation. MrShowtimes company actually DID get back to me but left a message at my home while I was at work composing my initial message.

Based on all your feedback it appears the chief culprit is (unsurprisingly) the lack of communication between D* and their installers. FWIW, while I was visibly upset I did my best to be civil with the installer since I guessed (correctly) that the problem was likely further upstream.

Since this is an apartment complex, poll mount is not an option. The choices in this case would be either tripod or railmount. A Nonpen MIGHT be an option assuming a 36x36 base.

BTW does anyone know if the tech was accurate when he said he could not activate an HD-DVR through an 18 inch dish?

Thanks again,
Bill

i am a tech for directsat here in WI and yes he was correct in not activating the hd-dvr on an 18 inch dish because we have to pick up at least 3-5 sat's for it to work depending on if u r in an area that u can get locals or not the dvr will not work on an 18 in dish it will keep failing on the install verification.

[AZsatTech]

I'm not aware of any tripods that are approved for a KaKu install. However, there are rail mounts, and non-pens that proably would have worked in you situation. Plus, most workorders don't tell the tech much about the job.