Wiring Basement...Coax suggestions

[mbrown520]

OK..I am a real novice when it comes to anything handy but we are getting ready to finish a basement and i want to do the coax myself for 10 runs down there. Right now I have a wb68 with 2 openings..eventually i know I will need a bigger mutltiswitch, will deal with that if/when i ever get the addtional receivers. That said, to save money I was going to do all the coax..what type (brand etc) of cable and connectors would you recomend? Also, any links to websites to order from would be great as I need as much info as possible. Any ideas about specific tools (crimp or compression) type etc would be good too....thanks

[RobertE]

Solid copper core.
Dual shield is fine, quad for the most part is overkill.
Compression connectors
PPC EX6-XLs are the only DirecTv approved connectors.

[BattleZone]

http://www.solidsignal.com/cview.asp?d=wire-and-cables&c=Bulk RG-6 Coax Cable&mc=13

The first choice on the list (ULPVRG6SCBLK) is exactly what you need.

[mbrown520]

Awesome..thanks guys. Ordering the Perfect vision coax, the connectors you recommended and the perfect vision compression tool on the solid signal site...let the practicing begin. Any tips on putting the connectors on easily?

[BattleZone]

http://www.hometech.com/learn/coaxterm.html

Though the pictured connector is an older, 2-piece Snap-N-Seal, the instructions are otherwise exactly what you need to do.

Don't use the stripper tool to pull the stripped cable pieces off the cable; that will ruin the tool. Unclamp the tool and pull the cut-off pieces off by hand.

Make sure you don't let any of the shield braid touch the center conductor, or the cable will be shorted and it won't work.

Connectors will go on much easier if you pull back the shield braid exactly as shown in the picture. Don't cut the shield braid off.

[sunoff]

Run at least two or more coax, and two or more cat6 to each location. Leave them blank behind wall plates. Don't even bother capping them...it's a pain in the ass and potentially expensive to do yourself. Plus .... xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx meh, personally (as a tech) I'd rather do it myself so I knew it was done right.

[ffemtreed]

for the small cost increase I would run quad shield coax. It might be overkill for now, but you never know what is coming down the line in 5 years. Consider the extra cost to be an insurance policy!

[mbrown520]

ok probably a stupid question but I know someone that has a buddy who works for a place that does DISH network installs. They have access to various coax at discount pricing. I looked at the list, surprisingly DISH approved coax included many copper covered steel conducters (thought this was a no no)..anyhow, the list has some cable listed as bare copper and some that say solid copper...is there a difference?

[BattleZone]

DishNetwork allows copper-clad-steel because they don't use voltage switching, and instead their receivers put out a constant 19V.

DirecTV uses voltage switching, making it much more critical that enough voltage is reaching the switch from the receiver.

The problem with CCS isn't the sat signal, but the voltage drop. Solid copper has less voltage drop, making it more reliable over longer distances compared to CCS.

[mbrown520]

Thanks BattleZone...found some stuff that was bare copper dual shield made by Vextra on his list. Can get it at a pretty good cost. Cant see why it wouldnt work for what I need. Bare copper should provide the needed Voltage correct?

[ffemtreed]

Are you sure the bare copper wire isn't talking about grounding or bonding wire?

[Bill Broderick]

As long as you're talking about one of these part #'s (http://www.vextratech.com/html/rg6-coaxial-cable-bc.shtml), you should be OK with the Vextra.

[Herdfan]

Cant see why it wouldnt work for what I need. Bare copper should provide the needed Voltage correct?

Keep in mind that what is cheap, is not always easy. When I was wiring my basement, I had just read that D* was now requiring solid copper. Needing to get my wiring in place, I looked everywhere for solid copper and finally found it at Lowes. It was Zenith brand.

So I ran it and when the time came to terminate it, I was cussing up a storm. It was so hard to terminate. Much harder than the Belden I had used in the past. And I am not a newbie at terminating coax, but this stuff was a bitch.

At that point I vowed to never buy cheap coax again. So the moral is spend a few extra $ and get something that will terminate easy. You will get better connections and save yourself some grief.

[mbrown520]

As long as you're talking about one of these part #'s (http://www.vextratech.com/html/rg6-coaxial-cable-bc.shtml), you should be OK with the Vextra.

That is exactly the stuff I was thinking about getting

[mbrown520]

Keep in mind that what is cheap, is not always easy. When I was wiring my basement, I had just read that D* was now requiring solid copper. Needing to get my wiring in place, I looked everywhere for solid copper and finally found it at Lowes. It was Zenith brand.

So I ran it and when the time came to terminate it, I was cussing up a storm. It was so hard to terminate. Much harder than the Belden I had used in the past. And I am not a newbie at terminating coax, but this stuff was a bitch.

At that point I vowed to never buy cheap coax again. So the moral is spend a few extra $ and get something that will terminate easy. You will get better connections and save yourself some grief.

Question is how do you know beforehand what is easy and what is not

[mjwagner]

Run at least two or more coax, and two or more cat6 to each location. Leave them blank behind wall plates. Don't even bother capping them...it's a pain in the ass and potentially expensive to do yourself. Plus .... xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx meh, personally (as a tech) I'd rather do it myself so I knew it was done right.

I would just use structured cable. It has 2 coax and 2 cat6 wrapped in a single sheath. Much easier to run. You can also get ones that include a fiber line as well just to be future proof.

[GirkMonster]

All this talk about terminations makes me chuckle. Properly installed crimped connectors work just fine. Always have. I've had D* since 1996, done my own installs in 3 houses.

Current house had 10 tvs and unused outlets for many more...OTA and sending IR back via the same Coax...no problems.

My $.02 buy good wire, and terminate it properly with good quality connectors in any way you have the proper tools. You'll be just fine. The wire doesn't care and neither does the equipment.

[CCarncross]

All this talk about terminations makes me chuckle. Properly installed crimped connectors work just fine. Always have. I've had D* since 1996, done my own installs in 3 houses.

Current house had 10 tvs and unused outlets for many more...OTA and sending IR back via the same Coax...no problems.

My $.02 buy good wire, and terminate it properly with good quality connectors in any way you have the proper tools. You'll be just fine. The wire doesn't care and neither does the equipment.

Correct, but compression fittings are easier to get right, so its a no brainer to recommend them over crimp fittings...I've seen so many bad crimp fittings over the years its not even funny, but you rarely see bad compression fittings when done properly.

[harsh]

for the small cost increase I would run quad shield coax. It might be overkill for now, but you never know what is coming down the line in 5 years. Consider the extra cost to be an insurance policy!Quad shield doesn't buy you any future capability. Suggesting that it does is a disservice.

If the goal is future compatibility, recommend running conduit and/or not stapling the daylights out of the coax.

[ffemtreed]

Quad shield doesn't buy you any future capability. Suggesting that it does is a disservice.

If the goal is future compatibility, recommend running conduit and/or not stapling the daylights out of the coax.


well if what you said is true, everyone should just run RG59 cable then! Technically you do everything with RG59 that you could with RG6.

There are reasons why companies don't want you to use RG59 anymore, and there might be reasons why companies only want to use RG6 quad shield in the future. Its a natural progression to bigger and better.

[BattleZone]

Quad shield is used in areas with high levels of RF interference; say, folks who live very near a broadcast tower. It simply provides additional shielding to the cable. While the additional shielding doesn't hurt anything, it doesn't help anything in most environments, as the standard dual-shield is plenty to shield the center conductor from stray RF.

Granted, I recommend quad-shield if you are running cable inside walls (new home or new addition construction, etc.), because the RF situation may change 10 years down the road, and the extra money spent is worth not having to replace the interior cable at great cost and effort. But if you're just running easily accessed wire in the basement, I'm not sure the extra expense is worth it, but that's for the home owner to decide. Again, QS certainly won't hurt anything, other than being a bit more difficult to terminate.

[carl6]

well if what you said is true, everyone should just run RG59 cable then! Technically you do everything with RG59 that you could with RG6.


That is not true. RG59 has smaller diameter center conductor and higher rf attenuation at all frequencies. Also it's velocity factor is different than RG6. There are a number of specific technical differences, and in every one RG6 is better than RG59.

However, the same is not true when comparing RG6 to quad shield RG6. The only difference there is the amount of shielding from external interfering signals, which is not an issue in most installations. You are not doing anything wrong by using quad shield, but you may be spending extra money unnecessarily when doing so.

[ffemtreed]

That is not true. RG59 has smaller diameter center conductor and higher rf attenuation at all frequencies. Also it's velocity factor is different than RG6. There are a number of specific technical differences, and in every one RG6 is better than RG59.

However, the same is not true when comparing RG6 to quad shield RG6. The only difference there is the amount of shielding from external interfering signals, which is not an issue in most installations. You are not doing anything wrong by using quad shield, but you may be spending extra money unnecessarily when doing so.


So there is a difference that makes regular RG6 different from RG6 quad shield. It has better electrical / magnetical shielding which makes the cable able to carry signal farther with less signal loss and noise interference or as you put it attenuation. So increasing the shielding on the quad cable gives some of the same advantages as upgrading from RG59 to RG6, less signal loss. I agree that comparing the two is apples and oranges.

Don't you think within the next 5 or 10 years there might be some applications which require quad shield coax, even for short runs? You never know whats coming down the pike. All i am saying for the small cost increase to get the better cable it might be wise to think about it. Its lot easier to pull cable now during renovation than to do it later.

[carl6]

It has better electrical / magnetical shielding which makes the cable able to carry signal farther

No, that statement is not true. It has better shielding. But better shielding does not, in and of itself, allow it to carry signal farther.

As to whether or not there will be developments that would require quad shield in the "next 5 or 10 years", I cannot anticipate that happening, unless someone builds a high power TV or radio transmission tower in your neighborhood. I do believe in ten years you probably won't see coax used for much of anything in the home entertainment arena.

[harsh]

That is not true. RG59 has smaller diameter center conductor and higher rf attenuation at all frequencies.There are RG59 cables that are rated above some of the RG6 cables. The big issue with RG59 is the smaller diameter center conductor's reduced ampacity which makes it unsuitable to power the LNB and switchgear.

[harsh]

I do believe in ten years you probably won't see coax used for much of anything in the home entertainment arena.If MoCA doesn't come down it price REAL soon, it may not take that long.

[GirkMonster]

I did run mini RG59 terminated with RCA connectors from the component outs and audio outs from my HR20 in the basement to my tv in the MBR, about 60 feet or so. Very different scenario from trying to run RG59 from the Dish, however.

I got all my wire from a buddy. Leftover spools from jobs he did. Belden duoshield, I believe. All RG6. Same goes for the CAT5e run for data and voice. Speaker wire was all shielded as well. We ran tons (but, not enough - next house I build...I'm running conduit) of wire everywhere took voice, data and tv to every room. We also wired the alarm and for video surveillance cams. All the wire was home run to a 64 sq ft area in the basement where I installed plywood on the back of a closet and built a couple of shelves. The telephone network terminates in two 66-blocks, I have a network patch panel, three switches and my router and cable modem there along with 2 DVRs, a Slingbox, NAS, tv, pc, alarm panel, a couple of TrippLite surge suppressors (thanks, Sprint), and my surveillance DVR. My wires run through D-rings throughout the basement - no staples.