The Official DIRECTV HD TiVo Anticipation Thread - Q4 2009 Edition

[Stuart Sweet]

Even though there's been no real news about the upcoming DIRECTV-TiVo device in over a year, discussion here at DBSTalk.com has been brewing. As the new device gets closer, we'll be rebooting this thread once a quarter until we see some real hardware hit the streets.

Ground Rules:

This is not a free-for-all. Rudeness will not be tolerated.


If you harp on a particular point to the exclusion of others, your posts may be deleted.


We all acknowledge that very little is known about the new TiVo device and what we've been told may no longer be current. Do not claim to "know" something if you truly do not.

This is the singular thread for all future TiVo discussion until the device is actually revealed. Other threads will be closed.

Above all, enjoy speculating and anticipating a new chapter in DIRECTV history!

September 2008 Press Release (http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1774220&postcount=1)
TiVo SEC Filing (http://biz.yahoo.com/e/080903/tivo8-k.html)

[Stuart Sweet]

Synopsis of common arguments: (in other words, this ground's already been trodden, do we have to go there again?)


Many people like the TiVo interface, especially the list guide.
Many people are equally fond of the DIRECTV interface.
Many people think that TiVos are easier for them to use.
Many people think that DIRECTV DVRs are easier for them to use.
Standalone TiVo devices have many features that are appealing to people.
No guarantee has been made that any feature from a standalone TiVo will make it to the DIRECTV TiVo.
The new device will run on DIRECTV hardware, although we don't know how that will work (we have some ideas).
TiVo, Inc. will develop the software for the device and seems to be solely responsible for the user experience.

[Stuart Sweet]

And with that... commence anticipating!

[Sim-X]

So am I gonna have 2 dish out $ for a new unit and send back my hd-dvr that I paid $200 bucks for 2 months ago or will dtv cut me a break...

[ccsoftball7]

Anticipating... ;)

[ffemtreed]

I am anticpating its OTA ability to SCAN! and of course my list guide back.

[Sim-X]

I have never owned or used a "real" tivo before - comcrap was rolling it out in some markets on the crappy moto boxes but I'm sure they ran like garbage. I hope this one has fast hardware.

[whitepelican]

Anticipating... ;)

Much, much anticipating here, too. I'm currently running 4 HR10-250's. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the new DirecTivo appears before they remove the remaining MPEG2 HD stations.

[ATARI]

Synopsis of common arguments: (in other words, this ground's already been trodden, do we have to go there again?)


Many people like the TiVo interface, especially the list guide.
Many people are equally fond of the DIRECTV interface.
Many people think that TiVos are easier for them to use.
Many people think that DIRECTV DVRs are easier for them to use.
Standalone TiVo devices have many features that are appealing to people.
No guarantee has been made that any feature from a standalone TiVo will make it to the DIRECTV TiVo.
The new device will run on DIRECTV hardware, although we don't know how that will work (we have some ideas).
TiVo, Inc. will develop the software for the device and seems to be solely responsible for the user experience.


You forgot the love for the peanut remote.

[Steve]

You forgot the love for the peanut remote.Brings up an interesting point... if, as some suspect, the new DirecTiVo will be based on one of the current HR2x designs, will it use that HR2x's existing remote? Or will there be a new one offered?

I can't imagine a "TiVo" without a "peanut" remote. That makes me wonder if a new "peanut" might be compatible with our current HR2x's.

Has anyone used a Comcast DVR that is now running TiVo software? Does it use the old remote, or a new one?

[RAD]

I anticipate that folks will not like what comes out unless it can do everything the non-D* Tivo's can do. Since DirecTV crippled their Tivo boxes when compared to the non-D* boxes before I hope they don't do it again.

[elaclair]

Since this is anticipated to be running on Direct's hardware, I'd like to see the ability to load either software, similar to the way you can force a download on bootup. You know, press 0-2-4-6-8 to get Direct's software and 8-6-4-2-0 to get the Tivo software.....

[davring]

Since this is anticipated to be running on Direct's hardware, I'd like to see the ability to load either software, similar to the way you can force a download on bootup. You know, press 0-2-4-6-8 to get Direct's software and 8-6-4-2-0 to get the Tivo software.....

I can just imagine a frontline CSR dealing with that:)

[trainman]

I can't imagine a "TiVo" without a "peanut" remote.

My first TiVo, a standalone that I used with cable, was the Sony SVR-2000, which had a Sony-designed remote instead of the peanut. Fairly soon after that, I got a Home Theater Master universal remote.

I upgraded to a TiVo Series 2 standalone. That one did have the peanut, but I was still using the HTM universal remote.

I switched to DirecTV and a Hughes DirecTiVo. Another TiVo that came with the peanut, but I was still using the HTM universal remote.

I upgraded to HD, and switched to the DirecTV HR21-700. It came with a DirecTV-designed remote, but I'm still using the HTM universal remote.

In conclusion...I can't imagine TiVo with a peanut remote! :D

[Steve]

In conclusion...I can't imagine TiVo with a peanut remote! :D:lol:

I may be in the minority, but I'm one of those users who loved both the "peanut" and the TiVo-style GUIDE. :shrug:

[Drew2k]

I never liked the TiVo peanut, as it was too easy to grab it by the wrong end in a dark room and hold it upside down. From past discussions it seems the new DIRECTV TiVo unit will be on new hardware, not a software option for existing users, I would expect it to come with a TiVo-peanut remote, but of course the TiVo button will be a DIRECTV button instead.

[bhuber]

:lol:

I may be in the minority, but I'm one of those users who loved both the "peanut" and the TiVo-style GUIDE. :shrug:

Me too!

[mreposter]

I still have my old DirecTIVO connected to an old 13" TV in my office. It's not connected to the dish or anything, but when I'm feeling sentimental, I turn it on and browse through the old shows still in the catalogue. (Heavy sigh - ah, fond memories of days gone by...)

[Talos4]

My first TiVo, a standalone that I used with cable, was the Sony SVR-2000, which had a Sony-designed remote instead of the peanut. Fairly soon after that, I got a Home Theater Master universal remote.

I upgraded to a TiVo Series 2 standalone. That one did have the peanut, but I was still using the HTM universal remote.

I switched to DirecTV and a Hughes DirecTiVo. Another TiVo that came with the peanut, but I was still using the HTM universal remote.

I upgraded to HD, and switched to the DirecTV HR21-700. It came with a DirecTV-designed remote, but I'm still using the HTM universal remote.

In conclusion...I can't imagine TiVo with a peanut remote! :D

Same here.

Substitute the Universal Remotes MX-850.

I think I have 6-7 D* remotes stuffed in end tables.

Aren't peanuts for eating while watching TV?

[Jeremy W]

I anticipate that this product will never see the light of day.

[Sixto]

I anticipate that this product will never see the light of day.Then the TiVO CEO has much explaining to do. :)

He was quite animated on the topic a few weeks ago, at a major conference.

DirecTV has been quiet.

[Jeremy W]

Then the TiVO CEO has much explaining to do. :)
Nah, it's certainly possible that they still believe it's going to happen. But I don't see it happening.

[Go Beavs]

I never liked the TiVo peanut, as it was too easy to grab it by the wrong end in a dark room and hold it upside down...

:lol: Oh that's funny. I don't know how many times I've done that. I end up cussing that the damned batteries were dead again. Or I press the buttens harder and harder until I realize that I'm pointing the remote at my belly.:lol:

While I like the TiVo interface, I also like the HR2x's. I wouldn't pay a nickel extra to use it. There would have to be somthing extra special about it. What that is, I'm not sure. :shrug:

[RCY]

While I moved away from the peanut remote to use universal remotes, other than the symmetry of the shape issue pointed out earlier, I actually liked the remote. The transport buttons in particular were very comfortably placed. Once oriented correctly in my hand, I never had to hunt for any buttons. My harmony 550 was not as easy to learn/use IMO.

As to the SD DTivo interface, meh. It's adequate, with plusses and minuses. (Adding a Season Pass is so sloooooow. OTOH, I like the DLB implementation. YMMV.) For me and my family, it's functional and we're used to it. But a HD DTivo is not worth an additional fee to me. I'm already paying a DVR fee, thanks.

[Sixto]

The TiVo Glo Remote has ripping on the bottom to differentiate the top from the bottom. Was wondering why I never noticed that, but just checked and it's because I replaced all mine with Glo's. Very nice remote with tactile feedback, and it's balanced a little differently as well.

[tuff bob]

Is it still to be 1st half of 2010? I want to upgrade 2 receivers to HD-DVR's and I hate to use up my "hearts" and a contract extension on the HR2X series if Tivos are coming out.

[Doug Brott]

I anticipate that folks will not like what comes out unless it can do everything the non-D* Tivo's can do. Since DirecTV crippled their Tivo boxes when compared to the non-D* boxes before I hope they don't do it again.

I suspect you are making an assumption as to who did the crippling .. Also, anything that could be construed as illegal is likely not going to be available in a new DIRECTV TiVo (does that count as crippling?)

[Movieman]

If its a whole home solution box with OTA built in would make me very happy. So anticipating.

[RAD]

I suspect you are making an assumption as to who did the crippling .. Also, anything that could be construed as illegal is likely not going to be available in a new DIRECTV TiVo (does that count as crippling?)


Do I know for sure, nope, do you? But all the talk back then about why DirecTV Tivo's didn't have all the same features as the non-DirecTV Tivo boxes was being done at the request of DirecTV. As for your hacking of the code comment, not talking about that, just saying that all the features you get on a standalong Tivo should be on the DirecTV box or I can see folks not being very happy.

[Doug Brott]

Do I know for sure, nope, do you? But all the talk back then about why DirecTV Tivo's didn't have all the same features as the non-DirecTV Tivo boxes was being done at the request of DirecTV. As for your hacking of the code comment, not talking about that, just saying that all the features you get on a standalong Tivo should be on the DirecTV box or I can see folks not being very happy.

I don't know for sure, no but I have a pretty good idea .. Yeah, I know DIRECTV was blamed for all of it back then. I still stand by my comment.

[Doug Brott]

If its a whole home solution box with OTA built in would make me very happy. So anticipating.

I'm not 100% sure, but I really do not think that built-in OTA will be included this time around.

[oldfantom]

Nah, it's certainly possible that they still believe it's going to happen. But I don't see it happening.

Listen Harsh, if you insist on stealing other users ids.....

Sorry could not resist.

I for one am looking forward to the choice. I think having Tivo in the mix will be good for the consumer no matter which you choose - then again I never thought the VS dispute would go this far, so what do I know.

[oldfantom]

So am I gonna have 2 dish out $ for a new unit and send back my hd-dvr that I paid $200 bucks for 2 months ago or will dtv cut me a break...

BTW - Although I will get a Tivo immediately upon release, I would not recommend it. Especially in your shoes. You would be paying too much to jump ship (unless it is free and I can't believe that would happen if there is a hardware change) and you would be an early adopter. Even though there is a mature Tivo product for D*, I anticipate the normal level of new product bugs on this new model/software.

[hdtvfan0001]

OK...here's some anticipation...

I anticipate a new HD TIVO unit for DirecTV that contains a 1TB hard drive, two 1GB ethernet connection network support, no OTA support, but support for 4 concurrent HD tuners, and a GUI that is more similar to DirecTV's base user interface at that time than different. (in other words, I expect the new planned UI for all the HRx DVRs will also be released about that same time).

Launch date - about April 1 2010. No April Fools Day prank.

There....stuck my neck out with my best guess.

[oldfantom]

OK...here's some anticipation...

I anticipate a new HD TIVO unit for DirecTV that contains a 1TB hard drive, two 1GB ethernet connection network support, no OTA support, but support for 4 concurrent HD tuners, and a GUI that is more similar to DirecTV's base user interface at that time than different. (in other words, I expect the new planned UI for all the HRx DVRs will also be released about that same time).
.

I am not so sure this is anticipation as much as wishing. 4 tuners? I guess a Terabyte would make sense given four tuners. Otherwise I am not sure I would anticipate them more than doubling the storage space.

It sounds like you are describing the whole house box and not a TIVO DVR. This is a legitimate question and not sarcasm - Did I miss something in an earlier thread where the TIVO box is linked to whole house? That would be cool.

[LarryFlowers]

OK...here's some anticipation...

I anticipate a new HD TIVO unit for DirecTV that contains a 1TB hard drive, two 1GB ethernet connection network support, no OTA support, but support for 4 concurrent HD tuners, and a GUI that is more similar to DirecTV's base user interface at that time than different. (in other words, I expect the new planned UI for all the HRx DVRs will also be released about that same time).

Launch date - about April 1 2010. No April Fools Day prank.

There....stuck my neck out with my best guess.


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol:

!rolling!rolling!rolling

[hdtvfan0001]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol:

!rolling!rolling!rolling
Knew that one wouldn't last long....:D

I just figured I'd give the optimists something to chew on for a few pages of posts...;)

[Jeremy W]

Is it still to be 1st half of 2010?
I remember hearing it was pushed back to the 2nd half, can't remember if that was an official announcement or a rumor though.

[Movieman]

I'm not 100% sure, but I really do not think that built-in OTA will be included this time around.

I know but we can always wish. But the 4 tuners would be awesome.

[DogLover]

I am not so sure this is anticipation as much as wishing. 4 tuners? I guess a Terabyte would make sense given four tuners. Otherwise I am not sure I would anticipate them more than doubling the storage space.
...

The HR22's and HR23's have 500G hard drives.

[Jhon69]

Is it still to be 1st half of 2010? I want to upgrade 2 receivers to HD-DVR's and I hate to use up my "hearts" and a contract extension on the HR2X series if Tivos are coming out.


That's the last I heard something keeps telling me that we may see it at CES 2010.;)

[HoTat2]

I know but we can always wish. But the 4 tuners would be awesome.

As a feature for a whole home DVR solution perhaps. But for a single DVR to one television I really don't see it as practical particularly given the vast number of SWiMLNB installations nowadays.

Imagine half of your available tuners taken up by a one room DVR. :eek2:

[ntwrkd]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3475/3972852881_432d22f939.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3457/3973620558_a4d0c4e73c.jpg

Yup, That's an old R10 still workin' in my bedroom!

[ATARI]

That's the last I heard something keeps telling me that we may see it at CES 2010.;)

If it doesn't make a showing at CES in January, then I would very much doubt we would see it available in Q1 2010.

[Shades228]

I anticipate a news release saying Q1 10 on the 3rd quarter Tivo call and nothing about it on the DirecTV call. I anticipate a "Soon" news release about the end of February. I also anticipate more complaining about 50 SL limits a long with people missing the pop corn sounds and the buddy jesus buttons.

[baldrick5]

hopefully the new DirecTivo HD has something even standalone Tivo's don't have and pretty much every other DVR do have: a red dot (or something similar) in the listing for a program that you have scheduled to record in the guide to remind you that the upcoming program is scheduled to record......

also, hopefully the eSATA external storage isn't limited to only overpriced "Tivo Certified" external hard drives (like current standalone tivo's) and hopefully the external drives are IN ADDITION TO rather than INSTEAD OF the internal hard drive (like current HR2X's)

also, i hope it has a fully HD 16:9 GUI and all or most of the goodies from the standalone version (Netflix Watch Instantly, Amazon VOD etc.)

[hdtvfan0001]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3475/3972852881_432d22f939.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3457/3973620558_a4d0c4e73c.jpg

Yup, That's an old R10 still workin' in my bedroom!
GEEZ...I sure hope not....mine has been sitting in a box in the closet for quite a long time.

It's past the boating season...so I don't need an anchor at the moment...:D

I have higher expectations for the next generation TIVObox.

[dennisj00]

As a strong Tivo fan in the past, I'm perfectly happy with the current HR2x boxes. My Tivos were all Sonys so I never used the peanut remote and transitioned to the HR remote very quickly. I never liked the peanut remote but I also don't like remotes that I'm not use to when I visit friends.

I did like the Tivo Guide but I don't use the guide that frequently now.

Another consideration, by the time it comes out a 2TB drive may be standard. 1TBs are already under $100.

[gfrang]

My HR23 is fine, had a sd tivo in the past it was ok but i like the HR better. Double play seems to work fine but it isn't something i will use much,my idea of sports is like Isle of Man TT . So if i stay with Directtv i will keep the HR.

[anywhereanytime]

Sorry, new to BDSTalk forum, but just spoke to DTV retentions and said we were going to cancel after 14 years with DirecTV and she said why? I replied that we had 2 TiVos and we needed to upgrade to HD ... to which she replied, well we are going to have TiVo in Jan 2010.

I said, that's been a "rumor" for far too long and how sure are you ... to which she said we have "official word".

TERRIFIC FORUM - been with AVS forever

[Stuart Sweet]

To the poster here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=166188

who said that DIRECTV is claiming a firm date of January 2010, I would find this quite surprising.

[anywhereanytime]

From DirecTV retentions supervisor from my conversation with them YESTERDAY (10-4-2009) - I didn't get a name but they said that "THEY, i.e. "retentions" HAD official word otherwise she couldn't tell me that. When I asked for more details, she said that's all they had for now but should have more info coming shortly.

I am NOT currently under contract and refused to sign up for 2 years unless I knew for certain ... so she said my account would be noted.

When I asked about "upgrading current" HD receivers, she said that there would be "new models" but didn't know about upgading current models - told me, "wink, wink" to try to get HR23 model but they could NOT gurantee, and suggested Best Buy or other outlets.

Oh yes, she said to I could also try and find R22 units "which were recently SOFTWARE UPGRADED to 100 hours of HD, and very few people know about it yet"! The Best Buy people told me that there is NO WAY since that unit is only 100 hours in SD.

Any other questions, I'd be glad to pursue.


Scott

[dorfd1]

Synopsis of common arguments: (in other words, this ground's already been trodden, do we have to go there again?)


Many people like the TiVo interface, especially the list guide.
Many people are equally fond of the DIRECTV interface.
Many people think that TiVos are easier for them to use.
Many people think that DIRECTV DVRs are easier for them to use.
Standalone TiVo devices have many features that are appealing to people.
No guarantee has been made that any feature from a standalone TiVo will make it to the DIRECTV TiVo.
The new device will run on DIRECTV hardware, although we don't know how that will work (we have some ideas).
TiVo, Inc. will develop the software for the device and seems to be solely responsible for the user experience.


When you mean the device will run on directv hardware, whould that be similar to comcast's tivo service. with comcast tivo you call and they initate a software download on your motorola dvr and your dvr will be running tivo.

[Doug Brott]

From DirecTV retentions supervisor from my conversation with them YESTERDAY (10-4-2009) - I didn't get a name but they said that "THEY, i.e. "retentions" HAD official word otherwise she couldn't tell me that. When I asked for more details, she said that's all they had for now but should have more info coming shortly.

I am NOT currently under contract and refused to sign up for 2 years unless I knew for certain ... so she said my account would be noted.

When I asked about "upgrading current" HD receivers, she said that there would be "new models" but didn't know about upgading current models - told me, "wink, wink" to try to get HR23 model but they could NOT gurantee, and suggested Best Buy or other outlets.

Oh yes, she said to I could also try and find R22 units "which were recently SOFTWARE UPGRADED to 100 hours of HD, and very few people know about it yet"! The Best Buy people told me that there is NO WAY since that unit is only 100 hours in SD.

Any other questions, I'd be glad to pursue.


Scott

Scott,

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Jan 2010 is a pipe dream. Maybe later in Q1 as I've not seen anything yet to totally dispute that.

As for the R22, it includes a 320GB HDD so will only go up to 50 hours of HD. Whoever said 100 hrs of HD (MPEG4) was mistaken.

[anywhereanytime]

No pipe dream - as I said, I GAVE UP tracking this whole TiVo debacle at the beginning of 2009, my last hope was that someone would BUY TiVo and make them whole again ... so I am elated that it "still "MAY HAPPEN in early 2010". We are using Microsoft Vista/Windows 7 Media Center and have been since 2003 - over 500 hours of recordings ... but that whole DirecTV "relationship" is on ice and I hate cable ... so I can wait a while longer!

Now that I recall, as I have gotten pretty good with talking to "retentions" people over the years - when I floated that I have been "solicited aggressively" by DISH "for retention deal leverage" (I hate DISH personally compared to DTV) to the DTV retention person, she was "quick to mention" as to whether I had heard about the lawsuits with TiVO and DISH ... and THAT is why DirecTV is NOT being sued!

Basically, she said that DirecTV WILL have a TiVO version in Jan 2010 ... but what's a month or two after all of these YEARS?

PS Latest "rumor" is that Verizon is sniffing around to "buy DTV" - and ATT as well - now would't that be interesting, ugly IF ATT for me!

[Jeremy W]

Latest "rumor" is that Verizon is sniffing around to "buy DTV" - and ATT as well - now would't that be interesting, ugly IF ATT for me!
That's being discussed here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=165637

[Ken_F]

I remember hearing it was pushed back to the 2nd half, can't remember if that was an official announcement or a rumor though.TiVo's CEO recently stated that the new DirecTiVo was on schedule for "early 2010."

Don't expect the new DirecTiVo software to ship in January, but do expect to see it in 1Q 2010. A wider beta is much closer than some may think.

Expect to see the same new hardware platform available with the customer's choice of the DirecTV or TiVo software. Expect both to feature similar multi-room implementations using MoCA (networking over coax) and DTCP-IP. Expect both to feature responsive HD UIs and revamped EPGs. Don't expect the new TiVo software to closely mirror past/existing TiVos.

Expect the new DVR platform to run circles around the existing HR2x series when it comes to performance / responsiveness.

[Doug Brott]

Now that I recall, as I have gotten pretty good with talking to "retentions" people over the years - when I floated that I have been "solicited aggressively" by DISH "for retention deal leverage" (I hate DISH personally compared to DTV) to the DTV retention person, she was "quick to mention" as to whether I had heard about the lawsuits with TiVO and DISH ... and THAT is why DirecTV is NOT being sued!

Basically, she said that DirecTV WILL have a TiVO version in Jan 2010 ... but what's a month or two after all of these YEARS?

TiVo and DIRECTV have had a non-litigation agreement for many years now .. THAT is why DIRECTV is not being sued ..

The most recent re-negotiated agreement included the right for TiVo to create a new DIRECTV based TiVo system. This is what this whole thread is about. The original announcement was in early September 2008.

[Doug Brott]

TiVo's CEO recently stated that the new DirecTiVo was on schedule for "early 2010."

Don't expect the new DirecTiVo software to ship in January, but do expect to see it in 1Q 2010. A wider beta is much closer than some may think.

A "wider" beta implies that there is a narrow beta now. Personally, I haven't seen anything to indicate that TiVo has even reached that point yet. Certainly they should be getting close if the new TiVo needs to hit the streets by March 31, 2009 (to make Q1).

[anywhereanytime]

TiVo's CEO recently stated that the new DirecTiVo was on schedule for "early 2010."

Don't expect the new DirecTiVo software to ship in January, but do expect to see it in 1Q 2010. A wider beta is much closer than some may think.

Expect to see the same new hardware platform available with the customer's choice of the DirecTV or TiVo software. Expect both to feature similar multi-room implementations using MoCA (networking over coax) and DTCP-IP. Expect both to feature responsive HD UIs and revamped EPGs. Don't expect the new TiVo software to closely mirror past/existing TiVos.

Expect the new DVR platform to run circles around the existing HR2x series when it comes to performance / responsiveness.

GREAT INFO Ken_F ... This triggered "another comment that retentions told me" when I asked "WHY should I sign up NOW, rather then WAIT" since I did NOT want to get "stuck" with old equipment - even thought he HR23 was new - and she said something about "an upgrade path that may include a trade-up program like they did in the past?"

What type of "trade-up program" - do you know whether ANY of the current models "WILL be upgradable via "software" ONLY?

[Stuart Sweet]

When you mean the device will run on directv hardware, whould that be similar to comcast's tivo service. with comcast tivo you call and they initate a software download on your motorola dvr and your dvr will be running tivo.

I do not expect that you will be able to change an existing HR2x to a TiVo but I'll admit that I'm not 100% sure. It's just, knowing what I know, doing it over the satellite would be very very difficult if not impossible.

[Sixto]

Certainly been much more "chatter" re: TiVo beta in last week or so.

[Stuart Sweet]

...and it's impossible to know if that all arises from one event: apparently those who signed up to be considered for the TiVo beta were asked to make sure their contact information was up to date. That may simply be an automated reminder.

[anywhereanytime]

Is it still possible to sign up for the Beta?

[mp11]

[QUOTE]just saying that all the features you get on a standalong Tivo should be on the DirecTV box or I can see folks not being very happy.

No way does Directv want the new DirecTivo to have all the features the standalone Tivo has. That would cause their DVR to look skimpy. That is very obvious. Still though...too bad Tivo cant supply their own box with satellite tuner. :(

[Stuart Sweet]

It's not a matter of just supplying the box. The HR2x series is actually quite similar to a TiVoHD in the hardware that matters. It's a matter, as always, of protecting the rights of the people who supply the content.

I don't blame DIRECTV for acting to protect their digital signal to the extent that it's allowed by law.

[bonscott87]

3 months to CES. We'll see what Tivo shows and then we'll see how far they are and how soon in 2010 it might be done.

[Stuart Sweet]

Of course, I'm still waiting to see the Dish VIP922 from this year's CES, and let's not even discuss the several products shown at DIRECTV CES booths in past years that never materialized.

[Sixto]

I'm keeping an open mind.

The current HR2x UI on a box with 2x-3x the performance would be perfect for this household, especially if they throw in an HD GUI.

But then again, if they take the Series3 with the current TiVo Desktop functionality, TiVo2Go, and add PIG, and support the tactile TiVo Glo well then maybe it could also be impressive. (most of this may be very unlikely but it sure will be exciting to find out :)).

We'll see ...

[hdtvfan0001]

Of course, I'm still waiting to see the Dish VIP922 from this year's CES, and let's not even discuss the several products shown at DIRECTV CES booths in past years that never materialized.
True.

Neat ideas and concepts don't always surface to the mainstream.

In the case of the next DirecTV Tivobox....there seems to be nothing to firm up a release date other than "some time in the first half of 2010".

Speculation abounds...but we're all really in "wait and see" mode.

[Sixto]

In the case of the next DirecTV Tivobox....there seems to be nothing to firm up a release date other than "some time in the first half of 2010".CEO: "early 2010" ... whatever that means.

[hdtvfan0001]

CEO: "early 2010" ... whatever that means.
Translation....not late 2010. :D

[Stuart Sweet]

Then again he might mean "in the early 2010s," which could mean anytime before 2015.

[Gunnyman]

Probably unrelated, but a couple of weeks ago I got an Email from Tivo asking me to update my user profile on their beta program site. I enrolled as a beta tester for TiVo some time ago. Again it probably means nothing but it IS a fun little data point to add to this discussion.

[Stuart Sweet]

That's what I'm saying... all the recent chatter over the new TiVo product could be due to this one e-mail, which could simply be a timed reminder that has nothing to do with development.

[jfalkingham]

I anticipate that this product will never see the light of day.

Like DLB on the DIRECTV DVR's?

[scottjf8]

I can't wait for this... I absolutely hate the HR21 that I have, and the HR20 isn't a whole lot better. Response on this device is SO sluggish, and I'm tired of getting shows canceled recording due to stupid things like "no longer in the guide" or whatever. It IS in the guide, I see it.

[Jeremy W]

Like DLB on the DIRECTV DVR's?
Hey, crap happens.

[CJTE]

I can't wait for this... I absolutely hate the HR21 that I have, and the HR20 isn't a whole lot better. Response on this device is SO sluggish, and I'm tired of getting shows canceled recording due to stupid things like "no longer in the guide" or whatever. It IS in the guide, I see it.

And you expect the TiVO to be faster than the HR-20.
Really?
Have you used a TiVO recently??

I've still got my HR10-250. I'll take my HR20's over that any day.

[Ken_F]

And you expect the TiVO to be faster than the HR-20.
Really?
Have you used a TiVO recently??

I've still got my HR10-250. I'll take my HR20's over that any day.Have you used a recent TiVo?

The HR10-250 hardware was designed in 2002-2003 for release in October, 2003, but release was delayed until June, 2004 to address various issues. That makes the HR10-250 nearly 5.5 years old.

The HR20/HR21/HR22/HR23 represent an entirely new generation of hardware with significantly faster processors. The standalone TivoHD uses the same processor as the HR21/HR22/HR23 and it is much more responsive than those products.

DirecTV's next-generation DVR -- shipping in the next six months -- will feature at least double the CPU performance of the existing products. On this hardware, the TiVo software and the DirecTV software should both run circles around the HR20.

[Stuart Sweet]

I am curious where you got the information you put in the last line of your post.

[hobiecatter]

Have you used a recent TiVo?

The HR10-250 hardware was designed in 2002-2003 for release in October, 2003, but release was delayed until June, 2004 to address various issues. That makes the HR10-250 nearly 5.5 years old.

The HR20/HR21/HR22/HR23 represent an entirely new generation of hardware with significantly faster processors. The standalone TivoHD uses the same processor as the HR21/HR22/HR23 and it is much more responsive than those products.

DirecTV's next-generation DVR -- shipping in the next six months -- will feature at least double the CPU performance of the existing products. On this hardware, the TiVo software and the DirecTV software should both run circles around the HR20.


next 6 months? where did you hear that?

edit: sorry didn't see Stuart asked too.

[sigma1914]

I am curious where you got the information you put in the last line of your post.

And where he gets all this this info:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2239751#post2239751
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2232236#post2232236

[Sixto]

Assuming that any follow-on Broadcom chip is selected, the results should be exactly as stated.

BCM7400B (3/2007 - 1000 DMIPS) ... BCM7335 (1/2008 - 950 DMIPS) ... the latest BCM7342 (9/2009) ... they all blow the doors off the BCM7401 (8/2005 - 450 DMIPS).

Three assumptions: 1) there will be a new box, 2) it will contain a later Broadcom processor, and 3) it ships in the next 6 months.

All seem very reasonable assumptions.

And I always respect Ken_F's opinion, and expertise. :)

[whitepelican]

And you expect the TiVO to be faster than the HR-20.
Really?
Have you used a TiVO recently??

I've still got my HR10-250. I'll take my HR20's over that any day.

I use HR10-250s exclusively now. Running recent software versions, they are much, much faster than the HR21-100 and (to a lesser extent) the HR20-100 that they replaced. The HR21-100 was the most infuriating piece of electronic equipment that I ever used due to it's slowness. And those HR10-250s were designed and built, what, about 5 years earlier than the HR2x series? I've never seen any issues with slowness on standalone Series 2 or 3 Tivos either.

[hdtvfan0001]

I suspect the new Tivobox will have updated internal organs in it, as well as a larger hard drive....those would be reasonable assumptions, merely based on it being newer to start with.

What we do know is that the hardware will be commissioned / built per DirecTV, and the firmware provided from Tivo.

Anything else is speculation....but that can be fun too. :D

[Alan Gordon]

I use HR10-250s exclusively now. Running recent software versions, they are much, much faster than the HR21-100 and (to a lesser extent) the HR20-100 that they replaced. The HR21-100 was the most infuriating piece of electronic equipment that I ever used due to it's slowness. And those HR10-250s were designed and built, what, about 5 years earlier than the HR2x series? I've never seen any issues with slowness on standalone Series 2 or 3 Tivos either.

Though my HR10-250 can sometimes be faster than my HR20-700/HR23-700, my TiVo Series 3 is, more times than not, faster than my HR2x series DVRs.

DirecTV's next-generation DVR -- shipping in the next six months -- will feature at least double the CPU performance of the existing products. On this hardware, the TiVo software and the DirecTV software should both run circles around the HR20.

Fascinating...

~Alan

[kiljoy]

People talk about the slowness of the older TiVos, but I must say I was never bothered by the slowness of the DVR80s I had. The units never got unresponsive, and remote presses always registered and if they got queued (rarely) they all were processed. The biggest difference in the slowness of my HR22s compared to the DVR80s is in the fact that the HR22s aren't consistent. The DVR80s always worked at the same pace regardless of what was happening whereas the HR22s sometimes respond quickly, sometimes not, sometimes not at all. On the whole the HR22 is quicker, but in practice the fact that it doesn't always work at the same pace means that I'll repress a key when in fact it was queued or I'll wait for something that won't happen. I know the receiver got the command because of the light, but the responsiveness varies.

I'd rather have a consistent machine than a sometimes quick, sometimes not machine.

I do want to note that the HR22s aren't unuseable because of it, but it's not as smooth as the DVR80s were where I could hit a bunch of commands in a row and just know that every command would register and work properly even if I managed to press keys faster than the machine could respond.

Tony

[Jhon69]

Hey, crap happens.


So will the new 2010 HD DirecTivo.;):D

[Doug Brott]

So will the new 2010 HD DirecTivo.;):D

Allegedly ;) We still haven't seen it yet :)

[SParker]

Will these be owned or leased receivers?

[Stuart Sweet]

It's way too early to know.

[whitepelican]

Will these be owned or leased receivers?

I'd be willing to bet they will be.

[Doug Brott]

Will these be owned or leased receivers?

I'd be willing to bet they will be.

Is that a sucker bet? :p

[pinballfan]

Has anyone used a Comcast DVR that is now running TiVo software? Does it use the old remote, or a new one?

I used to have one of the Comcast/Tivo boxes. It had a custom Comcast peanut remote. It was similar to the other various peanut remotes. They had a few extra buttons, eg "On Demand", A (yellow triangle), B(blue square), C(red circle), and D(green diamond).

-- Doug

[CJTE]

Will these be owned or leased receivers?

Back when I first heard about the agreement, it seemed that these units would be in minor-production. Meaning there would be hundreds of them available, but not as available as the other units running DirecTV's firmware.
That would make me believe that these units would be more of a niche item that the consumer would have to pay more for and therefore own (like whichever HDDVR unit has a 'PRO' brother).
However, I have absolutely no solid evidence of any of that.

[Jeremy W]

Back when I first heard about the agreement, it seemed that these units would be in minor-production.
But now, all information points to the Tivo software running on the same hardware as the DirecTV software. So the hardware will be mass produced.

[CJTE]

So who thinks DirecTV will be sending out Dual Boot units?! hahahahahahaha!

Or better yet, can I run Tivo on an eSATA HDD and leave DirecTV on the internal HDD?

[kiljoy]

So who thinks DirecTV will be sending out Dual Boot units?! hahahahahahaha!

Or better yet, can I run Tivo on an eSATA HDD and leave DirecTV on the internal HDD?If there's one TiVo feature I really want it's the way they handle external storage. If you're unfamiliar, they "marry" the eSATA to the unit and then all of the HDD space is available, internal and external. None of this quasi-eSATA support the HR2xs have. So no, I definitely do not want dual-boot (which would never happen anyway), I want the ability to cheaply make a 2-3TB machine by just plugging in an eSATA.

Tony

[dodge boy]

Hey, crap happens.

Wouldn't the correct term be, "Feces occurs"?

[Steve]

I used to have one of the Comcast/Tivo boxes. It had a custom Comcast peanut remote. It was similar to the other various peanut remotes. They had a few extra buttons, eg "On Demand", A (yellow triangle), B(blue square), C(red circle), and D(green diamond). Interesting. If they are going to provide a "peanut", I suppose they'll need an ACTIVE button :rolleyes:, and a RED for SCOREGUIDE. I guess the need to add the other color buttons will depend on how TiVo decides to implement the current color options.

[Ken_F]

But now, all information points to the Tivo software running on the same hardware as the DirecTV software. So the hardware will be mass produced.During conference calls, TiVo said their software was for the "new DirecTV Plus DVR platform." That certainly suggests that it will use the same hardware.

What's not known is whether it will be possible to switch from one software to the other. TiVo remains ambiguous on that subject, with comments like, "the software will be available to every customer that buys the DirecTV Plus DVR" (paraphrase). That statement can have several meanings.

[Stuart Sweet]

What I do know is that there are very large hurdles that would make it very difficult to change an HR2x to a TiVo on-site. So large that I am not sure that you could get past them.

[whitepelican]

Does Tivo have any other units where the OS actually runs off a chip instead of the drive? Wouldn't that have to be the case if they were to use the same hardware as the HR2x (or HR3x or whatever)?

[Hdhead]

Wouldn't the correct term be, "Feces occurs"?

Nope, "Dung arises" :grin:

[dodge boy]

During conference calls, TiVo said their software was for the "new DirecTV Plus DVR platform." That certainly suggests that it will use the same hardware.

What's not known is whether it will be possible to switch from one software to the other. TiVo remains ambiguous on that subject, with comments like, "the software will be available to every customer that buys the DirecTV Plus DVR" (paraphrase). That statement can have several meanings.

Tivo's software would have to be written in such away to make it compatable with D's hardware.... So I do not think it would be the "same" software they currently write.

[hdtvfan0001]

During conference calls, TiVo said their software was for the "new DirecTV Plus DVR platform." That certainly suggests that it will use the same hardware.
Yup....and "new DirecTV Plus DVR platform" can indeed mean current or future hardware.

[dodge boy]

Nope, "Dung arises" :grin:

I don't want to be around when the excrement hits the rotary oscillator

or this post could be an exorcise in bovine scatology.... :D

[Tom Robertson]

I don't want to be around when the excrement hits the rotary oscillator

or this post could be an exorcise in bovine scatology.... :D

Ok, I think we can stop the scat crap. Let's get back to the TiVo in 2010 topic. :backtotop.

Thanks,
Tom

[Doug Brott]

Does Tivo have any other units where the OS actually runs off a chip instead of the drive? Wouldn't that have to be the case if they were to use the same hardware as the HR2x (or HR3x or whatever)?

I'm sure there are ways to connect the dots here. What I do see as being an almost certainty is that this version of the DIRECTiVo will be much less hackable.

[whitepelican]

I'm sure there are ways to connect the dots here. What I do see as being an almost certainty is that this version of the DIRECTiVo will be much less hackable.

There would really be no reason to hack it if it has all the goodies of a Series 3 Tivo. There's really no good reason to hack the Series 3's at this point.

[Stuart Sweet]

I guess it has gone without saying long enough... there's no guarantee that a DIRECTV-based TiVo would have any of the interactive features of a standalone.

[Jeremy W]

What I do know is that there are very large hurdles that would make it very difficult to change an HR2x to a TiVo on-site. So large that I am not sure that you could get past them.
Obviously changing an HR2x is essentially out of the question. But I was referring to an HR3x(?) which was designed for both platforms from the start.

[Stuart Sweet]

You're hypothesizing, or you know something that I have no reason to believe you know.

[Jeremy W]

You're hypothesizing
I thought that was pretty clear? :confused:

[Stuart Sweet]

Obviously changing an HR2x is essentially out of the question. But I was referring to an HR3x(?) which was designed for both platforms from the start.

Perhaps you may wish to phrase it more like, "I was referring to an HR3x(?) which may be designed for both platforms from the start." The funny thing about forum posts is, one statement gets misunderstood, leading to another getting overstated, and the next thing you know, everybody "knows" something that simply isn't true.

For the record, I was told by a very reliable source that the same reference design was used for both HR2x and S3TiVo/TivoHD families. This source would have every reason to know that. It's been shown through pictures of the motherboards that many of the key components are identical.

So, you could almost say that HR2x DVRs were designed for both platforms at the start. Almost.

[Jeremy W]

Perhaps you may wish to phrase it more like, "I was referring to an HR3x(?) which may be designed for both platforms from the start."
I see your point, but that's just not how I speak. When I'm talking about a hypothetical product, I just assume that everyone knows that I'm speaking about hypothetical features.

[Stuart Sweet]

Assumptions are easy to make, and it's just as easy to misquote someone when you think they've got privileged information.

[CJTE]

Assumptions are easy to make, and it's just as easy to misquote someone when you think they've got privileged information.

Because who knows who knows what around here!!!!
hahaha!!

I'm curious if you can elaborate on the hurdles that you were referring to above or if that digs too deep into the 'confidentiality agreement'

[Drew2k]

Random thought and question: The previous generations of TiVo DVRs required drives to be pre-formatted with TiVo software before they could be recognized, while the current HR2x DVR will format a new drive, making the HR2x easier the product for users to increase their storage. Will the new DIRECTV with TiVo HD DVR support plug-and-play eSATA drives?

[Jeremy W]

Random thought and question: The previous generations of TiVo DVRs required drives to be pre-formatted with TiVo software before they could be recognized, while the current HR2x DVR will format a new drive, making the HR2x easier the product for users to increase their storage. Will the new DIRECTV with TiVo HD DVR support plug-and-play eSATA drives?
The current Tivos don't require any special formatting, so I can't imagine why a new DirecTivo would.

[Brennok]

The current Tivos don't require any special formatting, so I can't imagine why a new DirecTivo would.

They don't require any special formatting but you do have to use something like WinMFS to copy the image versus just dropping a new drive in the Tivo.

[Doug Brott]

It's unclear what drive-spec features the DIRECTiVo will have, but sure, if the TiVo puts the firmware on-chip like the HR2x, don't see any reason why they couldn't include some sort of format routine.

[Jeremy W]

They don't require any special formatting but you do have to use something like WinMFS to copy the image versus just dropping a new drive in the Tivo.
I was referring to the current Tivos with eSATA.

[Brennok]

I was referring to the current Tivos with eSATA.

Ahh I missed the esata part. I thought he was talking about being able to just replace the internal drive and have Tivo reinstall their software versus copying the image. Isn't that how the DTV's HD DVRs handle drive replacement?

I haven't played with esata on my Tivo HDs since I just upgraded them internally to 1tb and have it set to copy shows to my PC if they are still on the Tivo after so many hours/days.

[alwayscool]

i just want 2 b a beta tester for the new TiVo so i can get 1 now! i can't wait 4 the new 1 2 b released!:D

[Jeremy W]

i just want 2 b a beta tester for the new TiVo so i can get 1 now! i can't wait 4 the new 1 2 b released!:D
to be one for one to be

Wow.

[trainman]

I'm sure the TiVo and DirecTV engineers are already looking forward to reading those tester reports.

[jal]

I received an email from TIVO a few weeks ago. It was a survey for potential beta testers, asking me how many HRxs and hr10-250's I was presently using, and asking for updated contact info. I haven't heard anything since, but I would really enjoy beta testing the new HD-Directivo.

[SParker]

I would really enjoy beta testing the new HD-Directivo.

Same here!

[hdtvfan0001]

It's unclear what drive-spec features the DIRECTiVo will have, but sure, if the TiVo puts the firmware on-chip like the HR2x, don't see any reason why they couldn't include some sort of format routine.
That would make alot of sense on multiple fronts...updating and enhancing in the future, as well as the flexibility to make "changes" as needed.

[Jeremy W]

That would make alot of sense on multiple fronts...updating and enhancing in the future, as well as the flexibility to make "changes" as needed.
It would also require vast changes to their architecture, unless they want to put rather large amounts of flash memory into each device. I forget how big the HR2x software is, but it's an order of magnitude smaller than Tivo's software.

[Movieman]

Even though I now have 2 DVR's giving me 4 tuners today I was using DP and a recording came on. It required DP to be turned off for an hour which was ok cause I was stuck on one game but with 4 tuners on one STB (assuming this would be part of the new Tivo) would have been nice to keep watching my games and have the recording on the background. I also could have cancelled the recording and just record in the bedroom DVR but dont like watching tv there much.

[Chip Moody]

Anticipating...

...especially now that my S2 Tivo is waiting for it's 3rd power supply. :(

(Yes, I use a SD Tivo to record my HD programming. Sue me.) :) There just was never enough benefit to going through the hassle of replacing what I already had for an HD DVR that DirecTV was going to make me lease. Getting one with a Tivo interface might be enough to push me over the edge though.

- Chip

[bonscott87]

There just was never enough benefit to going through the hassle of replacing what I already had for an HD DVR that DirecTV was going to make me lease. Getting one with a Tivo interface might be enough to push me over the edge though.

- Chip

LOL. And the new HD DirecTivo will be a lease too. Get over the lease thing, it's what DirecTV does and has done for going on 5 years now. :)

[dennisj00]

Anticipating...

...especially now that my S2 Tivo is waiting for it's 3rd power supply. :(

(Yes, I use a SD Tivo to record my HD programming. Sue me.) :) There just was never enough benefit to going through the hassle of replacing what I already had for an HD DVR that DirecTV was going to make me lease. Getting one with a Tivo interface might be enough to push me over the edge though.

- Chip

Plus I'd have to say you've missed an AWFUL lot of awesome HD programming. . .

[RCY]

Plus I'd have to say you've missed an AWFUL lot of awesome HD programming. . .

...or maybe he gets good OTA reception and gets 80% of everything he'd watch in HD for free.

In my case, I'd had 2 DTivos for the last 7+ years. One died in June, but I have a HTPC in the bedroom that I can get plenty of programming for use there. (LA area 30+ OTA stations) I've been commitment free for years now, and haven't seen a good enough deal offered to get me to add a HD DVR to re-up. (Best I've been offered is the $99 on website.) I'm hoping to get another couple of years out of our last SDTivo to make it to the next generation of D*s DVRs.

I won't pay an upcharge for a HD Dtivo, but I hope the alternative will make D* a bit more competitive when they come out with the HR3x.

[oldfantom]

I have only read a couple of pages of this 6 page thread. Are we still anticipating? I am. Just wanted to know if there is still a buzz.

[Steve]

I have only read a couple of pages of this 6 page thread. Are we still anticipating? I am. Just wanted to know if there is still a buzz.Since the public statements are now all saying 2010, I wonder if we'll see or hear more in January, at CES?

[Sixto]

Since the public statements are now all saying 2010, I wonder if we'll see or hear more in January, at CES?Assuming TiVo is at CES 2010, would be very surprised if unit not mentioned.

[ffemtreed]

how does one apply to become a beta tester?

[Movieman]

If you do a google search they have a site you can register to. They will ask you a series of questions relating to what type of media equipment you currently have. (satellite/cable, what STB you have now, etc.). From there I guess you have to wait to be contacted.

[Drew2k]

I truly wish the TiVotees good luck in having a new MPEG4 DIRECTV TiVo DVR next year ... if one fell my way I'd be happy to use it, test it and report my findings, but I feel quite content without. You most often see it with cars, phones and mp3 players, but I'm always amazed that anyone ever can love a product so much that anything else will never do. I had TiVo from 2003 to early this year and at one time had that "love" for it that many still have, but in 2007 I got my first HR20 and I haven't looked back. I'm now "in love" with my HR2X and can't see me going back to the TiVo guy... but I won't ever close the door all the way! :p

[Tom Robertson]

I truly wish the TiVotees good luck in having a new MPEG4 DIRECTV TiVo DVR next year ... if one fell my way I'd be happy to use it, test it and report my findings, but I feel quite content without. You most often see it with cars, phones and mp3 players, but I'm always amazed that anyone ever can love a product so much that anything else will never do. I had TiVo from 2003 to early this year and at one time had that "love" for it that many still have, but in 2007 I got my first HR20 and I haven't looked back. I'm now "in love" with my HR2X and can't see me going back to the TiVo guy... but I won't ever close the door all the way! :p
Well said. :)

I loved "TiVo" too... but it turns out I really loved the DVR experience for both recording and live watching, not the particular brand. Thankfully, I do understand people can love brands for many reasons. So I also hope the TiVotees (great word!) have a happy experience with a new DIRECTIVO. :)

Cheers,
Tom

[tuff bob]

If you do a google search they have a site you can register to. They will ask you a series of questions relating to what type of media equipment you currently have. (satellite/cable, what STB you have now, etc.). From there I guess you have to wait to be contacted.

Can you give me a hint? I can't wait for a working HD-DVR :D

[Stuart Sweet]

Assuming TiVo is at CES 2010, would be very surprised if unit not mentioned.

Given TiVo's somewhat embarrassing showing at CES 2009, I'm not sure that's a given. They were in an out-of-the-way meeting room with nothing new to talk about except the ability to order Domino's Pizza with the remote.

I hope they have more to talk about at CES 2010 but they haven't seemed to focus on the DIRECTV box a lot in their marketing in 2009.

[Sixto]

Given TiVo's somewhat embarrassing showing at CES 2009, I'm not sure that's a given. They were in an out-of-the-way meeting room with nothing new to talk about except the ability to order Domino's Pizza with the remote.

I hope they have more to talk about at CES 2010 but they haven't seemed to focus on the DIRECTV box a lot in their marketing in 2009.Yep, with the TiVo CEO highlighting DirecTV recently, and commenting "early 2010" several times, figured 2010 CES seems near "early 2010". :)

[celticpride]

I just hope its not 4th quarter 2010 or i could be gone by then to fios. or i'll just buy a hd-tivo i also have a feeling tivo will come out with a new hd box for cable by then also.

[sigma1914]

I just hope its not 4th quarter 2010 or i could be gone by then to fios. or i'll just buy a hd-tivo i also have a feeling tivo will come out with a new hd box for cable by then also.

No more of you Celtics in HD through LP unless it's the 1 HD game they do that night.

[Stuart Sweet]

Yep, with the TiVo CEO highlighting DirecTV recently, and commenting "early 2010" several times, figured 2010 CES seems near "early 2010". :)

I just hope for the sake of those here that "early 2010" is correct and "the early 2010s" isn't...

[I WANT MORE]

No more of you Celtics in HD through LP unless it's the 1 HD game they do that night.

Love your avatar. :lol:

[pfp]

:lol:

I may be in the minority, but I'm one of those users who loved both the "peanut" and the TiVo-style GUIDE. :shrug:

then that would be a minority of two!

[oldfantom]

I just hope for the sake of those here that "early 2010" is correct and "the early 2010s" isn't...

You think there is a possibility they will go Duke Nukem Forever on us?

As with many things, I find myself having fond memories of an old product. Bad memories of a new product launch. And a nostalgic desire to go back to the good times.

I guess this is a lot like Vista. Maybe it is a better software product now than it was when I installed it. But that bad startup made me a Mac guy after about 20 years of Microsoft OS ownership.

The way I see it, the HR was not a good product when I got it. Still has a lot of little nuisance issues. And the slow roll out of features to make it better has been unsatisfying. I still think the history feature is a joke. Working with recordings is not as easy as it should be. Having to create boolean search stings for season passes to get around 50 season pass limitations is ridiculous (and don't get me started on the new bug with that "feature"). Giving me the double play this late in the game is a little too late. To give credit, it does record about 95% of what it should now. And that is a better percentage than what we used to get.

I know that D* could care less. After all, they get theirs no matter which box I choose. But I am switching when the Tivo box appears. The slow march of the HR boxes to adequacy is just not good enough.

[ATARI]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq_5QZDpY1Y

[Jeremy W]

You think there is a possibility they will go Duke Nukem Forever on us?
They've already delayed it once (twice?) and have released zero details about it.

[oldfantom]

They've already delayed it once (twice?) and have released zero details about it.

Well, if it drags on for 12 years before being killed....

Two delays with an update of sometime in early 2010 is not quite to that level yet.

[Jeremy W]

Two delays with an update of sometime in early 2010 is not quite to that level yet.
Agreed. But they have started down that path.

[Chip Moody]

Umm. Hmm. Both HD receivers I have are leased, so I guess I'm already over the lease thing huh?

Sorry if you mis-read or I wasn't clear enough. I don't mind leasing another box. Right now I've got a leased receiver attached to my Tivo - I just would prefer to do a new lease with hardware running a Tivo UI than DirecTV's, that's all.

- Chip


LOL. And the new HD DirecTivo will be a lease too. Get over the lease thing, it's what DirecTV does and has done for going on 5 years now. :)

[HiDefGator]

I understand the anticipation. But after having owned more than one recently released DVR from Replay, Tivo, and Directv; I can wait a few months after they come out before getting one. Not sure I could put up with the wife complaining about buggy software again.

[bonscott87]

Umm. Hmm. Both HD receivers I have are leased, so I guess I'm already over the lease thing huh?

Sorry if you mis-read or I wasn't clear enough. I don't mind leasing another box. Right now I've got a leased receiver attached to my Tivo - I just would prefer to do a new lease with hardware running a Tivo UI than DirecTV's, that's all.

- Chip

My misunderstanding. Your post sounded like you were waiting for the HD DirecTivo so that you wouldn't have to lease an HR2x anymore, figuring you'd own the DirecTivo like in the old days. I was just pointing out that was probably not going to be the case, leases all around. My mistake. :)

[Doug Brott]

Yeah, while anything is possible, I would be very, very surprised if the new TiVo boxes were owned .. I expect DIRECTV to continue the lease arrangement as I believe it will be DIRECTV that is doing the distribution, not TiVo.

[codespy]

From the new DirecTV answer center:


We are working with TiVo to develop a new HD DVR. The details are still being determined, but for now we can tell you that the new receiver will have:

Access to over 130 HD channels
DIRECTV on DEMAND capability
TiVo's Universal Swivel Search
TiVo's KidZone
We expect the new receiver to launch in 2010 and we will provide more information as soon as it is available. To receive updates on the new TiVo HD DVR, sign up at http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/directv-signup.html.

Source: http://support.directv.com/app/home/search/1/session?CMP=EMC-MQ-SC&ATT=120-E6-ANC-091029final&m=

[bonscott87]

From the new DirecTV answer center:


We are working with TiVo to develop a new HD DVR. The details are still being determined, but for now we can tell you that the new receiver will have:

Access to over 130 HD channels
DIRECTV on DEMAND capability
TiVo's Universal Swivel Search
TiVo's KidZone
We expect the new receiver to launch in 2010 and we will provide more information as soon as it is available. To receive updates on the new TiVo HD DVR, sign up at http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/directv-signup.html.

Source: http://support.directv.com/app/home/search/1/session?CMP=EMC-MQ-SC&ATT=120-E6-ANC-091029final&m=

Thanks. Pretty much what was announced in the initial press release over a year ago so nothing new. But good to see it actually on their site.

[texasmoose]

I hope this new puppy has at least:

1) 4-TUNERS w/OTA capabilities
2) 1TB green-powered HD
3) True 16x9 HD UI

It would also be nice if it included the TivoToGo functionality, but i'm sure D* is scared of DRM ramifications.

[JayB]

I hope this new puppy has at least a 1TB green powered HD & 4 tuners on board with OTA capabilities & a true 16x9 HD UI!

And a pony - it's gotta have a pony! ;) (by which I mean it's highly unlikely - the 1TB and 4 tuners especially, and probably OTA IMO)

[wildbill129]

And a pony - it's gotta have a pony! ;)

:goodjob:Cheers to you for that one....that gave me a laugh!

[Stuart Sweet]

I hope this new puppy has at least a 1TB green powered HD & 4 tuners on board with OTA capabilities & a true 16x9 HD UI!

Of course anything is possible but I'd consider much of that to be highly, highly unlikely.

[ffemtreed]

Of course anything is possible but I'd consider much of that to be highly, highly unlikely.

why would any of that be unlikely???

1TB HD ????? that pretty easy. I would actually hope for a 2TB HD and only be happy with a 1TB. Anything less than 1TB on a new box is a disservice to the user.

HD GUI -- others are already kinda doing it, why would that be out of the question with a new cutting edge technology?

4 tuners --- Wasn't DTV already talking about making a home central box a couple of years ago? If it can be done there why not now? As far as OTA i'll I will say as long as it scans....LOL

I know it comes down to what price point DTV wants to match to implement any of this, but to say its highly highly unlikely to get any of that is far fetched. Its not like he he was asking for 4TB HD, Ability to record 10 shows at once with a 3D gui that you don't have to wear special glasses for.

[my1423]

Why not make it swm only and use 8 tuners on one cable? Can be done.

[usnret]

Hope that I can MRV between my Tivo HD and the D Tivo too :)

[Tom Robertson]

why would any of that be unlikely???

1TB HD ????? that pretty easy. I would actually hope for a 2TB HD and only be happy with a 1TB. Anything less than 1TB on a new box is a disservice to the user.

HD GUI -- others are already kinda doing it, why would that be out of the question with a new cutting edge technology?

4 tuners --- Wasn't DTV already talking about making a home central box a couple of years ago? If it can be done there why not now? As far as OTA i'll I will say as long as it scans....LOL

I know it comes down to what price point DTV wants to match to implement any of this, but to say its highly highly unlikely to get any of that is far fetched. Its not like he he was asking for 4TB HD, Ability to record 10 shows at once with a 3D gui that you don't have to wear special glasses for.

Don't expect anything in the new TiVos that aren't in the existing HD DVR's from DIRECTV. They will be on the same hardware.

[Jeremy W]

Hope that I can MRV between my Tivo HD and the D Tivo too :)
I have a feeling that DirecTV will require that to be the case.

[texasmoose]

Don't expect anything in the new TiVos that aren't in the existing HD DVR's from DIRECTV. They will be on the same hardware.

I've heard the new TiVo will have the next generation "Broadcom" chip, not like the one that's in the current HRxx/TiVo HD boxes. More comparable to the one that's featured in Dish's forthcoming VIP 922 unit.

[spec2]

Don't expect anything in the new TiVos that aren't in the existing HD DVR's from DIRECTV. They will be on the same hardware.

Unless DTV expects to phase out their DVRs and go back to TiVo exclusively. Keep in mind that the DTV DVR was the brainchild of Newscorp back when they owned DTV. The DTV DVRs have proven to be craptastic and I'm sure they have lost a few new subs so why not dump it for a proven winner like TiVo?

That said, I do expect the DTV TiVos to be dumbed down from the SA TiVos.

[Tom Robertson]

Fortunately the numbers do not support your premise. DIRECTV has gained more subs and more market share in the past 3 years. All on the HR series.

Have some subs left for TiVo waters elsewhere? Sure, we've seen a few posts about that. But all in all, that is a drop in the swimming pool. :)

I don't expect the HR family to go away at any time. Remember the TiVo units are expected to be an extra charge item. I'm not planning on paying extra for them. :)

Cheers,
Tom

[Steve]

I've heard the new TiVo will have the next generation "Broadcom" chip, not like the one that's in the current HRxx/TiVo HD boxes. More comparable to the one that's featured in Dish's forthcoming VIP 922 unit.According to the announcement last fall, the new DirecTiVo's will run on the same hardware as at least one of the HD DVR's. That could be an existing model or a new model. If a new model, the faster chip will benefit both platforms.

[Steve]

[...] Remember the TiVo units are expected to be an extra charge item. I'm not planning on paying extra for them. :)I wonder if those of us with "lifetime" service will have to pay any extra charges? If not, I'm leaning the same way as Tom. I'm happy with my 6 HR's, but it might be fun to have one DirecTiVo... just to play with. :)

[Ken_F]

I wonder if those of us with "lifetime" service will have to pay any extra charges? If not, I'm leaning the same way as Tom. I'm happy with my 6 HR's, but it might be fun to have one DirecTiVo... just to play with. :)Many HR2x owners will want to upgrade to the new DVR platform for reasons that will become obvious in several months. At that point, they'll have to decide whether they want the DirecTV or TiVo software.

[Steve]

Many HR2x owners will want to upgrade to the new DVR platform for reasons that will become obvious in several months. At that point, they'll have to decide whether they want the DirecTV or TiVo software.So you believe it will be "either/or", with no ability to have one or more of each, if that's what someone wants? Curious why. :)

[dhhaines]

Unless DTV expects to phase out their DVRs and go back to TiVo exclusively. Keep in mind that the DTV DVR was the brainchild of Newscorp back when they owned DTV. The DTV DVRs have proven to be craptastic and I'm sure they have lost a few new subs so why not dump it for a proven winner like TiVo?

That said, I do expect the DTV TiVos to be dumbed down from the SA TiVos.


Where did you pull this information from..???? Personal opinion and "proven to be" are two VERY different things.

I personally have had 2 TIVO unit crap out after 6 months, so I guess that means TIVO is "proven to be craptastic" ? Not hardly.. but I wouldn't get one because of my personal experience.

[Ken_F]

So you believe it will be "either/or", with no ability to have one or more of eachI didn't say that.

Some in this thread state that they are satisfied with HR2x and have no intention of buying a new box just to get the TiVo software. My point was that many people will upgrade regardless of whether they want or care about the TiVo software. And once they upgrade, they'll have to decide what software they want.

[Steve]

I didn't say that.

Some in this thread state that they are satisfied with HR2x and have no intention of buying a new box just to get the TiVo software. My point was that many people will upgrade regardless of whether they want or care about the TiVo software. And once they upgrade, they'll have to decide what software they want.Gotcha. Misunderstood your first post. :) I read it as there might be some marketing or technical reason you couldn't have both, like maybe both releases couldn't peacefully co-exist on the same home network, e.g. I see your point if it will be a new box... you'll need to order it one way or the other.

[carl6]

My point was that many people will upgrade regardless of whether they want or care about the TiVo software.

Why? Unless I see some specific feature or capability that I want or need as part of the upgrade, I can see no reason why I would even consider upgrading. This has nothing to do with HR versus Tivo - it applies to anything. I don't upgrade just because something newer comes along.

[David MacLeod]

Why? Unless I see some specific feature or capability that I want or need as part of the upgrade, I can see no reason why I would even consider upgrading. This has nothing to do with HR versus Tivo - it applies to anything. I don't upgrade just because something newer comes along.
but many do and, if I understand Ken F right, this is what might be happening. people upgrading just to have latest and greatest.

[Jeremy W]

Why? Unless I see some specific feature or capability that I want or need as part of the upgrade, I can see no reason why I would even consider upgrading.
I think the point Ken_F is trying to make is that the new box(es) will have compelling new features that the current boxes won't be getting, and that will entice people into upgrading.

[carl6]

I think the point Ken_F is trying to make is that the new box(es) will have compelling new features that the current boxes won't be getting, and that will entice people into upgrading.

It will be interesting to see what the new HD DirecTivo offers. However in my personal case, I doubt there would be anything that compelling. But then I am not a fan of the Tivo GUI, Menu structure, or suggestions (which is not meant to take anything away from those that are, we each have our preferences). That may well be compelling enough for some to make the change.

[Doug Brott]

I'd really be surprised to see a mass move away from the HD DVR as it exists today. Maybe SD or standalone subscribers will see an opportunity to move up, but I think most people will find the HD DVR to TiVo to be a lateral move meaning most won't do it .. but yeah, some will.

[Stuart Sweet]

I think, as I said before, that it's great to have choice. I'm having trouble imagining a case where my choice would be moving back to TiVo.

[David MacLeod]

I think, as I said before, that it's great to have choice. I'm having trouble imagining a case where my choice would be moving back to TiVo.

same here, however I cannot absolutely rule it out until I hear from others how it works.

[JoeTheDragon]

I'd really be surprised to see a mass move away from the HD DVR as it exists today. Maybe SD or standalone subscribers will see an opportunity to move up, but I think most people will find the HD DVR to TiVo to be a lateral move meaning most won't do it .. but yeah, some will.
I want to see 3 or more tuners in a box.

[seern]

I would love to have the delete recovery that TiVo has with their software. Now whether the "thumbs up/down" buttons would be useful in D* land is something to see.

[CorpITGuy]

For me it is simple: If I can pull my shows from the DirecTiVO to my Mac or Windows PC like I can from my Series 2 TiVO, I'll pay any amount (within reason). If I can't, I won't pay 10 bucks for one. It's that simple.

[oldfantom]

It just seems that Tivo had a lot of features I have learned to live without. I liked the suggestions. I had them turned off for a long time and only started using them at the end. I forgot about undelete.

The long and short is that I want to add a DVR and, at this point, I will wait and make that next dvr a Tivo. If it is significantly better, I will upgrade my two HR20-xxx boxes. "Significantly better" is a sliding scale based upon features v. cost.

[bonscott87]

For me it is simple: If I can pull my shows from the DirecTiVO to my Mac or Windows PC like I can from my Series 2 TiVO, I'll pay any amount (within reason). If I can't, I won't pay 10 bucks for one. It's that simple.

I think we can pretty much guarantee that isn't going to happen, ever. DirecTV will not allow it, DRM and all that.

[mp11]

I think we can pretty much guarantee that isn't going to happen, ever. DirecTV will not allow it, DRM and all that.

I remember many people saying something else wasnt gonna happen again...ever. Then Directv and Tivo jumped back into bed together. ;)

[Doug Brott]

I remember many people saying something else wasnt gonna happen again...ever. Then Directv and Tivo jumped back into bed together. ;)

So you think that DRM issues won't be an issue?

[sbl]

If TiVo manages to do this with TiVoToGo, with a DRM system accepted by CableLabs, why couldn't a DirecTV TiVo do it?

[Doug Brott]

If TiVo manages to do this with TiVoToGo, with a DRM system accepted by CableLabs, why couldn't a DirecTV TiVo do it?

As long as DRM is maintained, anything is possible I guess, but if folks are expecting an ad-hoc way that's not legal .. well, I don't think that will happen.

[CraigerCSM]

Will DTV charge the fee that Tivo chages for their service or will the Tivo be free per month? Isn't the monthly Tivo fee $10 a month? Thanks.

[Doug Brott]

Will DTV charge the fee that Tivo chages for their service or will the Tivo be free per month? Isn't the monthly Tivo fee $10 a month? Thanks.

There are no details .. The device has not been released yet and nothing regarding pricing has been announced.

[Tom Robertson]

Will DTV charge the fee that Tivo chages for their service or will the Tivo be free per month? Isn't the monthly Tivo fee $10 a month? Thanks.

My sense, purely from the public documents, is the monthly fees will be more than for the HR2x family, and I'm expecting it to be less than the Stand Alone TiVo fees. While I don't have a sense of what the number will be, at least that might give us a range.

Cheers,
Tom

[kiljoy]

As long as DRM is maintained, anything is possible I guess, but if folks are expecting an ad-hoc way that's not legal .. well, I don't think that will happen.I tend to agree with sbl, it's not something that TiVoHD can't do with its HD content, I can't see why DirecTV would have a problem with it in their implementation.

To throw a bone to the DirecTV DVR fans, they do have a point. Slapping on the TiVo name and stripping out everything that makes a TiVo cool will not make anyone want to pay more for a TiVo. While DirecTV did this in the past (and I know that there is dispute over whose side it was that prevented the good S2 stuff from coming to the DirecTiVos) I'm sure that both sides now understand the importance of adding value alongside the higher price. Stuff like Netflix I can kind of understand being left out (though not really as I doubt Netflix subs really would use DirecTV On Demand any more or less if Netflix is in the box as there isn't a lot of overlap between the two services), and Amazon VOD is certainly a no-go in my opinion. I think it's likely there will be changes to TiVo's streaming between boxes to make it work with existing DirecTV hardware, but TiVo2Go should be among the priorities in features that come with the new box.

They've apparently already said KidZone will be included, but really that plus a TiVo UI is not enough differentiation.

Tony

[bonscott87]

They've apparently already said KidZone will be included, but really that plus a TiVo UI is not enough differentiation.


But the die hard Tivoites think it is. To them the Tivo UI *is* what makes the difference. I've always contented the UI matters not, it's the features and to Joe Sixpack it's simply does it record and playback because that's all they use a DVR for anyway. All the "fluff" is just that for us techie crazies. :)

[CorpITGuy]

As long as DRM is maintained, anything is possible I guess, but if folks are expecting an ad-hoc way that's not legal .. well, I don't think that will happen.


DRM is maintained, but you can still burn to DVD, convert to iPhone/iTunes, etc.

It's just like iTunes music/movies with DRM.

And, it works fine with my standalone Series 2 TiVO that I have hooked up to a D12 receiver. No hacking necessary. Nothing illegal about it. :) I do worry, though, that D*'s deals with content providers aren't very good, as TiVO does not require those same deals to sell a third party DVR for cable TV service.

[kiljoy]

But the die hard Tivoites think it is. To them the Tivo UI *is* what makes the difference. I've always contented the UI matters not, it's the features and to Joe Sixpack it's simply does it record and playback because that's all they use a DVR for anyway. All the "fluff" is just that for us techie crazies. :)As a die-hard Tivotee, the TiVo UI is enough for me and is what makes the difference, but I'm not under the illusion that it can carry the day for everyone or that it even should.

Apple's iPod is about the only exception to the rule that you have to do more than offer a brand and a tight UI to charge more for something but its competitors aren't giving away their products.

Tony

[Syzygy]

... But the die hard Tivoites think it is... I've always contended the UI matters not; it's the features. And to Joe Sixpack it's simply "does it record and play back" because that's all they use a DVR for anyway. All the "fluff" is just that for us techie crazies. :)
It's insulting to call those of us who miss having a functional DVR "die hard Tivoites."

Here's a partial list of my outstanding issues with my HR21. All of them seem to me to be UI problems. None of them are problems on my HR10.

• Series Links are limited to 50.
• Keyword Autorecord SLs that specify "First Run Only" record reruns too.
• Press-and-hold functions work only sometimes; when they work, they take way too long to engage; and they sometimes engage when you don't want them to.
• Search results include all channels: VOD shows, PPV channels, and all the channels you can't get.
• Autorecording based on keyword searching records PPV channels and a few channels you can't get.
• Search-result lists refresh themselves for no reason, and sometimes restart from the beginning.
• Searching sometimes doesn't find matches past the next 3-7 days.
• Autocorrection after FF (and Pause!) goes way too far backwards.
• In general, menus and lists don't remember where you were; and there's no way to go quickly to the top or bottom of a list.
• Too many keypresses are required to get to the To Do List, the Prioritizer, and Manual recording.

[kiljoy]

I'd answer that by saying that for some the improved featureset over prior TiVo implementations overcomes what they feel are minor inconveniences that are natural to migrating to a different platform.

I don't like most of the stuff your list either and I think TiVo's UI is wonderful, but I can see where some would rather have something different.

And it's "TiVotees", like "devotees".

Tony

[Steve]

[...]To them the Tivo UI *is* what makes the difference. I've always contented the UI matters not, it's the features and to Joe Sixpack it's simply does it record and playback because that's all they use a DVR for anyway. All the "fluff" is just that for us techie crazies. :)I agree that all Joe Sixpack wants to do is record and playback, but I disagree that the UI doesn't matter to him. The less technically sophisticated the user, the more intuitive the UI needs to be. I'm basing this on many years of application development feedback that I've observed.

[ATARI]

I'd answer that by saying that for some the improved featureset over prior TiVo implementations overcomes what they feel are minor inconveniences that are natural to migrating to a different platform.

I don't like most of the stuff your list either and I think TiVo's UI is wonderful, but I can see where some would rather have something different.

And it's "TiVotees", like "devotees".

Tony

What about TiVoter?

Would that be like Trekkie vs. Trekker?

[Stuart Sweet]

I'm not sure what non-derogatory term to use for TiVo afficionados. Most of the terms I hear are sort of negative.

[harsh]

And, it works fine with my standalone Series 2 TiVO that I have hooked up to a D12 receiver.A connection between a D12 and a SD TiVo isn't a concern as you're stepping outside the digital domain in sending the content using a non-digital connection between the two devices.

A TiVo enabled satellite receiver is an entirely different can of worms as it affords a 100% faithful digital copy of the content. The principles of the "analog hole" do not apply inside a satellite DVR.

[harsh]

I'm not sure what non-derogatory term to use for TiVo afficionados. Most of the terms I hear are sort of negative.I often suggest (and use myself) "TiVotees"?

note: "TiVotees" first appeared on DBSTalk in a post by raj2001 in March of 2003.

[Doug Brott]

I'd say this is one of the first references to TiVotee (although there were likely earlier ones):

http://archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=279448#post279448

[mp11]

So you think that DRM issues won't be an issue?

I think that if people who are waiting for this Tivo go into this with eyes wide open, expecting only a fraction of the features in the standalone Tivo...they wont be too disappointed.

[gregjones]

I will be glad to respond item by item.


• Series Links are limited to 50.

Yes, this was a bone-headed design flaw. I have yet to run into it as a problem myself but I can see where it would be an issue for some. DirecTV's fault.

• Keyword Autorecord SLs that specify "First Run Only" record reruns too.

I have no experience with this one but I can see where it would be annoying. I tend to use autorecord only for movies or sporting events, so it would not apply for me. There might be a keyword that would help with this.

• Press-and-hold functions work only sometimes; when they work, they take way too long to engage; and they sometimes engage when you don't want them to.

Press and hold was a stupid idea. It rarely works. I pretend the unit can't do slow-motion because it never works out correctly.

• Search results include all channels: VOD shows, PPV channels, and all the channels you can't get.

You need to read up on how to do keyword searches that don't include these. Adding NNOT PPV does wonders to most keyword searches.

• Autorecording based on keyword searching records PPV channels and a few channels you can't get.

Like above, use the CCHAN keyword in your search.

• Search-result lists refresh themselves for no reason, and sometimes restart from the beginning.

This is what happens when a time slot is crossed as you view the results. It is not random but normally means you started looking at the list at 2 minutes to the hour. As the hour passes, not all of the shows are still available as results and it updates the list.

• Searching sometimes doesn't find matches past the next 3-7 days.

This is because the guide data is not always available that far in advance. Look for a show that is two weeks out. It will likely have no data even though the guide goes that far. It is hard to search for data that is not yet present.

• Autocorrection after FF (and Pause!) goes way too far backwards.


Blame TiVo. They hold a patent on the autocorrection.

• In general, menus and lists don't remember where you were; and there's no way to go quickly to the top or bottom of a list.
• Too many keypresses are required to get to the To Do List, the Prioritizer, and Manual recording.

This is not a bug but a preference.


There are some items there that warrant complaining. I agree. It is all a matter of perspective. The 50 series limit, press and hold and Channels I Get are areas where TiVo has a clear advantage. Personally, those impact me less than the HDMI issues, lockups and slowness from the HR10.

It is just as wrong to say the TiVos were useless as it is to claim the HR2x DVRs are. I always pick the product that presents the most value to me. I've owned both and have no devotion to either. Currently, the HR2x presents the best value for me. I will be surprised if the new offering presents enough advantages to outweigh the additional cost and irritation of changing, but I will watch closely.

[Syzygy]

I will be glad to respond item by item...
Thanks for responding at length, and for agreeing with those points with which only a D* fanatic might disagree. I feel compelled to argue about some of your responses, though.

• Adding NNOT PPV does wonders to most keyword searches.
I don't want to do that for one-off searches, nor should anyone have to do it. (And NNOT VOD has no effect.)

• Use the CCHAN keyword in your search.
I do use CCHAN for Autorecording, but it's not useful when you're just looking for, say, certain kinds of movies.

• [Search results refreshing] is not random but normally means you started looking at the list at 2 minutes to the hour.
No. It does happen at random times.

• [Searching sometimes doesn't find matches past the next 3-7 days] because the guide data is not always available.
No. Sometimes search results are truncated even when there are 11 days' worth of Guide data.

• Blame TiVo [if autocorrection goes too far backwards]. They hold [the] patent.
TiVo gets autocorrection right; and DirecTV has rights to all of TiVo's patents. (And I think there may be no TiVo patent on autocorrection.)

• ...HDMI issues, lockups and slowness from the HR10.
What HDMI issues? Yes, I agree that our HR10 locks up or requires restarting every couple of months. Slowness? Even after the great improvements in 0x0368, my HR21 is still slower than my HR10.

Finally, I've never claimed the HR2x DVRs are useless -- just not up to the useability standards long established by TiVo, ReplayTV and Ultimate TV.

[gregjones]

I don't want to do that for one-off searches, nor should anyone have to do it. (And NNOT VOD has no effect.)

I do use CCHAN for Autorecording, but it's not useful when you're just looking for, say, certain kinds of movies.


There is a significant difference in DirecTV not being able to do something and you not liking the way it is done.


No. It does happen at random times.


It is not random. Thanks to the voodoo program directors of many broadcast and cable networks, many shows start at 1 before the hour, 35 after the hour and everywhere in between. This happens because some show in the list is no longer available. It is irritating, but not random.


TiVo gets autocorrection right; and DirecTV has rights to all of TiVo's patents. (And I think there may be no TiVo patent on autocorrection.)


TiVo has not given permission for anyone else to use a number of their pieces of intellectual property, including but not limited to the following: autocorrection for fast forward, the term Wishlist, the term Season Pass. DirecTV has a licensing agreement with TiVo. TiVo did not convey all of their intellectual property in that agreement and it has never been assumed they did.



What HDMI issues? Yes, I agree that our HR10 locks up or requires restarting every couple of months. Slowness? Even after the great improvements in 0x0368, my HR21 is still slower than my HR10.


The HDMI failures on the HR10 were very well documented.


Finally, I've never claimed the HR2x DVRs are useless -- just not up to the useability standards long established by TiVo, ReplayTV and Ultimate TV.

It is not up to your subjective usability standards. The HR10 was not up to the usability standards of the SD DirecTiVo units according to many customers. We all have opinions. I am discussing facts.

[Stuart Sweet]

Folks, this is not an HR10 vs. HR20 thread. Syzygy has started several of those. Let's get back to anticipating the upcoming TiVo device, which I anticipate I won't see in person for quite some time.

[Syzygy]

There is a significant difference in DirecTV not being able to do something and you not liking the way it is done.
I believe you're referring, at least in part, to these two points of mine:

• Search results include all channels: VOD shows, PPV channels, and all the channels you can't get.
• Autorecording based on keyword searching records PPV channels and a few channels you can't get.

It's because the marketing people rule the roost at DirecTV that we have to put up with the intentional and often unavoidable pollution of search results with shows they want to sell. It's disingenuous to pretend that my objection to this pollution is simply me (and me alone) "not liking the way it is done."

I'm sorry to have to say it, but statements like that (defending the indefensible) put you firmly in the camp of D* fanatics. I'm through.

[psweig]

"This is what happens when a time slot is crossed as you view the results. It is not random but normally means you started looking at the list at 2 minutes to the hour. As the hour passes, not all of the shows are still available as results and it updates the list."

GregJones, I can't thank you enough (bow, bow) for this explnation. I have been suffering for 4 years with this problem. No matter how many times I have complained about it, there has been no resolution. I will try to time my long searches a little bit after the hour. :)

[Stuart Sweet]

Second warning. I'm going to assume some posts got crossed and you all didn't see the first warning in time.

This is not an HR10 vs. HR20 thread. Please move on.

[Syzygy]

I apologize, Stuart. Yes, I was typing my last post while you were posting.

I understand. This is a thread about hope, not for dwelling on the (hopefully soon-to-be) past. I allowed myself to get hooked by bonscott87 saying "the UI matters not." Again, sorry for beating a dead horse.

[bonscott87]

I apologize, Stuart. Yes, I was typing my last post while you were posting.

I understand. This is a thread about hope, not for dwelling on the (hopefully soon-to-be) past. I allowed myself to get hooked by bonscott87 saying "the UI matters not." Again, sorry for beating a dead horse.

Actually I was just agreeing with someone else that said that Kid Zone and the Tivo UI would not be enough for lots of people to switch. I agreed by saying that yes, to the majority of people, the masses, the UI doesn't matter. And I don't see how anyone can say that isn't true, just ask the 30+ million cable DVR users that are happy as punch. :lol: I said nothing more then that.

I apologize if you took it a different way or I offended somehow.

I hope that a new Tivo finally gets here because competition is always good. It would have to be *really* special for me to pay extra for it, but that doesn't mean people won't find it worth it. But the masses most likely will not unless it has a lot of extra goodies well beyond what they get for "free".

[Syzygy]

I agree that all Joe Sixpack wants to do is record and playback, but I disagree that the UI doesn't matter to him. The less technically sophisticated the user, the more intuitive the UI needs to be. I'm basing this on many years of application development feedback that I've observed.
+1. My work history may be similar to Steve's. Anyway, I've observed the same kind of thing: A well-thought-out and intuitive UI is good for all users, but especially for the new or casual user. Most of all, I learned that users are very much put off by unpleasant surprises in the way a program works.

[gregjones]

I don't appreciate the personal characterization but I honestly care little of other people's opinion of me.

Back on the core topic, I think it will be good for a number of people that have a choice. Many will be happy once they see that little TiVo logo on it. And many of us have a lot higher expectations than when we first used DVRs.

I fully expect TiVo software to be more in line with corporate interests this time around. Specifically, I expect almost no portability of content and no user-initiated hacks. In the grand scheme of things these led to the issues that caused what user griping existed back then. Namely I refer to slow updates and lackluster support.

I want TiVo to be another financially successful DVR offering because it will mean more subscribers for DirecTV (retention and new). I don't think it will be a great number, but every little bit helps. DirecTV succeeding means they are able to continue to provide a good product. That is about the extent of my interest in the matter.

[gregjones]

GregJones, I can't thank you enough (bow, bow) for this explnation. I have been suffering for 4 years with this problem. No matter how many times I have complained about it, there has been no resolution. I will try to time my long searches a little bit after the hour. :)

It took me forever to realize this was the cause. It is annoying but I would rather wait a few minutes to start than get 3 days into results and have to restart at the beginning.

[Syzygy]

I don't appreciate the personal characterization but I honestly care little of other people's opinion of me.
:
I fully expect TiVo software to be more in line with corporate interests this time around.
:
I want TiVo to be another financially successful DVR offering because it will mean more subscribers for DirecTV (retention and new). I don't think it will be a great number, but every little bit helps. DirecTV succeeding means they are able to continue to provide a good product. That is about the extent of my interest in the matter.
Bygones?

I hope those "corporate interests" don't require a non-functional CIG list, or force-feeding PPV/VOD.

Would you care to hazard a guess about how many subscribers might pay a premium for a TiVo (even without a TiVo logo ;))? I'm guessing 10-20% after a year.

Even I won't jump on the "bandwagon" ;) right away -- unless I get to be a beta tester. Absent that, I'll probably wait for others to put their toes in the water first. I've got only two boxes now, and no way to add a third, so the new box had better work.

[gregjones]

I hope those "corporate interests" don't require a non-functional CIG list, or force-feeding PPV/VOD.

No, I was referring to the original TiVo models being overly hackable. While that may seem like a good idea it led to a fairly sizable rift in features between different models. Keeping content providers happy is obviously a priority for DirecTV (it should be, as they have contracts with them).

DirecTV has to walk a fine line between consumer happiness and provider concern. TiVo, in its standalone boxes, has no such concern. They don't have to sit down at the table with HBO or Showtime. Allowing the unencrypted portability of content is unlikely on a DirecTV/TiVo joint venture.

It's a different world now. When the first DirecTiVos were introduced, everyone that had one was an early adopter. Years later, DVRs are much more widespread and involve many different user interfaces. Most users have used several different DVRs. This means the bar is a lot higher now than when I bought my Sony SAT-T60. I want TiVo to knock it out of the park because it will bring up new ideas. The worst thing for all DVR users will be the new TiVo being a non-issue. Let's hope that is not the case.

[Stuart Sweet]

The worst thing for all DVR users will be the new TiVo being a non-issue. Let's hope that is not the case.

In that I wholeheartedly agree. In the coming years I see fewer HD channels starting, and expect most providers to carry over 90% of available channels. So what sets a provider apart? Price and convenience are certainly determining factors, but the feature set and user experience are also important and it would be great to see DIRECTV jump ahead in this as well. If users send the message that the UI is unimportant, there will be no reason to innovate.

[Syzygy]

Actually, those who bought a stand-alone TiVo (or ReplayTV) for $500 or more in 1999 were the early adopters. ;)

[gregjones]

1+1=2

(I just want to see how that can be pointlessly refuted)

[gregjones]

Actually, those who bought a stand-alone TiVo (or ReplayTV) for $500 or more in 1999 were the early adopters. ;)

Everyone that bought a DVR up to and including the golden years of the DirecTiVo was an early adopter because the percentage of penetration was ridiculously low. These were geared towards a very specifically narrow audience. The UI had to be designed for that audience.

The audience is now very different. TiVo's predominant UI features are vast departures from the cable guides of its time. After DVRs became more commonplace, many other UIs more closely mirrored the non-DVR program guides. This is somewhat similar to early cars and today. In the early days of affordable cars, your choice was a black Ford in the US. That was the only consistently available choice in many markets. Now users have a lot more choices and a lot higher expectations.

[Tom Robertson]

1+1=2

(I just want to see how that can be pointlessly refuted)

1+1=10 (base 2) :) :) :)

[gregjones]

1+1=10 (base 2) :) :) :)

As a former math major, I will take that.

[Syzygy]

Everyone that bought a DVR up to and including the golden years of the DirecTiVo was an early adopter because the percentage of penetration was ridiculously low. These were geared towards a very specifically narrow audience. The UI had to be designed for that audience...
The audience was VCR users. TiVo and ReplayTV were starting in 1998-1999 with a fairly clean slate. They both, IMO, did a great job on their respective UI designs -- and on interacting with their users to improve their product. The DirecTiVos used the same UI as the stand-alone TiVo.

[Jeremy W]

Would you care to hazard a guess about how many subscribers might pay a premium for a TiVo (even without a TiVo logo ;))? I'm guessing 10-20% after a year.
10-20% after a year? That's insanity. I think 5-10% after a year is being generous.

[Ken_F]

10-20% after a year? That's insanity. I think 5-10% after a year is being generous.I think that all depends on how it is offered. If the hardware cost is the same and the premium is the same $2.99/mo that Comcast customers pay, then I would agree with your assessment.

If the TiVo software is offered as a small upfront free (say, $29-$49) as part of the order checkout process at DirecTV.com, then I could see more going for it.

[Jeremy W]

If the TiVo software is offered as a small upfront free (say, $29-$49) as part of the order checkout process at DirecTV.com, then I could see more going for it.
I can't imagine Tivo would go for that.

[NFLnut]

Actually, those who bought a stand-alone TiVo (or ReplayTV) for $500 or more in 1999 were the early adopters. ;)


Does $399 in January 2000 count? :wave:

[NFLnut]

I think that all depends on how it is offered. If the hardware cost is the same and the premium is the same $2.99/mo that Comcast customers pay, then I would agree with your assessment.

If the TiVo software is offered as a small upfront free (say, $29-$49) as part of the order checkout process at DirecTV.com, then I could see more going for it.


I would gladly pay $2.99/month for a TiVo. The day that the DirecTiVo becomes available, I am ordering anew one for my wife to replace her SD TiVo and I am sending the HR20 that I have HATED since the day I got it in 8/2006 and getting a second DirecTiVo to replace it!

But I would prefer to pay nothing extra for the TiVo and instead they get to keep me as a customer! The HR20 is such a piece of crap that if DirecTV didn't still have exclusivity of NFL-Sunday Ticket, I would have switched to FiOS long ago! And with the ever-increasing prices from DirecTV, they had better be careful in assuming that they can get away with charging more and more and more and ... Adding the new HD-DirecTiVo just might keep them from LOSING customers!

[NFLnut]

But the die hard Tivoites think it is. To them the Tivo UI *is* what makes the difference. I've always contented the UI matters not, it's the features and to Joe Sixpack it's simply does it record and playback because that's all they use a DVR for anyway. All the "fluff" is just that for us techie crazies. :)

It's not the UI, per se. It's the fact that TiVo can program a DVR that functions elegantly. Unlike the HR2* which functions rarely! I actually prefer the HR2* interface (being able to access NowPlaying and set up recordings, do searches, etc without exiting what you are currently playing). But I can't wait for the new DirecTiVo because the HR2* is just a glitchy boat anchor.

[Jeremy W]

But I can't wait for the new DirecTiVo because the HR2* is just a glitchy boat anchor.
Hyperbole much?

[psweig]

Does $399 in January 2000 count? :wave:

Hey, I'm January of 2000 also. :D

[fairsailing]

tick, tock. Our 2000 DSR6000 Series 1 is still our main DVR here, upgraded to 106 hours 5 years ago, with an upgraded fan at that time too. Absolutely trouble free workhorse in daily use. My HD upgrade didn't happen last year cause our 2nd local DTV installer thought our one HD LOS location was too difficult for him to do (after the 1st DTV installer said they would do the install if I had my tripod setup in the HD LOS location ahead of time).

So I have been staring at an empty tripod high up on my roof for over a year. This week, in anticipation of the HD TiVo release, I bought a SWM Slimline/PI and rough aligned it, it will go up on the tripod the day after our HD TiVo arrives. The lower weight, single coax, and the elimination of 110 and 119 sats for mainstream programming, makes this install just easy enough for me to try on my own.

[sigma1914]

tick, tock. Our 2000 DSR6000 Series 1 is still our main DVR here, upgraded to 106 hours 5 years ago, with an upgraded fan at that time too. Absolutely trouble free workhorse in daily use. My HD upgrade didn't happen last year cause our 2nd local DTV installer thought our one HD LOS location was too difficult for him to do (after the 1st DTV installer said they would do the install if I had my tripod setup in the HD LOS location ahead of time).

So I have been staring at an empty tripod high up on my roof for over a year. This week, in anticipation of the HD TiVo release, I bought a SWM Slimline/PI and rough aligned it, it will go up on the tripod the day after our HD TiVo arrives. The lower weight, single coax, and the elimination of 110 and 119 sats for mainstream programming, makes this install just easy enough for me to try on my own.

You might be waiting a few months.

[harsh]

Along with possibly losing some of the content that is only available in MPEG2 on 119W.

[inkahauts]

It's not the UI, per se. It's the fact that TiVo can program a DVR that functions elegantly. Unlike the HR2* which functions rarely! I actually prefer the HR2* interface (being able to access NowPlaying and set up recordings, do searches, etc without exiting what you are currently playing). But I can't wait for the new DirecTiVo because the HR2* is just a glitchy boat anchor.

What glitches?

[Syzygy]

What glitches?
You cannot be serious!

[hdtvfan0001]

It's not the UI, per se. It's the fact that TiVo can program a DVR that functions elegantly.
I've heard the word primative used much more frequently as a description than elegant. :D

It's a matter of taste in the end (the UI).

As for your other observation.

I have successfully used the HR2x generation HD DVRs (have several of them, different models)...and "glitchy" isn't an appropriate description.

I have never missed a recording or playback - not one in thousands of recordings. Seems like that kind of reliability would not be consistent with your assessment.

[ATARI]

What glitches?

You forgot to put this ;) at the end of your post.