View Full Version : DirecTV: please fix guide data!
SFNSXguy
09-26-09, 09:07 AM
DirecTV: please fix guide data!
It would be wonderful to set a DVR for a "first run series" and not get three or four versions of THAT SAME PROGRAM.
Thanks for your attention to this.
(moderators: please put this in the category will get the best results. Thnx)
Clemsole
09-26-09, 09:24 AM
The "first run" info comes from the network supplying the program not D*. D* has nothing to do with it.
sigma1914
09-26-09, 10:07 AM
Examples would help, as there ways to work around the "issue."
BubblePuppy
09-26-09, 10:19 AM
DirecTV: please fix guide data!
It would be wonderful to set a DVR for a "first run series" and not get three or four versions of THAT SAME PROGRAM.
Thanks for your attention to this.
(moderators: please put this in the category will get the best results. Thnx)
The "first run" info comes from the network supplying the program not D*. D* has nothing to do with it.
Clemsole is correct. However, our dvrs' already contain a database of all the shows that have been recorded, and that is "History". That could be used to weed out "repeats/reruns, and shows that have already been recorded. Not sure what it would take for D* to make that happen, though.
Clemsole is correct. However, our dvrs' already contain a database of all the shows that have been recorded, and that is "History". That could be used to weed out "repeats/reruns, and shows that have already been recorded. Not sure what it would take for D* to make that happen, though.DirecTV does use our HISTORY to determine whether or not a show has been on the playlist within the past 28 days or so. If it has, it shouldn't re-record, even if you specified "Episode type, Repeats". Sounds like a bug to me.
The "first run" info comes from the network supplying the program not D*. D* has nothing to do with it.
Regarding incorrect "First Run" status (apparently not uncommon), we have a related Wish List request to this effect:
Use "First Aired Date" to calculate "First Run/Repeat" status, and only look for embedded "First Run" or "Repeat" flags when no FAD is present. The info balloon for this request reads: If neither a FAD nor a flag is present, record the show no matter what, to be safe. Treat a show as "first run" if not in HR2x HISTORY and FAD is within 2 weeks of recording date.
BubblePuppy
09-26-09, 10:35 AM
DirecTV does use our HISTORY to determine whether or not a show has been on the playlist within the past 28 days or so. If it has, it shouldn't re-record, even if you specified "Episode type, Repeats". Sounds like a bug to me.
If it is supposed to do that then it is broke, as I continually get the same show recorded after I delete the previous recording of the show, and it is within 28 days of the first recording.
If it is supposed to do that then it is broke, as I continually get the same show recorded after I delete the previous recording of the show, and it is within 28 days of the first recording.If you haven't already reported it as an "issue", I would. Shouldn't be happening.
Curious which show it is. I'd love to see what the GUIDE data looks like. And if it's Daily Show or Colbert, I might have a solution (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2229006#post2229006) you can try.
Doug Brott
09-26-09, 10:58 AM
Clemsole is correct. However, our dvrs' already contain a database of all the shows that have been recorded, and that is "History". That could be used to weed out "repeats/reruns, and shows that have already been recorded. Not sure what it would take for D* to make that happen, though.
I have to believe that if the GUIDE data were perfect then your suggestion would be an obvious mechanism for improvement. So, to me, that implies that something else is going on .. perhaps the GUIDE data is the culprit here.
BubblePuppy
09-26-09, 11:27 AM
I have to believe that if the GUIDE data were perfect then your suggestion would be an obvious mechanism for improvement. So, to me, that implies that something else is going on .. perhaps the GUIDE data is the culprit here.
If the guide data was perfect, my suggestion would be moot.;)
But by using History, the show name or original air date could be used to do the cross checking. Of course, searching through History would take a long time.
dreadlk
09-26-09, 11:29 AM
Yesterday I got a fairly good example of how some of this works. I have two HR units, both were set to record Stargate episodes both first run and repeats. Yesterday there was a 24 hour stargate marathon. My first HR and much older unit is an HR20 and it has over the past two years recorded almost every episode at some point. The second unit is an HR23 and it is only about 7 months old.
This morning I looked and the HR20 recorded no episodes at all while the HR23 recorded 12 episodes. That means that the History is taken in to account and it is used from a lot further back than just 28 days. That’s also one of the reasons I don’t remove the series link from the HR20, because it rarely ever records any episode anymore, but is great for finding that odd episode that they rarely show.
Three things need to come together to make this thing work properly, the Network needs to supply accurate information to the guide company, the Guide company needs to enter it properly and lastly the HR software needs to work properly. My experience so far is that the HR software does work properly but the Guide company always seems to be making errors.
BubblePuppy
09-26-09, 11:32 AM
If you haven't already reported it as an "issue", I would. Shouldn't be happening.
Curious which show it is. I'd love to see what the GUIDE data looks like. And if it's Daily Show or Colbert, I might have a solution (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2229006#post2229006) you can try.
I think I know what it is. Most of the shows are repeats on channels like TNT, USA, etc, but not marked as reruns.....ackkk..I'm just pulling this explanation out-o-my a$$.
BubblePuppy
09-26-09, 11:34 AM
Yesterday I got a fairly good example of how some of this works. I have two HR units, both were set to record Stargate episodes both first run and repeats. Yesterday there was a 24 hour stargate marathon. My first HR and much older unit is an HR20 and it has over the past two years recorded almost every episode at some point. The second unit is an HR23 and it is only about 7 months old.
This morning I looked and the HR20 recorded no episodes at all while the HR23 recorded 12 episodes. That means that the History is taken in to account and it is used from a lot further back than just 28 days. That’s also one of the reasons I don’t remove the series link from the HR20, because it rarely ever records any episode anymore, but is great for finding that odd episode that they rarely show.
Three things need to come together to make this thing work properly, the Network needs to supply accurate information to the guide company, the Guide company needs to enter it properly and lastly the HR software needs to work properly. My experience so far is that the HR software does work properly but the Guide company always seems to be making errors.
And that is the main issue. Nothing can be done about that, unfortunatly.
Or it is the networks not supplying the guide provider with the info.
This morning I looked and the HR20 recorded no episodes at all while the HR23 recorded 12 episodes. That means that the History is taken in to account and it is used from a lot further back than just 28 days. That’s also one of the reasons I don’t remove the series link from the HR20, because it rarely ever records any episode anymore, but is great for finding that odd episode that they rarely show.What are the reasons given in your HR20's HISTORY for why the 12 Stargate episodes didn't record? If it's because they had previously appeared in the PLAYLIST, then it should say so.
AFAIK, the "28-day" rule should only block episodes that appeared in your HISTORY the past month or so, so something's not working right.
DogLover
09-26-09, 01:44 PM
What are the reasons given in your HR20's HISTORY for why the 12 Stargate episodes didn't record? If it's because they had previously appeared in the PLAYLIST, then it should say so.
AFAIK, the "28-day" rule should only block episodes that appeared in your HISTORY the past month or so, so something's not working right.
Actually, I thought that the 28-day rule was a TiVo thing. Did we ever confirm that the HR's use 28 days? I sort of thought it used the whole history file, but I don't know that for sure.
The other thing to consider is does it track whether you've watched an episode? I believe my old DirecTivo would re-record an episode if it rolled off of the playlist without being viewed.
Actually, I thought that the 28-day rule was a TiVo thing. Did we ever confirm that the HR's use 28 days? I sort of thought it used the whole history file, but I don't know that for sure.Ya. Earl told us about it a while back:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1461239#post1461239
DogLover
09-27-09, 05:51 AM
Ya. Earl told us about it a while back:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1461239#post1461239
Thanks!
Going through my HISTORY today, I noticed a new (at least to me) cancellation explanation message:
"This episode was canceled because it did not match your show type settings or the program has already been recorded."
I'm not sure why they're unable to distinguish between the two scenarios this message describes and offer a different message for each, but I'm very happy to see DirecTV is trying to address one of our "top 10" Wish List requests:
Recording HISTORY should always display the correct reason a show was "Canceled", "Deleted", or "Not Recorded".
Thanks!
The Merg
09-28-09, 10:36 AM
If it is supposed to do that then it is broke, as I continually get the same show recorded after I delete the previous recording of the show, and it is within 28 days of the first recording.
But does the show it keeps recording have a generic description or a specific episode title and description?
- Merg
The Merg
09-28-09, 10:41 AM
What are the reasons given in your HR20's HISTORY for why the 12 Stargate episodes didn't record? If it's because they had previously appeared in the PLAYLIST, then it should say so.
That's only if the episode showed up in the ToDo List to begin with. I've never had something show up in the History if it wasn't in the ToDo List to begin with.
Unless this is something new like that new History message you just pointed out. If it starts putting entries in the History for shows it doesn't record since they had been previously recorded, that is going to add a lot of entries...
- Merg
If it starts putting entries in the History for shows it doesn't record since they had been previously recorded, that is going to add a lot of entries...What you say makes sense. So if not for a non-matching show type, I wonder what the "program has already been recorded" part of that message refers to? :scratchin
Or maybe this is something new, and HISTORY will just be more "verbose" in the future. Actually I can live with that. I'd rather have too much info, than not enough. I just want it to be understandable.
BattleZone
09-28-09, 03:04 PM
But does the show it keeps recording have a generic description or a specific episode title and description?
- Merg
That's definitely a problem. If a show like, say, Wheel Of Fortune, doesn't have an espisode name or other unique identifier, then all it can go on is "first run" status. If the network puts "first run" on all three showings of that episode (that are on on the same day), then the DVR assumes they are unique shows and will record each one. Again, it goes back to poor guide data being supplied to Tribune from the network.
A DVR can only work as well as the guide data it is supplied with.
islesfan
09-28-09, 03:13 PM
Examples would help, as there ways to work around the "issue."
Glenn Beck FOX 2:00 PM. The exact same episode records every day at 11:00 PM again. (It also records all the re-plays of the same episodes over the weekends.) I end up with 3 or 4 identical episodes recorded at a time. Mine is set to series link, first run only.
That's definitely a problem. If a show like, say, Wheel Of Fortune, doesn't have an espisode name or other unique identifier, then all it can go on is "first run" status. If the network puts "first run" on all three showings of that episode (that are on on the same day), then the DVR assumes they are unique shows and will record each one. Again, it goes back to poor guide data being supplied to Tribune from the network.
A DVR can only work as well as the guide data it is supplied with.Actually, using keyword AUTORECORDS, we found a non-intuitive work-around (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2063209#post2063209) for a couple of that have generic guide data (The Colbert Report and The Daily Show). Is there a specific show you're having problems with? I'd love to see if this method works on that one as well. TIA.
Just saw Islefan's post. Might want to give this AUTORECORD a try:
beck NNOT discuss CCHAN 360
Set the AUTORECORD for "First Run Only".
EDIT: Turns out this method described above does not work for Glenn Beck. Unlike Colbert and Daily Show, the GUIDE data doesn't change prior to air date, which is the "quirk" that allows that technique to work for those shows. It remains generic right up until it airs, so the search never matches, because we're excluding any hits that contain "discuss".
DirecTV does use our HISTORY to determine whether or not a show has been on the playlist within the past 28 days or so. If it has, it shouldn't re-record, even if you specified "Episode type, Repeats". Sounds like a bug to me.
Pretty sure checking the history for the show previously being recorded is a Tivo feature not DirecTv.
Pretty sure checking the history for the show previously being recorded is a Tivo feature not DirecTv.Well if it's not in HISTORY, it's stored elsewhere, according (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1461239#post1461239) to Earl. :)
For those who may not know who Earl Bonovich is, he's a former DBSTalker who now works for DirecTV. Before he worked for them, he was the liaison between the CE program here and the DirecTV technical folks.
Ok, saw that link later in the thread. In any case my HR20 recorded 3 new shows on ABC last week (M-F) and then decided to record the repeats on Saturday too.
dreadlk
09-28-09, 04:00 PM
And that is the main issue. Nothing can be done about that, unfortunatly.
Or it is the networks not supplying the guide provider with the info.
Well Directv needs to start cracking the whip and get whoever is at fault to fix the problem.
I wonder why the guide companies dont post the info on the Net and let people be able to look at it and the provide them with corrections. All they need is a quick one button "Report Bad Info" button. That way fans of certain series might visit to make sure that their favorite series info is correct, if you get enough people on board the public could be double checking a lot of this data.
DogLover
09-28-09, 06:22 PM
Well Directv needs to start cracking the whip and get whoever is at fault to fix the problem.
I wonder why the guide companies dont post the info on the Net and let people be able to look at it and the provide them with corrections. All they need is a quick one button "Report Bad Info" button. That way fans of certain series might visit to make sure that their favorite series info is correct, if you get enough people on board the public could be double checking a lot of this data.
How would the public know what is going to be shown before it is broadcast?
islesfan
09-30-09, 08:29 PM
I'll give you a new version of the opposite problem. Yesterday, on Spike, there was an episode of Voyager I think called "equilibrium." It was a two part episode, and it's a good thing I watched it today because the HR20 had no intention of recording part two tonight. The guide information lists the episode identically to last night's episode (rather than listing it as a "part 2"), so it was going to skip this as a duplicate (but still record Beck which actually is a duplicate).
I originally posted this elsewhere, but evidently no one cares about this show or is inconcered that there seems to be two sets of guide data in teh machine. IF you access the guide data one way for this show, it shows a complete description, but if you go to episodes and access it that way, for the same showing of the same episode, it shows generic guide data.
(sorry, iPhone pics)
OK, if I search for Man Caves here are the results of the search:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b371/sherifftruman/iPhonePictures499.jpg
When I select the First one, that says Man Caves, I am immediately taken to this episode description. It is the episode I want, scheduled to run at 9:00 PM Tuesday 9-29.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b371/sherifftruman/iPhonePictures498.jpg
However, if I click Episodes, this is what I see. Now the 9:00 PM episode is the generic description again. The one at midnight is showing the correct description though
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b371/sherifftruman/iPhonePictures497.jpg
So, is there some secret guide data that the machine uses but does not always show us, but sometimes it does? I just can't seem to understand what is going on here.
dreadlk
10-01-09, 10:43 AM
How would the public know what is going to be shown before it is broadcast?
Devoted series fans usualy read the shows websites info for upcoming episode and they participate in the shows forums etc. So they know way in advance of everybody exactly when a episode will be airing also they take note of promos for upcoming episodes and lastly they always know repeats from first runs. So if the fans cross reference that info with the guide data they will pick up on many of the typos.
DogLover
10-01-09, 06:02 PM
Devoted series fans usualy read the shows websites info for upcoming episode and they participate in the shows forums etc. So they know way in advance of everybody exactly when a episode will be airing also they take note of promos for upcoming episodes and lastly they always know repeats from first runs. So if the fans cross reference that info with the guide data they will pick up on many of the typos.
I suppose that would help them correct typos. But it would certainly take extra manpower to do this, and unless their customers are willing to pay more, why should they increase operating costs?
And if the data is any more different than just typos, who should they believe? Fans who are getting the data 2nd or 3rd hand? Or the people that are actually in charge of sending the signal out? Even if the fans' information is more correct, I can't see them ever making a decision to change what is sent by the broadcasters. (Think of the double checking someone would have to do to make sure someone wasn't sending purposefully incorrect data.)
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