Can I install a dish on my balcony witout drilling holes through the exterior wall?

[sdavie3]

Just wondering if its possible to install a dish without having to drill any holes through an exterior wall?

My reason is that most apartment buildings (here in New York) won't allow you to drill through their exterior walls. I'd like to install a dish on my balcony, which legally they can't stop me from doing, but they can stop me from drilling through the wall.

Is there any way get around this? I know Dish used to have a flat cable which would slide through or under a doorway. Another installer suggested the use of magnets (through the exterior glass to the balcony). Although, I have no idea if either of these would actually work.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[dave29]

Flat cables and dp you have room for a Tri-pod?

[sdavie3]

Flat cables and dp you have room for a Tri-pod?
I probably would.

[BattleZone]

If you were my customer, I'd tell you that flat cables were not supported.

Since you aren't, I'll give you a bit more detail:

DirecTV and Dish have both changed their flat cable requirements to the Amphenol/Times Fiber flat cable, part number TFC-144823 (http://www.cablesondemand.com/images/products/Window%20Jumper.pdf). Retail price on these is $20 or so each. The older $5 flat cables have been banned. This is largely because both companies are pushing more DC power through the coax and the cheaper cables weren't rated for it. A number of people have been shocked by damaged cables, and in at least two cases, they have started fires. The newer, thicker, expensive cable is tougher, and rated for 2 amps of power, but can still be damaged.

The real problem is that in most apartments, the balcony has a patio door and that's where the flat cable has to go. With a flat cable in the door, it is impossible to lock the door unless you slam the door on the cable, but that will quickly damage the flat cable and cause a loss of signal (or worse). Most customers then call their sat company to complain, and expect free replacements of these expensive flat cables. Remember my earlier statement that flat cables aren't supported? That's why.

IMO, flat cables should only be used if you can run them through a window, OR if you can take apart the patio door so that you can run the cables though the FIXED side of the door. In other words, you need to ensure that the door/window is closed on the flat cable ONCE and not opened again. Opening and closing the window/door with the flat cable in it will destroy the flat cable sooner or later, and I assure you that people will slam the window/door on it constantly.

So, if you want to do this as a DIY thing, fine, just keep in mind everything I've written above. Flat cables are not provided for free, nor are they replaced for free. If you must use them, use them in such a way that they'll last and be safe, to you, your equipment, and your home.

[sdavie3]

Thanks BattleZone.

I guess I should order the flat cable myself and probably try to get a local installer rather than one of Directv's installers to do the installation as I don't think I could do the entire install myself - I'm not a tech.

For me there's no kids or anything else to worry about so I could try to minimize the opening/closing of the balcony door and be mindful of the cable.

[ndole]

Do you have an in-wall AC unit? In my apartment I pulled the trim up surrounding my AC in the wall, and ran regular RG6 cable behind it. The trim is a little bit displaced, but you could do the same thing with flat cable without displacing the trim. Another thing to consider with apartments is if you can or can't get to the [wiring closet] where the main cable drop for the apartment is split to all of the rooms in the unit. If you can get access to it, and more importantly get a few cables to it from your dish location, then you can use the existing outlets [You may have to replace the barrel connectors in the wall plates if you're doing HD] to get the signal from dish to receiver.


**You can see my AC unit setup in the photos link below.

[sdavie3]

Do you have an in-wall AC unit? In my apartment I pulled the trim up surrounding my AC in the wall, and ran regular RG6 cable behind it. The trim is a little bit displaced, but you could do the same thing with flat cable without displacing the trim. Another thing to consider with apartments is if you can or can't get to the [wiring closet] where the main cable drop for the apartment is split to all of the rooms in the unit. If you can get access to it, and more importantly get a few cables to it from your dish location, then you can use the existing outlets [You may have to replace the barrel connectors in the wall plates if you're doing HD] to get the signal from dish to receiver.


**You can see my AC unit setup in the photos link below.
Thanks for the suggestions, but the A/C unit is inside the the apartment and there's no chance in hell they would let me into the wiring room (this is a 30+ story high rise with around 10 units per floor so getting the wires from the dish to the room would be unfeasible).

[joe diamond]

In addition to the other good advice these ideas may help.

IF you have a line of sight LOS the dish will work through clear glass.

IF you have a window in the area of the dish mount you can cut a piece of 2x4 lumber to the width of the window...then drill the 2x4 to allow regular cable to enter the room. Locking the window becomes hard.

Small dish TV rigs were not intended for urban applications because of exactly the problems you are encountering.

Joe

[sdavie3]

In addition to the other good advice these ideas may help.

IF you have a line of sight LOS the dish will work through clear glass.

IF you have a window in the area of the dish mount you can cut a piece of 2x4 lumber to the width of the window...then drill the 2x4 to allow regular cable to enter the room. Locking the window becomes hard.

Small dish TV rigs were not intended for urban applications because of exactly the problems you are encountering.

Joe
Thanks Joe.

Will the signal be degraded at all by placing the dish indoors (the signal going through the window)?

[protrex]

If you're in NYC I highly recommend talking to Mertzen on this forum. That guy is a freakin genius when it comes to tricky apartment installs. I'm sure many other around here would recommend him.

-Jamie

[sdavie3]

If you're in NYC I highly recommend talking to Mertzen on this forum. That guy is a freakin genius when it comes to tricky apartment installs. I'm sure many other around here would recommend him.

-Jamie
Thanks, I am in NYC and if I have more questions I'll ask Mertzen.

[BattleZone]

Thanks BattleZone.

I guess I should order the flat cable myself and probably try to get a local installer rather than one of Directv's installers to do the installation as I don't think I could do the entire install myself - I'm not a tech.

I recommend you buy spares...

[joe diamond]

Thanks Joe.

Will the signal be degraded at all by placing the dish indoors (the signal going through the window)?

Nope,

Works fine.......open and close the window...same numbers.
If the glass has lead in it as a tint it won't work nor will screens.

Last one I did a little old lady told the cable company to stuff it before she talked to her apartment management.
We brought a wooden picnic table in from her patio & bolted the mast to it. Got 90s on all transponders.

She just had to be careful about bumping the table.

Joe

[taz291819]

I have two doors to my back patio, a regular door and a sliding glass door. I have two lines running under the regular door, the weather trim was thick enough for the door to still close, and not screw with the RG6. The sliding glass door closes also, and nearly locks, but I use a metal rod as a lock anyway.

Who really uses just the regular lock on sliding glass doors? Way too easy to break in to. Unless of course, you're not on ground level.

[awblackmon]

One of our techs rolled up onto a customer in an apartment who had prepared for the install. He had a 5 gallon bucket on the patio with a pole. The pole had been plumbed level, and ready for the dish to be installed. The tech placed a monopole brace from the pole to the wall for extra support and mounted the dish. As for me, I would cut the pole off as much as I could to reduce the center of gravity before setting it in cement. The wind could really tip the dish over fast sticking so far up in the air! The monopoles he put on for extra support was a bit of a stretch for the no mounting to the wall rules I am sure.

[BattleZone]

While buckets of cement are allowed for basic dishes (though I don't recommend it), they aren't allowed for Ka/Ku (Slimline) dishes, as the Slimline is too heavy and to large (big sail area) and will move the bucket around very easily.

There are three basic solutions:

- a pole U-bolted to the railing (if allowed, and if the railing is sturdy enough; I don't recommend it)

- a tripod that can be bolted down to the floor

- a non-penetrating roof mount, aka "sled mount"

Oh, the joys of apartment living...

[berniec]

what i did was my balcony had metal bars running vertically every 4" or so to keep you from falling off. So what i did was have two metal plate cut about 15" x 15", and drill holes around all the edges. The dish mounts to on of the metal pieces which sits on one side of the metal slats, the other metal piece goes on the other side and then they get bolted to EACH OTHER, sandwhiching the crossbars of the balcony between the two metal plates. This worked perfectly for me for 3 years on my 11th story balcony that was right on the hudson river with high winds all the time.

[joe diamond]

what i did was my balcony had metal bars running vertically every 4" or so to keep you from falling off. So what i did was have two metal plate cut about 15" x 15", and drill holes around all the edges. The dish mounts to on of the metal pieces which sits on one side of the metal slats, the other metal piece goes on the other side and then they get bolted to EACH OTHER, sandwhiching the crossbars of the balcony between the two metal plates. This worked perfectly for me for 3 years on my 11th story balcony that was right on the hudson river with high winds all the time.

Now you are getting a feel for it!

Had a customer do exactly that with bigger steel & his chimney.

I'll look for your rig next time I use the Geo Washington Bridge.

joe

[jdspencer]

Ouch!!
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=02&p=RON4424&d=Ronard-Heavy-Duty-24-FT-Chimney-Mount-for-Slim-line-Satellie-Dish-%28RON4424%29&c=Mounting%20Supplies&sku=RON4424

[BattleZone]

I would never use any strap-mount system; I've seen far too many fail, and they're a huge pain to use. 6 lag shields costs about $2 and does a FAR better job.

[joe diamond]

Ouch!!
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=02&p=RON4424&d=Ronard-Heavy-Duty-24-FT-Chimney-Mount-for-Slim-line-Satellie-Dish-%28RON4424%29&c=Mounting%20Supplies&sku=RON4424
Wow,

I (we) gotta raise our prices. Using 1/4 inch steel in an 8 inch band with a 12 inch area where the mast bolts my customer said he could make another one to order for me for around $100.00.....I said I would try to sell them for $300.00. When painted you can't see them...but at some point cable looks pretty good.

Ouch indeed!

Joe