Upgrading tree-mount SD to HD (+SD)

[UhClem]

I did a self-install of an 18" round dish/dual-LNB about 20 feet up a solid/stable Beech tree (pic #1 and #2). It's been fine for seven years (until an ice-laden overhead limb fell through my feed cable last December). Now, I want HD !

I'll be adding an HR23 to my DSR-708 (Series 2 DirecTiVo); I get all my HD+SD from 99/101/103 so I figure a SlimLine/3-LNB is the correct dish to use. (I don't envision a need for more than 4 tuners, so SWM would seem overkill). There is currently two RG6 running from entry point through basement to below living room, then 4xRG6 up into LR. I expect to need 4xRG6 from new dish to entry point, then an additional 2xRG6 from there to the existing 4xRG6 to LR (used to have a 3x4 multi-sw servicing 2xSD-DVR). Am I OK so far?

So, back to the "dish up a tree" situation ... this is the only location where i have LOS ... really! The Beech trees (pic #1) are about 22-28 feet east of the house, and I need to shoot SW (AZ ~220 deg.) over a line of Eastern Hemlocks 140-150' away on the western property line (pic #3). I am wondering whether to use the existing mounting base (the hunk of 2"x10" plank in pic #2) for the new dish assembly or mount the new dish on a new base on the second Beech tree, which is 6-8' further east (hence, sights 3-5' higher at same mounting height as current). Any thoughts?

I have been using dishpointer.com (to verify my GPS coords) and gjullien.fr/satellite3.htm to assess LOS viability. Extrapolating from the inexact Sat. overlaps of last night's moon (one deg. east and two degrees lower), there is definite obstruction of LOS at eye-level but almost certainly clear sight at the 18-20' height (I couldn't verify because my knees are now kaput).

[ I am currently looking for an independent (and competent) installer; I am in Goffstown, just west of Manchester, NH. PMs please. ]

Question: Can the existing mast (pic #2) be used, with a 1.5"-to-2" adapter to temporarily mount the new SL3 just to get a stable base for a signal-strength checkout? Is this worthwhile? I'm inclined to put the new dish on the second Beech tree (on left in pic #1) just to increase my future margin on LOS; if good signals can be had from current mount point, that should help in selecting the new mounting height. Yes, I'm aware that the sun will be "spot on" with the 3 Sats on October 9th, but (1) I'd rather not wait one *more* week, and (2) Murphy says it will be totally cloudy then (just as it was today when the sun would have been a very good approximation, from eye-level, to where the Sats would appear from 18-20' up; se la vie).

2 more ??s:
1. What is the approximate rectangular dimensions of the bolt pattern on the mounting base of the AU9-SL3 ? (mine is in transit and I want to prepare a new "slab of wood".

2. Are the ends of the four stub leads from the SL3 male or female?

Thanks for any/all comments/suggestions.

[BattleZone]

The existing mast cannot be used at all with the new dish; aiming a Slimline requires nearly 10 times the aiming precision, and you'll never achieve that with a cobbled together mount. You'll need to mount the new, larger mast and support arms, with the mast perfectly plumb, in order to do any aiming tests.

There are several manufacturers of Slimline dishes, and some of the mast feet are about the same size as the one you've got, and some are a couple inches larger in both dimensions. In either case, they are much thicker and heavy duty, as is needed for the much larger, much heavier Slimline dish.

The LNBs come with jumpers on them, and barrel connectors (female) at the end of the jumpers with weather bushings already installed.

[RobertE]

This will be interesting.

:new_popco !pepsi!

[David MacLeod]

chainsaw time.

[jdspencer]

SWM may be overkill, but if you get all SWM capable receivers, then I'd go for the SWMLine SL3 dish. But, the downside is that you'll be limited to 8 tuners (DVRs use 2).

Getting the mast plumb will be a problem. I also see a problem with the tree growing a little, as this could affect the more precise alignment needed for the Ka satellites.

This would be a good replacement for the tree.
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=RON5712-50

[Matt9876]

In the old days we would put up a tower for a ground plane CB radio antenna and nobody thought anything about it,Now days you suggest putting a dish on a tower and people look at you like you lost your mind.

It really doesn't cost that much to get a bucket truck and put something in that will stand the test of time.:)

[carl6]

I'll be adding an HR23 to my DSR-708 (Series 2 DirecTiVo); ..., so SWM would seem overkill).

Regardless of tree or no tree, the DSR-708 is not SWM compatible, so you do not even have SWM as an option.

With regard to mounting, as others have noted the Slimine dish needs to be rock solid, with the mast perfectly plumb. One or two monopoles in addition to the main mast to give a tripod style mount. The mast size is different (larger).

[Shades228]

Red Oaks are the only tree that will pass a QA.

[BattleZone]

I think the OP knows that his install won't pass QC, but then, he's doing it himself, so it doesn't have to. It just has to work.

[UhClem]

The existing mast cannot be used .... You'll need to mount the new, larger mast and support arms, with the mast perfectly plumb, in order to do any aiming tests.

There are several manufacturers of Slimline dishes, and some of the mast feet are about the same size as the one you've got, and some are a couple inches larger in both dimensions. In either case, they are much thicker and heavy duty, as is needed for the much larger, much heavier Slimline dish.

...

Thanks much. A false negative via the cobbled-together aiming test would have been a misleading waste of time/effort.

Is there a particular manufacturer/model of AU9 that is sturdier (potentially more stable) than the others? Similarly, is there a particular make/model of SL3 that is most reliable (longevity/accuracy)? Given the sub-ideal conditions, I would really want to "do it right and (hopefully) do it once. (As Matt9876 implies below).

...

Getting the mast plumb will be a problem. I also see a problem with the tree growing a little, as this could affect the more precise alignment needed for the Ka satellites.

This would be a good replacement for the tree.
solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=RON5712-50

While I do appreciate the importance of having the mast plumb (especially so because of, even minor, tree trunk growth), I don't see why this flat slanted surface (the hunk of plank) is more problematic than a typical slanted roof. Enlightenment, please.

Thanks for the link to the tripod/mast; interesting, but aestetically unacceptable.

...

It really doesn't cost that much to get a bucket truck and put something in that will stand the test of time.:)

Neat suggestion! I'll be giving this serious consideration. It would allow me to do it myself,
even with bum knees. But, getting the aiming "dead on", without a signal meter and w/o any previous experience, concerns me. Any need for follow-up tweaking would best be avoided.

... the DSR-708 is not SWM compatible, so you do not even have SWM as an option.

...

Oh yeah, "legacy receivers". Thanks. No tears from me -- four tuners is fine.

So, do any of you veteran techs have any direct experience with a roughly similar HD tree-mount situation? 20'+ up, 16"+ diameter trunk, hardwood, Slimline dish.

Or, do i just crawl back to Comcast (after 7 years of blissful separation) ?

[RobertE]

Neat suggestion! I'll be giving this serious consideration. It would allow me to do it myself,
even with bum knees. But, getting the aiming "dead on", without a signal meter and w/o any previous experience, concerns me. Any need for follow-up tweaking would best be avoided.


Considering the sensitivity that is needed to maintain good signal levels with the Ka band, this tree mount will need to be tweaked periodicly. Possibly quite frequently.

[jdspencer]

I'm curious as to how the monopoles would be attached?

As to the aesthetics of the tower, you could plant a vine to grow on it. :)

[MrShowtime]

I'm curious as to how the monopoles would be attached?

As to the aesthetics of the tower, you could plant a vine to grow on it. :)

you can kind of wrap them around the tree like they are hugging it. I've seen it on a telephone pole before. It wasn't going anywhere unless the pole fell over.

[goblazers_6]

Red Oaks are the only tree that will pass a QA.

:lol:

[UhClem]

Considering the sensitivity that is needed to maintain good signal levels with the Ka band, this tree mount will need to be tweaked periodicly. Possibly quite frequently.

That bad, huh? I was thinking, maybe, once every 3-4 years, at most. You're making it sound like a Spring & Fall ritual. Of course, my estimate could very well be biased by "optomistic self-interest"; but, really I just figured that if the mast was as plumb as humanly possible, tree growth in the lower trunk area [ < ~20 feet] (what, an inch per year) would have no/negligible effect on the aim. Remember, this tree is likely 150-200 years old, 75-90 feet tall.

Based on your signature quote, RobertE, I assume you might have some (pseudo-)direct experience which would support your position. Please share ... I would much rather face that reality now (and forego the project), than proceed (and regret it).

Please note that this just might be academic, and I sure do hope so. In my opening post, I had stated

... this is the only location where I have LOS ... really!

Well, I had based that on a Supervisor Tech (from Multiband, DirecTV's major contractor here) having assessed my roof and yard, prior to "closing out" my installation order as a "No LOS".

After getting the mild "reality check" from the responses to that opening post here, I started pondering: Since all three (DTV) installers I have dealt with have been completely incompetent, why should I assume that this SupvTech isn't defective also. I pulled myself up the ladder (my knees don't climb anything) to the eastern edge of my roof, at the astronomically correct time of (that) day, and ... Eureka! Stay tuned. (I hope this doesn't violate posting protocol, but I'm going to start a new thread. I expect that most readers of this forum see
"tree mount" and "HD" in the subject, and just snicker and skip to next.

Please join me in the thread "Supervisor Tech says *no LOS*". Thanks.