View Full Version : Fairly Unique Help needed - SWM ?
I have read as much as one guy can be expected to read and think my situation is a little different..so I'm breaking down and asking....
I have 5 receivers but I'll focus on two and I can figure the rest out on my own. My equipment is as follows: Slimline 5 dish and 72.5 dish for locals, HR-22 DVR and older Hughes HDVR2 plus a 6 (4 from slimline 2 from 72.5) x 8 multiswitch tieing the dishes together outside.
I've received conflicting info on one thing that may resolve this before it even starts. Can I swap out my current multiswitch with an SWM? That would solve all my problems but I've read it won't work - also read it will.
Here's the odder part. I just redid my setup and excluded the 72.5 dish and still have locals....so I don't need it 3 of my receivers. However, I think the only way I can get locals through my HDVR2 is with the 72.5...so I do still need it.
So, all in all, here is my question....how do I keep the current setup and incorporate a SWM...or is it impossible? To make it completely I need the 72.5 dish, the slimline 5, of course, and would like a SWM.
Thanks in advance.
OK, the more I read the less I know. I might just need a new house....and some new receivers. In 1996 I purchased a Sony for $800. I ran one line from the dish. It had one LNB output so it serviced one receiver. Pretty funny when I think about it.
A swm 8 multiswitch can support the 72.5 locals and the older legacy receiver (the hdvr2). The 72.5 locals days are numbered so at some point you will have to swap the older receiver out or you won't be able to receive locals at all. Keep in mind that a swm8 only supports 8 tuners and each dvr hooked up to it counts as 2 (not counting the 3 legacy ports). Also installing a swm 8 at home means you are pretty much on your own as DirecTV only uses swm lnbs for home installs but they don't support 72.5 or legacy receivers.
Thanks for the response.
If I understood, I can replace my current Zinwell 6x8 with this SWM-8. Now you said it can run 8 tuners but does that mean that it only has 4 outputs? I have a two HR22s, the HDVR2, and 2 D10s so I would need 5 outputs. I can't tell what's what by looking at the pictures but it does look like maybe there are only 4 outputs.
doctor j
10-04-09, 08:01 PM
There are actually only two "outputs". With high frequency splitters either or both together can output to 8 tuners 4 DVR's or 8 singles or any combination that is equal to or less than 8. This does not count the "legacy" outputs than can supply 3 single line outputs to older equipment with 101 110 and 119 signals. To be complete it can also output KA high spot beam LIL's in your area but cannot get any of the KA low national (Conus) channels.
I think you only need one line from your 72.5 sat to the multi switch or the SWM. If you have Slimline & 95 international & 72.5. 95 goes to flex #1 and 72.5 goes to flex #2. If only Slimline and 72.5 , then 72.5 goes into Flex #1.
Hope this helps.
Doctor j
There are actually only two "outputs". With high frequency splitters either or both together can output to 8 tuners 4 DVR's or 8 singles or any combination that is equal to or less than 8. This does not count the "legacy" outputs than can supply 3 single line outputs to older equipment with 101 110 and 119 signals. To be complete it can also output KA high spot beam LIL's in your area but cannot get any of the KA low national (Conus) channels.
I think you only need one line from your 72.5 sat to the multi switch or the SWM. If you have Slimline & 95 international & 72.5. 95 goes to flex #1 and 72.5 goes to flex #2. If only Slimline and 72.5 , then 72.5 goes into Flex #1.
Hope this helps.
Doctor j
That helps more than hours of reading has. Great information, great name...thanks, Doc!
I guess I'll order a SWM-8 and ditch my current multiswitch.
By the way, part of my confusion stemmed from people talking about switches in the LNB, etc....but I think I've determined that having the Slimline 5 gives what I already need there...correct?
Thanks, again.
jdspencer
10-04-09, 08:07 PM
The SWM8 has 2 SWM capable outputs and 3 legacy outputs. The units can only handle a total of 8 tuners on SWM capable receivers. Only your HR22's are SWM capable. The other units will need a total of 4 connections and the SWM only has 3. So the HDVR2 would have to be reduced to single tuner mode if you go this route. The SWM outputs of the SWM8 can be split to feed the HR22's (one connection to each, but counts as two).
I was posting as you were and missed this post of yours.
By the way, part of my confusion stemmed from people talking about switches in the LNB, etc....but I think I've determined that having the Slimline 5 gives what I already need there...correct?
Thanks, again.The Slimline 5 has four outputs, so it can only support 4 tuners. So you'll need a multiswitch (WB68) to increase the number of outputs. Which is what you have with your current equipment, I'd stay with what you have.
OK...seems like more conflicting info...are you saying that I can't get another HR22 (which I plan to do) and use 3 single wire solutions?
You also mention SWM capable receivers...obviously my others aren't. Or are you saying the way it works I can have 8 tuners (using 4 single wire outputs) as a max? What is the max number of legacy connections then? Confusing.
dsw2112
10-04-09, 08:17 PM
Thanks for the response.
If I understood, I can replace my current Zinwell 6x8 with this SWM-8. Now you said it can run 8 tuners but does that mean that it only has 4 outputs? I have a two HR22s, the HDVR2, and 2 D10s so I would need 5 outputs. I can't tell what's what by looking at the pictures but it does look like maybe there are only 4 outputs.
What are your goals with a SWM system? With your current setup you will need a SWM8 AND a 6X8 switch (in parallel) to accomplish what you need. The SWM8 can feed the 2 HR's through the SWM ports(as these are the only SWM compatible receivers), but the legacy ports would not be sufficient for your needs of your older DVR and 2 D10's (4 legacy tuners, but only 3 legacy ports on SWM8.) Putting the 6X8 in parallel would add the additional port necessary, but you can also use the older DVR in single tuner mode which would eliminate the need for the 6X8. Clear as mud?
BTW, if you decide to put the two switches in parallel you would also need to split the 72.5 signal to each switch.
dsw2112
10-04-09, 08:21 PM
OK...seems like more conflicting info...are you saying that I can't get another HR22 (which I plan to do) and use 3 single wire solutions?
You also mention SWM capable receivers...obviously my others aren't. Or are you saying the way it works I can have 8 tuners (using 4 single wire outputs) as a max? What is the max number of legacy connections then? Confusing.
SWM8 = 8 SWM tuners and 3 legacy tuners
With a SWM8 you can use 4 DVR's with a single wire solution. It then has three legacy ports for your old equipment. If you use your old DVR in single tuner mode a single SWM8 will solve all of your needs.
doctor j
10-04-09, 08:23 PM
Try this info and others at that site:
http://www.weaknees.com/pdf/swm-ref-guide.pdf
Doctor j
OK, thanks, guys. Knowing I can use both together solves my issue. I don't need the 72.5 sat for the HR2Xs as my locals are coming through without the 72.5 dish. I think the long term solution is that I don't need the 6x8 but as long as the HDVR2 is working the wife wants to use it. When the 72.5 sat goes away, I won't need the HDVR2. I'll have 4 HR2Xs and a couple newer single tuner models.
Good God....it's one thing after another. After looking at that diagram, I realized that the power inserter goes inside the house. Now I have the outputs coming into my house from 3 different places....really going to have to figure out how to make this work. I'm not sure what I'm going to be able to do other than have a run come inside and jet back out...weird.
dsw2112
10-04-09, 08:44 PM
Good God....it's one thing after another. After looking at that diagram, I realized that the power inserter goes inside the house. Now I have the outputs coming into my house from 3 different places....really going to have to figure out how to make this work. I'm not sure what I'm going to be able to do other than have a run come inside and jet back out...weird.
You might be making this a bit more difficult than it actually is. The PI can go right behind one of your HR's. I.E. wall jack ->coax->pi->coax->DVR.
Having to be inside my house (behind one of my receivers) is the exact problem. As it sits right now, I have my switch mounted on the side of the house with 8 lines coming through my exterior walls in 4 places.
dsw2112
10-04-09, 09:01 PM
Having to be inside my house (behind one of my receivers) is the exact problem. As it sits right now, I have my switch mounted on the side of the house with 8 lines coming through my exterior walls in 4 places.
SWM8 would go right next to (or in place of) that switch. Use the following splitter to split SWM ports (also place this outdoors.) http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=02&p=SWS-4&d=DIRECTV-SWS4-Satellite-4Way-Wide-Band-(2-2150-MHz)-Splitter-(SWS4)
Hook up cables as appropriate. Whichever cable has the HRXX and PI on it goes to the the power passing port on above splitter. The other end of the power passing splitter port goes to the SWM8 (SWM-1 port.)
dsw2112
10-04-09, 09:04 PM
Here's a good pic for help placing a SWM8 and WB68 in parallel. http://www.weaknees.com/pdf/swm-wb68.pdf
If you use the power passing splitter I listed you can put the PI behind the DVR.
The SWM8 can be mounted outside. It has two SWM outputs on it. The first one must go to the power inserter (which must be inside). That can be split and run to multiple units, as needed/desired. The second output from the SWM can be split and run to multiple units as needed/desired. Combined though, you can have a maximum of 8 tuners fed by the SWM.
The SWM8 also has 3 legacy outputs. You can use those to feed a maximum of three legacy tuners. You mention an HDVR2 and two D10's, which is four tuners - more than the number of legacy outputs. So you will not be able to supply all 4 legacy tuners from an SWM8.
As someone noted, the 72.5 is going away in the predictable future, so the locals that you are currently getting from 72.5 will go away. At that time, you must have mpeg4 capable receivers to get locals. The HDVR2 and the D10's won't work for that.
If you are seriously considering SWM, then my suggestion would be to get rid of the legacy equipment now and go to all mpeg4 capable equipment. But you need to keep the total tuner count (not receiver count) to 8. That's 4 DVRs, or a mix of DVRs and non-DVR receivers that total 8 or fewer tuners (2 tuners to a DVR).
It is also possible to run an SWM8 and a WB68 in parallel, giving you additional non-SWM ports to use. You could feed the 72.5 to the WB68 only (as you really don't need it for the mpeg4 capable receivers). That would allow you to keep your legacy equipment until such time as your 72.5 locals go away (and beyond that as long as you don't need locals on those units).
rudeney
10-04-09, 09:20 PM
The SWM8 also has 3 legacy outputs. You can use those to feed a maximum of three legacy tuners. You mention an HDVR2 and two D10's, which is four tuners - more than the number of legacy outputs. So you will not be able to supply all 4 legacy tuners from an SWM8.
You can use a "legacy" multiswitch (such as the old 4x8) on these ports to support more tuners.
It is also possible to run an SWM8 and a WB68 in parallel, giving you additional non-SWM ports to use. You could feed the 72.5 to the WB68 only (as you really don't need it for the mpeg4 capable receivers). That would allow you to keep your legacy equipment until such time as your 72.5 locals go away (and beyond that as long as you don't need locals on those units).
This is exactly the setup I have. I don't have a need for the 72.5 dish, but I use the WB68 to support my legacy tuners. It works great.
dsw2112
10-04-09, 09:37 PM
You could feed the 72.5 to the WB68 only (as you really don't need it for the mpeg4 capable receivers). That would allow you to keep your legacy equipment until such time as your 72.5 locals go away (and beyond that as long as you don't need locals on those units).
This 72.5 routing is only true if you don't use the legacy ports on the SWM8 for locals.
You can use a "legacy" multiswitch (such as the old 4x8) on these ports to support more tuners.
Some have mentioned problems (a while back) with the 4X8 legacy switches cascaded from the SWM8. Since you already have a 6X8 I wouldn't recommend purchasing the 4X8.
I think I got it, fellas. Thanks for all the help.
I'd like to ditch the old equipment now but sure don't want to pay for it....plus the wife HAS to have the HDVR2....the receiver she didn't want to switch to when she had to give up ultimate TV. :lol:
OK, thanks, guys. Knowing I can use both together solves my issue. I don't need the 72.5 sat for the HR2Xs as my locals are coming through without the 72.5 dish. I think the long term solution is that I don't need the 6x8 but as long as the HDVR2 is working the wife wants to use it. When the 72.5 sat goes away, I won't need the HDVR2. I'll have 4 HR2Xs and a couple newer single tuner models.One of your problems is you haven't learned how to count. 4HR2Xs is 8 tuners and a couple new single tuner models is 2 more tuners than a SWM can currently support. You will need a WB616 for 10 tuners.:):):)
dsw2112
10-04-09, 10:09 PM
One of your problems is you haven't learned how to count. 4HR2Xs is 8 tuners and a couple new single tuner models is 2 more tuners than a SWM can currently support. You will need a WB616 for 10 tuners.:):):)
Or he can just leave the 6X8 in parallel with the SWM8...
One of your problems is you haven't learned how to count. 4HR2Xs is 8 tuners and a couple new single tuner models is 2 more tuners than a SWM can currently support. You will need a WB616 for 10 tuners.:):):)
I'm not sure where I said I would be using both tuners on all 4 receivers. The one thing I did pick up on is that I can have 8 connections max. Since I'll already have the 6x8 connected I doubt I will disconnect it. Time will tell. Thanks, tho.
... BTW, if you decide to put the two switches in parallel you would also need to split the 72.5 signal to each switch.
Just an additional note;
In case the OP sees the need to you cannot actually "split" the feed from a 72.5 dish. You must run an additional line from the second unused output of the LNB mounted on the 72.5 dish to the flexport of the other multiswitch. That's two lines from the 72.5 dish with one going to flexport 1 on the SWM-8 and the other to flexport 1 on the WB68.
But again the 72.5 locals are definitely going away and all this regarding it's dish's hookup options will soon be academic anyway...
More good points...thanks.
I looked at that diagram, DSW...helped tie it all together in my mind.
One last question with this set-up. I can clearly see that the PI is after the SWM and inside coming off SWM1 output. I see there is also a SWM2....can each only power 4 tuners or can one power 2 and the other 6?
I'm starting to think I'm just going to get 2 of these SWM-8s and be done with that part of it for a while.
I remember when I thought it was a little dumb that anyone would need a HD Tivo - I was thinking that a guy could stand to watch recorded TV in SD...what a stupid thought.
I kept looking around and think I answered my own question. It looks like you can purchase 1x8 splitters so all 8 tuners can be used off just SWM1....I think. It's odd to me that all capacity could be used through just one output but I don't have a clue how these things work.
Altcool
10-05-09, 12:08 AM
I kept looking around and think I answered my own question. It looks like you can purchase 1x8 splitters so all 8 tuners can be used off just SWM1....I think. It's odd to me that all capacity could be used through just one output but I don't have a clue how these things work.
Your right that will work
Just an additional note;
In case the OP sees the need to you cannot actually "split" the feed from a 72.5 dish. You must run an additional line from the second unused output of the LNB mounted on the 72.5 dish to the flexport of the other multiswitch. That's two lines from the 72.5 dish with one going to flexport 1 on the SWM-8 and the other to flexport 1 on the WB68.
But again the 72.5 locals are definitely going away and all this regarding it's dish's hookup options will soon be academic anyway...
Not an expert on the 72.5 stuff by any means but I don't see why splitting the 72.5 output wouldn't work. It only uses half the transponders from 72.5 using 1 polarity. There for only a single output carries the entire signal that directv needs to use. Since it is always going to be the same thing it should be splittable just like you can split the 4 lines going into the switch as long as you match the inputs correctly.
Thanks, Evan. For me it won't matter as I already have two cables coming off the dish and it would be just as easy to run one to each. Some others may find a final answer useful, though.
I keep reading about SWM LNBs....I'm assuming I have this already with the slimline 5 but what exactly is this?
I keep reading about SWM LNBs....I'm assuming I have this already with the slimline 5 but what exactly is this?
Single Wire Multiswitch, or SWM, technology provides one coax output which can be split and distributed to multiple receivers/DVRs. If you have two (or more) coax coming from your Slimline dish, you do not have SWM. If you have an external multiswitch (WB68), you do not have SWM. You cannot use an SWM LNB with a second dish (either 72.5 for locals or 95 for international), because you must use an external multiswitch to combine the additional dish(es). To do that, you must have a non-SWM LNB assembly.
I think what you are saying is that a SWM LNB is simply the SWM switch built in versus the external swtich. At first I thought the SWM LNB references were talking about the LNB being compatible with SWM equipment - not the actual switch itself.
More than anything I didn't want to purchase one of these only to find out I need something else.
Thanks, again.
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