Coax over Ethernet... Sat over Ethernet

[CJTE]

Family is getting a house built.
Ive got 3,000 feet of CAT6. 160 feet of RG-6. (Split into 40ft sections).
Rather than purchase a whole bunch of RG-6, I'm looking for a different solution.

One option in the back of my head is getting a couple of these transceivers
(http://www.svideo.com/500039.html) then using RF or IR blasters. But that's not gonna cut it if HD or cable is in the future.

I have an awesome opportunity to get to this house between the framing and drywall stages and install everything I just can't necessarily afford the coax right now, whereas the CAT6 I already have and could probably get a bit more of if I ask around.

[mickcris]

you can get 1k feet of rg6 for around $60 shipped from monoprice.com

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10216&cs_id=1021604&p_id=3548&seq=1&format=2

probably a lot cheaper and easier in the long run than jury rigging something.

[CJTE]

That's cheating. I was looking about $120/1k ft. :)

and TV over Ethernet and IPTV are not jerry-rigging. There are plenty of deathly-expensive devices that allow you to do all kinds of neat stuff like that, I was looking for a smaller in-home solution.

[mickcris]

i thought you were trying to save money. it seems like that other stuff would end up costing more.

[CJTE]

I was being sarcastic when I said it was cheating. I actually have a bad habit of not checking monoprice.com but Ive had some bad experiences with online retailers (namely, TigerDirect, back in the day) so I stay away from just about everywhere except newegg haha. My point is, thank-you for the link, I will probably end up purchasing a spool or two at that price.

Corporate TV over Ethernet systems are expensive. Those are the kinds of systems put into hotels and apt's, etc.
I was asking if anyone knew of solutions for the home. For example Netgears MoCA (but the reverse). D-Link also has some Internet over Coax gear.

Maybe powerline adapters but for Coax instead of phone hahaha.

I'm curious if anyone has any other suggestions whether I decide to go with the RG-6 from Monoprice or not, it's always good to know about other technologies.

[JosephB]

There are HDMI to Cat5 adapters, but they cost on the order of $200 at each end of the wire, so you'd be looking at $400 per outlet. Just drop two cat5, two RG6, and be done with it. Your bank account will thank you

[HoTat2]

My question is, unless the price is simply too prohibitive for the RG-6 cable, since you have the golden opportunity to freely install both types of cable runs why would you really want to blend your home network computer ethernet traffic (assuming you will have a home computer network of course) with streaming video files hogging bandwidth on the same cat5E/6 cable network, when the favored approach is to keep them in separate ethernet clouds?

For instance with the upcoming DECA solution high bandwidth MRV will use the installed RG-6 satellite cable in a SWM environment, which is isolated from the home network's ethernet data and bandwidth used by the networked computers. (cat5e/6, WiFi, PowerLine adapters, etc.). With the exception of the need for occasional internet access by any of the DirecTV receivers through the home router.

Therefore if you can I would certainly install both, cost permitting of course...

[CJTE]

There are HDMI to Cat5 adapters, but they cost on the order of $200 at each end of the wire, so you'd be looking at $400 per outlet. Just drop two cat5, two RG6, and be done with it. Your bank account will thank you

Yea Ive been checking out the HDMI to Cat5 adapters at CES for the last 3 years. There are Coax to Cat5 baluns, but they are more geared towards commercial installs.
I'm dropping 3 Cat6 as it is. Ive got atleast 8 500-1000ft spools of Cat6. I've got 4 rolls of RG-6 that are 40ft each. Seeing as that I was about a hairline away from being laid off last friday, i'm not super excited about spending half-a-month's mortgage payment on RG-6.

My question is, unless the price is simply too prohibitive for the RG-6 cable, since you have the golden opportunity to freely install both types of cable runs why would you really want to blend your home network computer ethernet traffic (assuming you will have a home computer network of course) with streaming video files hogging bandwidth on the same cat5E/6 cable network, when the favored approach is to keep them in separate ethernet clouds?
I apologize but I don't remember indicating that I had intended to blend them. I'm going to have 2 Networks and 2 phone lines as is (1 full gigabit using all 8 pins, one 100Mbit using 4 pins, and 2 phone lines using 2 pins each). It wouldn't be a big deal for me to run a 3rd and/or 4th cat6 line if I could find some cheap Coax to Ethernet Baluns, especially if they supported high and low frequencies (DirecTVs ka and ku bands).


For instance with the upcoming DECA solution high bandwidth MRV will use the installed RG-6 satellite cable in a SWM environment, which is isolated from the home network's ethernet data and bandwidth used by the networked computers. (cat5e/6, WiFi, PowerLine adapters, etc.). With the exception of the need for occasional internet access by any of the DirecTV receivers through the home router.

Therefore if you can I would certainly install both, cost permitting of course...

That's the biggest thing, cost-permitting. I've started an alternate thread on exactly what I need RG-6 wise so I can price it out. If I would've known this months ago I probably could've gotten (2) 1000ft spools of RG-6 from work but its way too late in the game to start that.

[ffemtreed]

If you are building a new house its silly to take all these shortcuts and workarounds. Do it right or don't do it at all.

You can get cable pretty cheap, go spend a bit and run that extra network cable instead of hacking a cat6 to run two phone lines and a 100mb Ethernet connection. 100mb is on its way out, and with all the newer video streaming and central media servers you will be happy with the gigabit connection in 3 years.

Seriously, step back and look at the total cost of that 3000-5000 sq ft house you are building and then ask yourself is saving 500 bucks really worth the future headaches you are going to experience.

If money is that tight, I would be finding other areas I can cut down to save money instead of a hacked structured cabling job.

PS -- its not to late to order cable, You can have it next day if you pay extra for shipping. I got 1000ft of RG6 from monoprice in 3 days and just paid normal shipping. It's not a project to order cable.

[JosephB]

Baluns are going to be considerably more expensive than the cable you'd save and would be, frankly, a piss-poor solution. The cheapest way is to buy the cable you need and run it. 100ft of RG-6 probably costs $10-20. An HDMI balun to run HDMI over Cat5 is going to be $400 for ONE outlet. That doesn't count IR blasters and all that garbage.

[CJTE]

If you are building a new house its silly to take all these shortcuts and workarounds. Do it right or don't do it at all.

You can get cable pretty cheap, go spend a bit and run that extra network cable instead of hacking a cat6 to run two phone lines and a 100mb Ethernet connection. 100mb is on its way out, and with all the newer video streaming and central media servers you will be happy with the gigabit connection in 3 years.

Seriously, step back and look at the total cost of that 3000-5000 sq ft house you are building and then ask yourself is saving 500 bucks really worth the future headaches you are going to experience.

If money is that tight, I would be finding other areas I can cut down to save money instead of a hacked structured cabling job.

PS -- its not to late to order cable, You can have it next day if you pay extra for shipping. I got 1000ft of RG6 from monoprice in 3 days and just paid normal shipping. It's not a project to order cable.

Apparently you didn't read my post... I said I'm running 3 Cat6 cables. The 3rd cable isn't going to be terminated right away though, because I'm not sure on what I'm doing with it yet. I already have a gigabit network. You have no idea what I'm using the 100Megabit network for so how do you know whether or not it'll suffice? Running 2 100Mbit networks on 1 Cat5e cable is a fully supported standard just like PoE so there is no reason I can't use the existing 4 pins to run 2 phone lines. It's not a "hack job" seeing as that it'll all be punched down in the comm room and at the faceplate.

Monoprice cables have a copperclad steel semiconductor, where as for services like DirecTV you want a solid copper semiconductor otherwise you COULD have problems passing the voltage from the receiver up the line to the multiswitch/dish LNBs (I just learned this).

Money is about that tight. Only "bare essentials" are being covered. Seeing as that I already have tons of Cat6 that isn't an issue. Minimal furniture is already acquired, along with dishes, etc. Towels, Blinds, etc still need to be purchased.

//

Thanks for everyone's input. Seeing as that there is obviously no consumer-grade equipment that will do what I'm looking for at this time, I would like to imagine that this thread can be ended on this good note.

Baluns are going to be considerably more expensive than the cable you'd save and would be, frankly, a piss-poor solution. The cheapest way is to buy the cable you need and run it. 100ft of RG-6 probably costs $10-20. An HDMI balun to run HDMI over Cat5 is going to be $400 for ONE outlet. That doesn't count IR blasters and all that garbage.

Maybe I'll go with Slingplayers for the SD receivers and DirecTV2PC for the HDDVR's lol.

[JosephB]

Maybe I'll go with Slingplayers for the SD receivers and DirecTV2PC for the HDDVR's lol.

That's still going to be more expensive. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to avoid or accomplish. Do you not want a receiver at each TV or something?

[ffemtreed]

Apparently you didn't read my post... I said I'm running 3 Cat6 cables. The 3rd cable isn't going to be terminated right away though, because I'm not sure on what I'm doing with it yet. I already have a gigabit network. You have no idea what I'm using the 100Megabit network for so how do you know whether or not it'll suffice? Running 2 100Mbit networks on 1 Cat5e cable is a fully supported standard just like PoE so there is no reason I can't use the existing 4 pins to run 2 phone lines. It's not a "hack job" seeing as that it'll all be punched down in the comm room and at the faceplate.

Monoprice cables have a copperclad steel semiconductor, where as for services like DirecTV you want a solid copper semiconductor otherwise you COULD have problems passing the voltage from the receiver up the line to the multiswitch/dish LNBs (I just learned this).

Money is about that tight. Only "bare essentials" are being covered. Seeing as that I already have tons of Cat6 that isn't an issue. Minimal furniture is already acquired, along with dishes, etc. Towels, Blinds, etc still need to be purchased.

//

Thanks for everyone's input. Seeing as that there is obviously no consumer-grade equipment that will do what I'm looking for at this time, I would like to imagine that this thread can be ended on this good note.



Maybe I'll go with Slingplayers for the SD receivers and DirecTV2PC for the HDDVR's lol.


Your whole post was about trying to do shortcuts and workarounds. That is a hack job. I also question where in the IEEE spec does it specify you can run two 100mb Ethernet on the same cable. It doesn't matter what you are doing with that 100mb network now, its what you can possibly be doing in 3 to 5 years out. It doesn't matter how it is punched down its still stretching what the cable was designed to do, yes it works, yes I have done it before with existing cabling in walls. I would never dream of doing that in a brand new building. I would also bet you will have trouble meeting the minimum untwist you are allowed by IEEE standards for Cat5 and esp for Cat 6.

As others have told you already, your workarounds are going to end up costing you more money than if you would just buy the cable and run it. You will also save yourself a lot of headaches in the future trying to troubleshoot something.

you might see your doubling of data and voice as normal, but if one of my techs did that they would be written up and the next time they tried that they would be fired on the spot. I am done in this thread, I was only trying to help.

[Grentz]

RG-6 is cheap dude, WAY cheaper than any balun solution. Baluns are usually only good IMO if you have no other option of running the proper wire.

[houskamp]

or better yet put plastic PVC in walls so you can run anything later..