Sky Angel forces Daystar off of Dish Line Up?

[TNGTony]

Sky Angel sued Dish Network several months ago claiming that they have exclusivity over those religious channels and possibly any additional Christian channels per agreement with Echostar. The courts agreed late today. I haven't found any news stories yet, but I received an e-mail from a frequent contributor about this a few minutes ago. I imediately tuned to Daystar and they were talking about how disappointed they were with Sky Angel and the fact that they (Daystar) were fighting this.

So...look for channels 9408 and 9414 to disappear from the PI line-up! BTW I beleive the clincher for Sky Angel was the fact that Dish came to a retrasmission agreement with Daystar locals in many markets to use channel 9408 nationally and move it to 119° instead of the local channel limited to the local DMA.

Daystar is available on Sky Angel channel 9713
a FamilyNet LP affiliate from Roanoke is available on Sky Angel channel 9716 (Liberty Broadcast Network)

See ya
Tony

[TNGTony]

I'm watching "Celebration" on Daystar right now (1:12am). They are currently demonizing Sky Angel about "thowing Daystar off Dish".

They say they are "hours from being removed from Dish Network and maybe even Sky Angel".

They are talking about whom to contact at Sky Angel.

See ya
Tony

[TimL]

I wouldnt miss Daystar a great deal..Much of their programming is already seen on other Sky Angel Channels..It is sad when a battle like this has to be so nasty among Christian entities. A few weeks back there was a controversy about Gospel Music Television asking for Money for Sky Angel to carry them when Sky Angel provides all their channels free space on their system..All they ask is for on-air ad support.

Tim Lones

[Adam Richey]

What kind of exclusive contract is it? If Daystar is on DirecTV, I see NO reason why Dish couldn't have it.

[TNGTony]

http://www.skyangel.com/echostarlawsuit has more information from the Sky Angel side.

BTW according to this program, Dominion remported that Sky Angel has 150,000 subscribers and Dish has reported 9,000,000 subscribers.

This is why Daystar is going to fight back.

See ya
Tony

[TNGTony]

Ogre, it was an agreement between Dish and Sky Angel in 1996 that said that Sky Angel cannot carry secular programming at the same time Dish could not carry predominantly christian channels excempt TBN, EWTN and Angel One. Check out the link in the post above.

DirecTV is not on the same system as Dish. This is the same type of contract that USSB used to have with DirecTV. DirecTV could not carry HBO, Viacom channels or other movie channels except Starz/Encore. And USSB could not carry cable channels or Starz/Encore. They also shared the same system.

See ya
Tony

[Darkman]

Tony - do you know which channel #s will go away from EPG?
Or will be substituted with some other channels, etc? (if so - substituted with which channels?)

[JMikeF]

It is sad when a battle like this has to be so nasty among Christian entities.
Yes, it seems they lose sight of what's truly important....

[Scott Greczkowski]

Shame on Sky Angel, you think they would be happy to let others "spread the word to the masses" but now it appears they want to be the exclusive voice of God in the sky. :shrug:

I still would love to see The University Network (Dr Gene Scott) on Dish Network however I feel this will never happen as Sky Angel will claim that Dr Scott is a religious program.

And while Doc Scott may give his wacky sermons, I dont think it fits in with the Sky Angel Christan Belief formula especially when they show music videos with Doc Scott walking around with 4 or 5 playboy models attached to his arms looking at Horses. :D

[Cyclone]

I'm trying so hard to care, but it just doesn't seem to be working.

[Bill R]

Shame on Sky Angel, you think they would be happy to let others "spread the word to the masses" but now it appears they want to be the exclusive voice of God in the sky. :shrug: :D
I have to agree with you Scott. It doesn't seem very "christian-like".

One has to wonder "if" and what sort of "action" DISH will take against Sky Angel. I don't think Charlie and Rev. Bob are getting along very well these days.

[TNGTony]

Darkman, the channels affected are 9408 and 9414. They are still on right now. But unless Dish gets a Stay pending appeal, they were ordered off "immediately".

See ya
Tony

[Darkman]

Thanks Tony...

[music_beans]

I sense that they will move to DirecTV in the future? (If they go, that give E* room for MORE LOCALS! :D The now defunct USSB used the DirecTV system like Sky Angel does with DISH. Moving to DirecTV doesn't sound bad. But MORE LOCALS! :D )

[Scott Greczkowski]

If they go, that give E* room for MORE LOCALS!Not quite, by law Dish Network (as well as DirecTV) are required to have a certain number of "public interest" channels in their lineup.

These channels will be replaced by other Public Interest channels, the space will not be used by new locals

[music_beans]

I meant if the WHOLE Sky Angel lineup left for DirecTV, not just those 2.

[Scott Greczkowski]

The Sky Angle service is not just a lineup, Sky Angle is its own DBS company. Sky Angle owns Transponder licences in the Sky.

[music_beans]

I know that, but what I mean is that if they decide to tear up the contract, transfer their transponder license to DTV, and just leave the empty transponders to DISH. (Of course, they would have to get another licence for them though. ) I am just wondering if their contract with Dominion is in Peril.

The Sky Angle service is not just a lineup, Sky Angle is its own DBS company. Sky Angle owns Transponder licences in the Sky.

It is Sky ANGEL. If it was Sky Angle, it would be a distant learning service. :)

[Mike123abc]

What Dish should have done is simply only turn on the "national" feed of the networks for subs that should recieve them for the LIL package. But, they obviously did not do that.

[Bill R]

What I mean is that if they decide to tear up the contract, transfer their transponder license to DTV, and just leave the empty transponders to DISH. (Of course, they would have to get another license for them though. ) I am just wondering if their contract with Dominion is in Peril.
The transponder licenses are MUCH to valuable to do that. Besides, DirecTV doesn't have the room for the Sky Angel package.

Sky Angel plans on having their own up-link center and (someday) their own satellite(s). They do use Echostar's technology and if they were to change that all 150,000 customers would possibly have to get new receivers.

As for the contract, I heard that it was a very long term contract and part of that contract is that DISH gets to use most of Dominion's transponder frequencies (all Sky Angel channels are crammed on two transponders) and DISH would have to find room for a lot of (local) channels.

[music_beans]

Another thing they can do is rent space off one of the many sattelites in space. (Like Primestar who use AMC3 for their service.)

[TNGTony]

Music beans,

Just so you understand, Sky Angel owns 8 transponders at 61.5. These licenses were issued to Dominion (Sky Angel's parent co.) by the FCC. Dish and Sky Angel have a long term (10 year or the life of E*3 whichever comes first) to lease back 6 of the 8 transponders back to Dish. In exchange, Dish provides the two physical transponders on E*3, uplink and billing facilities.

If Sky Angel and Dish were to desolve the contract tomorrow, Dish would actually LOSE 6 transponders at 61.5 giving them LESS room for stuff on that satellite. Of course Sky Angel would not have a satellite to use their 8 licenses on. But Dish would NOT just be able to start using the 8 transponders without the FCC revoking (or amending) the licenses issued to Dominion.

Now, having said all that, I doubt this is nothing more than a bump in the road. Dish and Sky Angel have had other little flaps like this in the past. This is just the first time I know that Sky actually won! :)

See ya
Tony

[music_beans]

I fully understand now. Thanks! :)

Sky Angel could at least just rent space off AMC3 or something, and DISH could gets the FCC licences revoked, and all will be ok. :D Other than that, I understand.

As of 7:24pm CDT, Daystar is STILL (and shouldn't be) on with blanket coverage on this ordeal. They keep saying that they could be off the air "within hours". Does anyone else know what FamilyNet is doing? (I don't have a Dish pointed to 148.)

[music_beans]

BTW, Isn't Dominion (or should I say Demonion) violating FCC must-carry rules by carrying Low-Power Daystar and TBN affiiates?

[Steve Mehs]

Did Dish actually previal here? I've been tuning into Daystar on and off the past few hours to hear the Celebration hosts demonize, as Tony put it, Dominion. EPG info is back to normal for both Daystar and Family Net. A few hours ago for programming info instead of program titles it just said Daystar or FamilyNet in 30 min blocks. And on Daystar the Celebration guy had a smile on his face talking about how the prayers they received came in big.

I flipped to Family Net a few times and they were going on as normal.

[HTguy]

I'm trying so hard to care, but it just doesn't seem to be working.I have to agree with Cyclone.

I happened to tune into Daystar earlier today when I saw the news just to see if they were still on 9508. There was some huckster selling "chastity" necklaces for fathers to give their daughters to encourage abstention.

Look, I know some people will be offended (and I don't mean to offend) when I point out that a lot (not all) of these TV "ministers" are just sleazy con men in the religion business. Like all great con men, a lot of them believe their own con.

They are in competition with one another for market share and will continue to back-bite & step on one another in order to get ahead. There's only so much demand for prayer cloths, "blessed" trinkets, and "donations" for tapes & pamphlets. There's only so big an audience for "miraculous" healing shows even when it's announced in advance that Jesus Christ, Himself, will attend (as I once heard Benny Hinn promise.)

So it shouldn't come as a big shock when they spat with one another.

Those who are on any kind of true spiritual search, regardless of the path they choose to take or which way they take it, have no need to see these liars & hypocrites on any TV channel.

I say, "A pox on them!" and "They can go to the devil!"

:soapbox:

[Steve Mehs]

Agreed HTGuy! I could careless too about the actual channels, I think everyone knows how I feel about PI channels in general, I just would like to E* win this battle.

[Darkman]

hehe - some come to mind of the top of the head:

Swagard, Baker...

[music_beans]

Lets call them 'Sky Demon' and leave it.
BTW, Did you read the letter on the Daystar website?

http://www.daystar.com

You can't miss it.

By Steve Mehs
Agreed HTGuy! I could careless too about the actual channels, I think everyone knows how I feel about PI channels in general, I just would like to E* win this battle.

Agree with you too! I never watch Daystar or FamilyNet (I probably will never get to watch FN sice I have no dish on the side sats) Just replace them with PBSKids and Classic Arts Showcase!

There is my 2 (maybe 3) cents.

[Cyclone]

Classic Arts Showcase rules. We have it on our local cable system.

[TNGTony]

Well, looking at the www.skyangel.com/echostarlawsuit page, they are now trying to explain their position.
---
First we want to apologize ahead of time for having to release this information to the public; it was not our intention to do so for the overall sake of the Body of Christ. It grieves our heart that there are individuals making false and misleading statements against Sky Angel, which has caused confusion among the viewing public. However, because of these false and misleading comments about Sky Angel as it relates to litigation it has had with EchoStar/DISH Network, Sky Angel has found no other choice but to publicly defend itself with the truth. Sky Angel is grateful for the support of many Christian leaders, Christian channel owners, our viewers on both Sky Angel and DISH Network, and the Chairman of the National Religious Broadcasters Association during this challenging time for Sky Angel.

Secondly, we want to make it perfectly clear that Sky Angel has no plans to remove Daystar from Sky Angel. Additionally, this issue has nothing to do with Daystar’s carriage on any other cable or satellite provider, only DISH Network.

There have been a lot of wrong, misleading and even libelous statements that have been said regarding Sky Angel and the matter concerning our long-standing agreement with EchoStar that both Daystar and FamilyNet were completely familiar with prior to these unfortunate events and that both parties agreed to abide by in word and contract some years ago. It is unfortunate that for weeks Marcus and Joni Lamb, owners of Daystar Television Network, have been on national television twisting the facts surrounding this matter. Sky Angel however has remained silent for the good of the overall body of Christ and instead had chosen, at the advice of major Christian leaders, to instead bring the misbehavior of these ministries before the group that overseas Christian media ethics violations, the National Religious Broadcasters Association. On the surface, what Daystar says publicly may sound reasonable—even convincing. But as the old adage goes, there are always two sides to every story. As Christians, it is our duty to dig deeper to get to the real truth of every matter. And we only ask that people who have taken the time to listen to what the Lambs have to say regarding this issue will oblige Sky Angel the same courtesy as we present the facts of this case in the subsequent text that follows; in doing so, we pray that the Lord will indeed reveal to you Sky Angel’s true heart and motive as they pertain to this issue as well as the real truth of this matter.
---
Read the rest on the web site.

Scott,

[music_beans]

Well, on the Daystar site, they say that they only carry Daystar to make money. Just go to Daystar.com. You can't miss it.

Now, I need to fiddle around with the latest, fresh-out-of-the-oven Mozilla build.

[TNGTony]

Here is something I recently posted to the Sky Angel forum:

Okay, so I guess I'm one of the few that think protecting your business is good business.

Sky Angel is a ministry and it in essence preaches to the chior. But it IS a business that needs revenue to keep its doors open. So, let's say Dish can keed Daystar and Family net. Next Month Dish adds INSP, FAITH TV. Later, when it picks up Springdale, Ar., it makes Safe TV available nationally. Since channel 40 Pittsburgh is already on Dish Network in Pittsburgh, it decides to make that channel (Cornerstone) available nationally.

Dish already Carries Tampa and Roanoke locals, so let's open up LBN and Superchannel TBN nationally.

So...who's still willing to pay $12 a month for Sky Angel after that? And if "no one" is willing to buy Sky Angel, how is it going to stay in business to keep bringing us the Word?

So Sky Angel shuts its doors due to lack of funds because E* is now airing the programming. After Sky Angel is gone, Charlei Ergen sells his company to XYZrUs satellite Company that decides to use the bandwidth for the much more proditable adult channels.

What then? We are now once again at the mercy of the "gatekeeper".

Who is going to build the satellite to put in orbit to broadcast the Word to Africa and South America? No one else any time soon, I'll tell you that!

Yes, my example is extreme, but like any parody, it is rooted in truth. it's not just about ONE channel. It's about protecting the business.

When I found out about this suit in May on an emotional level, I have to was uphauled! But after brief thought, I realized that this is the ONLY way that Sky Angel can ensure its survival! Think about it.

See ya
Tony

[Mike123abc]

The way I view it is if Skyangle and Dish had an agreement they both need to stick to it. Dish should really be good with Dominion because they lease 7 transponders from them.

[FTA Michael]

What, Sky Angel is supposed to be a supplemental service? I always thought it was for those folks who wanted television for their family but didn't want to worry about exposing their children to The Travel Channel's Vegas Week.

It's all about money. I think E* ought to settle with a payment to offset any lost SA subs. It might be cheaper than having to re-add all those religious locals, maybe?

[Wayne]

Thanks for all of the information in this thread.

After reading everyone's press releases I believe Sky Angel is right (FYI : I don't subscribe to Sky Angel). They had an agreement with Echostar and both parties should abide by it until it ends.

Maybe a better agreement next time would be to have Sky Angel programming on a main satellite (110 or 119) where more people would subscribe. Many people do not want a second dish.

Anyway I see the current situation as this:

Daystar made an offer to E* because they wanted more viewers so they could charge higher rates to the ministries that buy time on it. So they totally disregarded Sky Angel's agreement with E*.

Echostar didn't want to carry any more local stations than necessary so they took Daystar's offer to waive local retransmission in favor of one national feed.

I'm most confused and disappointed about FamilyNet's position it all this. I believe it is good that their president has left. Maybe now they can reconcile with Sky Angel and start a new relationship.

As a Christian, I would love to see more Christian stations (like music video and family channels) on Dish Network's basic package, however I believe an agreement is an agreement.

As a side note, I do have a big problem with certain "Christian" programs that are emotionally based and use scare tactics to get senior citizens to send their money to them. We need more in depth and real life teaching programs and a lot less of "wealth and health" charlatans.

To sum it up, I think Sky Angel did approach this biblically and had a legal right to go to court.

[TimL]

Looking as much as I could on both sides I would have to side with Sky Angel on this..What I wonder is, why would Charlie enter into agreements with Daystar that he had to know might concern Dominion/Sky Angel..(I know money has to do with it, but why would Charlie want the hasssle?)

[Scott Greczkowski]

I agree with DayStar on this one. :)

Although I have been thinking to myself, are Daystar and FamilyNet REALLY public interest channels?

Yes a channel like Classic Arts Showcase would be GREAT!

[gor88]

Seems like E*, Daystar, FamilyNet could come together and work out some form of compensation to SkyAngel for Dish to carry those two channels on the AT50 or AT100 packages. Charlie wouldn't have to worry about retransmission of locals, SkyAngel could get compensated and both Daystar and FamilyNet could dramatically expand their potential audience. Both networks are gaining in popularity, so it only makes sense to have them on E*. If they do this, FamilyNet needs to move to 110 or 119.

But, then again, that is too simple a solution. :lol:

I used to be on E*. My brother now has my E* equipment and I am on D*.

Frankly, I would like to see D* get FamilyNet. It probably won't happen until after 7-S is operational, though.

[RJS1111111]

Classic Arts Showcase rules. We have it on our local cable system.

Classic Arts Showcase is also shown nightly on Sky Angel channel 9711
(Safe TV from Springdale AR). I think it's still available FTA on C band
(analog!).

Dominion/Sky Angel is just trying to get DISH to honor its agreement.
Why? To protect their subscriber revenues. Why? So the funding is
there to change over to an international FTA service, which has always
been their stated goal.

Why haven't they already done this? The international production
facility, uplink facility, and satellites (all very expensive) still need to
be financed, built, and launched.

[Mark Holtz]

Wasn't the point of moving the Daystar/Familynet to PI is to reduce the number of affiliates carried as local stations?

[RJS1111111]

Wasn't the point of moving the Daystar/Familynet to PI is to reduce the number of affiliates carried as local stations?

That might have been the main incentive DISH had to ignore its agreement
with Sky Angel not to start carrying additional Christian-oriented networks.

[music_beans]

That is why they should be called 'Demonion' and 'Sky Demon!"

[HTguy]

Also, you may recall that SkyAngel lobbied against the merger stating that E* wasn't interested in religious or "family" programming. So then Charlie opts to add DayStar & Family Net to the PA tier.

I wonder if Mr. Ergan was yanking their chain a little.