Help ! Lightning may have got me?

[UpOnTheMountain]

We just had a bad storm , during it my 721 rebooted and now many of many channels have disappeared. (it was on power protection and a ups ... so it wasn't power related ... it must have been some kind of static charge coming back in the coax?)

It looked like 119 was completely gone for me, so I did a switch check, hoping that would get them back.
I have run switch check several times with each time giving slightly different results !!!

I have a 721 connected to a :
dish 500 for 110 and 119
it has a wide lnb with two outputs (a legacy twin?) that feed to two sw21s
the sw21s also connect to a separate dish 500 with a single lnb (a legacy dual?) with two outputs for 61.5

The results are something like this :

Sat 1:
switch SW21
Port 1 1 2 2
sat 110 110 61.5 61.5
trans odd eve odd eve

Sat 1:
switch SW42
Port 1A 2A 1B 2B
sat 119 119 110 110
trans odd eve odd eve


The next run might have the sw42 results under sat in 1 (reversed) or even 110 and 119 showing under sw21s with no 61.5 ...


Does this mean the switches that are inside of the "twin" are bad ?

Is there another type of reset that might fix this problem?

[Neil Derryberry]

Was your system grounded? Man, I hope so....

[music_beans]

I hope so too. (but if the switches were to do that, the shock probably damaged them.) We had about 10 days of severe weather here in South Dakota, but my area only got hit about 2 times, and nothing bad happened. Was there much damage in your area? Yahoo maps shows that Goode, VA is pretty small.

[moedog]

Dang, UpOnTheMountain, sorry to hear about your system problems. We have had some bodacious storms the last few days here in VA. Can't tell you how to make it all good but will say I don't think a UPS or surge protector will necessarily prevent lightning damage. Hopefully by now you have the kinks worked out and are back enjoying that DISH!

[BobaBird]

I don't have the answer either but you might try removing pieces to see if the symptoms continue. Connect direct to the Twin, connect only to the 61.5 dish, connect it to a neighbor's dish. You should be able to narrow it down to the Twin, SW21, or :eek: 721.

BTW, it sure is refreshing to see the dish parts identified correctly and not see an "e" in "lightning." :righton:

[UpOnTheMountain]

Status update ...

Still no joy this morning. :(

I went into diagnostics (never tried them before), to see if I could find out anything there.
Wow, not very useful, the diagnostics seam to only check your phone line connection, which is fine in this instance.

But ... the 721 did report that my smart card was invalid and requested that I remove and reinsert. I did this and that part of the problem went away after reboot.

Now when I do a switch check, it is reporting :

Sat 1:
switch SW21
Port 1 1 2 2
sat 110 110 119 119
trans odd eve odd eve

Sat 2:
switch SW21
Port 1 1 2 2
sat 110 110 119 119
trans odd eve odd eve

(edited to add ... still semi random results when ran more than once ... must be switch related somewhere ... time to trouble shoot :-( )

A couple of questions :

1. What transponder should I be on when I run the switch check (or does it matter) ?
2. If I need to replace the twin, should I go ahead and replace with pro?
3. If I get pro what will I need to best match my current setup?

I do have my old 500 setup that I could replace the current one with (it's a "channel master" with the "round" lnbs and large plastic dish setup that was installed with my Gilat setup)

But that would mean that I would be using two dual lnbs with two sw21s ... So ...

1. Can I cascade the sw21s to connect 61.5 ?

sort of like this :
110/119 twins (2) to two sw21s down to 2 sw21s with connections from a 61.5 twin

thanks in advance for any help.

By the way, my dishes are pole mounted right beside the house. They were installed by "Dish professionals" this last time (just a few weeks ago) . I have never had a problem after five years of service. I had always done the installs myself before this. The biggest difference is that now there are two, and they are about 75 feet apart (one on each side of the house) ... Could the ground differential contribute to a potential ??

[UpOnTheMountain]

Yep, Goode is pretty small. We are a community just outside of the Lynchburg City area. Pretty much a suburb with a country/farming/mountainish kind of twist.

We live in the hills, with our house on a crest that is part of the no business mountain range. (ours is but a hill crest setting above a couple of very small valleys(hollers), the uponthemountain is an inside joke for our family)

No severe damage in the area that I am aware of. Storms a very common around here this time of year. This year they appear to be a little more frequent.

Oh the joys ... not.

[scooper]

First set of 3 -
#1 - doesn't matter
#2 - If you replace your Legacy TWIN with a DishPro TWIN, you'll also need to replace your 2 SW21's with the DP34 switch. Also, the Dual LNB on your 61.5 dish will also have to be replaced with a DishPro Single. So, I'd think REALLY hard if your really want to convert to DIshPro.
#3 - See my answer to #2 above

2nd set
#1 - You cannot cascade 2 SW21's -

Grounding - ideally, both dishes are ground to each other, and on the house ground as well. At the least, they should all be bonded together with a wire of the proper size (a licensed electrician should be able to get you the right answer here).

[Jacob S]

If you have two dishes then try hooking each dish up to the receiver. If you get the same results from both then you know its in your receiver unless lightning hit both at the same time. It could also be in your wire.

If lightning hits it can ruin the wire as I have seened happen earlier this year even though the dish was grounded. Lightening had run into his tv and blew the inside out across the house as lightening struck across the room and it also ruined the receiver and it went to the ground rod and all the wire to the ground rod from inside the house was toast. You could see a burnt spot on a leaf where the wire was laying. From the ground rod and ground block to the dish the wire was fine. There were thousands of tiny ants crawling in and out his lnbfs and the sw-21 switch after that had happened.

[UpOnTheMountain]

Thanks for the help guys !

Update ...

61.5 is fine
replacing sw21s makes no change
when switch comes back with exact match on both tuners ... for example 110 and 61.5
the 110 will not tune, but 61.5 will
Both tuners will pull up 61.5 but will not pull up 110 or 119 no matter what the switch check results are

I believe this firmly points to the legacy twin being bad.

Now the next problem, finding someone to sell me one quick.

The main Local dealer is not at all happy to deal with someone who is not "an original customer", well how do I become a customer if you never help me? And said it will take several days to schedule assistance (but would be much quicker if i was his customer). He also said he would sell me the part, but as soon as I walk out the door, it would be non-returnable and un-warrantied!

Other dealers are too busy, do not Carry the parts, or deal with directv only.

Ratshack and Shears only have boxed new install kits

arrgghhh ...

[UpOnTheMountain]

Update ...

After feeling confident that 61.5 was good and that the trouble was a faulty legacy twin, I pulled out the old legacy duals so that I could get 110 and 119 back (boy having only two channels brought back some childhood memories)

anyways ... I pulled of the legacy twin ... and whoa ... it wasn't a legacy twin after all ... it was a quad !!!

So hmmm ... I moved the wires from 1a and 2b to 1b and 2a, reconnected the switches , went through two reboots and three switch checks ... and wallah ... I had 110 and 199 back !!! ... but no 61.5 :-(

The switch checks no longer seam to "see" the sw21s ?
It now reports :

Sat 1:
500 quad
Port 1 1 2 2
sat 119 119 110 110
trans odd eve odd eve

Sat 2:
500 quad
Port 1 1 2 2
sat 119 119 110 110
trans odd eve odd eve

Does that mean the "quad" cannot switch with the sw21??

tia
Keith

[scooper]

To me, it sounds like your SW21's got fried. Maybe your Quad as well.

As for a quick dealer - our friends at www.dishdepot.com might even be able to get you overnight/Saturday delivery . At least it would be worth asking about.

[UpOnTheMountain]

scooper,
I have just placed my order with http://www.dishdepot.com!

SKU: DPsglx3DP34
Item Name: LNBFs: DISHPro Twin, DP Single LNBFs with DISHPro 34 Switch
Cost: $199.99

This is an expensive fix for a five minute storm, but it is cheaper than I can get locally, and the dp technology looks like it will make it much easier for me to add a HD receiver, I've already got an extra line in place, but no switching capacity with current set-up.

I may try one more sw21 switch swap to see if it makes a difference, but I don't think it's going to. But here's hoping while waiting for my replacement parts ...

tia
Keith

[Jacob S]

Dish Network quoted $149 for a dishpro twin before alone plus shipping. The twins cost more at times than the lnbf's seperately but you do not have the sw-21 switches to mess with and less to go wrong with one.

[Fred S]

This post caught my eye because I believe I also have a problem caused by lightning. I believe it cooked by SW64.

I called DISH for help diagnosing it. This wasn't much help ("do a checkswitch!") but...the CSR suggested that I buy their extended warranty plan at $5/month. Then for a $30 service call, they will send somebody out, and this will cover replacement of any DISH-logo equipment I have. The downside: I'm committed to the extended warranty for 12 months. Total cost=$90, but I'm guaranteed they'll fix this problem.

If you could cancel your order with DISH DEPOT, this could work for you.

P.S., I thought it sounded crazy they'd DISH would provide this service for the problem that I already have, but the CSR confirmed they'd do this.

[Unthinkable]

UOTM, I'm not convinced your equipment was fried by the lightning storm as I have a similar setup to yours and recently ran into the exact same problem as what you noted above. I have two Dish 500's: one with a dual LNB for 110 and 119 and one with a single LNB pointing at 61.5 with two SW21's. The 721 receiver I won in the Survivor Amazon contest which worked ok for 3 weeks or so with this 3-satellite setup last week all of a sudden stopped detecting 119 on one tuner no matter how many switch checks I did after I reset the receiver to try and eliminate all the repeating pauses in playback/audio stuttering/black screens. Played around with switch checks for several hours to no avail and spoke with advanced tech support several times only to hear I need to spend 350 bucks or so to upgrade to new switches and lnb's for the receiver to function properly. It worked fine (save for the odd quirks like the black screens changing channels, the video freezing while I fast forward or rewind a recorded event or while watching live events, audio stuttering dropout problems etc.) for close to a month with the equipment I had so I can't really understand why last week everything went all to hell. I know it wasn't weather related here as we had no rain/heavy cloud cover at all. Tech support told me to unhook the 61.5 connections to get both turners to function properly as they did previously and I did that along with running another switch check, but now I no longer have 61.5 working and the reps didnt seem convinced I'd ever be able to get all 3 sats back even though I had it working once before. The current point dish screen appears to me to have its own set of issues with regards to detecting completely different and erroneous configurations with repeated switch checks never changing a single thing up cable, switch, or lnb wise. I had all kinds of troubles with 119 locking onto the wrong satellite (61.5) with the 3 sat hookup last week before I finally pulled the connections on 61.5 just to get the two tuner functionality back.

Not sure what to tell you there, but my feeling is its software related and not your switches being wiped out by lightning. I'm as frustrated as you are about this though. Nothing like seeing the dish matrices don't match your receiver will not work properly with this configuration error screen when you know damn well both lines are exactly the same and I even reactivated an older receiver with no problems at all with both coaxials. Last two days my receiver has been really loud in the morning making noises and vibrations I've never heard before. Recently I'm noticing a screen I never saw before when I do a power reset which says receiver in standby mode / now rebooting, but it just hangs there for the longest time ever before it turns itself off without rebooting. :confused:

Advanced tech support on the 721's has been absolutely horrible in my brief time calling in for assistance. I had one good knowledgable tech for the 9 or 10 that were just clueless.

One other oddity I've noticed with my 721 is that FF, Rewind, Frame By Frame / Slow Motion all work so much smoother on my older 501 and button presses on the remote sometimes randomly hesitate for a few moments before registering. Hope these are all known issues with the current software.

Jacob S. or Scott G: I'm noticing live events freezing for a few seconds every 15 to 20 minutes or so right now on all channels and it does it on playback of recorded events as well. Does this sound like a receiver that needs to be RMA'd? or no? Bad hard drive or is this a known issue affecting everyone with the current software?

[Jacob S]

If your live events are freezing up for a few seconds every 15 to 20 minutes and not pixellating bad continuously with a lost satellite signal message popping up then it does sound like the hard drive is working and so loaded with chores to do that it cannot handle everything at once so it does just like a computer does, slow up for a bit until some resources become free.

[UpOnTheMountain]

The Unthinkable
Your situation sounds much worse than mine. I'm sorry that you are having such a bad experience with your 721. What a bummer.

Yesterday was quite bad for me (I'm limping along ok right now), but for the most part the only time I have problems is when BOTH tuners are recording AND I'm watching a third stream.

Even though our symptoms *were* the same (my symptoms are gone except that I can not get 61.5 right now, and another switch check might fowl it up) , I'm positive our problem was caused by lightning. We even heard the "static" pop through the ground in all of the speakers in the room.

It does sound like your unit is having hardware problems, I would highly recommend the deal that "Fred S" called out. That way you get a Dish rep to confirm the issues plus get a little piece of mind with it. I think I'll be signing up for that one too, but I'll not be using it for this issue .... unless the Dish Pro change over doesn't improve things.

[Fred S]

FYI - my problem is resolved, and was indeed due to a lighting strike near my 61.5 dish. The tech who came out discovered that I actually had 2 problems: my SW64 was fried, and so was the LNB on the 61.5 dish. I believe I did come out ahead purchasing the 1-year service contract. I hardly ever go for these things, but DISH's deal is one everyone should keep in mind: you can buy it AFTER you have a problem. So if your DISH6000 or 721 breaks, order this maintenance deal - this beats buying the expensive equipment on your own dime.

[Jacob S]

It is an exceptional due particularly with those with expensive or multiple receivers especially pvr's with hard drives.

[UpOnTheMountain]

Fred S,

Glad to hear they resolved your problem. That sounds like very sound advice.. We will probably be getting the service for the piece of mind.

Update on my problem ...

All fixed! Mark at Dish Depot did indeed help by putting a rush on my shipment. We do not have Saturday Delivery, but it was here first thing yesterday (Monday).
The DishPro kit solved the problem quite nicely. And Wow ... the DP lnbs + dp34 was dramatically faster than the legacy stuff on switch checks. Plus I seam to have gotten a couple extra points on 61.5.

So it's all good now . :up:

... I am still a little concerned about ground differential though ...