HD DVR Differences

[Sir Lagzalot]

I just had a new install and received hr22-100-r are these the new receivers?

[sptrout]

Could be.....the latest model is the HR23, however I had a 22 installed about 6 weeks ago that was built in July so it had to be new. (No refrub tags eithers.)

[Stuart Sweet]

Actually the HR22 and HR23 are both the most current. There are minor differences between the two but there's no reason to think one is better or more advanced than the other.

[Sir Lagzalot]

Thanks Stuart :)

[BattleZone]

The HR22 is still in production and is actually about 3/4 of all HD-DVR production, with the HR23 only about 1/4th, so it's far more common to get an HR22 than an HR23. Part of that is that only one contractor is making HR23s (Pace), and part due to the limited supply of wideband tuners, which is the only real difference between the two models.

[TomCat]

Don't forget about that significant increase in audio and video quality touted on the HR23 ;)

(sorry, as usual, just trying to stir things up)

[Stuart Sweet]

Thank you for making my job so much more fun.

To reiterate for the benefit of those now stirred up, when we tested the HR23, we remarked on better audio and video quality, but we later realized that it was just the way the receivers were calibrated out of the box, and that proper adjustment of the TV and AVR could yield the same quality on HR21, HR22, or HR23.

I hope that clarifies my position for what is probably the 750th time.

[Rich]

I just had a new install and received hr22-100-r are these the new receivers?

Can't believe nobody answered your question completely. You got a purportedly "refurbished" HR. Somebody else had it and returned it, hence the "r" at the end of the model number.

Rich

[Sir Lagzalot]

Can't believe nobody answered your question completely. You got a purportedly "refurbished" HR. Somebody else had it and returned it, hence the "r" at the end of the model number.

Rich

I thought so, one of them is already bad and won't connect to my router so I suspect the internal network card is bad, because when I connect my computer it works fine. :mad:

[harsh]

To reiterate for the benefit of those now stirred up, when we tested the HR23, we remarked on better audio and video quality, but we later realized that it was just the way the receivers were calibrated out of the box, and that proper adjustment of the TV and AVR could yield the same quality on HR21, HR22, or HR23.Perhaps you could share how an out-of-the-box HR23 doesn't require adjusting the display or AVR and the other models do?

Is there some sort of setting that you can do to the other receivers to make them work better?

I know several who are interested in getting a better picture with their <HR23.

[RCinFLA]

Just got a HR23. It's audio 'brups' periodically just like the two HR22's and HR20 I have.

[Rich]

I thought so, one of them is already bad and won't connect to my router so I suspect the internal network card is bad, because when I connect my computer it works fine. :mad:

Are you using an Ethernet wire or a wireless adapter?

Rich

[Rich]

Perhaps you could share how an out-of-the-box HR23 doesn't require adjusting the display or AVR and the other models do?

Is there some sort of setting that you can do to the other receivers to make them work better?

I know several who are interested in getting a better picture with their <HR23.

My 23 had what I though was a great picture. I had it set up so that it and a 21-700 shared two TVs. I was watching a baseball game on the 23 one day and I was marveling at the PQ, then I looked at the remote and it dawned on me that I was watching on the 21-700. Switched back and forth and the PQ was equal playing on a 50" Panny plasma.

Rich

[TomCat]

Thank you for making my job so much more fun.

To reiterate for the benefit of those now stirred up, when we tested the HR23, we remarked on better audio and video quality, but we later realized that it was just the way the receivers were calibrated out of the box, and that proper adjustment of the TV and AVR could yield the same quality on HR21, HR22, or HR23.

I hope that clarifies my position for what is probably the 750th time.
Working directly with digital video files and transport streams daily for the last decade has revealed to me a few unimpeachable absolutes, and one of those is that their resultant quality levels are not "calibrated", and most assuredly not at the consumer DVR level. They exist as they are as a set of clearly-defined binary coefficients, and nothing can be done to change how they exist or how they eventually appear without either converting them to analog (which typically has no visible effect), re-encoding them, bit starving their delivery, knocking enough bits into corruption due to a lack of robustness of the delivery protocol through a hostile delivery environment, or performing a mathematical operation on them. That constitutes the entire universe of possibility.

Regardless of what happens to them later, they reach all DVRs in the exact same form and state. Binary coding itself implies by definition one of two absolute states for every bit, and so there is no grey area here, no wiggle room to argue about what is a fact, and no opportunity to "calibrate" or change what is into something different or better. So video PQ is at a level playing field at input.

And, there is no "calibration" at work later on in the DVR (which if it did exist would have to use one of the methods above, and is probably limited to performance of a mathematical operation). Other than the direct conversion to component for those outputs, the DVR doesn't do anything of the sort, and digital video has no capability to be altered for better or worse, by some sort of magical calibration that doesn't really exist. So our video PQ is also at a level playing field at output.

Assuming the same input (and obviously that means all DTV DVRs enjoy the same input), all consumer-level decoders generate the absolute exact same output with the exact same PQ in all DBS or OTA STBs and DVRs including Tivo and DISH as well, meaning if the source is the same, the resulting decoded video is also exactly the same, meaning they are all the same as far as PQ is concerned, and no one is even microscopically better than the other in that regard.

Even if a new DVR came along with 14-bit video decoding capability, the 8-bit source video means that the remaining 6 bits of each decoded digital word would be all zeroes, meaning the resulting output would still have the same exact quality as an 8-bit decoder, which is why one never will come along such as that.

"Out of the box" can then be no different than years after coming "out of the box", since there is no method available to change what comes out of the box. Your group's original report probably had nothing to do with DVR calibration (since that is a fantasy) and probably everything to do with unscientific expectations, which there still is no excuse for. If you are instead really talking about how the inputs to the test monitor were mis-calibrated, there still is no excuse for overlooking that, either.

[harsh]

I disagree with TomCat's insistence that the output of all devices must somehow be identical given the same input. The CE industry has provided us with a large number of different (both in technique and effectiveness) decoding and processing schemes. Names like "motion compensation" and "edge enhancement" are etched on everyone's brain. Both perform "magic" that may or may not improve the appearance of the resultant picture just as dithering increases the apparent number of colors used.

[Stuart Sweet]

Tomcat, thank you for your explanatory post. However, I can only say by empirical experience that while the outputs from the HR21 and HR23 were different on the same TV, and that initially the HR23 seemed better, I had no problem adjusting my television so that the HR21 looked great and the HR23 looked terrible.

I did have to change the normal things on my TV like brightness, contrast, and sharpness. Why do you think there is no processing taking place in the DVR that controls these factors?

[TimoHT]

Tomcat, thank you for your explanatory post. However, I can only say by empirical experience that while the outputs from the HR21 and HR23 were different on the same TV, and that initially the HR23 seemed better, I had no problem adjusting my television so that the HR21 looked great and the HR23 looked terrible.

I did have to change the normal things on my TV like brightness, contrast, and sharpness. Why do you think there is no processing taking place in the DVR that controls these factors?

I agree with TomCat. The HR boxes are video "Sources" and should provide identical, standards-based, digital output to downstream video processors in the display, stand alone video processor or, sometimes, in an AVR or PrePro. Processing such as motion compensation, edge enhancement or even contrast & brightness should not be performed in the "source," but rather in the downstream video processor. That is the intent of the high level video architecture. It is acceptable to have some video processing options in a source (e.g, an HR2x box, BluRay player, etc). But, any such options should be user accessible and adjustable and NOT buried "under the hood."

That leaves me unable to explain the differences you have seen between the HR2x boxes. I'm not questioning what you observed. But, the differences should not be there in a proper architecture.

[Stuart Sweet]

Perhaps in a perfect world there would be an option in my DVR to output "source direct video" for lack of a better term. I know my Blu-ray player has video "enhancement" features that I am able to turn off. I have no doubt that something like that is taking place in the DVRs; like you all I agree it would be nice if we could control them.

[Sir Lagzalot]

Are you using an Ethernet wire or a wireless adapter?

Rich

Wired and is it normal for them to install two refurbished receivers both look all scratched up and the one isn't fully operational, I just don't want someone else problem.

[carl6]

It is normal to get refurbished units. It is not acceptable to get one that is not fully operational or that has problems. Call and request a replacement for it.

[wingrider01]

It is normal to get refurbished units. It is not acceptable to get one that is not fully operational or that has problems. Call and request a replacement for it.

Was under the impression only one of the ethernet ports connect to a network, the other one is passthrough. If so it is working as intended

[The Merg]

Was under the impression only one of the ethernet ports connect to a network, the other one is passthrough. If so it is working as intended

That is correct. One is passthrough. The other is for connecting to the network.

- Merg

[Rich]

Wired and is it normal for them to install two refurbished receivers both look all scratched up and the one isn't fully operational, I just don't want someone else problem.

Huh. Shoulda worked.

Rich

[Rich]

is it normal for them to install two refurbished receivers both look all scratched up and the one isn't fully operational, I just don't want someone else problem.

Unfortunately, yes. That's what people mean when they say, "you get what you get". Kind of a crap shoot. Do you belong to the Protection Plan?

[Rich]

Was under the impression only one of the ethernet ports connect to a network, the other one is passthrough. If so it is working as intended

I'm assuming he has it connected correctly. All he has to do is try both to find out which is the proper one.

Rich

[Sir Lagzalot]

Unfortunately, yes. That's what people mean when they say, "you get what you get". Kind of a crap shoot. Do you belong to the Protection Plan?

Yes

I'm assuming he has it connected correctly. All he has to do is try both to find out which is the proper one.


Rich

Yes it's connected right and just doesn't work, they're sending someone out tomorrow to replace it probably with another refurbished unit.:mad:

[wingrider01]

I'm assuming he has it connected correctly. All he has to do is try both to find out which is the proper one.

Rich

I never assume anything, the statement was made to verify that I remembered was correct. the OP stated "one of the"

[Mike Bertelson]

Here's a little info about the differences.


Model Manufacturer HDD(GB) OTA Color BBC
HR20
-700 300 Yes S Yes
-100 300/320 Yes B/S Yes
HR21
-700 300/320 No B Yes
-200 300/320 No B Yes
-200Pro 500 No B Yes
-100 300/320 No B Yes
HR22
-100 500 No B Yes
HR23
-700 500 No B No

Notes:
1. BBC-Broad Band Converter are required in non-SWM configurations
with the exception of the HR23 which has Wide Band tuners.
2. Colors: B-Black, S-Silver
3. The HR21/HR22/HR23 require the AM21 to receive OTA.
4. The HR20-100 needs an external antenna to operate in RF mode.
All other HR2x receivers currently manufactured have internal
antennas.

[Rich]

Yes

Yes it's connected right and just doesn't work, they're sending someone out tomorrow to replace it probably with another refurbished unit.:mad:

If you have a problem with that, keep complaining and you will be sent to the Case Management Group, which will stick with you till your problems are solved. The trigger for the CMG is three calls to the PP with the same problem.

Rich

[Sir Lagzalot]

If you have a problem with that, keep complaining and you will be sent to the Case Management Group, which will stick with you till your problems are solved. The trigger for the CMG is three calls to the PP with the same problem.

Rich

Thanks Rich :) They're sending me two brand new receivers, won't know the model number until I receive them.

[Rich]

Thanks Rich :) They're sending me two brand new receivers, won't know the model number until I receive them.

The CMG sent me a brand new 23-700 and it lasted three weeks. Be prepared. You might want to call the Access Card Team when you get the "new" HRs and see if they have been activated before.

I've given up on getting replacements, I'll buy my own on eBay or Craigslist. And I do belong to the PP.

Rich

[Sir Lagzalot]

Man Rich you were right not only were they refurbished but they were beat the hell up and HR21-100-r. I think its time to file a complaint every-time I call one person tells me one thing and then another totally discredits the other csr. Now I can't cancel they want $485.00 every termination fee, haven't even had it a week and it hasn't work properly, I don't think I've been lied to so many times by any company let alone one.

[Rich]

Man Rich you were right not only were they refurbished but they were beat the hell up and HR21-100-r. I think its time to file a complaint every-time I call one person tells me one thing and then another totally discredits the other csr. Now I can't cancel they want $485.00 every termination fee, haven't even had it a week and it hasn't work properly, I don't think I've been lied to so many times by any company let alone one.

That was the Protection Plan that sent you the "new" HRs, or was it the CMG?

Rich

[Sir Lagzalot]

Not sure but I was talking to cancellations and didn't receive new just refurbished.

[Sir Lagzalot]

Well I finally got someone to listen and now have two brand new hr23-700 :D

[Rich]

Well I finally got someone to listen and now have two brand new hr23-700 :D

I wish you luck with them.

Rich

[Bruce M.]

Finally got tired of waiting for the "fall 2009 Directivo", and asked DTV to send me an HD-DVR unit, as it seems that the stability issues I carefully monitored through this board and elsewhere in the first couple of years may have resolved somewhat.

So I got my "new receiver" today. It's a HR-21 100. No "r". Build date of May, 2008. Doesn't look beat up.

Should I bother with this thing or not? I've been with DTV for 13 years, so I think I can muscle them for newer units if I try hard enough.

I can't tell whether, if all the firmware updates have been applied to this unit, there are significant functionality differences between it and the 22 or 23. Nor can I tell whether there are significant "bad unit" frequency rates differences between the various units, either on start-up or over time.

Any advice out there?

[Rich]

Finally got tired of waiting for the "fall 2009 Directivo", and asked DTV to send me an HD-DVR unit, as it seems that the stability issues I carefully monitored through this board and elsewhere in the first couple of years may have resolved somewhat.

They changed that date a long time ago. Latest I've seen is first quarter 2010. Doubt that too, haven't seen anything about it lately. I'd guess sometime during second quarter '10,

So I got my "new receiver" today. It's a HR-21 100. No "r". Build date of May, 2008. Doesn't look beat up.

Should I bother with this thing or not? I've been with DTV for 13 years, so I think I can muscle them for newer units if I try hard enough.

I can't tell whether, if all the firmware updates have been applied to this unit, there are significant functionality differences between it and the 22 or 23. Nor can I tell whether there are significant "bad unit" frequency rates differences between the various units, either on start-up or over time.

Any advice out there?

My apologies to everyone who dislikes my constant rants about the 100s, but this is too good to pass up.

I've had a lot of HRs in almost three years (11/19/2006) and I wouldn't have any HR that ended in 100 in my home. You posed your question well. I kinda get the impression you already know the answer.

Question is, what are you gonna get? I had the 22-100 and it worked really well, surprisingly well, for a couple weeks and in less than a month was doing things that caused me to let it sit unused for two more months. Got a new 23-700 and that had hardware problems, I think, and then developed the same issues as the 22 and in a month was unusable and I returned it.

Some of them have to work. I have to logically believe that. Crap shoot at best. Better than that 21-100 tho. Even tho my 23 didn't work, if I had a choice I'd get another 23.

Rich

[David MacLeod]

have 3 HR21-100 units with no issues.

[Bruce M.]

Super. The BS begins, and I haven't even wired the thing in yet.

Whe I tried to forstall this, I told the rep that I did not want any refurbed or old units. She gave me the song and dance about how she can't control what they send. I take it, though, that while maybe she can't, somebody can, as the OP here got his needs met. Is there some number other than the original general number to call?

Dave--just read your message. That's heartening. Maybe I'll spin the wheel and see what happens.

[Rich]

Super. The BS begins, and I haven't even wired the thing in yet.

Whe I tried to forstall this, I told the rep that I did not want any refurbed or old units. She gave me the song and dance about how she can't control what they send. I take it, though, that while maybe she can't, somebody can, as the OP here got his needs met. Is there some number other than the original general number to call?

Dave--just read your message. That's heartening. Maybe I'll spin the wheel and see what happens.

Do you belong to the Protection Plan?

Rich

[Rich]

have 3 HR21-100 units with no issues.

I did say that some of them have to work. I've never had one that did. Kinda makes you develop a bias. :)

Rich

[Bruce M.]

Yup.

[drpjr]

I did say that some of them have to work. I've never had one that did. Kinda makes you develop a bias. :)

Rich

I can relate to having a bias. I agree you couldn't give me a HR21 and I have never even owned one. But I am wondering from your post #38 above you say you had a HR22-100 and an HR23-700 both die from the same issues. And you have never had an HR21 that worked. How can that be blamed on one manufacturer over the other? You must have had many more 100s die than the other models? Just curious.

[Rich]

I can relate to having a bias. I agree you couldn't give me a HR21 and I have never even owned one. But I am wondering from your post #38 above you say you had a HR22-100 and an HR23-700 both die from the same issues. And you have never had an HR21 that worked. How can that be blamed on one manufacturer over the other? You must have had many more 100s die than the other models? Just curious.

I never said that I never had a 21 that worked. I have three 21-700s and a 21-200 that work fine. I've never had a 20-100 or a 21-100 that worked. My 22-100 worked very well for a couple of weeks then became unwatchable.

The 22 started out great. I was amazed, then the slipping to the end of the programs began and got to the point where I couldn't stand it anymore. The 23 had a problem right off the bat with the remote control sensor and, then developed the same issues as the 22. I kinda think the problems with the remote sensor sort of gave it a nervous breakdown. I bought a 20-700 on eBay and put it on the same feeds and it works perfectly.

How many 100s have I had? Good question, unfortunately I didn't keep a log of how many arrived and departed. More than 10, that I know for sure. But, except for the 22-100, all were replacements and, for the most part, were really beat up.

Don't be afraid of the 21-700s. They are dependable HRs and almost as fast as the 20-700. I think I only had to return one 21-700 that would not recognize the sat sigs no matter what I did. Got a 21-700 in return and still have it. Put it on the same feeds and have never seen a 771 on it.

Rich

[Bruce M.]

So...here's a real DTV newbie DVR question:

What's the actual difference between a 100 and a 700? Is it just that the 700s work better--faster, different firmware, etc., ? Or do we know that there are mechanical hardware differences, like different boards, for example?

Is the switch between 100 and 700 more significant than the switch between 21, 22, 23?

I read the manual last night--in theory, the UI seems ok to me: pretty intuitive. And the functions are reasonably comprehensive. But of course that doesn't mean squat if they don't work reliably....

[Stuart Sweet]

There are only minor differences between manufacturers. This is similar to having comparably configured PCs from Dell vs. HP for example. Most people find that the switch between different manufacturers is not significant at all. All HR20s behave pretty much the same, in fact all HD DVRs behave pretty much the same unless you factor in the need for antenna or B-Band Converters. HR22/HR23 receivers have larger hard drives.

You'll hear other people express their positive experiences with some models and negative experiences with other models, but looking at the entire subscriber base, there isn't sufficient evidence to say one manufacturer is better.

[Rich]

So...here's a real DTV newbie DVR question:

What's the actual difference between a 100 and a 700? Is it just that the 700s work better--faster, different firmware, etc., ? Or do we know that there are mechanical hardware differences, like different boards, for example?

Is the switch between 100 and 700 more significant than the switch between 21, 22, 23?

I read the manual last night--in theory, the UI seems ok to me: pretty intuitive. And the functions are reasonably comprehensive. But of course that doesn't mean squat if they don't work reliably....

I can't really answer that question since I've never had a 20-100 or 21-100 that worked. If you get one of those that works, I would think that the 20-100 would be the better of the two.

Personally, I much prefer the 700s, even factoring in the 23-700 that didn't work for me. Read thru the threads and you'll see that the 100s are more troublesome. And I've had the Case Management folks and the Protection Plan folks agree with me.

The 20-700s are in hot demand on eBay and you very rarely see a 20-100 for sale.

Hey, maybe you'll get lucky and get one that works well. Just because I've never had one that worked doesn't mean that all of them are bad.

Rich

[CATCRAW]

I just had my 2 year old HR21-700 go bad and DTV sent out a brand new HR22-100 as replacement. I have the Protection Plan. Once connected I have to say right out of the box there was a noticeable improvement in picture quality.

[Bruce M.]

Ok. I've heard enough. I got on the horn and sweet talked my way into a replacement, which is on its way. I asked for a 700 series, 22 or 23. She said that she'd note my request, but in any event I wouldn't get another 21-100.

Interestingly, she did confirm that the 100 series gets quite a few more complaints, in her experience, than the 700. Also, I supposedly got the 21-100 because it was the "closest thing in step-up" from my old non-HD DirecTivo. That contradicts what I had been told earlier, namely, that you get what you get, total crapshoot. Whatever.

It took 30+ minutes of talking this through, having her fill out what she said were 5 different forms to get this cleared. DTV doesn't make it easy. At first, she came back on line after talking with a supervisor to tell me I had to disconnect my DirecTivo, plug in this 21-100, activate it, then call back and ask to switch it out. That took 15 minutes alone to avoid having to do...

So, we'll see what I get. Hope I get what the OP got! I'd like a larger hard drive, at a minimum.

[Sir Lagzalot]

Hope I get what the OP got! I'd like a larger hard drive, at a minimum.

Good luck, I was promised brand new receivers twice and both times they were refurbished -100 units. Every time I called back the first csr I talk to was always rude and told me they don't see any notes on my account and told me you get what ever is in the warehouse and they can't control it, so I'd call back and then the next csr would say they were sorry and would ship me brand new ones at no cost and sorry for the inconvenience, but received refurbished again. I finally got someone high up and they called me everyday until I received the new receivers and even activated them for me after I installed them, they even stayed on the phone until I tested both of them and ensured they were both fully functional. All I can say is it shouldn't be this hard, but persistence pays off at least it did for me, and not everyone there is deceptive and rude.

[Bruce M.]

So do you fire them up yet? Do they work?

[Formula-350]

I sadly don't have the time to read the other 2 pages, but in regards to TomCat's post on page 1, this is all I can say about it.

If the input is the exact same, and that means the output will be the exact same, then why on earth does the output differ between video cards? SOMETHING is happening. And I'm not talking about video games, even though that should technically still fall with in your explination since they are providing digital content to the cards to display. I mean video, either right from a DVD/B-r Disc or from a file like DiVX. Now the difference between the big 2 (ATi and nVidia) is quite slim now, but a few years ago there was quite a big difference. The Radeon 9700 era is about when I'm referring too, but if we again talk about games and not video, then back further while 3Dfx was still around you saw much better image quality from the 3Dfx cards even with the 16bit vs 32 of ATi and nV.

There can be many ways to enhance an image in software too. Just look at Media Player Classic (not Microsoft's) or VLC Player, or even ffDShow, with the shaders. I really like the Sharpen Complex 2 shader while watching DVDs in Media Player Classic. While yes they rely on the video cards capability to render the image to apply the shaders, and the cards rendering algorithms could change the output. You could run D3D in software and then run those shaders through the emulator, but that'd just take more computing power and something like a set-top box wouldn't have enough.

Just my 2c!

[carl6]

As to HR20/21/22/ -100/-200/-300/-500/-700...

I Have an HR20-700, an HR21-200, two HR22-100's and an R22-200 (HD enabled). I also have an R15-500 and an R16-300. So I've got experience with most of the models and all of the manufacturers.

I have not seen a significant difference in performance, capability, quality or functionality between the various models or manufacturers (other than the obvious SD versus HD with regard to the R15 and R16). They all work okay for me. Just today I shuffled them all around to different rooms/TV locations (for reasons not worth detailing here), and they all work just as well with the different TV's they are now on as they did with in the previous locations.

So as to which is worth getting or avoiding, from my personal experience there isn't enough difference to worry about, other than the OTA tuner in the HR20 and the larger hard drive in the HR22/23.

[Bruce M.]

So...I just received my Fed Ex shipment notificaton for my replacement HD DVR. It says:

NEW_TM_1 G®oup - Model: R15-500C-R

I don't know this model at all, but a google search seems to indicate that this is just a basic, non-HD DVR?

Please tell me they did NOT ship me a non-HD DVR, after all this time on the phone with these people?!?!

[Formula-350]

So...I just received my Fed Ex shipment notificaton for my replacement HD DVR. It says:

NEW_TM_1 G®oup - Model: R15-500C-R

I don't know this model at all, but a google search seems to indicate that this is just a basic, non-HD DVR?

Please tell me they did NOT ship me a non-HD DVR, after all this time on the phone with these people?!?!

You got a non HD DVR, sorry :( HR basically means HD Receiver. Sorry man.

[Bruce M.]

Unbelievable. Screw it. I'm going to Costco and getting a HR 22. $170 to avoid this kind of aggravation is cheap.

[CCarncross]

Unbelievable. Screw it. I'm going to Costco and getting a HR 22. $170 to avoid this kind of aggravation is cheap.

Didnt you originally get sent an HR21 but listened to some here and sent it back without even seeing if there was anything wrong with it, thinking you should have gotten something more? Seems like you kinda helped create this situation a little.

[Rich]

Didnt you originally get sent an HR21 but listened to some here and sent it back without even seeing if there was anything wrong with it, thinking you should have gotten something more? Seems like you kinda helped create this situation a little.

Still, to get an R-15 to replace any HR borders on the ridiculous.

Rich

[Rich]

Unbelievable. Screw it. I'm going to Costco and getting a HR 22. $170 to avoid this kind of aggravation is cheap.

Call D* and ask for the Retention Dept. They should be more than willing to straighten out your problem and throw some "goodies" at you for putting you thru all this.

Rich

[CCarncross]

Still, to get an R-15 to replace any HR borders on the ridiculous.

Rich

I agree, although this was probably an honest mistake, but he HAD one in his possession.

[Rich]

I agree, although this was probably an honest mistake, but he HAD one in his possession.

And I did tell him to try it.

Rich

[Bruce M.]

Nope. Not gonna try it. They told me they were sending me one with the largest hard drive available. They didn't. So I'm not trying it. The fact that it also happens to be a model with a star-crossed history of stability just made that decision even easier.

Apparently, they should not have told me anything about the hard drive I was going to get, but that is not my problem.

Now, I'll just cross fingers on the HR 22 and take it from there.

[The Merg]

While getting a SD-DVR as a replacement for a HD-DVR is obviously an issue, the idea of getting upset about which HR2x was received is a little overboard. It really shoudn't matter at this point if you receive a new or refurbished receiver. The reason being that if the receiver fails, DirecTV will just replace it. There are those with refurbished receivers that have lasted longer than those with new receivers. And being refurbished doesn't mean that the receiver had failed at all. It could also mean it was used at one point in time.

While there is a difference in harddrive size between the HR22/23 and the HR20/21, if space is a main consideration, you might just want to look at getting an eSATA drive which makes the DVR HDD size a moot point.

Did you pay for the new HD-DVR initially? If not, or you got it at a reduced cost, call up Retention as suggested, and get the issue resolved. You will probably get some additional credits or goodies for them sending you the wrong DVR (SD vs. HD).

- Merg

[roadrunner1782]

I too, would call retention. They will definitely help rectify the situation. On a side, not bashing you for sending back the HR21 but it could have had the HDD replaced during the refurb process and gotten the biggest one available. Not saying it actually did and you definitely shouldn't assume that it did, but it was a possibility.

[Bruce M.]

Well, according to the latest dude I talked to at retention, they do not upgrade to the larger hard drives during the "refurb" process.

Anyhoo, thought some might be interested in what retention did. After hearing my sob story, and arranging for the delivery of a "recovery kit" so I could ship the R-15 back, the guy offered to credit my account $75 so I could go buy an esata external drive. He later upped that to $100. So I took it, and ordered a 1.5 terabyte drive on line. He said if the HR21-100 turns out to be a bad unit, I can use the external drive with the replacement, which he swore would always be an HD DVR from now on (as opposed to an R15 or 16).

So, now the stage is set, and we'll see what happens with this HR21.

[Rich]

Well, according to the latest dude I talked to at retention, they do not upgrade to the larger hard drives during the "refurb" process.

Anyhoo, thought some might be interested in what retention did. After hearing my sob story, and arranging for the delivery of a "recovery kit" so I could ship the R-15 back, the guy offered to credit my account $75 so I could go buy an esata external drive. He later upped that to $100. So I took it, and ordered a 1.5 terabyte drive on line. He said if the HR21-100 turns out to be a bad unit, I can use the external drive with the replacement, which he swore would always be an HD DVR from now on (as opposed to an R15 or 16).

So, now the stage is set, and we'll see what happens with this HR21.

Glad to see you stayed the course. Good for you. I wish you the best of luck.

Rich

[The Merg]

Well, according to the latest dude I talked to at retention, they do not upgrade to the larger hard drives during the "refurb" process.

Anyhoo, thought some might be interested in what retention did. After hearing my sob story, and arranging for the delivery of a "recovery kit" so I could ship the R-15 back, the guy offered to credit my account $75 so I could go buy an esata external drive. He later upped that to $100. So I took it, and ordered a 1.5 terabyte drive on line. He said if the HR21-100 turns out to be a bad unit, I can use the external drive with the replacement, which he swore would always be an HD DVR from now on (as opposed to an R15 or 16).

So, now the stage is set, and we'll see what happens with this HR21.

While it is true you can use the external drive with any receiver you have, remember that once you use it on one receiver the recordings made there cannot be viewed when the drive is attached to another receiver.

- Merg

[Bruce M.]

Roger that.