I Quit DirecTV - And I'm Pissed, help needed

[jodybo]

I joined this forum because I am hoping for the names and physical addresses of execs at DTV for me to send my formal registered complaint. Prior to tuesday of this week I was a HUGE DTV fan, I loved them. That has all changed, and I am no longer a DTV customer. This is not a big deal money wise, but they drove me through the roof and now I am madder than hell. Here's my story:


I pretty much have/had the DTV Cadillac package. I have 5 receivers including 3 HD receivers and 2 HD DVRs. I have the Sunday Ticket, all the movie channels, and the NBA package. My wife and I recently moved into a new house, and with the addition of 2 new receivers I decided my bill was going to be out of hand and I wanted to find a way to make a cut. It was at that point, roughly 6 weeks ago, that I decided I didn't need the NBA package. I asked my wife to call DirecTV and cancel the NBA package. That night she informed me that she spoke with DirecTV and that the NBA package had been canceled.

Now, fast forward to this past Saturday. My DTV bill comes in the mail and I'm perusing through it (it was roughly $300), it was especially high at $300 because of the Sunday Ticket AND the first installment of the NBA package which is 4 or 5 charges of $49.99. I thought, well that's odd and I again confirmed with my wife that she had canceled the NBA to which she said "absolutely yes, it should be canceled".

Monday I was in Miami for work but Tuesday (the day of the NBA's opening night) I was back in the office and I called DTV to cancel the NBA. As some of you may or may not know, DirecTV has a very specific gameplan in place to make life very difficult for anyone attempting to cancel any programming. You call, give your account number, confirm for security reasons and then are transfered because the person you talked to can't cancel. As you are transfered you are placed on hold for roughly 5 mnutes, then someone picks up and you have to start from the top with your account number, mother's maiden name for security, etc. That person then has no ability to do anything and will come up with a reason why they can't help you, and transfer you to yet another person. Same story, you are on hold for 5 minutes, then you have to start from the top with the next person.

So, now that you understand the process you can place yourself in my shoes as the conumser calling to cancel one part of an account that DTV gets to bill a couple of hundred to every month. The third person that I get on the line is allegedly in the "cancellations" department and after going through the situation with her, here is what she says:

Remember, by this time I am pretty agitated because I have been on the phone with these people for 20+ minutes including hold time:

Her: "I'm sorry sir, but we cannot cancel sports programming once the season has started"

Me: "A: my wife called and canceled the programming a month ago and for some reason it wasn't cancelled. B: THE SEASON HAS NOT STARTED"

Her: "I see it noted here that she called and requested the cancelation... she said she was going to call back and hung up"

Me: "What? What does that even mean? It sounds to me like she called and canceled the programming and you guys failed to do your part, how is that my problem"

Her: "I'm sorry sir, I cannot cancel midseason"

You get the gist. I am infuriated by this exchange and I tell her in very simple terms to cancle the NBA package, issue a credit, or terminate my programming. She asks to transfer me to her manager to which I say "no more transfers", she says "please there is nothing I can do he might be able to help". I say fine and am put on hold.

Same story, 5 minutes later some guy answers and I start from the top.

He give sme the same song and dance about canceling mid season. This time I am not in the mood to debate the subject and I say very sternly:

"Look, it's very simple, cancel the NBA package or cancel my programming and you will not see another penny from me."

He then reads off the terms of programming cancellation which includes all kinds of crap that I know is going to mean future invoicing and billing. I have since taken the appropriate steps to insure that they have no ability to get money from me without my direct approval, but I know if not correctly managed by me this is going to lead to collections calls and a potential credit ding. I believe they breached our contract by failing to cancel the NBA package and essentially defrauded me by billing me and refusing to cancel and issue a credit despite the fact that the season had not started.

Comments, thoughts?

[Stuart Sweet]

I would send an e-mail to Ellen Filipiak: ellen.filipiak@directv.com

[Alebob911]

Not much you can do since you cancelled your service. Theres not much anyone here can do for you. When you let your emotions get the best of you it is documented by the CSR's which makes it that much more difficult to get something done. Someone here will give you an email address to the VP of customer relations and I highly suggest you be VERY polite and explain in detail and maybe things can get worked out. I wish I had that email for you. Good Luck.I joined this forum because I am hoping for the names and physical addresses of execs at DTV for me to send my formal registered complaint. Prior to tuesday of this week I was a HUGE DTV fan, I loved them. That has all changed, and I am no longer a DTV customer. This is not a big deal money wise, but they drove me through the roof and now I am madder than hell. Here's my story:


I pretty much have/had the DTV Cadillac package. I have 5 receivers including 3 HD receivers and 2 HD DVRs. I have the Sunday Ticket, all the movie channels, and the NBA package. My wife and I recently moved into a new house, and with the addition of 2 new receivers I decided my bill was going to be out of hand and I wanted to find a way to make a cut. It was at that point, roughly 6 weeks ago, that I decided I didn't need the NBA package. I asked my wife to call DirecTV and cancel the NBA package. That night she informed me that she spoke with DirecTV and that the NBA package had been canceled.

Now, fast forward to this past Saturday. My DTV bill comes in the mail and I'm perusing through it (it was roughly $300), it was especially high at $300 because of the Sunday Ticket AND the first installment of the NBA package which is 4 or 5 charges of $49.99. I thought, well that's odd and I again confirmed with my wife that she had canceled the NBA to which she said "absolutely yes, it should be canceled".

Monday I was in Miami for work but Tuesday (the day of the NBA's opening night) I was back in the office and I called DTV to cancel the NBA. As some of you may or may not know, DirecTV has a very specific gameplan in place to make life very difficult for anyone attempting to cancel any programming. You call, give your account number, confirm for security reasons and then are transfered because the person you talked to can't cancel. As you are transfered you are placed on hold for roughly 5 mnutes, then someone picks up and you have to start from the top with your account number, mother's maiden name for security, etc. That person then has no ability to do anything and will come up with a reason why they can't help you, and transfer you to yet another person. Same story, you are on hold for 5 minutes, then you have to start from the top with the next person.

So, now that you understand the process you can place yourself in my shoes as the conumser calling to cancel one part of an account that DTV gets to bill a couple of hundred to every month. The third person that I get on the line is allegedly in the "cancellations" department and after going through the situation with her, here is what she says:

Remember, by this time I am pretty agitated because I have been on the phone with these people for 20+ minutes including hold time:

Her: "I'm sorry sir, but we cannot cancel sports programming once the season has started"

Me: "A: my wife called and canceled the programming a month ago and for some reason it wasn't cancelled. B: THE SEASON HAS NOT STARTED"

Her: "I see it noted here that she called and requested the cancelation... she said she was going to call back and hung up"

Me: "What? What does that even mean? It sounds to me like she called and canceled the programming and you guys failed to do your part, how is that my problem"

Her: "I'm sorry sir, I cannot cancel midseason"

You get the gist. I am infuriated by this exchange and I tell her in very simple terms to cancle the NBA package, issue a credit, or terminate my programming. She asks to transfer me to her manager to which I say "no more transfers", she says "please there is nothing I can do he might be able to help". I say fine and am put on hold.

Same story, 5 minutes later some guy answers and I start from the top.

He give sme the same song and dance about canceling mid season. This time I am not in the mood to debate the subject and I say very sternly:

"Look, it's very simple, cancel the NBA package or cancel my programming and you will not see another penny from me."

He then reads off the terms of programming cancellation which includes all kinds of crap that I know is going to mean future invoicing and billing. I have since taken the appropriate steps to insure that they have no ability to get money from me without my direct approval, but I know if not correctly managed by me this is going to lead to collections calls and a potential credit ding. I believe they breached our contract by failing to cancel the NBA package and essentially defrauded me by billing me and refusing to cancel and issue a credit despite the fact that the season had not started.

Comments, thoughts?

[jodybo]

After what I experienced, I have no interest in continuing business with them. I am perfectly happy taking a credit ding rather than paying them after their garbage. My credit rating is 790, I'll survive.

[veryoldschool]

After what I experienced, I have no interest in continuing business with them. I am perfectly happy taking a credit ding rather than paying them after their garbage. My credit rating is 790, I'll survive.
If this is the case, why did you even bother to post here? :confused:

[spartanstew]

He wanted the contact information and it's now been given. I believe this thread has run it's course and can now be closed.

[wismile]

After what I experienced, I have no interest in continuing business with them. I am perfectly happy taking a credit ding rather than paying them after their garbage. My credit rating is 790, I'll survive.

I fully understand your position...I've had a few such run-in with DirecTV myself...but may I suggest that one issue (no matter how extreme) after years of quality service can be fixed.

Especially since the programing you've subscribed to can't be duplicated anywhere else at the quality you're presently receiving.

I would talk to them again and see if instead of canceling the NBA package...can they compensate you for the cost of keeping it. You don't break their stupid rules and end up with the NBA package for free!

[spartanstew]

I fully understand your position...I've had a few such run-in with DirecTV myself...but may I suggest that one issue (no matter how extreme) after years of quality service can be fixed.

Especially since the programing you've subscribed to can't be duplicated anywhere else at the quality you're presently receiving.

I would talk to them again and see if instead of canceling the NBA package...can they compensate you for the cost of keeping it. You don't break their stupid rules and end up with the NBA package for free!

Too late, he's already canceled service. The ship has sailed. He has the info he came for. This thread can die now.

[jodybo]

I fully understand your position...I've had a few such run-in with DirecTV myself...but may I suggest that one issue (no matter how extreme) after years of quality service can be fixed.

Especially since the programing you've subscribed to can't be duplicated anywhere else at the quality you're presently receiving.

I would talk to them again and see if instead of canceling the NBA package...can they compensate you for the cost of keeping it. You don't break their stupid rules and end up with the NBA package for free!

I appreciate your comments, thanks.

[jodybo]

Too late, he's already canceled service. The ship has sailed. He has the info he came for. This thread can die now.

Actually that is not entirely true. I'm hoping there is someone who has the mailing address for the board members and other execs. I would like for all of them to have the opportunity to see what the firm they represent is capable of doing to its customers.

[sigma1914]

Actually that is not entirely true. I'm hoping there is someone who has the mailing address for the board members and other execs. I would like for all of them to have the opportunity to see what the firm they represent is capable of doing to its customers.

I'm sure they won't care about your rant. If you want help, do as Stuart suggested & send an e-mail to Ellen Filipiak: ellen.filipiak@directv.com

[Mertzen]

Actually that is not entirely true. I'm hoping there is someone who has the mailing address for the board members and other execs.

Yellowpages.com :confused:

[jodybo]

I'm sure they won't care about your rant. If you want help, do as Stuart suggested & send an e-mail to Ellen Filipiak: ellen.filipiak@directv.com

I'm not quite sure how it is a rant. If you read my story there is no rant, just a factual conversation of what happened.

And as to whether or not they will care, perhaps some won't, and perhaps some will. This is the type of thing that might interest good management. I can tell you, I'm not going to serve on a board and then ignore the potential problems with the company. I doubt that's what the shareholders want out of their board members.

Thanks for the advice regarding Ellen, I have emailed her.

[Gloria_Chavez]

JodyBo, you'd be amazed at what a well-written letter to the CFO or COO of a company will do. But, write a letter, don't send an email. Go to the latest 10-K or annual report. You'll find the mailing address there. And trust me, they do care.

[veryoldschool]

And as to whether or not they will care, perhaps some won't, and perhaps some will. This is the type of thing that might interest good management. I can tell you, I'm not going to serve on a board and then ignore the potential problems with the company. I doubt that's what the shareholders want out of their board members.
Sorry but with over 17 million subs, you're not going to make even a blip.

The email is to the VP of customer service

[Gloria_Chavez]

Jodybo, link to officers right here..http://investor.directv.com/officers.cfm....And mailing address will be same a IR....http://investor.directv.com/contactus.cfm Good Luck.

[say-what]

JodyBo, you'd be amazed at what a well-written letter to the CFO or COO of a company will do. But, write a letter, don't send an email. Go to the latest 10-K or annual report. You'll find the mailing address there. And trust me, they do care.Knock yourself out. DirecTV Investor Relations: http://investor.directv.com/officers.cfm

They recommend the following:

Executive Customer Care Contact
If you've contacted Customer Care and require additional clarification or support, contact Ellen Filipiak, Sr. VP of Customer Care.

[ehilbert1]

I'm not quite sure how it is a rant. If you read my story there is no rant, just a factual conversation of what happened.

And as to whether or not they will care, perhaps some won't, and perhaps some will. This is the type of thing that might interest good management. I can tell you, I'm not going to serve on a board and then ignore the potential problems with the company. I doubt that's what the shareholders want out of their board members.

I appreciate you coming on here and letting us know what happened to you. It just goes to show that you pretty much have to keep checking to see if something is canceled.

I also would like apologize for the way some people have treated you here. Some people here can't stand anyone saying anything bad about Directv. Personally I've not had that many problems and enjoy the serivce.

It's no wonder why a lot of people on here won't even post. Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves and grow up. Everyone has a right to vent and no this thread was not dead. It reminded me that when I cancel I need to keep checking to see if it really happened. It also reminded me that this board has a few bad apples too. The guy was a newbie and you still couldn't cut him a break. Grow up!

[usnret]

I can't quite understand why his initial post is considered a "rant".

[Lee L]

Yeah, no reason to jump on the OP, unless having only good things about DirecTV being out there is your agenda.

Personally, I wish someone would record one of these calls and put it on the internet.

I really find it hilarious that they had a note in the account that you said you wanted to cancel and then hung up, yet were unlwilling to cancel it for you when you called back later. Surely someone could handle that as it is not like you called out of the blue to do it, there was an actual record.

[sigma1914]

I appreciate you coming on here and letting us know what happened to you. It just goes to show that you pretty much have to keep checking to see if something is canceled.

I also would like apologize for the way some people have treated you here. Some people here can't stand anyone saying anything bad about Directv. Personally I've not had that many problems and enjoy the serivce.

It's no wonder why a lot of people on here won't even post. Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves and grow up. Everyone has a right to vent and no this thread was not dead. It reminded me that when I cancel I need to keep checking to see if it really happened. It also reminded me that this board has a few bad apples too. The guy was a newbie and you still couldn't cut him a break. Grow up!

I can't quite understand why his initial post is considered a "rant".

When your first post after joining the forum has the 1st paragraph say "now I am madder than hell. Here's my story:" it's pretty much a rant. :rolleyes:

He could have simply asked, "Can I get the names and physical addresses of execs at DTV for me to send my formal registered complaint?"

[ehilbert1]

When your first post after joining the forum has the 1st paragraph say "now I am madder than hell. Here's my story:" it's pretty much a rant. :rolleyes:

He could have simply asked, "Can I get the names and physical addresses of execs at DTV for me to send my formal registered complaint?"

No you consider it a rant and if I was in his position I would be mad as hell too so please take your :rolleyes: somewhere else. I don't even know why I try. It's people like you that keep me from posting more or asking questions. Grow up man. If you don't like a thread please ignore it.

[Greg Alsobrook]

Alright guys. Let's play nice please. No need to debate whether or not it was a rant.

:backtotop

[spartanstew]

and no this thread was not dead.


What else is there to say?

He over-reacted, and bit off his nose to spite his face. Now, he wants contact info for someone at D* - That was the point of the thread. He received that info. Case closed.

Now, we can go on for 5 more days with some of us saying he over-reacted and others saying D* sucks and the rest of us are fanboys, etc., etc.

But in the end, what will have changed? He'll still be a former D* subscriber, he'll still have the Email address he came here hoping to find and we'll all still have our same opinions.

There's not one thing that can be added to this thread. To me, that's a dead thread.

[ehilbert1]

What else is there to say?

He over-reacted, and bit off his nose to spite his face. Now, he wants contact info for someone at D* - That was the point of the thread. He received that info. Case closed.

Now, we can go on for 5 more days with some of us saying he over-reacted and others saying D* sucks and the rest of us are fanboys, etc., etc.

But in the end, what will have changed? He'll still be a former D* subscriber, he'll still have the Email address he came here hoping to find and we'll all still have our same opinions.

There's not one thing that can be added to this thread. To me, that's a dead thread.

Let it go man. Again if you don't like a thread then ignore it. I say it wasn't dead because I wanted to add my 2 cents and thank the guy for bringing this to my attention.

[soloredd]

I think you are justified in being upset, however, if your wife did call a month ago and cancel the sub, in my mind there should have been some follow-up. DirecTV lays out your entire programming package on their website, it takes all of 5 minutes to look at what you are being charged for. Myself, if I cancel ANYTHING, I always follow-up to make sure it is so. I cancelled Season Ticket last year and I still check my bills to see if the charge will appear. It sucks but these days we have to continuously monitor everything - bank accounts, satellite, netflix, internet, you name it. I also don't understand why people wait until the last minute to do something like this - the season was over in June.

I hope you get whatever it is you are seeking by continuing to communicate with DirecTV. Sounds like this could have been handled better by both parties.

[jodybo]

Once again I appreciate the comments. I'm going to send a registered letter with return receipt requested to each member of the board of directors, and each member of the executive staff.

I'll let you guys know how it goes. As for myself, I just want to avoid 200 calls from a collections agent because I didn't pay certain portions of my DTV bill. I honestly feel I have been defrauded and that DTV broke their contract with me by not canceling the NBA package.

[veryoldschool]

Once again I appreciate the comments. I'm going to send a registered letter with return receipt requested to each member of the board of directors, and each member of the executive staff.

I'll let you guys know how it goes. As for myself, I just want to avoid 200 calls from a collections agent because I didn't pay certain portions of my DTV bill. I honestly feel I have been defrauded and that DTV broke their contract with me by not canceling the NBA package.
And this is EXACTLY why and who the email address is for.

[badger04]

This happened to me with ESPN College football Pay per view a couple of years ago. I thought I had canceled it but it did not get into their computer system.I was disappointed but I did not canceled service. Would I go Charter or Dish. No way. Let it go !!!

[sigma1914]

I wonder when they consider the season starts? At tip-off that night? 12:00am that day?

[vollmey]

To the OP, the same deal happened to me, except my bill comes to me through email, so I caught it in time by Tuesday. Cancelled NBA ticket 2 months ago and I checked after I cancelled that it was off the account and when I paid my bill last month. No NBA ticket was on the account, this months bill comes due, and guess what there it is. And like the the OP I was pissed. The CSR rep I talked even had notes about when I called last and cancelled it.

If was not I so busy and had time to switch, I would. But I appreciate what my $268 / month gets me as far as sports packages and programming in general ( Minus the entire Versus deal and MSG HD ) so I left it alone.

But, it's a crappy business practice and they tried to sneak it in. The OP did not catch it in time, I did.

As far the bashing the OP, get a freaking life. There was no Rant, he needed advice and help. Some of you need to stop hiding behind your keyboards and take some of that expertise that you think you have and put it to good use. There are far less helpers here than there used to be.

Now that's a Rant!!! :)

[jodybo]

To the OP, the same deal happened to me, except my bill comes to me through email, so I caught it in time by Tuesday. Cancelled NBA ticket 2 months ago and I checked after I cancelled that it was off the account and when I paid my bill last month. No NBA ticket was on the account, this months bill comes do, and guess what there it is. And like the the OP I was pissed. The CSR rep I talked even had notes about when I called last and cancelled it.

If was not so busy and had time to switch, I would. But I appreciate what my $268 / month gets me as far as sports packages and programming in general ( Minus the entire Versus deal and MSG HD ) so I left it alone.

But, it's a crappy business practice and they tried to sneak it in. The OP did not catch it in time, I did.

As far the bashing the OP, get a freaking life. There was no Rant, he needed advice and help. Some of you need to stop hiding behind your keyboards and take some of that expertise that you think you have and put it to good use. There are far less helpers here than there used to be.

Now that's a Rant!!! :)

Wow so this is a clear pattern. Amazing! Oh well, life goes on. But not until after I fire off about 15 letters tomorrow. I have a bunch of 10K studying to do to find adresses for all the board members.

[veryoldschool]

...Now that's a Rant!!! :)
I normally use [/rant] :lol:
One thing I've learned dealing with customer service is to get to the right person, if I want something done.
Not all CSRs have the same system access, which can be/has been frustrating. This isn't just with DirecTV [anymore], customer service has deteriorated over the years.
"I can bang my head" as hard or as many times as I want, but "one shot" to the right person, works much better.

[cygnusloop]

And this is EXACTLY why and who the email address is for.

If you want to write letters to the board, go ahead. First, however, I would send a polite email (essentially the info in your OP) to the previously posted email.

Many issues such as yours have been quickly and satisfactorily handled this way. It's unfortunate that they happen, but such is life.

If you would rather go on a crusade, that's up to you.

[sigma1914]

Goodness...Since my use of the word rant has caused such a problem, it wasn't meant in such a negative way to "flame" the OP. A rant isn't that big of a deal, really. I was simply saying that Directv board member and millionaire Mr. XYZ probably won't even read his story. Ellen's people take care of business, though, so I reaffirmed Stuart's advice.

[lee78221]

I would send an e-mail to Ellen Filipiak: ellen.filipiak@directv.comOr:

Use this number: The number to DirecTV HQ is 13109645000, ask for Ellen Filipiak, Sr. Vice President Customer Care. You might get to talk to one of her reps but they're very helpful.


I had them help me when DirecTV mishandled my disconnection about little less then 3 years ago. I wanted to come back, but CSRs at DirecTV still wanted me to pay the $300 for early disconnect when it wasn't even valid.

I had them take the ding off my report and I also got some deals coming back in.

----------------------------

(IMO) The only thing the OP did wrong was to cancel before getting any help from higher up's. Good luck OP.

[dreadlk]

As some of you may or may not know, DirecTV has a very specific gameplan in place to make life very difficult for anyone attempting to cancel any programming. You call, give your account number, confirm for security reasons and then are transfered because the person you talked to can't cancel. As you are transfered you are placed on hold for roughly 5 mnutes, then someone picks up and you have to start from the top with your account number, mother's maiden name for security, etc. That person then has no ability to do anything and will come up with a reason why they can't help you, and transfer you to yet another person. Same story, you are on hold for 5 minutes, then you have to start from the top with the next person.
Comments, thoughts?

I can testify to this part and it does not involve programming, just a simple deactivation of an old receiver. I have about 3 Hughes receivers from 7+ years ago on my account. I decided to deactivate two of them since I now had HR20, HR23 and and R15. I thought this would be simple but to make a long story short, I was put on hold numerous times, asked one million questions then transferred then told plain and simple "I Cannot deactivate the Receivers Sir, there is no harm in just leaving them on the account." Well I said there’s a charge for each receiver, I would like to eliminate that charge, well Sir I cannot remove them, I will have to transfer you to a supervisor. Ok go ahead, so 10 minutes later, a new person and I have to repeat the whole story again. At this point he tells me that he cannot authorize a deactivation and that I best just keep all the receivers, I explain again about not needing them and possible charges etc. He says he will have to transfer me to someone higher up, at this point I say NO NO, please NO I can't waste anymore time on this, at that point he says what do you want to do, I said I will just keep the receivers maybe put a TV in the Kitchen or the Bathroom :)
I have never seen a system that was designed to be so difficult just to turn off an unused receiver.

[RAD]

Guess YMMV, I had no problems deactivating a R15 and H20 STB, just gave them the RID and they were off the account.

[veryoldschool]

^ This sounds a bit like the call center in the Philippines.
Getting transferred [almost anywhere else] might have been the thing to do.
I always ask where they are. This gives me a heads up [I do the same with all calls to customer service].
A lot [most] programing/billing calls seem to be routed offshore and tech problems stay onshore. [FWIW]

[Glenee]

I think the guy is right in all aspects. It gets quite frustrating with DTV. If you ask them to send you a email saying they cancelled it, I 'm sorry I can't send you a confirmation Email, which is Bull****. It shouldn't take 45 min to a hour to get something done on a cancellation. It doesn't take that long to add something now does it.

[vollmey]

Wow so this is a clear pattern. Amazing! Oh well, life goes on. But not until after I fire off about 15 letters tomorrow. I have a bunch of 10K studying to do to find adresses for all the board members.

I don't blame you one bit, take it to them.

I was so dissapointed Saturday when I had to call, I almost pulled the plug. And to be honest if the Versus deal is not done by the NHL playoff's I am going to keep Direct TV but see what Cox cable has to offer. I'll pay for both for a bit, heck I already have phone and internet through them.

Good luck to you.

[Gloria_Chavez]

JodyBo, I'd provide a link to this thread in your written letters, so that he/she can see that yours is not an isolated incident.

[vansmack]

I bet his wife didn't really cancel because she's a huge fan of some out of market team and didn't want to tell her husband. Happens all the time...

[dreadlk]

Guess YMMV, I had no problems deactivating a R15 and H20 STB, just gave them the RID and they were off the account.

I wish I was that lucky.

[JLucPicard]

Once again I appreciate the comments. I'm going to send a registered letter with return receipt requested to each member of the board of directors, and each member of the executive staff.

I'll let you guys know how it goes. As for myself, I just want to avoid 200 calls from a collections agent because I didn't pay certain portions of my DTV bill. I honestly feel I have been defrauded and that DTV broke their contract with me by not canceling the NBA package.
jodybo,

I would first like to extend to you a friendly Welcome to DBSTalk! :welcome_s

Sorry about all the trouble you've had.

From a "going forward" standpoint, may I offer this advice...

If any of your receivers were leased, make sure they send return kits for any of them that were and need to be returned. When you get them, make a note of each receivers' model number, receiver ID number, the access card number and the FedEx tracking number that matches each receiver. (It's my understanding that a return kit is processed for each receiver and each receiver matches a FedEx tracking number, but I could be mistaken).

Check the FedEx tracking tool to see when the receivers are received by DirecTV, then follow up with DirecTV to make sure they show that the receivers listed on your account are marked/noted as returned.

Unfortunately, DirecTV's return tracking process can also leave something to be desired and it would be in your best interest to hand-hold that through the process to avoid getting charged for non-return fees in error. Also be aware that they will scan the access cards and if there are any unpaid PPV purchases on them, they will be billed at that time (if you can still do it, you may be able to look at "Purchases" on each receiver to do a quick chekc on that).

I would not let too much time go by without receiving the return kits. If you don't see them within a week, I would definitely call and make sure they were sent. Once you receive the kits, I would pack them up and return them right away.

Best of luck to you on your further dealings and I hope that Ellen's office can help make the rest of this a whole lot smoother than what lead up to it.

[bixler]

So, the bill comes Saturday and you see a charge you don't expect but you wait until Tuesday to make the call? You couldn't make 30 mins on Saturday, Sunday, or Monday to call? Your wife couldn't make the call?

[MIAMI1683]

jodybo,

I would first like to extend to you a friendly Welcome to DBSTalk! :welcome_s

Sorry about all the trouble you've had.

From a "going forward" standpoint, may I offer this advice...

If any of your receivers were leased, make sure they send return kits for any of them that were and need to be returned. When you get them, make a note of each receivers' model number, receiver ID number, the access card number and the FedEx tracking number that matches each receiver. (It's my understanding that a return kit is processed for each receiver and each receiver matches a FedEx tracking number, but I could be mistaken).

Check the FedEx tracking tool to see when the receivers are received by DirecTV, then follow up with DirecTV to make sure they show that the receivers listed on your account are marked/noted as returned.

Unfortunately, DirecTV's return tracking process can also leave something to be desired and it would be in your best interest to hand-hold that through the process to avoid getting charged for non-return fees in error. Also be aware that they will scan the access cards and if there are any unpaid PPV purchases on them, they will be billed at that time (if you can still do it, you may be able to look at "Purchases" on each receiver to do a quick chekc on that).

I would not let too much time go by without receiving the return kits. If you don't see them within a week, I would definitely call and make sure they were sent. Once you receive the kits, I would pack them up and return them right away.

Best of luck to you on your further dealings and I hope that Ellen's office can help make the rest of this a whole lot smoother than what lead up to it.


This post was excellent advice :D. Keep that in mind

[ciurca]

I appreciate you coming on here and letting us know what happened to you. It just goes to show that you pretty much have to keep checking to see if something is canceled.

I also would like apologize for the way some people have treated you here. Some people here can't stand anyone saying anything bad about Directv. Personally I've not had that many problems and enjoy the serivce.

It's no wonder why a lot of people on here won't even post. Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves and grow up. Everyone has a right to vent and no this thread was not dead. It reminded me that when I cancel I need to keep checking to see if it really happened. It also reminded me that this board has a few bad apples too. The guy was a newbie and you still couldn't cut him a break. Grow up!

+1

[Shades228]

I would recomend sending the email rather than waste time through mail. If you think corporate officers, or board members, will actually read that then you've never dealt with a company this large before. They all get screened and forwarded to the departments who are going to take care of the matter. It will be resolved faster, and the same resolution, doing the email Stuart gave you.

Good luck wherever you go.

[Tom Robertson]

Hey guys, the topic is helping the thread starter. Not each other, not who is or isn't posting, etc. :backtotop

Thanks,
Tom

[BKC]

I appreciate you coming on here and letting us know what happened to you. It just goes to show that you pretty much have to keep checking to see if something is canceled.

I also would like apologize for the way some people have treated you here. Some people here can't stand anyone saying anything bad about Directv. Personally I've not had that many problems and enjoy the serivce.

It's no wonder why a lot of people on here won't even post. Some of you should be ashamed of yourselves and grow up. Everyone has a right to vent and no this thread was not dead. It reminded me that when I cancel I need to keep checking to see if it really happened. It also reminded me that this board has a few bad apples too. The guy was a newbie and you still couldn't cut him a break. Grow up!

Amen :)

[BKC]

To the OP, the same deal happened to me, except my bill comes to me through email, so I caught it in time by Tuesday. Cancelled NBA ticket 2 months ago and I checked after I cancelled that it was off the account and when I paid my bill last month. No NBA ticket was on the account, this months bill comes due, and guess what there it is. And like the the OP I was pissed. The CSR rep I talked even had notes about when I called last and cancelled it.

If was not I so busy and had time to switch, I would. But I appreciate what my $268 / month gets me as far as sports packages and programming in general ( Minus the entire Versus deal and MSG HD ) so I left it alone.

But, it's a crappy business practice and they tried to sneak it in. The OP did not catch it in time, I did.

As far the bashing the OP, get a freaking life. There was no Rant, he needed advice and help. Some of you need to stop hiding behind your keyboards and take some of that expertise that you think you have and put it to good use. There are far less helpers here than there used to be.

Now that's a Rant!!! :)

Dang, two Amen's in one thread :)

[inkahauts]

I joined this forum because I am hoping for the names and physical addresses of execs at DTV for me to send my formal registered complaint. Prior to tuesday of this week I was a HUGE DTV fan, I loved them. That has all changed, and I am no longer a DTV customer. This is not a big deal money wise, but they drove me through the roof and now I am madder than hell. Here's my story:


I pretty much have/had the DTV Cadillac package. I have 5 receivers including 3 HD receivers and 2 HD DVRs. I have the Sunday Ticket, all the movie channels, and the NBA package. My wife and I recently moved into a new house, and with the addition of 2 new receivers I decided my bill was going to be out of hand and I wanted to find a way to make a cut. It was at that point, roughly 6 weeks ago, that I decided I didn't need the NBA package. I asked my wife to call DirecTV and cancel the NBA package. That night she informed me that she spoke with DirecTV and that the NBA package had been canceled.

Now, fast forward to this past Saturday. My DTV bill comes in the mail and I'm perusing through it (it was roughly $300), it was especially high at $300 because of the Sunday Ticket AND the first installment of the NBA package which is 4 or 5 charges of $49.99. I thought, well that's odd and I again confirmed with my wife that she had canceled the NBA to which she said "absolutely yes, it should be canceled".

Monday I was in Miami for work but Tuesday (the day of the NBA's opening night) I was back in the office and I called DTV to cancel the NBA. As some of you may or may not know, DirecTV has a very specific gameplan in place to make life very difficult for anyone attempting to cancel any programming. You call, give your account number, confirm for security reasons and then are transfered because the person you talked to can't cancel. As you are transfered you are placed on hold for roughly 5 mnutes, then someone picks up and you have to start from the top with your account number, mother's maiden name for security, etc. That person then has no ability to do anything and will come up with a reason why they can't help you, and transfer you to yet another person. Same story, you are on hold for 5 minutes, then you have to start from the top with the next person.

So, now that you understand the process you can place yourself in my shoes as the conumser calling to cancel one part of an account that DTV gets to bill a couple of hundred to every month. The third person that I get on the line is allegedly in the "cancellations" department and after going through the situation with her, here is what she says:

Remember, by this time I am pretty agitated because I have been on the phone with these people for 20+ minutes including hold time:

Her: "I'm sorry sir, but we cannot cancel sports programming once the season has started"

Me: "A: my wife called and canceled the programming a month ago and for some reason it wasn't cancelled. B: THE SEASON HAS NOT STARTED"

Her: "I see it noted here that she called and requested the cancelation... she said she was going to call back and hung up"

Me: "What? What does that even mean? It sounds to me like she called and canceled the programming and you guys failed to do your part, how is that my problem"

Her: "I'm sorry sir, I cannot cancel midseason"

You get the gist. I am infuriated by this exchange and I tell her in very simple terms to cancle the NBA package, issue a credit, or terminate my programming. She asks to transfer me to her manager to which I say "no more transfers", she says "please there is nothing I can do he might be able to help". I say fine and am put on hold.

Same story, 5 minutes later some guy answers and I start from the top.

He give sme the same song and dance about canceling mid season. This time I am not in the mood to debate the subject and I say very sternly:

"Look, it's very simple, cancel the NBA package or cancel my programming and you will not see another penny from me."

He then reads off the terms of programming cancellation which includes all kinds of crap that I know is going to mean future invoicing and billing. I have since taken the appropriate steps to insure that they have no ability to get money from me without my direct approval, but I know if not correctly managed by me this is going to lead to collections calls and a potential credit ding. I believe they breached our contract by failing to cancel the NBA package and essentially defrauded me by billing me and refusing to cancel and issue a credit despite the fact that the season had not started.

Comments, thoughts?

Well, that sucks...

However, there are ways to avoid some of the issues you ran into.. I have never had an issue dealing with the phone system.. at the first prompt, say cancel.. and it generally will leed you to the retention department.. I have found them to be very helpful, and while sometimes needing to be transfered for whatever reason, its generally to a technical department, not just another csr group....

I think you jumped the gun a little on all your letters... Ellen would have been my first contact, and I would have waited to see what went down with her.. even before canceling.. Why? Because how someone who is in charge of customer service handles your situation is far more indicative of company policy than how a csr handles it.. CSRs are told to be robots.. which means they can't say or do anything out of line.. Ellen can do whatever the heck she wants... and we all know that general company policy is really determined by what the people that have the power to make an actual decision do for you.. Thats a sad state of things, but thats where we are... (don;t get me started on why we are there) And also, if she was unable to make you happy, then your letter would have far more weight when the board read it.. and it would also have more weight if she was able to fix your situation and make you happy, but you felt the systems that are in place needed to be changed, because you could point out that the fact you had to use up someones time who is paid I am sure well into the six figures, to fix a stupid billing error.. Yeah, thats called inefficiency at its best, and thats something companies do not want...

As it is now, sending any letters to the board members will be looked at as someone trying to fix a billing error.. They will not hear your true reasons for sending them the letters, which is to point out a major systems issue and express your displeasure in the grief it is causing you and time it is wasting for both parties...... (yes, I think this is a systems/processes issue no matter how you slice it)

Right now they will say how do we help him.. If you wait till its fixed to your satisfaction (avoiding all the fees, or reinstating service at a heavy discount, whatever) then it will be a what went wrong to make that happen?

Just my 2 cents...

And I don't think your on a rant.... I think you have a legitimate gripe, and I hope Ellen can fix it.. assuming we have all the facts... Not a knock on you, but some people have left things out of their posts that make a situation totally different from what they are trying to represent, although this does not seem like that kind of case... :D


I hope you let us know what all happens in the end, I'd be very interested to see how it turns out...

[Laker44]

jodybo,I had a similar issue that you had.I had unsubscribed to MLB-EI at the end of the 2008 season.Had the CSR send a conformation email that is was canceled and i noticed it was removed from my online account.

This spring on my March bill the first installment for MLB-Ei was listed and my online it had been added and they had already taken out of my bank account.After talking to 4 CSR's and the only thing they said that they could was cancel it and credit my account.Told the last CSR that was unacceptable and that i wanted speak to a Supervisor.I told him the money should've have never been taken out in the first place and that if they could take the money out of my bank account they could it back in my bank account.After him putting me on hold for 10-15 min.,he came back and said it had been put back into my bank account and that he would sent me a confirmation email.While he was talking to me i received the conformation email and noticed the money was back in my bank account.

I was lucky they where able to resolve my problem.If i was you i contact Ellen by email and if she didn't resolve your problem then contact the other officials.

[justice2]

What else is there to say?

He over-reacted, and bit off his nose to spite his face. Now, he wants contact info for someone at D* - That was the point of the thread. He received that info. Case closed.

Now, we can go on for 5 more days with some of us saying he over-reacted and others saying D* sucks and the rest of us are fanboys, etc., etc.

But in the end, what will have changed? He'll still be a former D* subscriber, he'll still have the Email address he came here hoping to find and we'll all still have our same opinions.

There's not one thing that can be added to this thread. To me, that's a dead thread.

I've been a DTV customer for more than 15 years and subscribe to almost every sports package. Well satisfied. BUT it certainly isn't a "rant" to inform this forum of a problem with DTV billing which is not all that uncommon and the responses from veteran members of this forum do seem to be protective of DTV rather than informative. I hope the original poster will keep us informed of Dirctv's response to him. It is inadequate thus far.

[spartanstew]

I've been a DTV customer for more than 15 years and subscribe to almost every sports package. Well satisfied. BUT it certainly isn't a "rant" to inform this forum of a problem with DTV billing which is not all that uncommon and the responses from veteran members of this forum do seem to be protective of DTV rather than informative. I hope the original poster will keep us informed of Dirctv's response to him. It is inadequate thus far.

1. I never said it was a rant.
2. I never said what D* did was right or protected them. They screwed up, but he over-reacted by canceling. Now, there's no way to correct the problem or assist him. He can write his letter/Email telling them what happened and maybe it will reduce the likelihood of it happening to someone else in the future, but there's nothing that can be done for the OP now.

[mogulman]

This is some good information. I never would have bothered to check anything after calling and requesting that something be canceled with DTV. I probably would have waited for the bill as well....

Sorry about what happened to you OP. Hopefully, your problem will help me to avoid running into this issue. Also, hopefully, your letters to DTV will help them understand the quality of some of their call center and improve it for the rest of us.

[jodybo]

So, the bill comes Saturday and you see a charge you don't expect but you wait until Tuesday to make the call? You couldn't make 30 mins on Saturday, Sunday, or Monday to call? Your wife couldn't make the call?

Correct.

I was very busy with the kids saturday afternoon/evening and I flew to Miami early Sunday morning for a conference. I was with clients and vendors all day Sunday and monday morning, and got back to the house late monday.

Do people now have to apologize for having more important things to do than spend dubious amounts of time on the phone with DirecTV?

Why does this matter anyway? I called before the NBA season started and my wife called several weeks prior. The absurdity of it is that DirecTV gives everyone the first week for free anyway. Everyone gets it for free, the season hasn't started, yet I can't cancel?

BTW, to those interested I now have mailing addresses for 7 of the 9 directors and will be sending letters to each corporate officer at the El Segundo address listed on the DirecTV groups 10K including Ellen Filipiak. However, I am going to wait till the end of the day today to see if she responds to my email from yesterday.

Thanks folks.

[taz291819]

I must admit, in the past 10 years of service with Directv, I've never had any big issues with the CSRs, though I've had to play CSR-roulette a time or two.

With that said, I had a similar issue as the OP last year with Gameplan. I called in August to cancel, once I saw the first auto-subscription bill. The week before the season started, I called again to verify it had been canceled, and it had not. Luckily, I did call back, or else I may have gone through the same thing. It really shouldn't be the customers responsibility to have to make a follow-up call once you cancel the first.

[Max Mike]

I can't quite understand why his initial post is considered a "rant".

Because DirecTV sycophants cannot stand hearing the truth.

DirecTV has a long established pattern of exactly this kind of abusive behavior. The OP in no way over-reacted he acted in a absolutely reasonable manner while confronting a unethical business. For goodness sake DirecTV had it in their notes they had called to cancel and still DirecTV tried this stunt.

This was a brain dead simple issue DirecTV had noted the customers wishes and did not execute their wishes, this happens frequently. The simple truth is DirecTV reps are either so incompetent they cannot be trusted to handle simple issues for customers or DirecTV is intentional and unethical playing games with customers so as to lock them in to programming costs… probably both.

[sigma1914]

Because DirecTV sycophants cannot stand hearing the truth.



I had to google that word. :lol: In case anyone is clueless, like me, here's the meaning:
a sycophant (from the Greek συκοφάντης sykophántēs) is a servile person who, acting in his or her own self-interest, attempts to win favor by flattering one or more influential persons, or by saying lies against a fellow citizen for gaining a kind of profit. These actions are executed at the cost of his or her own personal pride, principles, and peer respect.

[spartanstew]

I can't quite understand why his initial post is considered a "rant".

Because DirecTV sycophants cannot stand hearing the truth............


Incorrect. It's a rant, because that's what it is. Nobody (that I remember) said it wasn't the truth or that D* didn't do anything wrong. That doesn't change the fact that it's a rant.

Rant - to speak or write in an angry or violent manner

they drove me through the roof and now I am madder than hell. ..........
by this time I am pretty agitated ......... I am infuriated by this exchange

Seems angry to me. Whether he was right or wrong (or D* right or wrong) and whether he was justified or not is up to you to decide, but either way it doesn't matter, it's still a rant.

[Lee L]

I thought we were already asked to stop arguing whether it was a rant or not?

THis thread actually reminded me to see about cancelling Full Court. My wife checked last night and it looks like all or at least 99% of the games we are really interested in are being shown on RSNs or other channels we already have. Last year, I think we watched one game in the first half of the season. SO, we decided to cancel it and look again when the half season offers start the first part of January. Having any of the game sin HD would be somewhat in favor of keeping it though.

Anyway, I called to cancel and the woman either purposefully or accidentally lied to me and said it could not be cancelled until after the season was over. Three times she seemed to answer my questions by talking around what I was saying like she somehow did not understand. I imagine that a certain number of subs would just assume she was right.

I asked her if it was not the policy of direcTV that Sports packages could only be cancelled before the season was started and she said yes. I then asked her what day they had as the start of College Basketball and she said November something (in the teens). I pointed out that since it was still October 30th, we should be good to go, then she suddenly could understand me and started extolling all the benefits of the package. I explained (just as I already had done before she "got confused" about the date that we knew the benefits but had checked all the programming and games we wanted and decided not to renew and she finally cancelled it. I did get her operator number and time so I will check again in a couple of days.

[Impala1ss]

He wanted the contact information and it's now been given. I believe this thread has run it's course and can now be closed.

God. The biggest pain in my butt are the posters who want to shut off any criticism of Directv. When D* screws up, it should be discussed in great detail. That is the only thing that will motivate them. All the Fanboys in the world with their condescending attitudes about people's complaints, can't shut out the truth.

Criticising a poster for what he posts is a severe breach of ettiquette. Who deigned them to tell people what or when to post. The Forum Police strike again.

[spartanstew]

God. The biggest pain in my butt are the posters who want to shut off any criticism of Directv. When D* screws up, it should be discussed in great detail. That is the only thing that will motivate them. All the Fanboys in the world with their condescending attitudes about people's complaints, can't shut out the truth.

There are plenty of threads with criticism about D*. I agree those complaints should be voiced, and hopefully they will be heard. Nobody is claiming that D* is perfect or that they shouldn't be criticized. Obviously, my point alluded you, so here it is again: in this particular thread the OP asked for a piece of information and it was given (right away).

You can continue to throw around the words fanboy and condescending and pray to your God if it makes you feel better, but that has nothing to do with this thread or what I stated.

PS. If the biggest pain in your butt is members using logic, then you must lead a very charmed life.

[Balestrom]

rant  –verb (used without object) 1. to speak or declaim extravagantly or violently; talk in a wild or vehement way; rave: The demagogue ranted for hours.


Not a rant. :D Nothing wild or vehement about it.


I am sorry to hear about your issue. I had to cancel MLB once a few years ago and all went well, easy as pie, no issues... blah blah blah.

My point is that I use love DirecTV customer service. I use to brag about it. Really! I ue to ask for the CSR manager so I could tell them how I appreciated the CSR's help.

See, I have managed call center staff in my distant past for a telecommunications company. I spent several years, actually, working with quality assurance staff, team leads etc... to improve processes, to train CSR's . I have a good idea of what good service is and a good idea about customer focus.

When I see it in other companies, I am very complimentary.

Something happened a few years ago to DirecTV. I am not sure what it was, but the focus had shifted, things (I feel) did get much worse.

This post has been helpful for me, because now I know how difficult it is in 2009 to cancel an expensive sports package. I now know all the issues other have had.

Each year, I toss around the idea of getting MLB again. I think this helps me in my decision for 2010. If there might be billing issues, if I have to worry that DirecTV could potentially add this for 2011 without my authorization, if I have to worry about cancellation issues if, for whatever reason life demands, then it is not worth the effort.

Thank you for this post!

I wish you the best and hope you get the ear of someone who can do something for you.

[Impala1ss]

There are plenty of threads with criticism about D*. I agree those complaints should be voiced, and hopefully they will be heard. Nobody is claiming that D* is perfect or that they shouldn't be criticized. Obviously, my point alluded you, so here it is again: in this particular thread the OP asked for a piece of information and it was given (right away).

You can continue to throw around the words fanboy and condescending and pray to your God if it makes you feel better, but that has nothing to do with this thread or what I stated.

PS. If the biggest pain in your butt is members using logic, then you must lead a very charmed life.

Your idea of logic, shuts off discussion of problems. Who are you that has such a right?

None is so blind an he who who will not see. Your post to me drips of further elitism and condescension. I suggest you worry about your own problems and not criticise others who DO have problems with D* .

I'm sure you will also tell others to be quiet about the
0X368 problems being experienced all over. I'm also sure you that you feel they have no right to vent/rant/complain/state the obvious. Why don't you just write us a list of rules we all should follow. It would save you a lot of unnecessary posts.

[bonscott87]

Honestly I think the issue boils down to one thing that everyone seemed to miss:


Me: "A: my wife called and canceled the programming a month ago and for some reason it wasn't cancelled. B: THE SEASON HAS NOT STARTED"

Her: "I see it noted here that she called and requested the cancelation... she said she was going to call back and hung up"

Me: "What? What does that even mean? It sounds to me like she called and canceled the programming and you guys failed to do your part, how is that my problem"



To me that sounds like the rep the wife spoke to had the impression to not actually cancel it just yet as it's noted the wife would call back. Sounds like the rep thought that the wife was going to confirm the cancellation and then call back to confirm. So either the rep wasn't correct in that assumption or the wife was incorrect thinking it was really canceled when DirecTV was waiting for a call back to confirm said cancellation.

It's all water under the bridge at this point but an obvious miscommunication between rep and wife.

[spartanstew]

Your idea of logic, shuts off discussion of problems. Who are you that has such a right?

None is so blind an he who who will not see. Your post to me drips of further elitism and condescension. I suggest you worry about your own problems and not criticise others who DO have problems with D* .

I'm sure you will also tell others to be quiet about the
0X368 problems being experienced all over. I'm also sure you that you feel they have no right to vent/rant/complain/state the obvious. Why don't you just write us a list of rules we all should follow. It would save you a lot of unnecessary posts.

And none is so deaf as he who will not hear. I've yet to tell someone to be quiet about problems they might be experiencing, nor have I criticized someone that has problems. Your accusation of such just shows that you either can't read what I write or you're having trouble comprehending it. I didn't realize this was a thread that was intended to elicit everyone's complaints about D* and their problems with customer service. If that was the intent, then have at it, nobody will silence you. I thought this was a thread where they OP was trying to find out a piece of information (which he received). Obviously, I was mistaken. It's just another thread among many where members are retelling the same complaints they've told in numerous other threads. Hey, that's fine. Everyone needs a chance to rant, I guess. Go ahead, get it all out. Don't hold it in and then go home and beat the wife and kids. I don't want that on my conscience. I'll depart this thread now and leave you all to your complaints and gripes. Have fun.

[WestDC]

A few months ago (on this very site) a lot of angry folks were posting about calling in and Canceling NFLST in March and april and finding out just by looking at there june bill the NFLST $0.00 SF $0.00 was still showing again, so off to the phone again to call in. and cancel.

At the time it was explained as a glitch in the software it was added back, I doubt it, It's there so the charges can be in place and when the season starts your screwed.

It pays to watch your Bill no matter how busy you are! I'm sure the NBA fee of $0.00 was on the bill at some point before the season started.

[sigma1914]

Wow...

[ThomasM]

Error number one: Having your wife call DirecTV. You cannot verify what took place during that conversation including the statement from one of the CSR's that she said she was going to call back. Why would a CSR come up with that if it wasn't true?

Error number two: Losing your cool. The folks who kept transferring you were probably just following their script with no malice specifically directed to you. In this day of voice response systems, long holds to talk to the proper person, and that famous "sorry I can't do that" response it is hard to stay calm. But in order to get anywhere you MUST keep your cool. Many times when I end up in this situation (fortunately not with DirecTV so far) I shake it off and actually tell the next person in the chain what is happening without being upset. These people get connected to grumpy customers all day and a breath of fresh air will certainly motivate them to help you and not transfer you.

Error number three: Cancelling all service and blocking all DirecTV billing methods from collecting. With all the service and equipment you have (had), you must have really enjoyed DirecTV. Once DirecTV figured out that you have been lost as a source of revenue, they had no reason to work on your problem and reverted to simply quoting the rules and the agreement you went along with.

What *I* would have done.....

First, I would have attempted to contact a manager multiple times. I would have documented each phone call. If they refused to connect you to a manager, I would have discussed the situation with the cancellations dept. (but I would be very careful not to cancel my service or any receivers). I would just address the "cancellation" of the sports package. Since they admitted receiving the call from your wife with the purpose of cancelling the sports package BEFORE the season started, you are not in violation of their agreement. They are just at fault for not doing it. I would keep asking the question "since your company admits my wife called to cancel this package before the season started, why didn't you do it?"

Since you were able to block DirecTV from collecting money from you, I would have continued to pay the bill by check BUT I would have deducted the charge for the sports package your wife attempted to cancel. Refusing to pay any part of the bill will damage your credit rating a LOT for the next 5 years especially when DirecTV turns it over to a collection agency (and they will!).

Finally, I would have written to your state's consumer protection agency. DirecTV customers in Wisconsin had great success with this plan when they were not allowed to cancel without an ETF when they weren't advised that adding equipment would reset their commitment. Others complained when a new installation only days old didn't work (trees blocking the signal, etc.) but were also told they were stuck with an ETF.

It's probably too late now but hopefully others in the same situation will take me up on some of my suggestions...

[hdtvfan0001]

I must be in the minority on all this.

It appears the OP has a course of action to follow and seems to be doing that.

Wondering why there are 71 posts and over 2600 views if that's the case....?

[guffy1]

I'm not quite sure how it is a rant. If you read my story there is no rant, just a factual conversation of what happened.

And as to whether or not they will care, perhaps some won't, and perhaps some will. This is the type of thing that might interest good management. I can tell you, I'm not going to serve on a board and then ignore the potential problems with the company. I doubt that's what the shareholders want out of their board members.

Thanks for the advice regarding Ellen, I have emailed her.

Its a rant because these people are in love with Directv and they get upset when someone calls Directv on their shady business practices. These people somehow have a personal attatchment to Directv. You will get nowhere with these people...Sorry thats how it is around here. Bash Directv and they will treat you like the plague. Pathetic I know, but thats DBS for ya.

There are a very few people here that can and will be helpful. The Directv slaves you will just need to ignore though... You will not get any help from the majority of them unless you are singing the praises of Directv.

[Stuart Sweet]

I think it's fair to point out that many folks come to this site because they like their choice of service provider. If they are a little too forward in DIRECTV's defense, it's not always meant as blind devotion.

[cygnusloop]

Its a rant because these people are in love with Directv and they get upset when someone calls Directv on their shady business practices. These people somehow have a personal attatchment to Directv. You will get nowhere with these people...Sorry thats how it is around here. Bash Directv and they will treat you like the plague. Pathetic I know, but thats DBS for ya.

There are a very few people here that can and will be helpful. The Directv slaves you will just need to ignore though... You will not get any help from the majority of them unless you are singing the praises of Directv.

^^^

!rolling!rolling!rolling!rolling!rolling!rolling

[veryoldschool]

I must be in the minority on all this.

It appears the OP has a course of action to follow and seems to be doing that.

Wondering why there are 71 posts and over 2600 views if that's the case....?
Because the question/help was asked & answered, yet the thread has turned into "one of those threads" [which some could see coming].

[sigma1914]

Did anyone read this? http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=2260952#post2260952
Goodness...Since my use of the word rant has caused such a problem, it wasn't meant in such a negative way to "flame" the OP. A rant isn't that big of a deal, really. I was simply saying that Directv board member and millionaire Mr. XYZ probably won't even read his story. Ellen's people take care of business, though, so I reaffirmed Stuart's advice.

[hdtvfan0001]

There are a very few people here that can and will be helpful. The Directv slaves you will just need to ignore though... You will not get any help from the majority of them unless you are singing the praises of Directv.
Disagree.

It's all about the approach...

If someone chooses to post using vent or rant lingo....they will tend to get one category of responses.

If they explain (without all sorts of emotion in their post) their problem...they get another type of response.

The issue appears to be HOW something is posted/stated, not WHAT.

For a first-time poster to enter DBSTalk raving about a problem....not surprised it might just get met with all types of replies.

Few people wish to deal with venters....many are glad to help people with problems.

Having read thread names and first posts here for many years....you can pretty much see how a thread will go based on how the issue is addressed from the start.

[mhayes70]

There are a very few people here that can and will be helpful. The Directv slaves you will just need to ignore though... You will not get any help from the majority of them unless you are singing the praises of Directv.

That is totally not true. I have gotten tons of help for my problems here. Do they get solved everytime? No. Because not everyone knows the answer. But, I have learned tons of stuff here on Directv and Dish.

[Balestrom]

I must be in the minority on all this.

It appears the OP has a course of action to follow and seems to be doing that.

Wondering why there are 71 posts and over 2600 views if that's the case....?

Because there are now two story lines.

The first was the OP issue.

The second was the immediate, somewhat negative and somewhat predictable reaction by some to the OP, which was followed by the equal and opposite reaction by others.

Thus, comes the fun and crazy back and forth that I have actually grown to enjoy with DBS. At first its like a fungus, but as it begins to grow on you, you cannot help but admire its colorful persistance.

Think of the original post like golf. Has some viewership, but many think it boring in and of itself.

Then add landmines and alligators and who can resist but to watch! :grin:

[WestDC]

There are a very few people here that can and will be helpful. The Directv slaves you will just need to ignore though... You will not get any help from the majority of them unless you are singing the praises of Directv.

MAn, I thought I was just under commitment :D

[Stuart Sweet]

Folks, I'm going to ask you all to be a little more civil. Please don't attack each other for the amount of commitment you have to this site or to your service provider.

It's completely ok to talk about your negative experiences here, because those experiences are just as valid as any others.

When a thread starts being more about rudeness and insulting each other than the original topic, I have no choice but to close it or issue infractions.

[wingrider01]

Its a rant because these people are in love with Directv and they get upset when someone calls Directv on their shady business practices. These people somehow have a personal attatchment to Directv. You will get nowhere with these people...Sorry thats how it is around here. Bash Directv and they will treat you like the plague. Pathetic I know, but thats DBS for ya.

There are a very few people here that can and will be helpful. The Directv slaves you will just need to ignore though... You will not get any help from the majority of them unless you are singing the praises of Directv.

In managing a CS organization back in my days of youth the cardinal rule that we saw when people ranted, complained or whined about anything that happened was that if they got what they want the service was great, if they did not the service sucked and was the worst in the world.

Good habit is to take ANY interwhine complaint about any customer service personnel is to remember you are only hearing one side of the issue and that side is made to look like the issue was reported 100 percent correctly on the caller side, you never know the true and correct report from both sides.

[HoTat2]

In managing a CS organization back in my days of youth the cardinal rule that we saw when people ranted, complained or whined about anything that happened was that if they got what they want the service was great, if they did not the service sucked and was the worst in the world.

Good habit is to take ANY interwhine complaint about any customer service personnel is to remember you are only hearing one side of the issue and that side is made to look like the issue was reported 100 percent correctly on the caller side, you never know the true and correct report from both sides.

This is my point as well. You see the problem with the positions put forth by Impala1ss and guffy1 in defense of the OP and criticizing all others who do not choose to immediately jump on the OP's bash DirecTV bandwagon in flaming them is that their argument can actually cut both ways since on a board like this you can only hear the plaintiff's unchallenged version and never the defendant. And simply because DirecTV is the rich and powerful they must always be assumed to be the villain and 100% wrong while the plaintiff is always the 100% innocent victim.

Well, as was pointed out here the notes on the account stated that the OP's wife never formally canceled through a call-back. Now the OP states this is not true, and I'm sure his wife told him so, but in all fairness to DirecTV you really don't know this for sure and are only assuming as much because the OP claims it.

But regardless of what really happened, I really see no reason for the OP to go ballistic and cancel service, and then try and write umpteenth angry letters of complaint to the DirecTV board of directors over a billing error. As has been posted in numerous threads on this board many times before is the best course of action when this occurs is to maintain your cool, contact Ellen Filipiack's office, and/or talk to customer retention first before going to other such extremes.

[lparsons21]

You are right, you can't depend on an original report as being 100% correct. But you can depend on certain parts of it. Note in the original posting how many times transferred, and how long on the phone. That is absolutely ridiculous! One simple phone call to cancel a part of your service should suffice, you shouldn't need to call back, think it over or whatever other excuse is given for it not being cancelled in the 1st place.

And frankly, D* sets themselves up for this imo, when they make things more difficult than they have to be. Cancelling a portion or all of the service should be no more difficult than signing up. If it is, then they will continue to get dinged for the customer service.

In my case, when I cancelled service with D*, it was simple and painless and took very little time. I'm just amazed when I read the all too many stories of others that don't go that way. Shows a lack of training for their CSRs, or procedures that are too open to interpretation.

[JLucPicard]

In case there's anyone reading anymore who cares, I've seen over time that there may be two levels of cancellation when it comes to DirecTV sports packages.

If you call to cancel a sports package and have no interest in subscribing to it again, may I suggest that you confirm not only that the subscription gets cancelled, but also make sure they cancel the auto-renew. You may call and cancel Sunday Ticket, but you'll want to make sure they also cancel the auto-renew so when the new season approaches you don't start getting charged for it again.

[guffy1]

In managing a CS organization back in my days of youth the cardinal rule that we saw when people ranted, complained or whined about anything that happened was that if they got what they want the service was great, if they did not the service sucked and was the worst in the world.

Good habit is to take ANY interwhine complaint about any customer service personnel is to remember you are only hearing one side of the issue and that side is made to look like the issue was reported 100 percent correctly on the caller side, you never know the true and correct report from both sides.

Well, whoever the company is that you were managing, I sure as hell hope I never have to do business with that company. What a juvenille and crap attitude for a company to take.

[MikeW]

I find it easiest to simply process all requests over the web. I've turned recievers off and on, cancelled NBA LP, moved and changed services without a phone call. You get an e-mail confirmation when the task is complete and it takes far less time than calling in.

[jodybo]

I'm not sure what I would have to gain by coming to this board and posting false information about my interaction with DirecTV. Apoligies to those who have endured any heartburn by the presence of this thread. I hope everyone has a good weekend, enjoy your programming because I won't have Uverse in place till next Friday.:(

Luckily I have a round of golf and even a trip to Talladega for the race lying in wait!

[hdtvfan0001]

I'm not sure what I would have to gain by coming to this board and posting false information about my interaction with DirecTV. Apoligies to those who have endured any heartburn by the presence of this thread. I hope everyone has a good weekend, enjoy your programming because I won't have Uverse in place till next Friday.:(

Luckily I have a round of golf and even a trip to Talladega for the race lying in wait!
Glad to hear things are improving for you, with the opportunity to overcome the initial problem.

Also...sounds like a wonderful weekend to look forward to...! :)

[bjlc]

sorry but over the years I have heard of countless posters here who "canceled Sunday Ticket" only to see it on their bill before the season..

this is an ongoing Directv problem and anyone who can't see that, one doesn't read the posts here.. or two.. is blindly loyal to directv.. and refuses to believe the posts or the posters..

[bonscott87]

Error number two: Losing your cool. The folks who kept transferring you were probably just following their script with no malice specifically directed to you. In this day of voice response systems, long holds to talk to the proper person, and that famous "sorry I can't do that" response it is hard to stay calm. But in order to get anywhere you MUST keep your cool. Many times when I end up in this situation (fortunately not with DirecTV so far) I shake it off and actually tell the next person in the chain what is happening without being upset. These people get connected to grumpy customers all day and a breath of fresh air will certainly motivate them to help you and not transfer you.


This cannot be understated. I've not had this experience with DirecTV but have with other things I've called about (Health Insurance and Cell phone most recently). I never lose my cool on the phone because 1) It only hurts me and 2) I used to work a help desk job many years ago and know what it's like to be on the other end.

So I'm always cheery (as much as I can be) and don't get upset by little things (like my computer is slow or can I put you on hold). The past two sticky issues I've been on the phone with a CSR (again, not DirecTV) both times I got a sigh of relief from the gal on the other end and thanked for not chewing her a new one. "I get yelled at all day and I really appreciate your patience and being so nice". I usually comment that they can relax and take a break with me. And I almost always end of with some extra goodie for being nice. Yep, you can get more things with honey then vinegar. :) I certainly know when someone yelled at me on the phone I did what I could to get that person off the phone as quickly as possible or passed off to someone else. I'm not taking that cr@p. :D

Personally if what happened to the OP happened to me I would have just asked for retention and resolved the issue. Most likely they would have seen what was up (they have the power the brains in retention) and would have just canceled it or probably just gotten some kind of credit to offset most of the cost of NBA LP. Can I guarantee that? No. But in my experience with retention if you have been nice along the way getting to them, a good customer and your issues logically makes sense they will make it right. Doesn't mean they will every time of course, but the odds are with you.

[dreadlk]

Error number one: Having your wife call DirecTV. You cannot verify what took place during that conversation including the statement from one of the CSR's that she said she was going to call back. Why would a CSR come up with that if it wasn't true?...

You have got to be Kidding!!

I don't know about you but I trust my Wife's word over what a CSR has to say 1 million times over! If she says that she did something I believe her, end of story. Jeez you would believe a CSR's word over what your wife says :rolleyes:

[HoTat2]

I'm not sure what I would have to gain by coming to this board and posting false information about my interaction with DirecTV. Apoligies to those who have endured any heartburn by the presence of this thread. I hope everyone has a good weekend, enjoy your programming because I won't have Uverse in place till next Friday.:(

Luckily I have a round of golf and even a trip to Talladega for the race lying in wait!

Glad to hear things are improving for you, with the opportunity to overcome the initial problem.

Also...sounds like a wonderful weekend to look forward to...! :)

+1 here;

And I personally do not accuse you of posting false information. I truly believe you are stating the truth as far as your knowledge of the facts. But there is still nevertheless the possibility your wife accidently dropped the ball on this by not clearly issuing a cancellation on the said date, even though I imagine in her sincere recollection she may have thought she did. Then to terminate service with DirecTV I felt is an overreaction.

Anyhow though, it's all academic now so have a very nice weekend to you and yours, and the best of luck with U-verse.

U-verse is not available in my area yet, and the reports of poor HD PQ with the limitation of only allowing 2 HD recording streams at any one time is a complete no go for my situation anyway.

Actually I envy you in some ways being able to pack up so easily and switch to another service provider like that, since with my set-up here of six DVRs and the highest channel package and no FiOS or U-verse available and with TWC both more expensive and has a four box limit per household, DirecTV is the only realistic choice for me and I'm really in no position to get angry with them and leave. :sure:

[ATARI]

In case there's anyone reading anymore who cares, I've seen over time that there may be two levels of cancellation when it comes to DirecTV sports packages.

If you call to cancel a sports package and have no interest in subscribing to it again, may I suggest that you confirm not only that the subscription gets cancelled, but also make sure they cancel the auto-renew. You may call and cancel Sunday Ticket, but you'll want to make sure they also cancel the auto-renew so when the new season approaches you don't start getting charged for it again.

So it wasn't just me who this has happened to.

[tuff bob]

I know I've called in multiple times to have the same auto-renew sports sub disabled, fortunately for me I was able to get it done before the season started and I got charged. In my case they told me the first cancellation didn't register because the previous season had just finished and the sports package wasn't in the system. :confused:

[Knowledge]

Per D* policy Sports subscriptions can't be canceled, transferred, refunded, or credited after the season starts. You are also notified of autorenew before billing starts through one or more of the following: bill statement messages for paper and electronic bills, e-mail, direct mail, and automated outbound calls to give you a month to call and cancel w/o any issue. Lesson here: "It pays to look at your bill."

[RACJ2]

Error number one: Having your wife call DirecTV. You cannot verify what took place during that conversation including the statement from one of the CSR's that she said she was going to call back. Why would a CSR come up with that if it wasn't true?

You have got to be Kidding!!

I don't know about you but I trust my Wife's word over what a CSR has to say 1 million times over! If she says that she did something I believe her, end of story. Jeez you would believe a CSR's word over what your wife says :rolleyes:Dreadlk, I agree with you on that one. ThomasM, are you by chance single? If not, maybe you married the wrong person? I think the CSR put "going to call back" in the notes, because they didn't want to take the hit. And that gives them an excuse for not canceling it.

[evilquik]

What else is there to say?

He over-reacted, and bit off his nose to spite his face. Now, he wants contact info for someone at D* - That was the point of the thread. He received that info. Case closed.

Now, we can go on for 5 more days with some of us saying he over-reacted and others saying D* sucks and the rest of us are fanboys, etc., etc.

But in the end, what will have changed? He'll still be a former D* subscriber, he'll still have the Email address he came here hoping to find and we'll all still have our same opinions.

There's not one thing that can be added to this thread. To me, that's a dead thread.

Not True friend, I have something I can add to this thread.

What about the fact that DTV is doing a free preview of the NBA Package the first week for ALL subscribers. Even more reason for them to cancel this mans NBA package. DTV can be very foolish at times.

[Knowledge]

Dreadlk, I agree with you on that one. ThomasM, are you by chance single? If not, maybe you married the wrong person? I think the CSR put "going to call back" in the notes, because they didn't want to take the hit. And that gives them an excuse for not canceling it.

CSR's do not "take a hit" nor do they benefit from retaining a sport subscription package. Only if there is not an attempt to retain is there an issue. :D

[RACJ2]

CSR's do not "take a hit" nor do they benifit from retaining a sport subscription package. Only if there is not an attempt to retain is there an issue. :DInteresting, so how do they know if you made an attempt to retain? If someone cancels, does the CSR get questioned about it?

[Knowledge]

Interesting, so how do they know if you made an attempt to retain? If someone cancels, does the CSR get questioned about it?
Spot checking By Quality Assurance.

[rudeney]

This is just another symptom of a problem D* has created for themselves, yet could easily solve. The problem is that everything they do is via verbal agreements, yet there is never any sort of physical confirmation. Any discrepancies arising from the verbal conversations always come down to finger pointing between the customers and the CSR's. The simple solution is that they need a confirmation system for all verbal transactions. This could be as simple as providing the customer with a confirmation number that references the database entries in their records where the transaction applied. Better yet, just get the customer's e-mail address and follow up with an automated message. Verizon Wireless does this with any change I make to my service and I really appreciate that. It clearly shows changes in price, commitment, or recurring fees. I hate to keep harping on how D* needs to be more like the cellular providers, but I think this is an area where they could take a lesson.

[RACJ2]

This is just another symptom of a problem D* has created for themselves, yet could easily solve. The problem is that everything they do is via verbal agreements, yet there is never any sort of physical confirmation. Any discrepancies arising from the verbal conversations always come down to finger pointing between the customers and the CSR's. The simple solution is that they need a confirmation system for all verbal transactions. This could be as simple as providing the customer with a confirmation number that references the database entries in their records where the transaction applied. Better yet, just get the customer's e-mail address and follow up with an automated message. Verizon Wireless does this with any change I make to my service and I really appreciate that. It clearly shows changes in price, commitment, or recurring fees. I hate to keep harping on how D* needs to be more like the cellular providers, but I think this is an area where they could take a lesson.I agree, especially if the email contained the notes that the CSR entered.

[RACJ2]

Spot checking By Quality Assurance.So how exactly do they spot check, do they read the CSR notes?

[coldsteel]

So how exactly do they spot check, do they read the CSR notes?

Even better. QA pulls a logfile/recording of the entire conversation, including a video capture of the agent's computer screen, then plays it back in it's entirety.

[BKC]

I'm not sure what I would have to gain by coming to this board and posting false information about my interaction with DirecTV. Apoligies to those who have endured any heartburn by the presence of this thread. I hope everyone has a good weekend, enjoy your programming because I won't have Uverse in place till next Friday.:(

Luckily I have a round of golf and even a trip to Talladega for the race lying in wait!

Don't sit too close to the fence on the last lap. :D

[Knowledge]

Even better. QA pulls a logfile/recording of the entire conversation, including a video capture of the agent's computer screen, then plays it back in it's entirety.

I too am guessing this is how it's done. ;)

[rudeney]

Even better. QA pulls a logfile/recording of the entire conversation, including a video capture of the agent's computer screen, then plays it back in it's entirety.

If that's true, then do they actually go back and fix what the CSR screwed up?

[wingrider01]

Well, whoever the company is that you were managing, I sure as hell hope I never have to do business with that company. What a juvenille and crap attitude for a company to take.

truth hurts doesn't it?

The old falacy of the "customer is always right" is just that a fallacy. Sorry the juvenille and crap attitude is mainly on the customer side who do not get that they think they deserve, 95 percent of the calls that where directed to the QA department for review by "injured and upset users" turned out to be the "customer" cussing out the rep when they said "sorry, but we cannot do that", you see we recorded 100 percent of the calls and not only did a QA spot review every week, but also escalated and documented the "interwhine" calls when a complaint was filed.

As mentiond, the only thing you see on a interwhine CS complaint is the "injured parties" side, and that is pitched to prove they are the injured party, the reader will never know the true stiroy.

[dodge boy]

The problem is that everything they do is via verbal agreements, yet there is never any sort of physical confirmation.

Just like the government they record all phone conversations..... :lol:

[Impala1ss]

There are really only 2 issues discussed in this thread.

1 - the OP had a problem which he felt was the fault of D* and he cancelled. Who knows if everything he said was 100% factual. Who cares. He felt it was, and displayed his displeasure at the circumstances.

2- The Fanboys, Interweb Nazi police, those who feel D* can do no wrong (and never has), the just be thankful for what we have, etc. These posters feel they have the unencumbered right to tell posters to stop posting because they don't know what they are speaking of; to tell moderators to close threads; to decide when discussion should be ended, etc., etc., etc.

These semi-dictators feel they have the right to deny a person the right to explain their positions, and others to discuss it.

I read the original post and my feeling was this comes under the "s**t happens" catagory. Bad things happen to ggod people. I KNOW that there are two sides to every story but when condescension happens, it is rude, illogical, and a type of bullying tactic.

If you do not agree with an OP, and KNOW he is wrong, then present your position. If you THINK he is wrong, do not insult him, and the rest of us with your attempt to control the converstaion.

I only rebel against the bullies.

[wingrider01]

There are really only 2 issues discussed in this thread.

1 - the OP had a problem which he felt was the fault of D* and he cancelled. Who knows if everything he said was 100% factual. Who cares. He felt it was, and displayed his displeasure at the circumstances.

2- The Fanboys, Interweb Nazi police, those who feel D* can do no wrong (and never has), the just be thankful for what we have, etc. These posters feel they have the unencumbered right to tell posters to stop posting because they don't know what they are speaking of; to tell moderators to close threads; to decide when discussion should be ended, etc., etc., etc.

These semi-dictators feel they have the right to deny a person the right to explain their positions, and others to discuss it.

I read the original post and my feeling was this comes under the "s**t happens" catagory. Bad things happen to ggod people. I KNOW that there are two sides to every story but when condescension happens, it is rude, illogical, and a type of bullying tactic.

If you do not agree with an OP, and KNOW he is wrong, then present your position. If you THINK he is wrong, do not insult him, and the rest of us with your attempt to control the converstaion.

I only rebel against the bullies.

You missed one - posters like yourself who reference a issue that should never be equated to any trivial interwhine discussion.

You have no idea what the truth of the original post is, you are only seeing 1/2 of the discussion and that it is just as valid to say that the end user was at fault as the company because you havexaclty NO idea what actually occurred.

[hdtvfan0001]

You missed one - posters like yourself who reference a issue that should never be equated to any trivial interwhine discussion.

You have no idea what the truth of the original post is, you are only seeing 1/2 of the discussion and that it is just as valid to say that the end user was at fault as the company because you havexaclty NO idea what actually occurred.
Which prompts the question...is there anything else possible to add here (that hasn't already been said) before we see this thread shut down?

[Knowledge]

2- The Fanboys, Interweb Nazi police, those who feel D* can do no wrong (and never has), the just be thankful for what we have, etc. These posters feel they have the unencumbered right to tell posters to stop posting because they don't know what they are speaking of; to tell moderators to close threads; to decide when discussion should be ended, etc., etc., etc.

These semi-dictators feel they have the right to deny a person the right to explain their positions, and others to discuss it.

II only rebel against the bullies.

Pack your bags Fanboys! Your going on a guilt trip! :lol:

[wingrider01]

Which prompts the question...is there anything else possible to add here (that hasn't already been said) before we see this thread shut down?

Nothing worthwhile, it should be terminated

[RACJ2]

I too am guessing this is how it's done. ;)So do you have inside "Knowledge" or are you guessing? Can't close this thread yet!

[Doug Brott]

Seems this thread has degenerated into a bunch of name calling and attacks .. I think it's time to move on.

Feel free to start a new thread as it applies.