Microsoft Office 2010 Open Beta

[ncxcstud]

Just so y'all know, the open beta for Microsoft Office 2010 is now up...

get it here...

http://www.microsoft.com/office/2010/en/default.aspx

[Stuart Sweet]

I've heard reports already that the download sites are overloaded...

[Fontano]

Here is a release IDEA for Microsoft:

How about either:

1) Charge $50 a copy of Office
2) Charge $150 for a family upgrade for Office (3 license)
3) Or simply set the price at something reasonable so I can get most of my systems off the XP version (I have 4 copies of 2003, and only one 2007)

Still going to download the BETA and work with it.

[Stuart Sweet]

Even better... come up with a meaningful upgrade. I use MS Office, have since 1988 (when it was DOS-based) but the last upgrade that brought any real improvement to the way I use it was Word for Windows95.

People pooh-pooh Works but it really is all you need for about $40. OpenOffice looks a lot like Office98 and it's free.

I've heard there will be a starter edition of Office2010 but it will be laden with ads.

[hdtvfan0001]

I went through the painful transition to Office 2007 on all units....having to relearn all the menus, commands...and more important finding things....I still can't locate some of the more things I use with regularity without having to hunt them down from time to time.

Intuitive...hardly....our IT department tells me its the #1 complaint...its NOT intuitive...at least not for a number of common functions.

Already took a peak at the 2010 version....nice additions for the "artsy fartsy" graphical stuff....but they really need to work on getting the top 50 most commonly-used icon and menu options be accessible, without having to go on Safari like in Office 2007.

Hopefully they learned some things like the differences between Vista and WIN7 along those lines...

[Marlin Guy]

I went through the painful transition to Office 2007 on all units....having to relearn all the menus, commands...and more important finding things....I still can't locate some of the more things I use with regularity without having to hunt them down from time to time.



This, young Jedi, is the Microsoft way. :lol:
http://www.openoffice.org/

[hdtvfan0001]

This, young Jedi, is the Microsoft way. :lol:
http://www.openoffice.org/
Ain't gonna happen here....we are a full Microsoft shop for work, and I'm not learning 2 full sets of different software. :nono2::eek2:;):D

[Fontano]

It took me a good 3 or 4 months to get used to 2007, but now that I am, I have a hard time going back to older versions.

OpenOffice is what I put on my netbook and computers that just need to be able to read and do very basic stuff. As much as they have tried, it just isn't a full replacement for MS Office.

[naijai]

I went through the 2007 upgrade and i still don't see the reason for the ribbon menu i am used to it now so i'll be installing this either tonite or tomorrow. I already have the mobile version installed on my Touch Pro 2 and seems & looks like the previous version

[Steve]

People pooh-pooh Works but it really is all you need for about $40. OpenOffice looks a lot like Office98 and it's free. I agree about Works.

Another free word processing, spreadsheet and presentation suite is available from IBM. Lotus Symphony (http://www-01.ibm.com/software/lotus/products/symphony/) can open and edit Office docs, store everything in ODF and export PDF's, if desired. If I were heading up application support for a major US company, I'd definitely be taking a hard look at Symphony or OpenOffice before renewing Microsoft seat licenses.

[Greg Alsobrook]

As much as they have tried, it just isn't a full replacement for MS Office.

Agreed. When it comes to docs and spreadsheets, Microsoft Office is the standard... and you risk compatibility issues when you try to substitute with Open Office.

[ffemtreed]

I love office 2007, that is of course after a month or so of barking and complaining about it. I have office 2010 installed since yesterday and it seems good. Not a lot different just some new features. Everything seems to be where it is in Office 2007.

PS-- For those of you who work in the corporate world and are a Microsoft shop, have your I.T. dept check into the employee home use program. It is included free with most license agreements from Microsoft. Basically your IT dept will give you a link and a code to order a copy of office for like 8 or 10 dollars.

[LarryFlowers]

Couple of things about Office 2010 Beta 2

1. You can not install the 64 bit version on a machine with Office 2007, you must uninstall Office 2007 first as there is no Office 2007 64 bit.
2. Office 2010 is the first version available in 64 bit.
3. Office 2010 Beta 2 is 99.9% "Feature Complete". This not normally the case at this point in development.
4. There are MANY changes in Outlook... you will probably like them once you see how they work.. Outlook is playing catch-up.

[Marlin Guy]

When does it brick out on you?

[barryb]

Downloading right now. ;)

[JM Anthony]

I miss Word Star.

I still think Office 2007 doesn't pack much bang for the buck, at least not for most mainstream users. Now that I'm retired and not using it on a daily basis, it's painful to sit down and gin up a document in Word.

John

[tralfaz]

Is there a charge for the beta? Will there eventually be a charge if you're using the beta?

[itguy05]

Agreed. When it comes to docs and spreadsheets, Microsoft Office is the standard... and you risk compatibility issues when you try to substitute with Open Office.

Not really. Used OpenOffice for years in a corporate setting and never heard once about compatibility.

OO 3.0 is very good. Combine that with Ubuntu and Vbox running VirtualBox for that one pesky app that needs Windows and I can to my entire job managing Windows from a Linux OS. In fact I do that some days. For 98% of users, OO is all they need. It's come a long way and is very Office 2003-like.

Don't get me started on the POS that is Office 2007. It's a usability mess with the ribbon and other crap that they did. It's a usability nightmare and if anyone but MS pulled that crap they would be bankrupt.

[The Merg]

I love office 2007, that is of course after a month or so of barking and complaining about it. I have office 2010 installed since yesterday and it seems good. Not a lot different just some new features. Everything seems to be where it is in Office 2007.

PS-- For those of you who work in the corporate world and are a Microsoft shop, have your I.T. dept check into the employee home use program. It is included free with most license agreements from Microsoft. Basically your IT dept will give you a link and a code to order a copy of office for like 8 or 10 dollars.

That's how I got my Office 2007 Enterprise edition. At the time it was $19.95 for the DVD and it arrived in about 3 days. Now it is $9.95 to download it and you can order a backup DVD for another $10. Can't beat that.

- Merg

[Stewart Vernon]

I think I made the guy at the Apple store mad when my sister was buying her iMac. Besides passing on most of the up-sells... I pointed out to him that OpenOffice was free and did everything I needed it to do so I didn't (and by association neither did my sister) need Office or the iWorks Apple solution anymore.

[ncxcstud]

Is there a charge for the beta? Will there eventually be a charge if you're using the beta?

No charge for the beta. And there won't be a charge for the BETA....when the program is officially released, their will be a charge for that (obviously). But, no charge for the beta...

After using it for a bit, I like it, but I liked the aesthetics of 2007 a bit more...

[Grentz]

The new route office is taking is different, and hard for past users, but I can say I have seen a LOT more advanced features being used by more common people since 2007 came out with its new interface. It is not the best for those of us that were trained and used to the older office versions, but with time we learn the new stuff and it is easier to do many things (if you dont believe me, check out the new table formating routines, or pivot tables). Overall though for normal users it has provided a much easier way to get to advanced functions and lets people use them more.

I curse sometimes trying to do something I could do easily on past versions, but then I remember how much harder it was to do many other things that are now just one or two clicks away and right there in open view or just redesigned for the better (like working with objects in word).

I have always liked office, I have used every version since Office 95, and will be getting 2010 when it comes out. Beta looks interesting, just need to find some time to check it out.

[HDJulie]

I installed the Beta on my second PC at work because I wanted to see how Outlook has changed. It's ok & I'd like to try it at home but from what I understand, the new Outlook uses a different "file format" for the pst files & that cannot be undone once done. Is that correct? I think Outlook 2003 did the same thing -- once you went to it, you could not go back to a previous version of Outlook with the same pst file?

[itguy05]

The new route office is taking is different, and hard for past users, but I can say I have seen a LOT more advanced features being used by more common people since 2007 came out with its new interface. It is not the best for those of us that were trained and used to the older office versions, but with time we learn the new stuff and it is easier to do many things (if you dont believe me, check out the new table formating routines, or pivot tables). Overall though for normal users it has provided a much easier way to get to advanced functions and lets people use them more.

I don't necessarily think that is true. At this point I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who is "new" to Office. And I can tell you from my experience even those casual users find Office 2007 very frustrating and annoying to use. It's because it looks like nothing they are used to and works like no other application.

Don't believe me? Open it up and try to figure out how to open a file. It's not in the File menu - there is none. It's not clock the disk - that's save. You have to somehow know to click the Office Orb and it's there. Same thing to print.

And don't get me started on the Ribbon - waste of screen real estate that at least in 2007 you can't customize, shrink, or do anything with.

MS has a decent (although not perfect) UI in the Office 2008 for the Mac. It's decently customizeable, blends the old and the new and can get out of your way if you want it to. Sadly the 2 teams don't talk.

4. There are MANY changes in Outlook... you will probably like them once you see how they work.. Outlook is playing catch-up.

About time! Outlook (and Exchange) have always been POS applications. Wonder if they've worked on the other POS - Access?

[ncxcstud]

I don't necessarily think that is true. At this point I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who is "new" to Office. And I can tell you from my experience even those casual users find Office 2007 very frustrating and annoying to use. It's because it looks like nothing they are used to and works like no other application.

Don't believe me? Open it up and try to figure out how to open a file. It's not in the File menu - there is none. It's not clock the disk - that's save. You have to somehow know to click the Office Orb and it's there. Same thing to print.

And don't get me started on the Ribbon - waste of screen real estate that at least in 2007 you can't customize, shrink, or do anything with.

MS has a decent (although not perfect) UI in the Office 2008 for the Mac. It's decently customizeable, blends the old and the new and can get out of your way if you want it to. Sadly the 2 teams don't talk.



About time! Outlook (and Exchange) have always been POS applications. Wonder if they've worked on the other POS - Access?

though it took an extra click or two....it is very easy to put the normal file links at the top of the window...

I think Grentz has it right though, most people find Office 2007 difficult for two reasons...it is a new GUI that they have to 'relearn' and the default file format is different from other versions of Office... (*.docx instead of *.doc).

I updated the computers here at the All Saints Lutheran Church with Office 2007 and told the Pastor... "Now, things are arranged a bit differently, but once you get past that, you'll realize that it is arranged more logically than before. Want to insert something? Click the insert tab and they are pretty much all right there... want to check the spelling and grammar? It is in review, etc..." It was frustrating for him at first, but now he'll ask me a question and he has usually figured it out by the time I walk the 20 feet from my office to his... and he'll usually say, "Wow....it really was right where I thought it would be..."

The ONLY thing I really was annoyed about with Office 2007 was the massive space that Word would put in between paragraphs when you pressed ENTER.... That seems to have been changed a bit. It still puts in a space, but it isn't the massive gap it was in 2007...

[Herdfan]

Here is a release IDEA for Microsoft:

How about either:

1) Charge $50 a copy of Office
2) Charge $150 for a family upgrade for Office (3 license)
3) Or simply set the price at something reasonable so I can get most of my systems off the XP version (I have 4 copies of 2003, and only one 2007)


Do you have a kid in school? Any school? The Student Edition is good for 3 computers and is $149. No Access or Publisher though.

[ncxcstud]

According to the Winsupersite.com only Professional Pro (redundant much?) will have Outlook 2010.... which is a bit weird since Outlook has essentially come with every form of Office that I remember...

Of course, Windows Mail is a very functional e-mail client (though I use Thunderbird).

[HDJulie]

Windows Mail doesn't come with Windows 7. So if Outlook is only included in the higher end versions of Office, it seems Microsoft wants to push their Windows Live Mail product, which is a piece of crap in my opinion. Or, people will use Thunderbird.

[ncxcstud]

Sorry, I just read the article again.... Outlook is included in all versions except for Starter and Student. My bad ;)

[barryb]

4. There are MANY changes in Outlook... you will probably like them once you see how they work.. Outlook is playing catch-up.

Many changes is an understatement Larry. First look gave me a huge grin. I love it! Did you notice a speed increase with Outlook? I sure did. Heck, I even sent a "smiley".

[HDJulie]

You can't go back once you go with the new Outlook, though, right? It changes the pst files so it is not possible to go back to Outlook 2007 once you go to 2010?

Edited: I just found this in a Technet article:

Reverting to Office 2007 from Office 2010
Because of the changes in Outlook 2010 that allow multiple Exchange e-mail accounts, user profiles that were upgraded to Outlook 2010 will not work if the user removes Outlook 2010, reinstalls Office Outlook 2007, and then attempts to start Office Outlook 2007 by using the same user profile. In this scenario, the user profile will have to be removed and re-created in Windows through the Control Panel and Mail options.

[LarryFlowers]

Many changes is an understatement Larry. First look gave me a huge grin. I love it! Did you notice a speed increase with Outlook? I sure did. Heck, I even sent a "smiley".

If you were to receive an email about a subject that you have exchanged other emails about, it will automatically organize those other emails directly under the one you just received.

[Movieman]

Couple of things about Office 2010 Beta 2

1. You can not install the 64 bit version on a machine with Office 2007, you must uninstall Office 2007 first as there is no Office 2007 64 bit.
2. Office 2010 is the first version available in 64 bit.
3. Office 2010 Beta 2 is 99.9% "Feature Complete". This not normally the case at this point in development.
4. There are MANY changes in Outlook... you will probably like them once you see how they work.. Outlook is playing catch-up.

If I do this what happens with the Excel and Work documents I have saved? Do they just sit there until I finish installing the new Office? I have MS Office 2007 and will be doing this upgrade tonight.

[HDJulie]

If I do this what happens with the Excel and Work documents I have saved? Do they just sit there until I finish installing the new Office? I have MS Office 2007 and will be doing this upgrade tonight.

Your documents should be saved in your Documents directory which would not be touched by the uninstall of Office 2007.

[harsh]

Agreed. When it comes to docs and spreadsheets, Microsoft Office is the standard... and you risk compatibility issues when you try to substitute with Open Office.You get to retain your Micro$oft FUD badge for another interval.

Regardless of what Microsoft says, Office 2007 brought great frustration and not much in the way of useful features. They took the same path as Autodesk did with AutoCAD and told everyone to "look at how much smaller the files are" because they zipped everything. It still takes forever to parse the data contained therein.

I recently worked with a respected computer consultant that spent an inordinate amount of time cursing Office and Access in particular for not being anything like the product we all remember. That, coupled with the fact that it often doesn't work right.

Microsoft clearly designs their products to appeal to a singular audience: their VARs and the Dummies series publishers. Their "paradigm shift" moves have been huge steps backwards by and large. The new file formats are an entirely annoying feature that only makes working with Office that much more difficult. Of course if they weren't the defaults, all the old third party applications would still work...

[LarryFlowers]

If I do this what happens with the Excel and Work documents I have saved? Do they just sit there until I finish installing the new Office? I have MS Office 2007 and will be doing this upgrade tonight.

Nothing, they are safe. Your documents should be nowhere near the progam files, unless you did something very strange... which in your case Larry, I doubt very seriously. By default all files created by Office programs are stored in your "my documents" folder unless you manually told it to store them elsewhere.

[Grentz]

You get to retain your Micro$oft FUD badge for another interval.

Regardless of what Microsoft says, Office 2007 brought great frustration and not much in the way of useful features. They took the same path as Autodesk did with AutoCAD and told everyone to "look at how much smaller the files are" because they zipped everything. It still takes forever to parse the data contained therein.

I recently worked with a respected computer consultant that spent an inordinate amount of time cursing Office and Access in particular for not being anything like the product we all remember. That, coupled with the fact that it often doesn't work right.

Microsoft clearly designs their products to appeal to a singular audience: their VARs and the Dummies series publishers. Their "paradigm shift" moves have been huge steps backwards by and large. The new file formats are an entirely annoying feature that only makes working with Office that much more difficult. Of course if they weren't the defaults, all the old third party applications would still work...

Just as an alternative view, I disagree with your statements. Office 2007 has been a step forward for most users and businesses that I work with.

Access has always been a POS anyways except for in the very beginning when it did not have good competitors, anyone who uses Access for anything too intensive really needs to look at alternatives. Access and Office are catch alls in general. They are decent at fitting into many different areas. There are almost always better database tools for specific companies needs though and specialized applications made for those needs.

This is not talking about excel and word obviously which really nothing comes close too. Except copy cats like open office. Still though, people tend to over use excel for things when better applications are out there to do certain tasks.

[itguy05]

Just as an alternative view, I disagree with your statements. Office 2007 has been a step forward for most users and businesses that I work with.

Interesting. Those that I know express great frustration at Office 2007. I'd hate to be in our desktop and customer service folks' shoes next year when they roll out Office 2007 AND Windows 7. Talk about a debacle....

This is not talking about excel and word obviously which really nothing comes close too. Except copy cats like open office. Still though, people tend to over use excel for things when better applications are out there to do certain tasks.

Word.... It's a horrible word processor (I'm always fighting it and I've been an Office user since 95). Doesn't work the way you think it would and styles are still wonky. Of all the WP's that I've used, Ami Pro from back in the day was the best. Great keyboard shortcuts (could assign F2-10 to styles), good page layout features, and decent performance. Word tries to be a page layout app and fails.

I've actually used both Word and Open Office and they are comparable. I actually have to FIX some docs in OO that Word won't format properly. When saved in .DOC they open fine in Word.

Excel is another story. It's decent at what it does and has a lot of data manipulation built in. It's great for analyzing data. I've used OO and it's calc app is good but is lacking in a few features that Excel shines at.

Outlook is a miserable POS. Always has been since the 1997 release. Buggy and the PST files are a nightmare to deal with. They should get with the time and use a MBOX format or something else that's easy to deal with. But that wouldn't fit the lock and tie-in that MS is famous for.

Access Horrible application beyond a basic database. They tried to make it do too much and it ends up doing nothing well. And then there's the horrible file format that likes to corrupt itself, especially when a department tries to use it. If I had $0.01 for every corrupt Access DB I've restored, I'd be a millionaire.

Infopath/One Note Only exist to lock and tie you into SharePOS (err, sharepoint).

PowerPoint OK but God, people over use it. And it's a simple app.

Office is the jack of all trades, master of none.

I would recommend you step out the MS box. Most likely you will see just how bad their software is. It's just that few step outside the box and just take it for what it is and think nothing is better.

[wilbur_the_goose]

Sharepoint really is a POS isn't it....

Makes me rue the day our corporate office in Europe made the USA business units dump Lotus Notes for SharePOS and Outlook.

[rudeney]

Do you have a kid in school? Any school? The Student Edition is good for 3 computers and is $149. No Access or Publisher though.

And Microsoft Partners can subscribe for $299/year and get licenses to pretty much "everything", including 10 license of Office, Windows, etc. And who is a "Partner"? Well, anyone can be a Partner! ;)

[rudeney]

Just as an alternative view, I disagree with your statements. Office 2007 has been a step forward for most users and businesses that I work with.

I have to agree. It's worth it just to get Excel's advanced data access and pivot table connections to OLAP cubes.

Access has always been a POS anyways except for in the very beginning when it did not have good competitors, anyone who uses Access for anything too intensive really needs to look at alternatives. Access and Office are catch alls in general. They are decent at fitting into many different areas. There are almost always better database tools for specific companies needs though and specialized applications made for those needs.

I still cannot understand how Access keeps hanging on. SQL Server Express and Visual Studio Express are both free and are about ten time more powerful than Access. It just amazes me that anyone these days would be using Access unless they have some old "legacy" apps running on it.

[harsh]

Office 2007 has been a step forward for most users and businesses that I work with.Of those that I recently polled who had seen (not necessarily exhaustively utilized) both familiar and new office, all agreed that familiar office was far and away a better tool because you didn't have to run around in circles trying to find a ribbon where you could do what you wanted to do. One person recalled a situation where it took two people almost an hour to figure out how to print a document.

Needless to say, I opted for an Office 2003 downgrade and everyone seems happy (except those who won't give up their typewriters because Office seems such a complicated and unfriendly option).

[ncxcstud]

Of those that I recently polled who had seen (not necessarily exhaustively utilized) both familiar and new office, all agreed that familiar office was far and away a better tool because you didn't have to run around in circles trying to find a ribbon where you could do what you wanted to do. One person recalled a situation where it took two people almost an hour to figure out how to print a document.

Needless to say, I opted for an Office 2003 downgrade and everyone seems happy (except those who won't give up their typewriters because Office seems such a complicated and unfriendly option).

Granted, each situation and person is different...but I think for the most part, people are afraid of change....which seems to definitely be the case in your situation harsh...

2 hours to print with 2 people? You're obviously not working/helping people with even basic knowledge of computers :). Of course, that seems like most businesses today anyways.

[itguy05]

Granted, each situation and person is different...but I think for the most part, people are afraid of change....which seems to definitely be the case in your situation harsh...

2 hours to print with 2 people? You're obviously not working/helping people with even basic knowledge of computers :). Of course, that seems like most businesses today anyways.

I don't think it's being afraid of change. Office 2007 is a HUGE paradigm shift. Every application has a file menu where you can open, save, print, and do other things. In Office 2007 you have to know to click the Orb thingy in the left. In every other application that does nothing with files.

I don't know how it could take anyone 2 hours to print, but Office 2007 is a usability nightmare for both the familiar and unfamiliar.

Think about what MS is saying.... Computers have worked this way since 1984 (with the introduction of the Mac) and now we're going to do something completely different. And there's no way to revert or modify it to make it work like you do (in O2007 you can't modify the ribbon). How is this progress?

It's the equivalent of waking up one morning and having us Americans drive on the left side of the road....

Sort of like the XP -> Win 7 upgrade. If I have to backup all my stuff and restore, learn a new OS, and possibly buy new applications, I may as well investigate Macs and Linux....

I'm no against progress when it makes sense but MS's recent direction in UI's makes no sense whatsoever.

[HDJulie]

What's interesting to me is that at work we have modeling software that the planners use to forecast load changes & growth & run probabilities & other engineering stuff that I don't understand. This software is produced by a third party & at their last user conference, they announced that the next version will adopt this same ribbon UI.

[harsh]

What's interesting to me is that at work we have modeling software that the planners use to forecast load changes & growth & run probabilities & other engineering stuff that I don't understand. This software is produced by a third party & at their last user conference, they announced that the next version will adopt this same ribbon UI.Check out their relationship with Microsoft in terms of their partnering level and support of Windows versions and you'll see a very tight coupling. Microsoft is pretty pushy when it comes to what tools and metaphors to use. They are very pushy about what platforms you support.

[Grentz]

Interesting. Those that I know express great frustration at Office 2007. I'd hate to be in our desktop and customer service folks' shoes next year when they roll out Office 2007 AND Windows 7. Talk about a debacle....



Word.... It's a horrible word processor (I'm always fighting it and I've been an Office user since 95). Doesn't work the way you think it would and styles are still wonky. Of all the WP's that I've used, Ami Pro from back in the day was the best. Great keyboard shortcuts (could assign F2-10 to styles), good page layout features, and decent performance. Word tries to be a page layout app and fails.

I've actually used both Word and Open Office and they are comparable. I actually have to FIX some docs in OO that Word won't format properly. When saved in .DOC they open fine in Word.

Excel is another story. It's decent at what it does and has a lot of data manipulation built in. It's great for analyzing data. I've used OO and it's calc app is good but is lacking in a few features that Excel shines at.

Outlook is a miserable POS. Always has been since the 1997 release. Buggy and the PST files are a nightmare to deal with. They should get with the time and use a MBOX format or something else that's easy to deal with. But that wouldn't fit the lock and tie-in that MS is famous for.

Access Horrible application beyond a basic database. They tried to make it do too much and it ends up doing nothing well. And then there's the horrible file format that likes to corrupt itself, especially when a department tries to use it. If I had $0.01 for every corrupt Access DB I've restored, I'd be a millionaire.

Infopath/One Note Only exist to lock and tie you into SharePOS (err, sharepoint).

PowerPoint OK but God, people over use it. And it's a simple app.

Office is the jack of all trades, master of none.

I would recommend you step out the MS box. Most likely you will see just how bad their software is. It's just that few step outside the box and just take it for what it is and think nothing is better.

Did you even read the rest of my post? That is exactly what I was trying to say "Office is the jack of all trades, master of none." The only exceptions, as I said, are Word and Excel which really dont have equals. I hate Outlook with a passion personally and have very little respect for Access.

"Access has always been a POS anyways except for in the very beginning when it did not have good competitors, anyone who uses Access for anything too intensive really needs to look at alternatives. Access and Office are catch alls in general. They are decent at fitting into many different areas. There are almost always better database tools for specific companies needs though and specialized applications made for those needs."

Overall MS Office is MADE to be a jack of all trades master of none, that is the whole point in many respects. There always is going to be specialized software that is better for niches.

[Mustang Dave]

Regarding the new ribbon having an uneditable fully populated toolbar is an improvement over previous version of Office programs. No more having to add a toolbar to even get to a feature or someone dragging their toolbars around and making a mess. After the initial learning curve of the new ribbon I have seen users become more self sufficient at finding what they are looking for.

[ncxcstud]

Regarding the new ribbon having an uneditable fully populated toolbar is an improvement over previous version of Office programs. No more having to add a toolbar to even get to a feature or someone dragging their toolbars around and making a mess. After the initial learning curve of the new ribbon I have seen users become more self sufficient at finding what they are looking for.

I've noticed it too Mustang Dave. At least that is what has happened with my supervising pastor at the church I'm at for this year...

[harsh]

I've found that people who aren't thinking about what they are doing don't respond well to dynamic menus (or anything else they can't subconsciously record keystrokes with). They expect things to be in certain locations on the screen and/or in the menus and if they aren't there, they exit the program and start from scratch.

Under the familiar menu system, if something isn't available, it is ghosted. Using the ribbon, the option is inexplicably missing altogether.

Regardless of what IT personnel think is best, most users don't think like process engineers. The just go through the same rote memory process and reset after each step. I've got one luser who believes that he must close Word to work with a different document (or revert on the current document) and any suggestion to the contrary is met with a stern lecture about what works for him and what doesn't.

Why should we have to fight to get people to use software?

[Movieman]

I just upgraded and its pretty nice.

[HDJulie]

Someone with Outlook 2010 can you please try something for me. Go to File & select Open. Click Import & from the list select Import from another program or file. Does it let you get past that point? I get the message Internal translation system error. I can select other items from Import but not that item.