Will D* or E* Ever Upgrade Locals to HiDef?

[Nick]

With more and more local broadcasters ramping up for HD or EHD, does anyone here think it likely that either US DBS provider will (ever) retransmit locals in Hi Def? Personally, I think it is very unlikely that this will happen within the usable future due to the huge bandwidth demands of uplinking HD from hundreds of locals.

To me, this is too bad, because unless FCC laws/regs are changed, most local affiliates will not likely ever grant waivers for DBS subs to receive network HD feeds directly via satellite.

AS far as CBS goes, I am not within range, nor in the DMA of a CBS O&O station and will likely never be. There has to be a solution for those of us who want to receive locals in HD.

[Scott Greczkowski]

I know both companies are working on a system to show your the broadcast networks shows in HD and would insert your local TV stations programs and commercials in when network HD was not airing.

That is good but it does not good if your local station is airing its own HDTV programming.

[marko]

I know both companies are working on a system to show your the broadcast networks shows in HD and would insert your local TV stations programs and commercials in when network HD was not airing.

That is good but it does not good if your local station is airing its own HDTV programming.

Which I imagine wouldn't be too much of a problem, unless you want news in HD, or in the future when locally shown sports broadcasts are in HD, but imagine that will be down the road quite a bit.

[Nick]

I thought of that, but inserting local SD spots in network HD programming for hundreds of stations sounds like it would be very complicated, unless there are triggers transmitted in the network feed for local inserts and the switching is automatic and seamless.

[Richard King]

Many of the television and radio ads are aired through automation. If you have an audio system with extended low frequency you may actually be able to hear the 25Hz tone used by some automation systems. I hear this quite clearly on a few channels, but each channel is different. Google popped this up to give you an idea of what is possible: http://www.hardata.com/snc.asp http://www.weststar.com/starguide.html

[Nick]

Interesting. Thanks for the education. Then it looks like uplinking national HD combined with local cut-away advertising is very do-able and would make 'everybody' happy, so to speak. :)

There is hope after all, but I may never get to see locals in HD, or any HD for that matter, due solely to the unanticipated high initial cost of getting into the game! Due to recent announcements, I'm now asking myself "Is it worth it, and can I afford it?" :(

[Jacob S]

If they can do it with HD in the future then they would be able to do it in analog (standard) definition for all the locals.

Getting all the locals in HD would probably be possible in the future without doing what is mentioned above but it would take a while for the technology to advance to allow that to happen.

Perhaps if you would have asked 5 or 6 years ago if broadcasting the locals in all the cities in the U.S. on a satellite system was possible it could be at least somewhat compared with looking at having all the HD local channels added now.

Perhaps if they broadcast in HD then they could shut the analog signal off saving that much more room for more HD channels when everything has to become digital anyways in the future.

[waydwolf]

Cutting local commercials into national network feed is totally irrellevant. Management of local stations pride themselves on being just that management of local stations.

Each local station handles its own economics and programming to a far greater degree than many people know or understand. They aren't going to be satisfied with a slightly modified national feed. They will want the local feed to be just that. Local.

When election time comes, and the news crews are all over to HD cameras, what will DBS do then? NONE of the local politicians will stand for their precious local camera time being eliminated by a pseudo-local format. It would create an instant firestorm were anyone to try it.

In point of fact, they DON'T have the bandwidth to carry all the locals in HD and cannot unless they launch a lot more birds. The FCC is highly unlikely to allow too much more open broadcast, never mind the international laws regarding orbital slots and spacing. MVDDS is coming and is likely to be much more favored by the government over satellite.

Cablevision's foray into DBS points the way E* and DTV need to be headed. Cable has a lot more bandwidth than DBS ever can and if E* and DTV continue running themselves as if cable is still stuck in 1978, they will suffer badly and eventually be rendered obsolete. Cross-usage of technologies, directing each where it is best suited is the future. If DBS doesn't adapt, it will be extinct, at least as it is presently existing.

[Jacob S]

Satellite may still be able to exist, but have to become a lot more competitive with their pricing if they are not going to offer the higher definitions. It would be an option for those that do not want to spend a lot on tv. That could be where satellite is headed in the future if they do not get enough bandwidth for lots of HD in the future or at least standard digital definition.

How much more would technologies such as MPEG-4 and up bring in the future?

[Mark Holtz]

The problem is that 8-11 standard channels can be squeezed onto one transponder, while a Hi-Def transmission takes up 2-3 channels onto a single transponder.

[Jacob S]

Once it gets 4-5 per transponder that should help a bit with space. The compression needs to be improved in the future. What was the compression of channels per transponder when Dish Network and DirecTv first started vs. now?

[bobjohnson]

I think this is a great idea, but it will only work durring PRIME TIME where the Major Network basically owns the time slot.

Durring prime time the Major networks could dictate (as the resign affliate contracts) that this is allowed durring prime time.

Durring prime time there are only a couple of local commercials anyway. They could break away for these.

The locals could also use the same high freq. tone to force a break away for urgent Storm Notifications or the very rare local programming durring Prime Time (I think they are alowed only so many hours as part of there affiliate contract).

[James Hill]

There seems to be a little bit of Chicken Little in some of these posts.

By the time local channels reach the point where they only broadcast in HD compression technology should reach the point where transponder space is only a minimal issue. Besides, cable is going to need advances in compression as much as satellite. It's still going to be coax between the main line and your house... or apartment... or apartment complex.

That being said, I have no hope for a smooth transition in the satellite world (outside of mapping network HD feeds over SD locals). For example, there's no possible way for E* to do 90% of locals (their goal) in both SD and HD at the same time. It's going to be you get one, or you get the other.

James Hill

[Jacob S]

I agree with James Hill. This is why I am trying to compare compression from when the satellite companies first came out vs. now and you can see a progression and over time it would be more and more possible to do. Also I doubt there would be both HD and standard definition channels at the same time. Maybe they would make those in the bigger markets get HD and work their way up replacing the standard defintion with HD until all of the markets have it.