View Full Version : Freezing Rain With Directv
Hi, I was just wondering if freezing rain effects directv a lot. I got directv back a few months ago, well last night we had some freezing rain for a few hours, and it made the signal go out, and it was out for awhile. Is this normal? Thanks for any responses.
bonscott87
12-09-09, 09:15 AM
If enough ice gets on the LNB or on the dish itself it can block the signal. Supersoaker and warm water will take care of that pretty quickly.
What is the best way to keep the dish clean, is there anyway? So this is normal with directv?
I was originally from WNY, so I can understand your concern. They make dish heaters that might help, but I have no experience with them. Here is one that Solid Signal sells: [Link (http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=02&p=HSSLNGRFKIT&d=Perfect-Vision-Hotshot-Satellite-Antenna-Heating-Element--28-x-20-Inch-for-DIRECTVs-Slim-Line-AU9-AT9-DTV66E-.74-Raven-and-Prodelin-Dish-%28HSSLNGRFKIT%29&c=Satellite%20Components&sku=)] and some additional pctures at this [Link (http://manuals.solidsignal.com/hotshot_Manual.pdf)]. Maybe someone has one and can provide some feedback?
erosroadie
12-09-09, 09:36 AM
What is the best way to keep the dish clean, is there anyway? So this is normal with directv?
I have heard that PAM works well on the dish (NOT on the LNB). Should have used it this weekend, as I had to scrap ~2 inches of wet snow off the dish this morning before it drops to ~0°F tonight...:eek2:
bonscott87
12-09-09, 10:06 AM
What is the best way to keep the dish clean, is there anyway? So this is normal with directv?
Any satellite delivered service will have issues with ice and snow, DirecTV is no exception. If you live in an area that gets frequent winter weather then I'd suggest your dish be on a pole in the backyard where you can get to it. Other then that, like I said, a $20 Supersoaker and warm water will clear anything off your dish on the roof.
Having said that, I live in Michigan (blizzard going on right now thru Friday) and I haven't lost signal yet. In all the years I've lived here with DirecTV (13+) I've only lost signal twice to ice, we're talking half inch plus ice storm. Glass of water and warm water takes care of that quickly. I only lose signal with snow if it's the heavy wet stuff. Had a storm last year were we got over 2 feet of snow and never lost any signal.
Also helps if your dish is properly aligned to start out with. It will take a lot more before going out.
directv is back in now, but the signal is not as high as it was before? Also do you think my dish is not properly aligned or just the weather effecting, it has worked good up until this freezing rain.
SPACEMAKER
12-09-09, 10:43 AM
Does Rain-X work as far as keeping the dishes ice and snow free?
rotohead
12-09-09, 01:10 PM
I've been using a heater on the back side of my 5lnb dish with a heat strip also on the lnb arm for a couple years now. I get lots of snow in the Lake Tahoe area. They work OK for light snow falls but if it's snowing more than 1" a hour the heater can't keep up and will acumulate snow until it stops snowing. I'm in a wheelchair so it's a pain to deal with this in the winter. The next time I have D* service my dish for any reason I'm going to add another heating element to the face of the dish (this one will be a larger 24" element. The one on the back is only 18").
hilmar2k
12-09-09, 01:34 PM
So much depends on the individual install location. I live 75 miles north of NYC, and get lots of snow, sleet, freezing rain, etc. Other than the very occasional outage from severe snowfall (lasting only a few minutes), I never have any issues with snow building up on my dish (knocking on wood with all available appendages). The way my house faces and where the dish is on my house must create some sort of wind tunnel that keeps my dish clear from snow, as not once have I ever had to clean it off.
dhkinil
12-09-09, 01:46 PM
I have my dish mounted under an upstairs bedroom window. I remove the screen every fall and when snow build up causes picture loss I use a 5 gallon bucket of warm water and pour it on the dish, never the lnb. The "hood" over the lnb should prevent ice buildup.
BattleZone
12-09-09, 02:07 PM
As others have suggested, every install is different, but if you find that your install ends up with snow or ice build up on the dish on any kind of a regular basis, then a dish heater is the only real answer.
Do NOT apply ANY chemicals to the dish. Any affect against snow and ice will be limited at best, but those chemicals can cause other problems. Please, don't do it. If warm water isn't enough, or you can't get to your dish, you need a dish heater
They come with a thermostat so they can be connected continuously, and will only run when needed. Get the right size for your dish and you'll minimize or eliminate outages.
ThomasM
12-09-09, 06:14 PM
After subscribing to DirecTV in Wisconsin for nine years now, I've seen the effect of just about any type of weather! ;)
Snow as a rule doesn't cause the signal to drop to the point of the "searching for signal" message but ice & heavy rain sure do. In the case of heavy rain, I mean HEAVY rain-the type where you get soaked if you are out in it for 30 seconds. Ice needs to build up quite a bit.
Remember, of course, I only have SD service which means my experiences have been with the Ku band (12Ghz) satellite signals. The Ka band satellites used for HD programming are much more susceptible to rain/ice/snow problems.
jdspencer
12-09-09, 06:37 PM
I lost signal for almost 30 minutes this morning. Not because of snow on the dish, but because of the size of the storm that came through the NE.
BWELL316
12-09-09, 07:58 PM
About 2 weeks ago I finally called D*TV to have someone realign my dish, knowing winter was on it's way. The installer was excellent, replaced the multi-switch, all of the connectors, attached a placeholder to the dish so it wouldn't move, reinstalled a a different line to my DVR, and re-pointed my dish. HD Signals went from 40's-low 60''s to 80's-90's. With all of the snow and freezing rain we had today, I did not lose signal once. I also have a stick to knock off heavy wet snow that I made from a swim noodle attached to a broom handle, and it manages to get most of the snow off. (I should mention I had the protection plan)
I usually don't have too much issue in the winter, and I live in MN.
We get plenty of snow, but it never accumulates much on the dish. Snow storms also don't seem to effect the signal too much unless they are VERY large. We just had this blizzard come through yesterday and I didn't see it search for signal once.
Now heavy rain definitely can cut out the signal, but still it usually is very short lived for me. I have never had issues with ice on the dish in almost 14yrs of living here. But we don't get a ton of freezing rain.
BattleZone
12-09-09, 10:57 PM
Remember that there are lots of factors that determine if your dish is likely to be affected. Example: if your roof line blocks your dish from the wind, it might reduce the buildup of snow. On the other hand, it might also prevent the wind from blowing the built-up snow off the dish. Different wind patterns and dish locations can cause two houses right next to each other to have very different experiences with signal.
One of the worst dish icing problems I've ever seen was a dish mounted on a wall right below the corner of a rain gutter. The gutter had a leak, and freezing cold water dripped right down off the gutter onto the dish and froze almost instantly. There was several inches of solid, clear ice on the dish, and zero signal. Ultimately, the dish had to be moved a couple of feet to the left, and icing was virtually eliminated.
Well, there's always this!
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y205/Talosfour/snowball-launcher.jpg
BubblePuppy
12-10-09, 10:37 AM
While I was living in Portland OR, my dish got covered with ice and snow...didn't affect (not effect) the signal one bit.
I've been using a heater on the back side of my 5lnb dish with a heat strip also on the lnb arm for a couple years now. I get lots of snow in the Lake Tahoe area. They work OK for light snow falls but if it's snowing more than 1" a hour the heater can't keep up and will acumulate snow until it stops snowing. I'm in a wheelchair so it's a pain to deal with this in the winter. The next time I have D* service my dish for any reason I'm going to add another heating element to the face of the dish (this one will be a larger 24" element. The one on the back is only 18").
Do NOT put a heat strip on the FRONT of the dish. It will (essentially) deform the dish and reduce its gain dramatically. For a dish to function properly (maintain its gain and sidelobe minimums) it must be true within .01 to .1 wavelength. Nothing that disturbs the "trueness" of the dish (front) should ever be put on that dish. The wires in the heating element are problematic. The dielectric constant of dry snow is usually not too much of a problem (except in really large accumulations that are wet).
In your case, just add a couple more heating elements to the back of the dish. There's not much you can do about accumulation on the feedhorns (LNBs) themselves. I have snow on both my dishes at the moment and there is no signal problem at all. When it gets to be several inches, I take out the broom and brush them off. (I realize this isn't an option for you).
David MacLeod
12-11-09, 11:16 AM
new heaters use elements on front side don't they?
http://www.satpro.tv/slimlinehotshotdishheater.aspx
pic sure looks like it does.
new heaters use elements on front side don't they?
http://www.satpro.tv/slimlinehotshotdishheater.aspx
pic sure looks like it does.
They are a bad idea. Any antenna engineering text has the gain degradation curves for dish irregularites...it's not a pretty picture. Of course, if you had enough fade margin in the first place, you might be able to tolerate it.:)
David MacLeod
12-11-09, 01:11 PM
they speak about aligning against the mount holes so I wonder if they have studied and found area not likely to cause issue.
this was hotshot, supposed to be good, but I have no personal experience.
rotohead
12-11-09, 04:24 PM
Do NOT put a heat strip on the FRONT of the dish. It will (essentially) deform the dish and reduce its gain dramatically. For a dish to function properly (maintain its gain and sidelobe minimums) it must be true within .01 to .1 wavelength. Nothing that disturbs the "trueness" of the dish (front) should ever be put on that dish. The wires in the heating element are problematic. The dielectric constant of dry snow is usually not too much of a problem (except in really large accumulations that are wet).
In your case, just add a couple more heating elements to the back of the dish. There's not much you can do about accumulation on the feedhorns (LNBs) themselves. I have snow on both my dishes at the moment and there is no signal problem at all. When it gets to be several inches, I take out the broom and brush them off. (I realize this isn't an option for you).
So I assme you disagree with the Hot Shot heater's designers (they recommend face mounting on the slimline Hot Shot heater). When I was troubleshooting the possibility that my heater wasn't working properly I had a friend climb a ladder and put his hand on the heating element to see if it was working. He claimed that it was but heat level wasn't anything he couldn't keep his hand on for extended period of time but was warm enough to melt snow. If that amount of heat would cause trouble and 'distort' the face of the dish enough to cause mis-alignment than I can't imagine the distortion that occurs on dish faces located in places like AZ or other hot weather locations. Not my field of expertise but I would be willing to try it out (mounting a heating element on the face vs. on the back) and see what happens. Maybe having two dishes mounted and switch between the two (alittle over the top cost wise I know but I'm sure I could find a cheap dish on ebay).
BattleZone
12-11-09, 04:50 PM
new heaters use elements on front side don't they?
http://www.satpro.tv/slimlinehotshotdishheater.aspx
pic sure looks like it does.
That first picture is just to show you the profile of the heater. The heater element is designed and intended to be installed on the rear, as the second picture shows. You remove the 4 bolts that hold the reflector in place, apply the heater, and rebolt the reflector.
Installing the heating element on the front of the reflector would absolutely interfere with signal strength, and should not be done.
David MacLeod
12-11-09, 04:57 PM
That first picture is just to show you the profile of the heater. The heater element is designed and intended to be installed on the rear, as the second picture shows. You remove the 4 bolts that hold the reflector in place, apply the heater, and rebolt the reflector.
Installing the heating element on the front of the reflector would absolutely interfere with signal strength, and should not be done.
ok, thanks. I've never seen one in person. I thought it was odd but.....
rotohead
12-11-09, 05:16 PM
That first picture is just to show you the profile of the heater. The heater element is designed and intended to be installed on the rear, as the second picture shows. You remove the 4 bolts that hold the reflector in place, apply the heater, and rebolt the reflector.
Installing the heating element on the front of the reflector would absolutely interfere with signal strength, and should not be done.
If you look at this link http://manuals.solidsignal.com/hotshot_Manual.pdf
it clearly states 'can be mounted on front or back' for the HSSLNGRFKIT heating element only. I've talked to the company in MT that sells them, talked to three different D* techs and talked to a independent contractor/installer and all have said it would not interfere with signal. Guess you'd just have to try it and see.
Tim Godsil
12-11-09, 06:24 PM
Freezing rain is just any other rain and will cause rain fade.
I tried using pam and it just leaves a goobery mess as it has food aditives in it beside oil.
Heat tape works good and it will not harm your dish. It takes heat in excess of 300 degrees to warp thin steel, the heat tape doesnt get anywhere near that hot.
Rainx/Pam/ etc do not work.
What you need to do is get a really thing garbage bag, a black one to asorb heat. Place that over the dish and the wind and or tapping on it with a length of pole will knock it off.
If you dont like the sight of it, use a clear one.
rotohead
12-11-09, 07:28 PM
And for the benefit of those that say (and I'm envious of your situation) 'snow never interferes with my signal'...I need to take a picture of the next snow storm that comes through the Sierras and show how my eve mounted dish can get engulfed. Like a earlier poster stated it's location and temp and so many other factors. If I lived in Rock Springs, WY in the winter and have 40 mph winds everyday I'd be more worried about loosing the dish altogether.
garn9173
12-11-09, 09:17 PM
Having said that, I live in Michigan (blizzard going on right now thru Friday) and I haven't lost signal yet. In all the years I've lived here with DirecTV (13+) I've only lost signal twice to ice, we're talking half inch plus ice storm. Glass of water and warm water takes care of that quickly. I only lose signal with snow if it's the heavy wet stuff. Had a storm last year were we got over 2 feet of snow and never lost any signal.
Off topic, but I never had signal issues with DirecTV during this week's blizzard.
hilmar2k
12-11-09, 09:21 PM
Off topic, but I never had signal issues with DirecTV during this week's blizzard.
That seems pretty on topic.....
lwilli201
12-11-09, 09:32 PM
I do not worry about ice on the dish and ice storms. I worry about an electric outage. Ice storms play havoc on the electical distribution system in my area. We had an ice storm a few years ago and lost power for 3 days, and I was one of the lucky ones. My dish is pole mounted and easy to keep clean and tweak if necessary.
I never lost the DirecTV with this kind of ice:
20400
20401
20402
20403
That is until a big metal transmission tower from the power plant into town went down and shut off my power for 3 days. :lol:
pldepot
12-15-09, 01:10 PM
If you look at this link http://manuals.solidsignal.com/hotshot_Manual.pdf
it clearly states 'can be mounted on front or back' for the HSSLNGRFKIT heating element only. I've talked to the company in MT that sells them, talked to three different D* techs and talked to a independent contractor/installer and all have said it would not interfere with signal. Guess you'd just have to try it and see.
Here is a little more comprehensive HotShot Install Guide (http://www.pldepot.com/content/pdf/HotShot_Instructions.pdf). As mentioned in an earlier post, there are many variables to consider. If installed properly though, having this on the dish face should not cause significant signal loss. That being said, the Slimline can be a touchy install in certain regions and re-peaking the dish after the HotShot is installed is a good idea. Slight movements in the dish can result in lower signal strength.
1995hoo
12-16-09, 10:46 AM
My dish is mounted on the roof over the bay window in my kitchen, meaning I can access it either by using a ladder or by leaning way out the upstairs window. Two weeks ago we got wet snow and the slush buildup was interfering with the signal, but taking a kitchen floor mop (not a broom, more like a dust mop) and extending the handle while I stood on one of the chairs out on the deck was sufficient to solve the problem. Last January we had one of the DC area's annoying ice storms and that one proved to be more of a nuisance. Leaning out the upstairs window with a hair dryer and using that to melt the ice worked pretty well, although it was a nuisance and it was quite awkward.
I think the most important thing is to put your dish in a location where you can reach it if you need to do so. Some of my neighbors have theirs on their main roofs some three storeys above ground level. No way they're accessing those in the event of an ice storm.
garn9173
01-20-10, 05:58 PM
Well, we ended up with between a quarter and half inch of ice today, came home and the dish was totally iced up. After numerous trips of tossing warm water up on the dish (not the LNB) and presto.
My only problems (in S. PA) have been with ice buildup on the lnb. That's one reason I had my dish moved to a pole mount.
Several people have mentioned that they don't pour warm water on the lnb. Is that a problem? Maybe I can just warm it up enough with my hand. (Don't want to "jostle" the dish though.)
Originally I'd hoped that there was enough electrical activity in the lnb to keep the ice off, but not so. The "hood" over the lnb helps some but once we get about 1/4" of ice, the receiver goes "searching".
Sooo . . . anyone using water on the lnb? I can't see how that would be a problem as long as the water is not too warm.
Hmmm . . . hairdryer? I don't have any use for it on my head anymore!:D
(Maybe chicken soup?)
Beerstalker
01-21-10, 09:25 AM
We just had a big freezing rain storm here yesterday. My dish appeared to still be working fine last night, but I'm not sure if it is today. We lost power at 1:00am and it was still out when I left for work this morning. I'm thinking I might have to clear ice off my dish tonight, so I'm wondering about the LNB too.
What about using cool water with some driveway ice melter disolved in it, or would that be bad for it?
We just had a big freezing rain storm here yesterday. My dish appeared to still be working fine last night, but I'm not sure if it is today. We lost power at 1:00am and it was still out when I left for work this morning. I'm thinking I might have to clear ice off my dish tonight, so I'm wondering about the LNB too.
What about using cool water with some driveway ice melter disolved in it, or would that be bad for it?
or maybe windshield deicer and rinse with plain water?
tyrok3k
01-26-10, 04:14 AM
I noticed these Rain-X type wipes in the DirecTV aisle in Best Buy today. I would have bought one to try out but its probably too cold out to apply it now.
Link (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/King+Controls+-+RainShield+Wipes+for+Most+Satellite+Dishes/9244383.p?id=1218071372008&skuId=9244383&st=wipe&cp=1&lp=1)
Cyber36
01-26-10, 09:55 AM
Tie a black plastic garbage bag around it. Cheap fix & works good.........
Ira Lacher
01-26-10, 10:27 AM
Clear plastic bag from the cleaners works well too.
seltech
01-27-10, 08:46 AM
Up in Maine the elevation for the sats are so low the snow just slides of the dish :lol:. I think people in the south have it a little harder with regards to accumulation.
Only time I lose lose signal is when a big thunderstorm is 10-15 minutes to the southwest heading our way and we only ever lose our HD channels. Its sorta funny, when we see the searching for sat message my family runs to the windows and looks to the south, and we all say that's going to be a big storm :D
My parents also had a signal issue when it rained out and it seemed to happen all the time, during any rain storm. They would call and ask if we still had our channels and we always would. So I went over one time to check it out and the tech mounted the dish on the porch roof in a place where the rain running off of the main roof during any rain shower would fall between the reflector and LNB, so they had a sheet of water flowing between their dish and LNB. I thought we'll theirs the problem :lol: Moved the dish down the roof more and that problem completely went away.
Got 1/2 to over 1 inches of ice scheduled for today's ice storm! :eek2:
Last time this happened I kept signal right up until the power went out for 3 days. :lol:
Funny thing is, we would have been OK except that one of those large sturdy metal transmission towers from the plant to town went down. Must have been a flaw in the design or construction.
We'll see what happens this time.
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