Satellite PCI Card

[James Hill]

Hello! :-)

Is there a *legal* way to bring a D* or E* signal directly into my computer, bypassing the sat box?

I've seen the European options that seem to work only with free to air channels. I'm looking for something that handles all of the channels.

Thanks!

James Hill

[Neil Derryberry]

Nothing exists currently. E* was talking about one years ago, but it never came to be. I wouldn't look for one soon, either... that would put PVR manufacturers (pretty much all of them) out of business.

[DarrellP]

Be nice if they would come out with a HD satellite PCI tuner for about $300 with the ability to record HD to a hard disk.

[zztzed]

Nothing exists currently. E* was talking about one years ago, but it never came to be. I wouldn't look for one soon, either... that would put PVR manufacturers (pretty much all of them) out of business.I doubt that. Look at the availability of analog TV tuner cards and software like MythTV (http://www.mythtv.org/). TiVo and ReplayTV (or whoever owns it now) are still in business. If satellite tuner cards capable of recieving commercial services in the US existed, I really don't think it would change things much -- homebrew PVRs would still be expensive to build (perhaps more expensive thanks to licensing fees that would doubtless be associated with the encryption technology that the satellite tuner cards would have to use), and therefore pretty much solely the domain of the hardcore enthusiast.

[Jacob S]

I think its just a matter of time.

[MrAkai]

Happauge (spelled wrong I"m sure) offers (or offered) a DVB-S card with support for Nagravision. (smart card slot on the pci card)

I wonder if it would work with E* if you could get them to authorize it. Probably not, which is a shame since the Happauge DVB cards are well supported in Windows and Linux.

[James Hill]

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

If anyone knows anything regarding MrAkai's post please respond. This seems to be the closest thing around to a legal solution (and from what I've read, the illegal solutions either don't work or won't work a year from now).

Regarding the financial viability to sell a card like this, it would certainly make E* or D* a quick buck. Since the technology exists in Europe all they'd have to do is licence Hauppauge and let marketing determine the mark-up.

However, the PVR makers would be the roadblock. I don't think it would kill them, but it would take a bite out of their profits. For example, if a card like we're discussing existed, I know I could beat E* projected $999 price tag on their HD/PVR/2 Tuner box. But the $599 price being rumored by D* would be a challenge.

And more importantly, upgrades would happen (with in reason) on my schedule, not theirs.

On the flip side, doing a Media Center PC without the tuner inside becomes harder to make a buck on, especially compared to what TiVo can offer.

If you're interested in what a Media Center PC is and what the price challenges are, there's a great article and discussion thread on ExtremeTech.com.

Thanks again.

James Hill

[waydwolf]

Do a google search on the terms "tcp/a", "palladium", "RIAA", and "MPAA".

HIGHLY unlikely that the content providers will sit still quietly for this as it would allow total uncontrolled recording of any content. That you are a subscriber is totally and completely irrellevant to them. They DO NOT believe in the concept of "fair use" no matter how well enshrined it is in American law, and DO NOT want you having unfettered access to the unencrypted MPEG-2 stream.

Expect the MPAA and others to start squaking about pursuing legal action against anyone selling or otherwise distributing any software, hardware, and/or information for the purpose of "ripping" from PVRs within a year or so.

With the DMCA in force, copy protection measures MUST be in force according to American law and you can bet your butt they won't make it easy for you to marry digital video from DBS or cable to your PC. Many of the people on that side of the battle regard modern PCs to be the biggest threat to intellectual property rights enforcement ever and are prepared for a legal battle to the death to stop the forward momentum of technology and keep us all stranded in the far past. Don't think so? Remember Jack Valenti's immortal words about the VCR: "The VCR is to the American film producer and the American public as the Boston Strangler is to the woman alone."

[James Hill]

In general I agree with you. The entertainment industry sees the parallel between digital source (DVD or Sat) ripping and the Napster debacle. They're probably counting their lucky stars that broadband use hasn't hit a point where it allows for widespread large file sharing.

These guys would put up ten times the fight the music houses did if Blockbuster and Hollywood Video started to lose money.

That being said, I do believe there is/will be a market for commercial use of an unencrypted data stream. For example, hotels aren't going to be in a hurry to put a box in every room. They're going to require the ability to decrypt at a central point to feed their sets. The question will be how its done, and if it can be purchased by the general public.

An update on my search. Looks like, outside of the legal choices, the illegal ones go along the lines of using a cracked box (no thanks) or buying the toys needed to turn a mini-dish into a C-Band receiver and descrambling the signal on the software side (ugh).

If anyone knows of a better alternative please post it or e-mail me at JamesGeorgeHill@aol.com. However, it looks like I'm going to have to start planning my media center with a converter on top of it. Joy.

James Hill

[waydwolf]

That being said, I do believe there is/will be a market for commercial use of an unencrypted data stream. For example, hotels aren't going to be in a hurry to put a box in every room. They're going to require the ability to decrypt at a central point to feed their sets. The question will be how its done, and if it can be purchased by the general public.

The digital transition in 2007 or so means that manufacturers have to start building digital tuners into their TVs and VCRs and one of the major sticking points is which system to use. Well, Sony whipped up a system called Passage which IIRC, encrypts only a small percentage of the stream instead of the whole thing. With only a small amount encrypted, the overall stream is useless and cannot be reconstructed.

This means that with a small amount of overhead in the form of duplicate data encrypted with a second CA(Conditional Access) system, both the GI(General Intrument/Motorola) and Scientific Atlanta systems could be used simultaneously in any cable system.

This would make it much easier to make digital tuners widespread and spur industry(in theory). TVs in hotels would then be addressable and all digital.

They are HIGHLY UNLIKELY to EVER put a CA system on a PCI card. There are FTA MPEG-2 cards availible overseas, but no cable or DBS CA capable system. Unencrypted data streams would in a world of digital tuners be like unencrypted analog channels in today's world: an invitation to service theft and they won't do that in cable any more than locals are broadcast unencrypted on DBS.

[James Hill]

More great points. From my point of view, everything around future encryption should get the "in theory" tag put on it. There are too many variables out there to say, "This is what's coming, get ready to pay."

Short term, I don't expect to see an in-computer solution made available. The risk/reward analysis for the providers doesn't make sense. It's a shame, too, because distributing television off of a server would allow for an efficient, inexpensive model and allow for some exciting technology (on demand video comes to mind) to become a reality.

Long term, I think new ways are going to have to be determined for distributing entertainment (television, Internet, music, and so on). The Dish DVR Fee issue is a prime example of marketing, engineering, and the customer being far apart on how technology is going to be acquired, paid for, and improved upon.

Regarding my search, I'm starting to look towards how IR Blaster can be used to tune the satellite box and a computer at the same time. Any information that can be provided by anyone would be appreciated.

James Hill

[PeterB]

There is a project out there to get get a legal version of the DVB PCI card software out there.

You would need a DVB card, ISO card reader, and a legitmate subscribed, dish network or ExpressVU access card.

[James Hill]

Care to share a link to this project?

James Hill