Commercials are LOUDER...

[the_beaver]

Recently, the last month or so, i have
noticed a big change in volume levels
between programs and commercials...
I now have to adjust the volume down
when commercials come on and turn
it back up when the programs begin...
Not having to do this little remote
ritual was one of the major reasons
i decided to switch back to satellite
from cable---Has anybody else noticed
this annoying volume thing???

I have not changed anything with my
AV system---a 721 connected to a
Sony home theatre in a box...

Thanks...

[Randy_B]

Is there a particular channel that you notice tis on or is it pretty much all channels? I have noticed a problem with my St Louis locals. I have assumed it is because Dish pulls them off the air and then sends them to the uplink, rather than a direct feed. Sound is especially effected. Normally our Sony receiver is set to 14 or 15 for all channels except locals. These have to be set on about 23 to 26. I do not know if Dish inserts some of there own commercials in the local feeds, but there are instances, and when set to the is volume you can tell the difference. Fortunately, the Sony picks this up and does dampen it somewhat. I have noticed this on any other feed other than our locals.

[EvanS]

...a 721 connected to a
Sony home theatre in a box...


Beav - I don't get it...

...you have a 721 yet somehow you still know how loud a commercial is?? :grin:

[the_beaver]

Is there a particular channel that you notice tis on or is it pretty much all channels? I have noticed a problem with my St Louis locals. I have assumed it is because Dish pulls them off the air and then sends them to the uplink, rather than a direct feed. Sound is especially effected. Normally our Sony receiver is set to 14 or 15 for all channels except locals. These have to be set on about 23 to 26. I do not know if Dish inserts some of there own commercials in the local feeds, but there are instances, and when set to the is volume you can tell the difference. Fortunately, the Sony picks this up and does dampen it somewhat. I have noticed this on any other feed other than our locals.

hmmm...you know what???---come to think
of it, it does only happen on my seattle locals...
It annoys me to no end BUT don't worry i won't
play victim, rant, or become obsessed and author
dozens of posts about the travesty of this
limitation!! :nono2:
Thanks for your input...

[the_beaver]

Beav - I don't get it...

...you have a 721 yet somehow you still know how loud a commercial is?? :grin:

OK, WALLY, quit giving
me the business!!! :grrr:

[TomCat]

When sounds appear to be at different levels from commercial to program within the same channel that can be annoying, but when a cable or DBS vendor doesn't match one channel to the next, that can REALLY be annoying.

One of the best purchases I ever made which can very successfully combat both problems was a little box from Fry's Electronics that does 2:1 and 10:1 compression (essentially slow-response automatic level control). It cost $50 and I haven't had to touch the volume level during a show or while surfing ever since. I just leave it on 10:1 all of the time, bypassing it if I'm listening to music (which this kind of automatic level control can suck the life out of). If you are interested in this product, let me know and I'll research the name (affiliated in no way).

Incidentally, commercials are not really louder, at least at the peaks. As hard to believe as that is, it's the truth. They quite often have more aggragate sound energy due to limiting and up-compression techniques (quick-response) and they definitely SOUND louder, but nothing ever goes beyond a set ceiling. Every broadcaster uses brick-wall limiting to keep excessive peaks out of their transmitters. The peaks are at the same level as those of the program unless the program levels are run excessively low, which every broadcaster normally takes great pains not to do. The valleys, however, are much more shallow due to the decreased dynamic range, creating the perception of increased level.

[Big Bob]

A good master control operator will be constantly adjusting the audio level. Don't know how many nights I sat with one very good (and cute) MC operator and watched her adjust all the time.

I don't think the MC operators have the time to do that anymore. If there is a person there at all.

[Chris Blount]

TomCat is correct. The commercials only sound louder. The only reason they do is because they peak more often than regular programming.

[mjschuyler]

The subject of loud commercials has been brought several times. During a very early Tech Chat E* did a demonstration at their uplink center. The sound levels are automatically adjusted to the same level during a program BUT when many commercials come on they are at a higher volume level. The Technician said they COULD adjust the volume to match the program BUT programming providers made them sign an agreement that they would NOT lower the volume or they would be in violation of the contract.


Murray

[DmitriA]

During a very early Tech Chat E* did a demonstration at their uplink center

Slightly off-topic, but that's exactly the type of stuff that is missing from today's Tech Chats and one of the primary reasons why they are so boring these days...

[Jacob S]

Time to get a tv with smart sound like what Magnavox offers? Smart. Very Smart.

[Doug E]

Yes TomCat, I would be interested in learning what device it is, including a part or model number so I can do a search.

[Karl Foster]

Time to get a tv with smart sound like what Magnavox offers? Smart. Very Smart.

My new Toshiba flat-screen tv's have "Steady Sound" which keeps the volume level. Works great!

[TomCat]

A good master control operator will be constantly adjusting the audio level. Don't know how many nights I sat with one very good (and cute) MC operator and watched her adjust all the time.

I don't think the MC operators have the time to do that anymore. If there is a person there at all.

I'm rubbing elbows every day with a number of very good MC ops, who do indeed make great efforts to adjust levels that seem high or low. We are as automated as it gets, and the MCO's are still busy as one-armed paperhangers. We also use high-end metering which shows both peak and RMS (average) sound energy levels simultaneously, and multi-band compressors and limiters to keep things at the right levels. And we are typical of most operations.

Keeping the sounds level is not as easy as one might think, specifically because of the pre-processing that is used on many commercials. We are at war, actually, with them constantly coming up with new ways to make their commercial sound louder and us constantly being vigilant to keep levels "sounding" the same. It takes a combination of dilligence, experience, and sophisticated (and properly maintained and adjusted) equipment to win this war, which operations that are lacking in any of these areas will most surely loose.

One new wrinkle is that much ingest programming is now recorded directly to server hard drives and it is difficult if not impossible to set levels going in the way it used to be with analog or digital VTR's. This means extra equipment and attention needed in this area.

Bottom line, its a problem that will never be cured completely even with the best of intentions, but there are workarounds at the consumer level. I will try to post the name of the device I use, which is very similar to the circuit used in the Magnavox sets.