BAY AREA HD LOCALS - Feedback Request from Dish Network

[phrelin]

This afternoon I received the following email from Dish Quality: We would like to inform you that we are currently scheduled to make major adjustments this week on the SF HD locals. We are hoping you and the rest of the forum customers notice a difference. Very similar to what we did in St. Louis, for the next three days we will be swapping out equipment and making adjustments. We would love to hear the customers’ opinions from within the Spot Beam. Would you be willing to organize a place on the forums so that posters including you can tell us what they are seeing and hearing from now through Monday 1/25/10? We would be most interested to hear if the audio drops have gone away on the recordings of NBC and CBS. Also, FOX did make an adjustment mid December. However a few stations around the country are still dealing with the audio trill/stutter/lip sync to various degrees or not at all. We are still seeing a few complaints on SF-KTVU-FOX for audio issues. We would be curious how the problem is now manifesting itself with the new change. We would also be interested in hearing about any picture quality issues on any of the HD locals. Of course, if a station is having problems it may not go away with this move. However, it could manifest itself differently, be totally masked, or we may still have the problem.

Thank you once again for the assist. We looked forward to hearing what our customers think of their San Francisco’s HD locals now through Monday. Just let us know the link so we can monitor the observations. It is always very helpful when customers state what receiver they are using and the show they are watching. Hope you and the forum crew had a great Christmas and a Happy New Year! Since a number of the shows I regularly record are reruns this week, I'm hoping others will report their experiences here this week.

NOTE: This is a continuation of the discussions in the threads
A Thoughtful Response from Quality Assurance (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=169808&highlight=Bay+Area+Fox)
Bay Area Fox KTVU 2 Audio-Video Problems (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=168713&highlight=Bay+Area+Fox)

[BattleZone]

This is good news! I've forwarded it to my California managers.

[plasmacat]

Human Target on Fox tonight might be a good show to try.

Since the audio issues have been happening I have been recording strictly OTA broadcasts on Fox and on the other locals as well unless there is a conflict. The other locals shows (few) I have recorded lately off the sat feed have been OK audiowise.

However on "24" I had one major audio dropout lasting maybe 10-20 seconds on each night and this was off the OTA feed. One of these was when Starbuck (er Dana) was talking to her excon boyfriend in the parking lot.

[mgs24]

However on "24" I had one major audio dropout lasting maybe 10-20 seconds on each night and this was off the OTA feed. One of these was when Starbuck (er Dana) was talking to her excon boyfriend in the parking lot.

I had the exact same dropout on my OTA recordings of 24. 722k receiver w/OTA module

[phrelin]

It would be interesting to find out if anyone watched the "24" episode OTA live directly on their HD TV bypassing Dish equipment and heard the audio dropout. I have posted a similar request on the HDTV-in-SFbay (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/HDTV-in-SFbay/) Yahoo tech group.

[Everlast]

My experience with Fox / KTVU since mid-December has been free of audio dropouts. At least I can't recall any incidents since then. Prior to the "adjustment" all you had to do was watch 10-15 minutes and you would notice the stutter.

[phrelin]

We experienced one audio/video freeze followed by about four seconds of black screen in the middle of our recording off the satellite of "Criminal Minds" tonight. ViP722 with the following possible variables: (1) we started watching the recording from the beginning when it was about 35 minutes into the broadcast; (2) we are having bad weather which doesn't usually, but can, cause rain fade, though it didn't look like rain fade. These kinds of freeze and/or black screen incidents are frequent with CBS shows on KPIX.

[phrelin]

Both this week's "Bones" and "Fringe" on KTVU (Fox) were free of any problems, the first time since this season started last fall. ViP722 - both shows were still recording when we started watching them and another HD show was recording at the same time.

[dmspen]

I've had all kinds of dropouts over the last few days. Grey's Anatomy was bad as well as Private Practice. The dropouts were both video and audio. The picture would freeze and sound would stop for 3-4 seconds. It happened a total of about 8 times between different shows. I also saw this on Last Monday's episode of House.
I'm going to start keeping track of these.

[plasmacat]

Finally watched my recording of Human Target on Fox (sat feed, 622) and it was perfect - no audio dropouts.

[phrelin]

I've had all kinds of dropouts over the last few days. Grey's Anatomy was bad as well as Private Practice. The dropouts were both video and audio. The picture would freeze and sound would stop for 3-4 seconds. It happened a total of about 8 times between different shows. I also saw this on Last Monday's episode of House.
I'm going to start keeping track of these.Is this on your 722k from the satellite? I'll watch "Grey's" and "PP" tonight.

[phrelin]

I received the following email from Dish Quality today:Thank you for organizing the observations on the forums! One of our biggest changes took place early this morning. We look forward to reading the results on Monday. It does help if customers state if they are watching OTA or the DISH feed. It also helps to know if you are seeing it on our feed and if you see it on OTA as well. Sometimes what happens on OTA may be a slight glitch but by the time we run it through our system it can become a bigger problem. If it happens on OTA it may not happen on our feed at the exact same time but somewhat close. Thanks again for organizing. We hope what you saw on KTVU continues! Have a good weekend to all.So let's keep the information flow going here.

[phrelin]

I've had all kinds of dropouts over the last few days. Grey's Anatomy was bad as well as Private Practice. The dropouts were both video and audio. The picture would freeze and sound would stop for 3-4 seconds. It happened a total of about 8 times between different shows. I also saw this on Last Monday's episode of House.
I'm going to start keeping track of these.Is this on your 722k from the satellite? I'll watch "Grey's" and "PP" tonight.Well, this is curious. The playback of my recordings of "Grey's Anatomy" and "Private Practice" on my 722 were flawless. They were recorded last night from the satellite feed of KGO (ABC), so I wouldn't think the changes made by Dish this morning would have affected them.

On the other hand, my recording of "The Mentalist" made last night from the satellite feed of KPIX (CBS) has several audio drops and one full audio/video freeze that went to black for about 3 seconds.

In our household's normal recording schedule, tonight there was no normal programming on the broadcast networks and Sunday night are repeats. But Monday we'll have shows on Fox, ABC and NBC and Tuesday we'll get some CBS shows.

Hopefully, others will have a different recording schedule and will report in here whether from the satellite or OTA.

[dmspen]

Is this on your 722k from the satellite? I'll watch "Grey's" and "PP" tonight.

Yes, from recorded shows. I also had video dropouts where the picture just 'blinked' black for about 1 second.

[Grandude]

I haven't had any problems to speak of this past week. I do lose track of when a show was aired as I constantly time shift and try to watch the older programs first.

I still do have a problem of the quality of the local satellite signal here in the SF Bay Area.
None of the local HD channels report a signal on the point dish screen. Thus I am unable to tell if I have a dish pointing problem. The locals that are not HD work on the point dish screen.

[phrelin]

I haven't had any problems to speak of this past week. I do lose track of when a show was aired as I constantly time shift and try to watch the older programs first.

I still do have a problem of the quality of the local satellite signal here in the SF Bay Area.
None of the local HD channels report a signal on the point dish screen. Thus I am unable to tell if I have a dish pointing problem. The locals that are not HD work on the point dish screen.The "no lock, no signal strength number" on our spotbeam drives me nuts as I sometimes think I could have a problem with 119° where our HD signals come from. So I then I have to check other transponders and assume things are ok with my transponder 7.

Back in September 2009 I had the following email exchange with Dish Quality:
TO: Dish Quality

Another Dish customer asked me on DBSTalk to check the signal meter
(Menu,6,1,1) after tuning to any San Francisco Bay Area HD local
(Satellite 119 Transponder 7, I believe Spotbeam 4) because he was not
getting a signal lock and meter reading even though the video/audio is
normal for the channels. This was true on his 722, 622 and two 211's. So
I couldn't dismiss the request.

On my 722 and 612 I also get no signal lock and meter reading for
Satellite 119 Transponder 7 despite the fact that the video/audio is
normal for the channels. Transponders 8, 6, and 5 all lock and read just
fine.

I'm sure there must be some reasonable explanation for this. But just in
case this indicates a problem developing which according to Murphy's Law
would interfere with next week's broadcast network season premiers, I
thought I should tell you about it.

Sincerely,
(ME)Dear (ME),

Thank you for your email. I did some research on this and found that as
long as you are receiving these channels with no problems it should not
affect anything negatively. If you do start having problems please let
me know ASAP. Just curious are you guys now experiencing the temperature
inversions?

EchoStar Broadcasting Corporation
Quality Assurance DepartmentSo apparently it doesn't mean anything.

[phrelin]

Tonight is a night that I'm not recording anything from our HD locals. So if anyone out there watches live or records and watches off the satellite or off the air the NFL games or any prime time shows on HD ABC, Fox, NBC, or CBS (and KRON MyTV, I guess) be sure to report if you did or did not have any audio or video problems.

There are more new episodes of our regular shows on the local HD channels Monday and Tuesday. But the more customers reporting, the better idea we'll have about the effect of the changes. Please indicate your receiver/DVR model, whether you recorded/watched from the satellite or OTA (they want OTA reports as well as satellite) and whether you watched live or a recording.

[Larry Kenney]

I'm located in San Francisco using a ViP622 receiver.

I haven't noticed any audio problems on KTVU for several weeks. I've watched all of the "American Idol" shows via the KTVU satellite feed for the past two weeks and they've been fine.

Except for an occasional drop out, I haven't had any reception problems with any of the Bay Area stations. I have no complaints on the reception of any of the HD stations from Dish.

Edit: Added Comment - The reception from my OTA tuner in the 622 of all local stations is fine too.

Larry
SF

[phrelin]

I have received reports from some of the Yahoo Group Bay Area HDTV off-the-air members who don't use cable or satellite that "24" had audio dropouts in the two premier episodes, including one member that still has them stored on his TiVo. Also members who had Comcast and DirecTV indicated they had them. So it seems that KTVU and/or Fox does indeed have a problem that has been fixed hopefully.

[dmspen]

I had a couple of pixelations and frame blinking during the football game on Sunday.

[phrelin]

OK. Recordings off the satellite tonight on the ViP722:

One major audio video freeze towards the beginning of "House" on KTVU Fox, but no audio problems; started watching the show from the beginning while it was recording as was "Chuck" also recording.
A couple of instantaneous audio drops and one instantaneous gurgle in "Chuck" on KNTV NBC, almost not noticeable; it's recording was completed when we started watching though it was recording simultaneously with "House" and other shows were recording while we watched it.

That's it for broadcast network recordings made since Friday as we watched stuff recorded previously plus "Men of a Certain Age" recorded tonight on TNT which has never been a problem

[phrelin]

Interesting observation from a member of the HDTV-in-SFbay Yahoo Group: Last night several local stations carried the telethon for Haiti. I took advantage of this to do a comparison of the HD video quality using the OTA receiver in my Dish ViP622 DVR. Here's my opinion, listed best to worst:

1-KPIX5, KMAX31 and KBCW44 - CBS and TheCW
2-KCRA3 and KNTV11 - NBC... a close second
3-KRCB22
4-ABC: KGO7 and KXTV10
5-KQED9
6-FOX: KTVU2 (This surprised me. The video was quite "fuzzy".)
7-KCSM60... was 16:9 but didn't look HD

This was a rare opportunity. It's not often that you have the same program on so many stations.Boy do I envy his OTA reception having both Bay Area and Sacramento OTA stations.

[phrelin]

Tonight we watched the follow broadcast network HD shows recorded off the satellite on the 722:

"Castle" recorded last night from KGO ABC was flawless.
"Leno", at least that portion including Headlines and the interview of Mark Harmon, recorded last night from KNTV NBC was flawless.
Then there was "NCIS" from KPIX CBS which started at 8 pm tonight; started watching the show from the beginning while it was recording; exactly 2 minutes into the recording it had an audio drop followed audio/video freeze all taking about 3 seconds but the screen didn't go black (incidentally, these freezes are on the recording and can be played back).
I'm hoping others watch "NCIS" live or recorded from the satellite or OTA and can indicate whether they saw the problem at the beginning.

[Grandude]

Then there was "NCIS" from KPIX CBS which started at 8 pm tonight; started watching the show from the beginning while it was recording; exactly 2 minutes into the recording it had an audio drop followed audio/video freeze all taking about 3 seconds but the screen didn't go black (incidentally, these freezes are on the recording and can be played back).
[/LIST]I'm hoping others watch "NCIS" live or recorded from the satellite or OTA and can indicate whether they saw the problem at the beginning.
I had the exact same problem on NCIS last night. Was watching live from Dish.

[dmspen]

Last night on American Idiot,er,uh,,,idol, there was a 4 second video freeze with loss of sound.

[plasmacat]

Watched recordings off the sat feed of Heroes and Human Target (on 622). Both were fine - no glitches.

[phrelin]

Forgot to post. Shows below were recorded Tuesday from the satellite feed on our ViP722 and watched last night after watching 10 minutes behind a dropout free "State of Union" from KNTV NBC:

"NCIS: Los Angeles" from KPIX CBS, no problems.
"Human Target" from KTVU Fox, no problems.

[phrelin]

Just an update on our experience:

Thursday's "Bones" on KTVU Fox had one of those freezes around two-three minutes into it but "Fringe" that followed it did not; Friday's "Dollhouse" had no problems.
Thursday's "Deep End" on KGO ABC had no problems.
Thursday's "Leno" on KNTV NBC interviews of "Bill Paxton" and "Senator Scott Brown" had no problems.
Tomorrow we'll be watching two CBS shows recorded tonight. So far this week, the gurgle sound is gone.

[phrelin]

Update:

Friday's "Medium" and "Numbers" from KPIX CBS had no problems.
Saturday's "Hallmark Hall of Fame: The Magic of Ordinary Days" from KPIX CBS had no problems.

Anyone else watching anything on the Bay Area locals who'd like to chime in here?:grin:

[Kevin Brown]

I am still getting these. I need to do a better job of remembering what shows though. Maybe one instance per hour. I know Dollhouse from Fri got hit.

[Kevin Brown]

At least 3 instances last night on Chuck. I also watched Burn Notice from last Thurs, and while there weren't any of the little audio buzz instances I usually get, there was a multi-second period of garbeled audio and (blacked out) video. Might not be the same thing though.

[phrelin]

We're a little behind in our viewing, but last night we watched the following recorded from the satellite feed on our 722:

"The Grammy's" last hour recorded from KPIX CBS Sunday, no problem with the show unless those sound drops during the hip hop number were not deliberate "bleeps."
"House" recorded from KTVU Fox had no problems.
"Two and a Half Men" and "The Big Bang Theory" from KPIX had no problems.

At least 3 instances last night on Chuck. I also watched Burn Notice from last Thurs, and while there weren't any of the little audio buzz instances I usually get, there was a multi-second period of garbeled audio and (blacked out) video. Might not be the same thing though.We'll check out "Chuck" tonight. Yes, we had the problem with "Burn Notice" but it seemed to have started with pixelation so I'm not exactly sure what happened there. I haven't been reporting cable channel shows we watch, but I'll keep an eye on them as we watch the full lineup of USA and TNT prime time shows.

I'll be curious to see how tonight's "Lost" on KGO ABC fares though I doubt I can get my wife to sit through the whole three hours (less commercials) in one night.:grin:

[phrelin]

Update:

"Chuck" from KNTV NBC Monday indeed did have several problems as reported above by Kevin Brown including one full "gurgle" followed by a full audio loss as well as minor audio drops.
"NCIS" from KPIX CBS tonight had a couple of instantaneous audio drops while "How I Met Your Mother" and "Accidentally on Purpose" from Monday did not.
"Lost" from KGO ABC - we skipped through the first hour recap episode; we have watched the first hour of the two hour episode with no problems.

[phrelin]

Little behind in my updates from my recordings on my ViP722 off the satellite:

From KTVU Fox, Wednesday's "Human Target" had one pixelation episode and Thursday's "Bones" had one pixelation episode with a freeze.
From KPIX CBS, Tuesday's " NCIS: Los Angeles" and Wednesday's "Criminal Minds" had no problems.
From KGO ABC, Wednesday's "The Middle", "Modern Family", and "Cougar Town" had no problems.
I cannot guarantee that the pixelation on KTVU's "Human Target" was not weather related as I have no recordings we watch from other locals at that time. I will be able to check KGO's "The Deep End" and NBC comedies to see if there was a corresponding problem to the one I saw on "Bones."

Anyone else in the Bay Area have anything to report on locals?

[Grandude]

The 8PM preview episode of Survivors called "Surviving Survivors" last night on CBS Ch5 had a brief freeze about 2 or 3 minutes into it. I was watching live and went back and looked at the recording of it and the freeze was there too. Freeze lasted probably 3 or 4 seconds.

[phrelin]

The 8PM preview episode of Survivors called "Surviving Survivors" last night on CBS Ch5 had a brief freeze about 2 or 3 minutes into it. I was watching live and went back and looked at the recording of it and the freeze was there too. Freeze lasted probably 3 or 4 seconds.
I'm beginning to wonder about that "2-3 minutes into the show" freeze on KPIX. Wonder if there is something they do regularly, but not always that screws things up?

EDIT:
Update:

From KGO ABC, Thursday's "Grey's Anatomy" and "Private Practice" had no problems.
From KTVU Fox, Thursday"s "Fringe" had no problems.
From KPIX CBS, Thursday's "The Mentalist" had no problems.
From KNTV NBC, Thursday's "Community" and "Parks & Recreation" had no problems.

[phrelin]

Ok, I'm a bit behind here. But I'm going to make some general observations, again from the standpoint of recording off the satellite.

I'm getting increased pixelation with KPIX CBS - the Superbowl was full of it on my 612's recording which may have more to do with the 612, but in regular programming on my 722 I'm seeing more than I did three weeks ago.
I'm getting the 4 second audio-video freeze within the 2-3 minute window in the beginning of shows on an infrequent-but-often-enough basis to wonder what that's all about.
The audio gurgle (usually followed by a freeze) so far is completely gone from the locals except KNTV NBC where I didn't see it often before - that KNTV is the only one of the HD locals not fed from Sutro Tower at least raises a question in my mind.

If anyone else from the Bay Area DMA has any observations, please chime in, whether you record from the satellite or OTA or watch live.

[Kevin Brown]

I recorded the Super Bowl, and then watched it later, but I can't remember any problems.

Unfortunately, I'm finding that when these little glitches happen, if I'm not In "active brain" mode, I just pass them off subconciously as "it is what it is", and then I forget I even saw them.

I plan to watch Chuck tonight though.

Also, I thought this was just random, but I'll mention it anyway. When I recorded the 1-26 episode of Human Target, about 16 min in (or so), my box crashed. Had to reboot, and then it automatically finished up the recording.

[finniganps]

I had a few pixalation issues with the Superbowl (live), but nothing else I remember recently.

[phrelin]

Ok. I feel comfortable observing that the "gurgle, audio drop, sometimes with a full freeze" that was very frequent four months ago on KTVU, KGO, and KPIX appears to be gone. I haven't watched enough on KNTV NBC to know.

It also appears that the endemic audio dropouts are gone, but I'm still seeing occasional audio/video freezes mostly with KPIX in the first 2-3 minutes of a recording which is probably unrelated to the fix for the Bay Area DMA.

So I'm feeling like the problems reported in the Bay Area Fox KTVU 2 Audio-Video Problems (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=168713&highlight=Bay+Area+Fox) thread have been resolved. But I'll still keep this thread alive for awhile.

Last night from my recordings on my ViP722 off the satellite:

From KTVU Fox "House" had no problems.
From KPIX CBS "Two and a Half Men" and "The Big Bang Theory" had no problems.

The odds of being able to report this result two months ago were slim.