What exactly do I need to go SWM?

[Tonedeaf]

I have read many threads about others installs etc.

What exactly do I need for my setup to go to SWM?

I have the Slimline 5 LNB dish that is connected to 2 WB68 multi switches. The 4 runs from the dish are connected to splitters and each of the 2 runs then go to the WB68's.

I have read of some folks getting their hardware on ebay. Couple searches over there have turned up what I think I need, but just want to be sure I have all of it before I go ordering so I can get it done in one install and not multiple times up in the attic.


My current inventory of receivers is in my signature. Any help you can provide to point me in the right direction is much appreciated.

Thanks.

[veryoldschool]

"Seems like" you would only need one SWM8 and swap it out for one of your WB68s.
Connect [with splitters] all your HR2x DVRs to this and run your R15s off the other WB68.
So: splitter(s), SWM8 + 29 volt PI.

[Tonedeaf]

"Seems like" you would only need one SWM8 and swap it out for one of your WB68s.
Connect [with splitters] all your HR2x DVRs to this and run your R15s off the other WB68.
So: splitter(s), SWM8 + 29 volt PI.
So could I use the splitters that are currently connected then? Just as you say replace the WB68 with a SWM8 and a PI and am done? Anything needed on the other end of the coax run at the receivers? I do not use BBC's with SWM right?

[veryoldschool]

So could I use the splitters that are currently connected then? Just as you say replace the WB68 with a SWM8 and a PI and am done? Anything needed on the other end of the coax run at the receivers? I do not use BBC's with SWM right?
You need to keep the WB68 to feed your R15s, so the splitters you have need to stay.
As for the other WB68, the SWM8 replaces it.
Maybe you should look at this for how/what to do:
http://forums.directv.com/pe/RepositoryFileDownloadServlet/10396641/SWM%20-%20Integrated%20LNB-ModuleTraining.pdf

[bobnielsen]

Both WB68s could be replaced with SWM8s and there would be 6 legacy ports, enough to feed 2 R15s, if you will have a future need for more than 8 SWM-connected tuners.

[harsh]

So could I use the splitters that are currently connected then?Yes, but you'll need an additional splitter to divvy up the SWM signal.

In the grand scheme, the current benefit of going through this exercise is that you'll get a second feed to the HR20-700 and you need to ask yourself if it is worth the time and money.

[harsh]

Both WB68s could be replaced with SWM8s and there would be 6 legacy ports, enough to feed 2 R15s, if you will have a future need for more than 8 SWM-connected tuners.You gain three legacy connections (for 22 total tuners) over the 1+1 setup. Hardly seems worth the extra $140 when four of the receivers are already double-wired.

Looking forward, there's the question of bridging DECA networks.

[Tonedeaf]

Will the SWM automatically diplex an OTA antenna into the line going to the HR20/22's? I think I read that the diplexing is only capable for the legacy ports?

Thanks for everyone's input thus far.

Looking at ebay, I can secure all I would need for $55 shipped.

[Tonedeaf]

Maybe you should look at this for how/what to do:
http://forums.directv.com/pe/RepositoryFileDownloadServlet/10396641/SWM%20-%20Integrated%20LNB-ModuleTraining.pdf

Thanks for the link. That helps.

[veryoldschool]

Will the SWM automatically diplex an OTA antenna into the line going to the HR20/22's? I think I read that the diplexing is only capable for the legacy ports?

Thanks for everyone's input thus far.

Looking at ebay, I can secure all I would need for $55 shipped.
Use any spare coax for your OTA, since diplexing isn't supported, shouldn't really be done, and doesn't feed the legacy ports either.

[Tonedeaf]

How is this? This is all I need right?

LINK (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-DIRECTV-SWM-8-SINGLE-WIRE-MULTISWITCH-W-PWR-SUPPLY_W0QQitemZ200431144079QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2eaaa08c8f)

Use any spare coax for your OTA, since diplexing isn't supported, shouldn't really be done, and doesn't feed the legacy ports either.
I probably would have thought of that eventually, but thanks again for your help.

[veryoldschool]

How is this? This is all I need right?

http://rover.ebay.com/ar/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?mpt=13688881&adtype=1&size=1x1&type=3&campid=5336432741&toolid=10001 LINK (http://go.avsforum.com/?aid=5336432741&bid=3781821&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2FNEW-DIRECTV-SWM-8-SINGLE-WIRE-MULTISWITCH-W-PWR-SUPPLY_W0QQitemZ200431144079QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0%3Fhash%3Ditem2eaaa08c8f)


I probably would have thought of that eventually, but thanks again for your help.
That's a SWM8 & the right PI, so splitters are the only thing left and I use these:

http://www.a1components.com/itemdisplayn.aspx?item=4349

http://www.a1components.com/itemdisplayn.aspx?item=4350

[Xsabresx]

You need to keep the WB68 to feed your R15s, so the splitters you have need to stay.
As for the other WB68, the SWM8 replaces it.
Maybe you should look at this for how/what to do:
http://forums.directv.com/pe/RepositoryFileDownloadServlet/10396641/SWM%20-%20Integrated%20LNB-ModuleTraining.pdf

Thanks for the link. That helps.

That helped? I am pretty much resigned to the fact that I will forever have 2 receivers. 887 "SWM" threads later and I dont know any more than I did in the beginning. :hair:

[harsh]

That helped? I am pretty much resigned to the fact that I will forever have 2 receivers. 887 "SWM" threads later and I dont know any more than I did in the beginning. :hair:Do you have a specific question that we might help you with? There really isn't much to setting up an SWiM system other than understanding its limitations.

[Xsabresx]

Do you have a specific question that we might help you with? There really isn't much to setting up an SWiM system other than understanding its limitations.


I am not sure if it is the terms used in all of the explanations but nothing ever seems to make sense. I also am a little concerned with hoping that the CSR gets it right based on what I need. I dont mind paying the installers to do the work, but I want to make sure I get it right.

Here is what I have:

I believe it is the Slimline 5LNB dish. (the dish says "Slimline" and has the two "side saddle" LNBs)
4 wires coming from the LNB to the grounding block
2 wires from each side of the block going to each receiver.

It is probably your run of the mill 2 receiver install.

I want to add as many as 3 receivers (total 5)

As I understand it, I need the SWM8. I thought I read in one of the threads that the SWM needs to be installed indoors? (that will be a problem)

It seems as simple as connecting the 4 lines from the dish to the SWM and then one line from the SWM to each receiver.

I guess I am stuck as to where the SWM gets power from.

I havent taken the time to ask the questions before as usually the answer is "have you tried the search? there are a lot of threads out there" :)

Oh and one other question. In reading about the SWM it said to make sure the HR20 has a specific firmware. How would I know the firmware version?

EDIT: Let me rephrase that last question. One of the threads said to look at this:
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=SWM-8-NOPOWER

It says :

SWM Port Compatible With:

* HR21 HD DVR Receivers
* H21 HD Receiver
* HR20 w/ .2042 Firmware Update
* H20 w/ .2042 Firmware Update

All I ever see is
Software: 0x395 (just got the NR)

[veryoldschool]

All software out now works with SWM.
The SWM8 works with 4 DVRs max, since each uses two tuners/SWM channels.
The power for it comes from the PI 29 and connects to SWM #1, but it has an output to feed receivers so it normally simply mounts behind a receiver.

[Xsabresx]

Ok, now I understand even less. What is it that I read that you now only need one line for each receiver (HR20 and up)?

[harsh]

If you upgrade through DIRECTV, they'll more than likely set you up with WB68s as needed. You cannot "order" SWiM from DIRECTV. At some point in the very near future, that's likely to change for upgraders.

Asking for a new LNB or dish might be a bad idea because, as VOS points out, that limits you to eight tuners and you may have to eventually go back to your current setup with multiswitches to get past eight tuners. If there's a chance that all five receivers are DVRs (it helps if you distinguish between receivers and DVRs so we can establish a total tuner count), you'll need two switches anyway.


In the future, if you see terms that you don't understand, use the forum search feature and see where that gets you. If it is truly a buzzword, you'll find many mentions and if you look at some of the earlier mentions, there may be a layman's definition.

[harsh]

Ok, now I understand even less. What is it that I read that you now only need one line for each receiver (HR20 and up)?SWiM allows you to use one cable from a SWiM switch (or LNB) with a splitter to serve up to eight tuners. Much like the cable TV model where there's only one cable coming into the facility and it is split to each box.

The limitations are that SWiM supports eight tuners (receivers have one, DVRs have two) and it works best with a single splitter.

[veryoldschool]

Ok, now I understand even less. What is it that I read that you now only need one line for each receiver (HR20 and up)?
:confused:

Maybe you need to start out "fresh" and ask your questions [again].

Non SWM systems require switches and a coax to each "tuner" [2 for DVRs].

SWM systems use a single coax that you can split to feed all your receivers, much like how CATV works.

The DVR will need only one cable and it connects both tuners inside the DVR.

One SWM8 will feed up to eight tuners [4 DVRs, or 3 DVRs + 2 receivers, etc.]
If you have more than eight tuners, then you will either have two SWM8s or the new SWiM-16 or SWiM-32, as needed.

[veryoldschool]

The limitations are that SWiM supports eight tuners (receivers have one, DVRs have two) and it works best with a single splitter.
While I understand the point you're trying to make, it isn't always the case.

[Xsabresx]

:confused:

Maybe you need to start out "fresh" and ask your questions [again].

Non SWM systems require switches and a coax to each "tuner" [2 for DVRs].

SWM systems use a single coax that you can split to feed all your receivers, much like how CATV works.

The DVR will need only one cable and it connects both tuners inside the DVR.

One SWM8 will feed up to eight tuners [4 DVRs, or 3 DVRs + 2 receivers, etc.]
If you have more than eight tuners, then you will either have two SWM8s or the new SWiM-16 or SWiM-32, as needed.

But now you see why I am pulling my hair out? The simple question is that I have two receivers and I want to add as many as 3 more, what do I need to do? Everyone on this site (present company included) is always willing to help and I have gotten a lot of useful info from here, but this is one that no one seems to be able to give a clear black and white answer to.

I can even settle for adding just two more, but based on what I have seen seems to be just as muddled.

[veryoldschool]

But now you see why I am pulling my hair out? The simple question is that I have two receivers and I want to add as many as 3 more, what do I need to do? Everyone on this site (present company included) is always willing to help and I have gotten a lot of useful info from here, but this is one that no one seems to be able to give a clear black and white answer to.

I can even settle for adding just two more, but based on what I have seen seems to be just as muddled.
OK, lets start out with "what receivers do you have now", and then go from there.

[harsh]

But now you see why I am pulling my hair out?I can't say that I do. I think the problem is that you're trying to find non-existent traps in something that is pretty straightforward.

The other side of the equation is that you don't "need" SWiM but it may be beneficial.

If you ask DIRECTV for more receivers (or DVRs), they will set you up with what you need and you pretty much won't have to lift a finger other than to call them to order and make sure an adult is home when they show up.

It isn't rocket science and your life doesn't depend on it.

[Xsabresx]

OK, lets start out with "what receivers do you have now", and then go from there.


I have an HR20-700 and an HR23-700

[Xsabresx]

I can't say that I do. I think the problem is that you're trying to find non-existent traps in something that is pretty straightforward.

The other side of the equation is that you don't "need" SWiM but it may be beneficial.

If you ask DIRECTV for more receivers (or DVRs), they will set you up with what you need and you pretty much won't have to lift a finger other than to call them to order and make sure an adult is home when they show up.

It isn't rocket science and your life doesn't depend on it.

When I called Directv to upgrade to HD, I told them what I had and what I wanted. The installer showed up with no dish because there was no dish in the initial order. This is after Directv told me that I couldnt install it myself because of the larger dish.

I want to make sure I understand what is needed to I can convey that to Directv. Or, possibly do it myself.

[veryoldschool]

I have an HR20-700 and an HR23-700
OK, so you have 4 tuners now.
You can add 2 more DVRs or 4 receivers, with either a [non SWM] WB68 or change to a SWM LNB [at the dish] and have one coax running from the dish.
This coax needs to have a power supply connected [PI] and then you use a splitter to run a coax to each receiver/DVR.
Dish
|
splitter
||||
|||PI
||||
receivers

This is fairly simple and should be shown in the link I posted earlier.

Things get a bit more complex when you want/need more than eight tuners. This is went the SWM8 needs to be used as you can use more than one.
dish
||||
splitters
||||||||
SWM8s
splitters
||||||||||||
PIs & receivers.

[Xsabresx]

Dish
|
splitter
||||
|||PI
||||
receivers

You lost me with this one. Let's assume I dont change my LNB and want to add two receivers.

[veryoldschool]

Ok I got that, but in your picture (for 8 tuners or 4 receivers) you show one line coming from the dish. I currently have 4 lines from the dish. I only need one going to the splitter?
If you use the SWM LNB, [since it is at the dish] you only will use one cable from it.
Using the other option [SWM8] would need four cables running to it and then the single wire from it.

[veryoldschool]

Dish
|
splitter
||||
|||PI
||||
receivers

You lost me with this one. Let's assume I dont change my LNB and want to add two receivers.
Well you need "some" SWM device.
The SWMLNB is the most common.
Not using it requires a SWM8:
dish
||||
SWM8
|
splitter
||||
|||PI
||||
receivers

[Xsabresx]

By George I've got it!!!

[Xsabresx]

If you use the SWM LNB, [since it is at the dish] you only will use one cable from it.
Using the other option [SWM8] would need four cables running to it and then the single wire from it.


I figured that part out after I re-read what you wrote so I deleted it. :)

[Tonedeaf]

Well you need "some" SWM device.
The SWMLNB is the most common.
Not using it requires a SWM8:
dish
||||
SWM8
|
splitter
||||
|||PI
||||
receivers

This is basically my intended install once I get my SWM8, splitter and PI.

The PI can be anywhere in the home right, does not have to be next to a receiver. I intend to have it up in my attic with all of my other wiring/multi switches etc.

Glad this thread is helping some others understand this. :D

[veryoldschool]

This is basically my intended install once I get my SWM8, splitter and PI.

The PI can be anywhere in the home right, does not have to be next to a receiver. I intend to have it up in my attic with all of my other wiring/multi switches etc.

Glad this thread is helping some others understand this. :D
The PI should have 15' min of coax between it and the SWM8.
The SWM8 is made for outdoor use, while the PI isn't and using it in your attic may or may not be a good idea, as the temp range for the PI is less and shouldn't be used where heat is an issue.

[oldengineer]

Well you need "some" SWM device.
The SWMLNB is the most common.
Not using it requires a SWM8:
dish
||||
SWM8
|
splitter
||||
|||PI
||||
receivers

OH OH!!! I thought I had this figured out, but now I'm confused. I'm going to use the SWM8->splitter.... as shown, but I also don't have the SWMLNB. I thought (my old man always told me about what thought did) I had to leave the 4 down leads from the LNB connected to the 6X8 multiswitch and use 4 outputs of the 6X8 to feed the SWM8 multiswitch. Did I misunderstand other threads or are both solutions OK or .........?????

[Tonedeaf]

The PI should have 15' min of coax between it and the SWM8.
The SWM8 is made for outdoor use, while the PI isn't and using it in your attic may or may not be a good idea, as the temp range for the PI is less and shouldn't be used where heat is an issue.

Thanks I missed the comment on the .pdf you linked yesterday that the PI must be located inside the home, makes sense as you mentioned due to the heat issues and distance it should be from the SWM.

[veryoldschool]

OH OH!!! I thought I had this figured out, but now I'm confused. I'm going to use the SWM8->splitter.... as shown, but I also don't have the SWMLNB. I thought (my old man always told me about what thought did) I had to leave the 4 down leads from the LNB connected to the 6X8 multiswitch and use 4 outputs of the 6X8 to feed the SWM8 multiswitch. Did I misunderstand other threads or are both solutions OK or .........?????
OK, you need "either" a SWMLNB or a SWM8, can't use both.

With the four coax from your current dish, these would go to the SWM8.

Why keep the WB68?

If you have many old receivers that don't work with a SWM, then you use [more] splitters between the dish and the SWM to feed the WB68 [parallel with the SWM8] and these need to have a power passing port for the SWM side to drive the LNBs in the dish.

[Beerstalker]

No the 4 leads from the dish go directly into the SWM8. It replaces the 6x8.
The power inserter has to go anywhere between the SWM8 and the receivers. If you are hooking it up between the splitter and the receiver make sure it is on the power passing side of the splitter, the splitter usually has a red insert in the connector to show which port is power passing.

[oldengineer]

Thanks for the quick answers guys.

[oldengineer]

45 years after college graduation I still have the dream where I have to take a final for a class that I never bothered to attend. Its always a relief to wake up after that.

I now feel that way about my impending SWM conversion and have another stupid question. I bought on Ebay an SWM8 multiswitch with power supply and an 8 way splitter. There are many combo purchases like this available. Now I'm thinking that the power supply mentioned may not be the power inserter that I need. Am I right here? Do I also need to get a 29V power inserter to complete my installation.

Hopefully that's my last question and I'll wake up soon and find out that everything's OK.

[veryoldschool]

45 years after college graduation I still have the dream where I have to take a final for a class that I never bothered to attend. Its always a relief to wake up after that.

I now feel that way about my impending SWM conversion and have another stupid question. I bought on Ebay an SWM8 multiswitch with power supply and an 8 way splitter. There are many combo purchases like this available. Now I'm thinking that the power supply mentioned may not be the power inserter that I need. Am I right here? Do I also need to get a 29V power inserter to complete my installation.

Hopefully that's my last question and I'll wake up soon and find out that everything's OK.
I don't use any 8-way splitters because they are more loss than I need. You don't really want anymore outputs than you need, since any unused need to have a termination and why waste power into a resistor?
What PI do you have?
The PI 29/28 volt is what "should be" used with the SWM8.

[oldengineer]

I don't use any 8-way splitters because they are more loss than I need. You don't really want anymore outputs than you need, since any unused need to have a termination and why waste power into a resistor?
What PI do you have?
The PI 29/28 volt is what "should be" used with the SWM8.

I may have panicked prematurely here. I just looked at the item I bought and the picture shows a SWM8R1-03 switch and a PI 29Z "power supply" which I think is OK. On your good advice I'll pick up a 4 way splitter, which is all I need, especially since I'm currently not using my D12 box.

[Tonedeaf]

Got my SWM, PI and a 4 way splitter in the mail yesterday.

Started to hook up the SWM and put the PI next to a receiver and made the necessary connections. Went into the attic and removed one of the WB68's to connect the SWM to the lines coming from the sat. Hooked all up connected the line from the SWM to the splitter and then connected the line from the PI to the splitter. All seems fine.

Plug in the PI, and test out the HD-DVR I just connected and goes through the satellite setup and recognizes the SWM and proceeds to load and gets to picture. Success. 2 tuners showing :)

But, when I go to any other receiver that is connected to my second WB68, I get Searching for Satellite :(

What did I do wrong? Tried to reset other receivers, but they all come back Searching for Satellite.

[veryoldschool]

Got my SWM, PI and a 4 way splitter in the mail yesterday.

Started to hook up the SWM and put the PI next to a receiver and made the necessary connections. Went into the attic and removed one of the WB68's to connect the SWM to the lines coming from the sat. Hooked all up connected the line from the SWM to the splitter and then connected the line from the PI to the splitter. All seems fine.

Plug in the PI, and test out the HD-DVR I just connected and goes through the satellite setup and recognizes the SWM and proceeds to load and gets to picture. Success. 2 tuners showing :)

But, when I go to any other receiver that is connected to my second WB68, I get Searching for Satellite :(

What did I do wrong? Tried to reset other receivers, but they all come back Searching for Satellite.
Would help if you could post a picture of the WB68/SWM & splitters, "but"
First check that the splitters feed the same inputs on the WB68 that they do on the SWM.
13 volt to 13 volt
18 volt to 18 volt,
etc.
This is the most common problem.

[Tonedeaf]

Would help if you could post a picture of the WB68/SWM & splitters, "but"
First check that the splitters feed the same inputs on the WB68 that they do on the SWM.
13 volt to 13 volt
18 volt to 18 volt,
etc.
This is the most common problem.

Will take some pics and be sure that the connections from the splitters are connected to each switch the same way. Thanks.

[Tonedeaf]

Would help if you could post a picture of the WB68/SWM & splitters, "but"
First check that the splitters feed the same inputs on the WB68 that they do on the SWM.
13 volt to 13 volt
18 volt to 18 volt,
etc.
This is the most common problem.

That was it. Lined them all up and voila, all was fine. :) Thanks for your help. :biggthump:goodjob:

[shadough]

Only 2 things I can add here. Make sure the B-band converters are removed from ALL receivers that ARE connected to the SWIM, leave the ones that are connected to the WB68. 2nd, The splitters as I understand it, need to be power passing on only ONE side correct? Whereas the splitters used before the switches (SWiM/WB) need to be ALL PORTS power passing, an thus these would then not be recommended as splitters to use to the tuners? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[veryoldschool]

Only 2 things I can add here. Make sure the B-band converters are removed from ALL receivers that ARE connected to the SWIM, leave the ones that are connected to the WB68. 2nd, The splitters as I understand it, need to be power passing on only ONE side correct? Whereas the splitters used before the switches (SWiM/WB) need to be ALL PORTS power passing, an thus these would then not be recommended as splitters to use to the tuners? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Sorry, but you seem to be a day late & a dollar short.
Splitters that pass power on all ports will work fine.
Splitters that pass power on only one port must be used with a powered multiswitch [WB616 or SWiM8] and connected to it.

[shadough]

OK, well I wasn't quite sure about the splitters which is why I wanted someone to correct me if needed so thank you for that. As for being a day late......I dont "log on" very often :)