Archiving 721 programs to DVD+RW

[tmyd]

Ok, I'm looking to tap into the expertise of many of you out there.

My situation is this: I have a Dish PVR721 and a Philips DVR985 DVD recorder, which I'm using to archive programs from the 721's hard drive via the S-video out.

My question is this. Based on the DVD Recorder's following records settings:

HQ, 60 minutes, 720x480 resolution (Full D1), 9.72 MBits/sec bitrate
SP, 120 minutes, 720x480 (Full D1), 5.07 Mbits/sec
SP+, 150 minutes, 720x480 (Full D1), 4.06 Mbits/sec
LP, 180 minutes, 360x480 (HalfD1), 3.38 Mbits/sec
EP, 240 minutes, 360x480 (HalfD1), 2.54 Mbits/sec
EP+, 360 minutes, 360x480 (HalfD1), 1.80 Mbits/sec

and based on the average lines of resolution from Dish Network's programming (which I'm guessing varies depending on the channel and the compression used),

what what be the best record setting for me to use -- without wasting needless disc time?

Thanks in advance for any help. :)

[dfergie]

I archive certain programs from my 501 and my 6000, to my panasonic dmr-e30. It has about the same settings, but is a dvd-r. I do not go any lower res than the sp mode and lower than that and the PQ suffers.

[TomCat]

Like df, I also use a E30. I find that the 2-hour setting is very acceptable, while not quite as good as the original. Settings below that seem to have a quantum jump down in quality reflected by the lower rez used, and just don't cut it unless its something you can watch "without watching", like MLB or Letterman. Actually, "The Simpsons" works pretty well in 4-hour mode, probably due to the fact that the original video is by its own nature "automatically quantized" to a few bit levels, cartoons not having subtle luminance changes and all.

Recordings made at the 4-hour setting seem to be significantly lower in quality even than the mid-level settings on a standalone Tivo or Replay (DISH PVR quality spoils you. If I were using 4D or C-band, the 2 hour setting might not be good enough!). I use DVD-RAM only, as it allows erasures and new records just like a HD.

As far as trying to match settings with DISH to maximize PQ without wasting space, its kind of a moving target, because although some channels have ceilings on them, statmux varies the bitrates dynamically, and when more bits are needed, if lucky, you might even get them. VBR is also used, but its only within a 2% window or so due to the consumer-level decoders being unable to keep up.

It's also actually two processes (digital files played back as analog recordings, then redigitized within your DVDR) so there is no real one-to-one relationship at work there, and its more based on what works best than any synergy between DBS bitrates and your analog-to-DVD bitrates encountered when archiving. Unfortunately, the DCM climate has made direct digital copies unwieldy enough to be too much trouble, and although the technology is right there, analog archiving is all we really have. Sucks for us.

My E30 uses VBR also, and the meters vary greatly from 1.5 to as much as 7 or 8 Mbps on 2-hour-rate playbacks. Using XP it sometimes reaches 12, which is the rate many professional video servers are set for. Recording garden-variety DBS, that's probably overkill (unless you need the DD). My advice? Make some test recordings and see what works for you.

I don't know if you have this feature (I wish mine had the 150-minute setting yours has) but mine will calculate the setting based on how much media space is available. If I have a disc with 90 minutes left and try to record a 2-hour movie, it will squash the bit rate to fit. Since I prefer the faster rate, I leave this feature disabled and just pay attention to having enough space in the first place.

[gcutler]

Have a PC based DVD Writer, but have used several different encoders and they usually are pretty close. For what thats worth, I usually use between 4 & 5 Mbit/sec and it is usually outstanding. I've gone above and at least my eyes did not notice much difference. 3Mbit/sec may still be acceptable. but I would not go below it unless you really just want bulk.

With the 721 keeping a recording constant, its not like you can't try every setting to see how that compare (using identical recording). If you can use DVDRW all the better, but at around $0.50-$2.00 per blank DVDR you can experiment without wasting more than 10 bucks (and the experiment might be worth keeping, if a friend wants you to archive something, show them "The experiement" and let them pick the PQ. No need to use analogies...)

[Chris Blount]

I agree with gcutler. The 5 Mbits/sec setting is usually the best for archiving. I've noticed that anything above that is only marginally better and not worth the disc space unless you are archiving something important.

[dfergie]

When I archive off my 6000, from HD downconverted , I try to stay with the xp mode, and surprisingly my ram discs seem to have better PQ than the rw's.

[johnsbin]

I also have a 721 and a Philips 985. I have recorded from the PVR thru the S-video jack. I keep the recording time to SP+ or better which means 2.5 hours or less. I have had very good results and I really like all the options that DVD+RW gives you over any other format available.

With the Compatibility Bit Setting, my dvd's play anywhere and I can still erase, re-record, change bit-rates, use vbr, add and delete chapters, and hide chapters. Those are just a few of the things you can do with DVD+RW.

Of course, it would be nice if there was a way to driectly dump the mpeg-2 files from the 721 rather than having to re-encode everything in real-time but I'll take what I can get!

[Chris Blount]

With the Compatibility Bit Setting, my dvd's play anywhereThat's a biggy right there. With the +RW or +R format, the bit setting allows discs to be played on almost any player. Probably more so than the -R format although that debate is for another thread. :)