Running a second line for install

[dataz722]

I am having someone come out wednesday to install an HDDVR in our 2nd floor bedroom. Currently I only have one coax line in there. Under the basic install would it include running a line from the basement to the second floor?

I have been wanting to do this myself along with a cat5 line but I really can not find an easy route to run it. I have done my share of pulling lines before but the way our house is I would need to knock a couple differnt holes in the drywall on the first floor to get it up to the second.

Pretty much where is the line drawn between a basic and an extra charge for an install? And if they do run it what do you think the odds are that I could get the tech to pull up some cat5 along with the coax? :D

[hilmar2k]

The installer will run a second line, but [likely] not fish it through the walls without an extra fee. Same for the coax.

[dataz722]

If he isn't doing it through the walls how is he going to run it? I wouldn't put it past them but I kind of doubt they would just lay it on top of the carpet and run across the house, up the stairs and back across the house upstairs and just leave it exposed.

[Beerstalker]

No, he will probably drill a hole through the side of your house. Then run the cable up the side of your house and drill another hole into the bedroom and bring it back into the house. He'll then run the wire across the floor to wherever the TV is.

You may want to consider upgrading your system to a SWM install yourself, or paying someone to do it, so the DVR upstairs only needs 1 wire.

[joe diamond]

Have the cat5 ready where the pull will start (often from the inside out). The tech will probably be able to pull the coax and the cat5 together. Provide tape.He probably will not have the rj45 fittings or crimper to terminate for the ethernet. He will be able to connect one pair to a surface jack to connect the receiver.

A few bucks for the extra effort to do the double pull couldn't hurt.

Expect surface wiring...cavity work is extra and some techs don't even know what it is.

Joe

[dataz722]

No, he will probably drill a hole through the side of your house. Then run the cable up the side of your house and drill another hole into the bedroom and bring it back into the house. He'll then run the wire across the floor to wherever the TV is.

You may want to consider upgrading your system to a SWM install yourself, or paying someone to do it, so the DVR upstairs only needs 1 wire.

If thats what they would do then I will just do it myself. I can do it, it will just be a royal pain in the ass to do. I currently have a DVR in that room with only one line right now and I can live with the new one being like that too until I get around to doing it. I am considering the SWM but I would like to have cat5 run to the 2nd floor anyway so if I am doing one it would be nothing extra to do both.

[Shaqdan]

You really just need to be sure it is all laid out in your install agreement before-hand. I've had bad luck getting the techs to do anything outside of exactly what they were there to do.

So make sure they have on paper that they are supposed to show up, deliver the goods, and run a line or two.

[tech24218]

You really just need to be sure it is all laid out in your install agreement before-hand. I've had bad luck getting the techs to do anything outside of exactly what they were there to do.

So make sure they have on paper that they are supposed to show up, deliver the goods, and run a line or two.

For the last year ive been told that running a second line is mandatory on all dvr installs (minus swm). When the tech goes to activate your dvr he is going to have to pass an installation verification checking the signal strength on both tuners. There was a point in time when you could call into ISS and get a waiver but my local market won't allow us to do that now.

As far as a 2 story wall fish with the Cat5 I would charge you $200.00. That's 50.00 per floor and wire. You never know what you'll get into on a wall fish. Some will take 10 minutes others will take me 2 hours for one cable.
If I was to run the cable outside of your home I would try to go up a gutter down spout and in between the soffit to my entry point. or possibly tuck the cabling into the siding if that's an option. Those two I would do for free and if you wanted to tip me for taking the cat5 with me I would appreciate that. But then again I'm a pretty nice guy.
The more I sit here and type the more scenarios I can come up with to do your job. Some free, some with custom charges. Either way your tech should do both an exterior and interior site survey and approve it with you before ever working on anything.

[hilmar2k]

For the last year ive been told that running a second line is mandatory on all dvr installs (minus swm).

Not true......at least for me.

EDIT: My DVR that had only one line might have been installed by me (can't remember).

[dataz722]

For the last year ive been told that running a second line is mandatory on all dvr installs (minus swm). When the tech goes to activate your dvr he is going to have to pass an installation verification checking the signal strength on both tuners. There was a point in time when you could call into ISS and get a waiver but my local market won't allow us to do that now.

As far as a 2 story wall fish with the Cat5 I would charge you $200.00. That's 50.00 per floor and wire. You never know what you'll get into on a wall fish. Some will take 10 minutes others will take me 2 hours for one cable.
If I was to run the cable outside of your home I would try to go up a gutter down spout and in between the soffit to my entry point. or possibly tuck the cabling into the siding if that's an option. Those two I would do for free and if you wanted to tip me for taking the cat5 with me I would appreciate that. But then again I'm a pretty nice guy.
The more I sit here and type the more scenarios I can come up with to do your job. Some free, some with custom charges. Either way your tech should do both an exterior and interior site survey and approve it with you before ever working on anything.

I live in a townhouse with a brick front. There really is no way that I can possibly think of to hide an outside run. I already hate how the line from the dish is exposed going to the ground so I really don't want another one coming back up.

To get past the signal strength test would it be possible to just switch the one wire to the other tuner and move it on the multiswitch too. That would simulate a different line.

Who should I call before hand just to make sure? Directv or should I find out who the installer is going to be and call them.

[hilmar2k]

I can't see them refusing the install if you refuse the second line.

[BattleZone]

I can't see them refusing the install if you refuse the second line.

Happens hundreds of times every day. DirecTV no longer allows techs to activate receivers if both lines aren't working, due to far too many techs who would "activate and run" and leave the customer with one line. If the tech can't close the job, which is what happens in this case, then the tech must remove the receiver and take it with him and cancel or reschedule the job. Since techs know this, they won't begin a job unless they can get both lines there.

So... you have these choices:

- Run the line ahead of time, the way you want to
- Pay the tech to run it the way you want to, or
- Accept the "standard" installation, which is running the cable on the outside of the house.
- Acquire the receiver from a retail and do the install yourself. Customers can get a waiver; techs can't.

[dataz722]

- Run the line ahead of time, the way you want to
- Pay the tech to run it the way you want to, or
- Accept the "standard" installation, which is running the cable on the outside of the house.
- Acquire the receiver from a retail and do the install yourself. Customers can get a waiver; techs can't.

Hmm Well that sucks.
Don't have time to run it ahead of time.
Can't afford to pay him to do it.
REALLY don't want it done standard

I guess I will call them and see what they can work out for me.

[hilmar2k]

Hmm Well that sucks.
Don't have time to run it ahead of time.
Can't afford to pay him to do it.
REALLY don't want it done standard

I guess I will call them and see what they can work out for me.

Why not buy it retail and hook it up yourself?

[dataz722]

Why not buy it retail and hook it up yourself?

Because I got them to give me $100 off. I am going to call them and see if that will still stand if I buy it retail. If not then if there is anything I can work out with them. I would even write up and sign a waiver that I am not holding the tech to test both lines.

[hilmar2k]

Because I got them to give me $100 off. I am going to call them and see if that will still stand if I buy it retail. If not then if there is anything I can work out with them. I would even write up and sign a waiver that I am not holding the tech to test both lines.

Good chance they'll honor it, especially if you explain the situation.

[BattleZone]

The thing is that the system isn't set up to honor "exceptions." Like many things with such a huge company, the rules are enforced with little regard to the circumstances, and it's always the tech who gets caught in the middle. Most techs have learned that if something like this comes up, the smart thing to do is leave immediately and reschedule, because the other alternative is to waste your time and money and end up not getting paid for it.

I don't mean to be difficult; I'm just telling it like it is so that you aren't surprised that the tech isn't able to honor what the CSR promises (again, something that happens hundreds of times every day). CSRs will tell you almost anything, and freely make promises that techs are expected (by the customer) to keep, but often, they can't be kept.

If the OP is going to proceed, expect difficulties and wasted time.

[hilmar2k]

The thing is that the system isn't set up to honor "exceptions." Like many things with such a huge company, the rules are enforced with little regard to the circumstances, and it's always the tech who gets caught in the middle. Most techs have learned that if something like this comes up, the smart thing to do is leave immediately and reschedule, because the other alternative is to waste your time and money and end up not getting paid for it.

I don't mean to be difficult; I'm just telling it like it is so that you aren't surprised that the tech isn't able to honor what the CSR promises (again, something that happens hundreds of times every day). CSRs will tell you almost anything, and freely make promises that techs are expected (by the customer) to keep, but often, they can't be kept.

If the OP is going to proceed, expect difficulties and wasted time.

I was talking about DIRECTV honoring the discounted price if the OP buys the DVR localy.

[dataz722]

I hadn't even thought about it before but the dish and multiswitch are in the basement at the front of the house and the bedroom I want it going to is on the back side of the house. In a standard install how would they wandle that? Go up the front of the house and over the roof or across the basement and out the back wall and up that way?

[ndole]

Your best bet is to purchase a SWiM Module online. It's your easiest, least expensive, best looking option. Also, in the near future, you'll be able to run Ethernet through that same coax. So a SWiM module eliminates most if not all of your problems, and at a relatively low cost/headache.

[dataz722]

Your best bet is to purchase a SWiM Module online. It's your easiest, least expensive, best looking option. Also, in the near future, you'll be able to run Ethernet through that same coax. So a SWiM module eliminates most if not all of your problems, and at a relatively low cost/headache.

I want the CAT5 up there anyway so I will be doing that no matter what. I was actually just thinking about the SWM but know nothing about them. Are they pretty much just a splitter that will work with sat? Will this (http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=02&p=SWS-2&d=DIRECTV-SWS2-Satellite-2Way-Wide-Band-(2-2150-MHz)-Splitter-(SWS2)&c=Satellite%20Splitters&sku=SWS-2) one be what I need? Would the installation company carry them instead of ordering online?

[jdspencer]

I don't have a second floor in my house but I've used the plumbing stack area to run lines from basement to the attic. The run to whatever room the line is needed. since you are going to a second story bedroom, is the bathroom connected? Maybe you could do something similar?

What you linked to is used in an SWM installation to split the SWM line. Do a search on 'SWM' for more information.

[joe diamond]

Happens hundreds of times every day. DirecTV no longer allows techs to activate receivers if both lines aren't working, due to far too many techs who would "activate and run" and leave the customer with one line. If the tech can't close the job, which is what happens in this case, then the tech must remove the receiver and take it with him and cancel or reschedule the job. Since techs know this, they won't begin a job unless they can get both lines there.

So... you have these choices:

- Run the line ahead of time, the way you want to
- Pay the tech to run it the way you want to, or
- Accept the "standard" installation, which is running the cable on the outside of the house.
- Acquire the receiver from a retail and do the install yourself. Customers can get a waiver; techs can't.

Hey Battlzone, Joe again!

I found a variation on what you mention. The cx was upgrading to a DVR. The MASTEC dude "ran out of DVRs" right there in front of the address. SO the DirectSat USA wonks rescheduled it as an a/o + "tech to bring DVR per cx order." There was a significant wall fish + I got the order about sundown on a Sunday...scheduled for the previous Saturday.

My choice was to do a job that was already one day late...called the cx and told him there would be a minimum $60,00 charge,,,waited for a call........never got paid for the DirectSatUSA part. Charged the cx more after doing all tasks.

I am trying to find good things to say about the HSP system.....

Joe

[BAHitman]

Why not just move an existing DVR to the bedroom, and have the guy install the new DVR in the place that already has 2 cables in it (if you have that already...)?

OR

put a TV in the basement and have him install it there... either way they install it, and you move it when they are done... 1 cable and all, until you get around to either buying a SWM or running the 2nd line...

[joe diamond]

Why not just move an existing DVR to the bedroom, and have the guy install the new DVR in the place that already has 2 cables in it (if you have that already...)?

OR

put a TV in the basement and have him install it there... either way they install it, and you move it when they are done... 1 cable and all, until you get around to either buying a SWM or running the 2nd line...

Now you are getting a feel for the game!

Joe

[BAHitman]

Now you are getting a feel for the game!

Joe

it just seemed like the logical thing to do... :cool:

[dataz722]

Why not just move an existing DVR to the bedroom, and have the guy install the new DVR in the place that already has 2 cables in it (if you have that already...)?

OR

put a TV in the basement and have him install it there... either way they install it, and you move it when they are done... 1 cable and all, until you get around to either buying a SWM or running the 2nd line...

That is brilliant!!! I am usually the one to come up with solutions like that too but don't know why I didn't,.

[dataz722]

Ok, one last question. I have been reading about the SWM8. I know that directv does satellite upgrades for free usually. Would this fall under that and be free as well? Or do you always have to spend $100+ for everything to get it running.

[carl6]

I don't think you'll get an SWM8 for free.

[Beerstalker]

The SWM8 is a different kind of multiswitch that most Techs don't usually have with them. It is not normally used for residential installs.

If you already have a 6x8 multiswitch in place at your house then it would be very easy for you to install the SWM8 yourself. You can also find them on ebay a lot of the time much cheaper than other places.

[oldengineer]

The SWM8 is a different kind of multiswitch that most Techs don't usually have with them. It is not normally used for residential installs.

If you already have a 6x8 multiswitch in place at your house then it would be very easy for you to install the SWM8 yourself. You can also find them on ebay a lot of the time much cheaper than other places.

I just finished switching from the 6X8 to an SWM8 multiswitch and, like Beerstalker says, its not hard to do. You can get a good multiswitch/PI/splitter package on Ebay for $50-75 bucks.

[dataz722]

I just finished switching from the 6X8 to an SWM8 multiswitch and, like Beerstalker says, its not hard to do. You can get a good multiswitch/PI/splitter package on Ebay for $50-75 bucks.

I am already catching hell from the wife for spending what I have just to get the new box. She wouldn't be too happy if I added another 50-75 onto it.

[tech24218]

The thing is that the system isn't set up to honor "exceptions." Like many things with such a huge company, the rules are enforced with little regard to the circumstances, and it's always the tech who gets caught in the middle. Most techs have learned that if something like this comes up, the smart thing to do is leave immediately and reschedule, because the other alternative is to waste your time and money and end up not getting paid for it.

I don't mean to be difficult; I'm just telling it like it is so that you aren't surprised that the tech isn't able to honor what the CSR promises (again, something that happens hundreds of times every day). CSRs will tell you almost anything, and freely make promises that techs are expected (by the customer) to keep, but often, they can't be kept.

If the OP is going to proceed, expect difficulties and wasted time.

That sounds just like the handout they gave me describing my job description!

[ndole]

That sounds just like the handout they gave me describing my job description!

I can't believe tech#'s are already in the 24,000's. Gese. C--H-U---RN.

[wallfishman]

well I was going to suggest doing it for you till i read the dont want to spend no money part !! tell the tech to throw the wire on the floor and run it up the stairs to where you want it. that way you will have the good copper cable to do it yourself. townhouses are harder to wire , but there should be a way. theres next to the sewer stack, next to the chimney, a return air duct , or alot of times the firewall of townhouses is built on ferring strips and you can get fishsticks up that way. i start in the unfinished part of the basement and try sending up next to a few things first. then see if any walls with returns line up. I put a comcast filter right on the cable and drop it all the way down. usually the double wide vents are the ones that goe all the way down. then stick a right angle drill in their and drill up thru the top plate into the attic.. If you need it done im in Newark customtechwiring@yahoo.com. I have cat5e and everything to terminate it on the truck.

[tech24218]

I can't believe tech#'s are already in the 24,000's. Gese. C--H-U---RN.

we have techs working out of our warehouse with 30,000 numbers

[dataz722]

well I was going to suggest doing it for you till i read the dont want to spend no money part !! tell the tech to throw the wire on the floor and run it up the stairs to where you want it. that way you will have the good copper cable to do it yourself. townhouses are harder to wire , but there should be a way. theres next to the sewer stack, next to the chimney, a return air duct , or alot of times the firewall of townhouses is built on ferring strips and you can get fishsticks up that way. i start in the unfinished part of the basement and try sending up next to a few things first. then see if any walls with returns line up. I put a comcast filter right on the cable and drop it all the way down. usually the double wide vents are the ones that goe all the way down. then stick a right angle drill in their and drill up thru the top plate into the attic.. If you need it done im in Newark customtechwiring@yahoo.com. I have cat5e and everything to terminate it on the truck.

Thanks for the offer but since I am phsyically able to do it I would rather not pay someone. How much do you think you would charge though. Just to get an idea in case I get too pissed off.

It isn't going to be easy since I don't have a chimney, and there are no vent or anything that runs into the basement. I have a fishtape and flex bit so I am going to knock a hole in the wall in the spare bedroom drill through the footer and try and get it down to the basement. Then from the spare bedroom get it up into the attic. It is an outside wall so I will have to deal with snaking it through the insulation so it's not going to be fun. I am going to try and have the fish tape run so when he gets there just have him clip in the coax and pull it up. If not I am just going to see if he will run it up the stairs just for the install and I will do it later on.

[hombresoto]

I can't believe tech#'s are already in the 24,000's. Gese. C--H-U---RN.
Tech 6179, i've been doing this for WAY too long.... lol...

[hombresoto]

Thanks for the offer but since I am phsyically able to do it I would rather not pay someone. How much do you think you would charge though. Just to get an idea in case I get too pissed off.

It isn't going to be easy since I don't have a chimney, and there are no vent or anything that runs into the basement. I have a fishtape and flex bit so I am going to knock a hole in the wall in the spare bedroom drill through the footer and try and get it down to the basement. Then from the spare bedroom get it up into the attic. It is an outside wall so I will have to deal with snaking it through the insulation so it's not going to be fun. I am going to try and have the fish tape run so when he gets there just have him clip in the coax and pull it up. If not I am just going to see if he will run it up the stairs just for the install and I will do it later on.
You will save so much time and frustration just by paying a couple hundred dollars to have a (competent) tech do this work for you. The fish tape isn't going to do it for you, it's a waste of time for you to try.
This is just my experience with over 10,000 installs.... YRMV

[dataz722]

You will save so much time and frustration just by paying a couple hundred dollars to have a (competent) tech do this work for you. The fish tape isn't going to do it for you, it's a waste of time for you to try.
This is just my experience with over 10,000 installs.... YRMV

I don't pay someone to do something that I can do myself and have control over. Thanks for the advice though. A friend and myself took care of it in about an hour and half the other night and since I did it I know it is up to my standards. As an installer I can see why you would think that the majority of people wouldn't be able to handle it but that doesn't mean that no one can.

Also, why would you say that the tape would be a waste of time? It worked fine.

[hombresoto]

Usually fish tape isn't really that helpful, or efficient, although it can work in some situations. Glow sticks usually work much better, or a long flex bit if you're just going through the wall from the first floor down to the basement. Without seeing your situation, it's impossible for me to give advice on what the best method would have been. I am glad you were able to get it done yourself and in so little time, kudos! I said what I said because I have seen too many customers cause damage to their homes trying to do this kind of work themselves and didn't want you to suffer the same fate.

Thanks for the offer but since I am phsyically able to do it I would rather not pay someone. How much do you think you would charge though. Just to get an idea in case I get too pissed off.

It isn't going to be easy since I don't have a chimney, and there are no vent or anything that runs into the basement. I have a fishtape and flex bit so I am going to knock a hole in the wall in the spare bedroom drill through the footer and try and get it down to the basement. Then from the spare bedroom get it up into the attic. It is an outside wall so I will have to deal with snaking it through the insulation so it's not going to be fun. I am going to try and have the fish tape run so when he gets there just have him clip in the coax and pull it up. If not I am just going to see if he will run it up the stairs just for the install and I will do it later on.

[wallfishman]

I don't pay someone to do something that I can do myself and have control over. Thanks for the advice though. A friend and myself took care of it in about an hour and half the other night and since I did it I know it is up to my standards. As an installer I can see why you would think that the majority of people wouldn't be able to handle it but that doesn't mean that no one can.

Also, why would you say that the tape would be a waste of time? It worked fine.

of course with 2 of you things get done in an hour and a half. just for curiousity explain in detail what you did. hopefully you didnt drill thru your footer because in delaware they are 32 inches underground ! congrats on handling it yourself though good job. i learned alot of things by trial and error. its not rocket science, but experience is better then any tool sold at home depot.
I quoted a job last week 75 dollars for running a line thru the attic and fishing down 1 interior wall on the second floor. ive done maybe 5000 of those. anyway he didnt do it and did with another tech. next tech had no clue and when he thought he was drilling into the attic and shoving the wire in, he actually drilled into the daughters bedroom. he called me said he cant find wire in attic and customer starts yelling its sticking thru daughters wall. I told him to tell customer you get what you pay for !!. now he has a hole in wall, big hole in siding, and who knows what other mess.

[dataz722]

of course with 2 of you things get done in an hour and a half. just for curiousity explain in detail what you did. hopefully you didnt drill thru your footer because in delaware they are 32 inches underground ! congrats on handling it yourself though good job. i learned alot of things by trial and error. its not rocket science, but experience is better then any tool sold at home depot.

I already had a hole in the wall in our spare bedroom from years ago that I have never got around to patching so I used that and with a flex bit drilled down through what I thought was called the footer in that wall/header of the one below. I guess from your post that is not actually what is is called though. Then downstairs in the living room I cut out a hole the size of a single gang box about a foot off the floor. I used this to drill another hole to go down into the basement and also to quide the fish tape that was dropped from the second floor into the basement. I pulled the line up into the spare bedroom and then got up in the attic, drilled another hole, dropped the fish again then pulled the line from the spare room into the attic. Ran it across the attic and then down into the wall behind the tv.

Oh and the hole in the living room I put in a old work single gang box and just put a blank plate over it. That made it a lot easier than patching and and painting.

[wallfishman]

I already had a hole in the wall in our spare bedroom from years ago that I have never got around to patching so I used that and with a flex bit drilled down through what I thought was called the footer in that wall/header of the one below. I guess from your post that is not actually what is is called though. Then downstairs in the living room I cut out a hole the size of a single gang box about a foot off the floor. I used this to drill another hole to go down into the basement and also to quide the fish tape that was dropped from the second floor into the basement. I pulled the line up into the spare bedroom and then got up in the attic, drilled another hole, dropped the fish again then pulled the line from the spare room into the attic. Ran it across the attic and then down into the wall behind the tv.

Oh and the hole in the living room I put in a old work single gang box and just put a blank plate over it. That made it a lot easier than patching and and painting.

thats sounds like a good job. you sound like you know what you are doing. you should invest in some fishsticks for jobs like that. there is almost always a way to fish from the basement to the attic with fishsticks. not only that but its much safer. drilling down blind like you did is the most dangerous of custom work, i hate doing that. thats when you screw something up !! but now you dont have to worry about that anymore , you have a path !! good job. i was just joking about the footer. the bottom 2x4 of a wall is the bottom plate. the top 2x4 of a wall is usually doubled up 2x4s and thats called the top plate. a header is what is usually doubled up2x12s over top of doors and windows to structually hold the weight of the opening. a footer is the concrete that is 32 inches underground that your whole house is built on.
I may have missed it but what did the directsat guy do for you the other day ?

b.

[dataz722]

thats sounds like a good job. you sound like you know what you are doing. you should invest in some fishsticks for jobs like that. there is almost always a way to fish from the basement to the attic with fishsticks. not only that but its much safer. drilling down blind like you did is the most dangerous of custom work, i hate doing that. thats when you screw something up !! but now you dont have to worry about that anymore , you have a path !! good job. i was just joking about the footer. the bottom 2x4 of a wall is the bottom plate. the top 2x4 of a wall is usually doubled up 2x4s and thats called the top plate. a header is what is usually doubled up2x12s over top of doors and windows to structually hold the weight of the opening. a footer is the concrete that is 32 inches underground that your whole house is built on.
I may have missed it but what did the directsat guy do for you the other day ?

b.


Its actually my friends fish tape, we did a ton of stuff in house in the past couple years and I think we are just about finally done. We should have probably got the sticks to start with. I've never used them before but I think I can imagine what they would be like.

The installer just layed the wire along the floor and up the stairs and just left it like that. He did make me write and sign a little waiver saying that I was talking all responsibility of it. Which I thought pretty understandable. All in all it was a very easy stop for him.