HD Without Stretch-O-Vision

[Avder]

Hey everyone

I got DirecTV a month or go, HD DVR and everything, and it's great. I can actually see the puck when I watch hockey now. But the problem I have is that I can't stand the HD channels that use stretch-o-vision for SD content. It drives me crazy because I can't stand watching anything that's not in its corect aspect ratio. My grandma is one of those people who willingly activates stretch-o-vision on her SD cable and I cant stand watching TV much when I'm over there.

So my question is this: does anyone have a list of which HD channels use Stretch-O-Vision on SD shows (excepting infomercials and commercials...they can stretch them to heck for all I care), and which channels actually broadcast in the true SD aspect ratio where appropriate? I'd like to take some of the SD feeds out of my guide, but only if the corresponding HD channel wont drive me crazy with its silly putty action.

Thanks!

[gphvid]

Hey everyone

I got DirecTV a month or go, HD DVR and everything, and it's great. I can actually see the puck when I watch hockey now. But the problem I have is that I can't stand the HD channels that use stretch-o-vision for SD content. It drives me crazy because I can't stand watching anything that's not in its corect aspect ratio. My grandma is one of those people who willingly activates stretch-o-vision on her SD cable and I cant stand watching TV much when I'm over there.

So my question is this: does anyone have a list of which HD channels use Stretch-O-Vision on SD shows (excepting infomercials and commercials...they can stretch them to heck for all I care), and which channels actually broadcast in the true SD aspect ratio where appropriate? I'd like to take some of the SD feeds out of my guide, but only if the corresponding HD channel wont drive me crazy with its silly putty action.

Thanks!

While I do not have a list, I do know that TBS and Food Network and Cartoon Network have been stretch-o-vision violators. I'm sure there are many others, but those do come to mind at the moment.

[BattleZone]

TNT as well.

[miketorse]

IMHO the Discovery family of networks do a wonderful job of up-converting SD shows without stretching. They use a semi zoom technique that works well.

[Avder]

IMHO the Discovery family of networks do a wonderful job of up-converting SD shows without stretching. They use a semi zoom technique that works well.

Semi zoom?

[miketorse]

Semi zoom?

Maybe another person has a better way of describing it. Sorry! Check out TLC HD sometime and you might be able to catch an example. It's much better than the stretch though.

[ciurca]

I hate stretch-o-vision. My first HD tv was a rear projection crt, which had screen burn from the pillar boxes within 1 year. Still better than stretch-o-vision.

[Avder]

Would be good if they could make those black bars not so perfectly black. Change pixels often enough that it doesn't burn in, but subtly enough that you'd have to be looking for it in the black bars to notice it.

I wonder if some of those programs that just display ever changing pixels that are used to fix stuck lcd pixels could be used to reverse burn in?

Also, are there any HD networks that are EXCELLENT about keeping content in its original aspect ratio? So far the only ones Ive seen are ESPN, NHL Network, and the premium movie channels (well, not original aspect ratio, but a real good cropping job to make the movie 16:9, sorta how most VHS movies were cropped intelligently to 4:3).

[Maruuk]

HDNet, MGM-HD, there are a lot of channels that NEVER use Stretch-O-Vision and always maintain the original aspect.

Why do TNT and TBS insult the viewers thusly? I mean, just to save a few bucks because they had the rights to some old films on SD tape lying around? I can't believe how cheesy that is. Heads look REEDICKLESS in SOV. People all turn into ALIEN.

[LCDSpazz]

It's a lot like the colorization of b&w movies that was tried in the '80s. It's a ridiculously stupid practice that tries to please the "why isn't this filling my screen" crowd. I hope it dies out like colorization did. Turner cables nets even use stretch-o-vision even on recent shows like Bones. It's pathetic.

[oldfantom]

Would be good if they could make those black bars not so perfectly black. Change pixels often enough that it doesn't burn in, but subtly enough that you'd have to be looking for it in the black bars to notice it.

I wonder if some of those programs that just display ever changing pixels that are used to fix stuck lcd pixels could be used to reverse burn in?

Also, are there any HD networks that are EXCELLENT about keeping content in its original aspect ratio? So far the only ones Ive seen are ESPN, NHL Network, and the premium movie channels (well, not original aspect ratio, but a real good cropping job to make the movie 16:9, sorta how most VHS movies were cropped intelligently to 4:3).

I thought burn in was a thing of the past. I have a projection LCD, so not an issue. Until I decide to upgrade.

[BattleScott]

IMHO the Discovery family of networks do a wonderful job of up-converting SD shows without stretching. They use a semi zoom technique that works well.

Semi zoom?

Maybe another person has a better way of describing it. Sorry! Check out TLC HD sometime and you might be able to catch an example. It's much better than the stretch though.

It's called a 14:9 aspect ratio. Half-way between 4:3 (12:9) and 16:9.
It's used alot on Discovery for shows that were shot as 4:3. It allows for a smaller amount of the vertical image to be cropped and smaller sidebars to be used.

In simple terms, instead of zooming the image to a full widscreen image and cropping the vertical all the way to someones forehead, they zoom out out half way and crop to the vetical to the top of their head.

[Avder]

Ah, in other words its stretch-o-vision light.

Thanks.

[miketorse]

Ah, in other words its stretch-o-vision light.

Thanks.

With zoom, I wouldn't say that there is any stretching involved.

[BattleScott]

No stretching, only zoom and crop. No "big elbows".

[raoul5788]

HGTV is another channel that stretches some content. That really bugs me. They shows ads in 4:3, but programming gets stretched. Go figure!

[Tom Servo]

It's called a 14:9 aspect ratio. Half-way between 4:3 (12:9) and 16:9.
It's used alot on Discovery for shows that were shot as 4:3. It allows for a smaller amount of the vertical image to be cropped and smaller sidebars to be used.

In simple terms, instead of zooming the image to a full widscreen image and cropping the vertical all the way to someones forehead, they zoom out out half way and crop to the vetical to the top of their head.

Seems like the advertisers would get miffed about the tops and bottoms of their products (and fine print!) getting cropped off the screen. It sure annoys me.

[trainman]

Seems like the advertisers would get miffed about the tops and bottoms of their products (and fine print!) getting cropped off the screen. It sure annoys me.

The A&E family of networks stretches their commercials (as far as I can tell while fast-forwarding on the DVR). I'm surprised the advertisers haven't complained -- particularly Jenny Craig, Weight Watchers, and such, given that the stretching makes people still look fat "after." :D

[Avder]

With zoom, I wouldn't say that there is any stretching involved.

True I spose, but it's still taking the content out of its original aspect ratio. Now, if this is a full-fledged professionally done studio-endorsed crop job to make it more viewable on 16:9 TV's I can handle it (Isn't Seinfeld doing that?), but if it's some kind of computer controlled algorithm doing it on on the fly, I still group it in with anything else considered stretch-o-vision.

[Steve Rhodes]

Hey everyone

I got DirecTV a month or go, HD DVR and everything, and it's great. I can actually see the puck when I watch hockey now. But the problem I have is that I can't stand the HD channels that use stretch-o-vision for SD content. It drives me crazy because I can't stand watching anything that's not in its corect aspect ratio. My grandma is one of those people who willingly activates stretch-o-vision on her SD cable and I cant stand watching TV much when I'm over there.

So my question is this: does anyone have a list of which HD channels use Stretch-O-Vision on SD shows (excepting infomercials and commercials...they can stretch them to heck for all I care), and which channels actually broadcast in the true SD aspect ratio where appropriate? I'd like to take some of the SD feeds out of my guide, but only if the corresponding HD channel wont drive me crazy with its silly putty action.

Thanks!

I agree with everything you say, but I'd go one further.

I can't stand watching SD anymore whether is stretched or not.

SD is so ugly on a big HD set that I can't stand it. Life is too short to watch ugly television.

[Jables]

Turner cables nets even use stretch-o-vision even on recent shows like Bones. It's pathetic.

That one makes me die inside. The show is shot 16:9 in HD, why are they not just showing that on TNTHD? Gah.

[CCarncross]

That one makes me die inside. The show is shot 16:9 in HD, why are they not just showing that on TNTHD? Gah.

I could be wrong, but they may not have the HD syndication rights.

[Avder]

I agree with everything you say, but I'd go one further.

I can't stand watching SD anymore whether is stretched or not.

SD is so ugly on a big HD set that I can't stand it. Life is too short to watch ugly television.

I watch a lot of internet video, so I guess I'm just used to looking more at the content of the programming rather than too much into how its presented, aspect ratio violations excepted of course.

So, can anyone think of a list of networks that DONT screw too much with the aspect ratio?

[Tom Servo]

I watch a lot of internet video, so I guess I'm just used to looking more at the content of the programming rather than too much into how its presented, aspect ratio violations excepted of course.

So, can anyone think of a list of networks that DONT screw too much with the aspect ratio?
Hmm, let me see.

CNN, ESPN1/2/U/News, NFL, MLB, Tennis, NHL, NBA, Golf, The 101, Spike, USA, Syfy, FX, Comedy Central, MGM, Universal HD, Smithsonian, Bravo, Nat Geo, Disney, Disney XD, Nick, ABC Family, QVC, MTV, VH-1, BET, Palladia, CNBC, Fox News, Fox Business, and then none of the premiums or regional sports channels as far as I know.

BBC-America does a 14:9 compromise like the Discovery channels. Beyond that, I don't know.

[Avder]

Hmm, let me see.

CNN, ESPN1/2/U/News, NFL, MLB, Tennis, NHL, NBA, Golf, The 101, Spike, USA, Syfy, FX, Comedy Central, MGM, Universal HD, Smithsonian, Bravo, Nat Geo, Disney, Disney XD, Nick, ABC Family, QVC, MTV, VH-1, BET, Palladia, CNBC, Fox News, Fox Business, and then none of the premiums or regional sports channels as far as I know.

BBC-America does a 14:9 compromise like the Discovery channels. Beyond that, I don't know.

You are my hero!

Now, heres another HD related question. My HDTV is a 720p TV, but 1080i still looks decent on it. Should I set the D* receiver to just convert everything to 720p, or will my TV to a better job of it? Ive got it set to native resolution mode with 480p, 720p and 1080i modes allowed currently.

[DodgerKing]

Hmm, let me see.

CNN, ESPN1/2/U/News, NFL, MLB, Tennis, NHL, NBA, Golf, The 101, Spike, USA, Syfy, FX, Comedy Central, MGM, Universal HD, Smithsonian, Bravo, Nat Geo, Disney, Disney XD, Nick, ABC Family, QVC, MTV, VH-1, BET, Palladia, CNBC, Fox News, Fox Business, and then none of the premiums or regional sports channels as far as I know.

BBC-America does a 14:9 compromise like the Discovery channels. Beyond that, I don't know.

DirecTV broadcast QVC in HD?

[mx6bfast]

So my question is this: does anyone have a list of which HD channels use Stretch-O-Vision on SD shows (excepting infomercials and commercials...they can stretch them to heck for all I care), and which channels actually broadcast in the true SD aspect ratio where appropriate?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=914099

[Tom Servo]

You are my hero!

Now, heres another HD related question. My HDTV is a 720p TV, but 1080i still looks decent on it. Should I set the D* receiver to just convert everything to 720p, or will my TV to a better job of it? Ive got it set to native resolution mode with 480p, 720p and 1080i modes allowed currently.

mx6bfast's link has a LOT more than what I came up with.

As for your TV, I dunno. If you feel like fooling around, try setting it up so the D* box converts everything to 720p and then compare it to the picture your TV gives downconverting on its own. Go with whichever looks better. ;)

DirecTV broadcast QVC in HD?

No, but as I understand it they don't stretch any live content.

[Avder]

Okay, this is just f*cing inexcuseable. I tuned to Cartoon Network HD because they were going to show a show that is actually 16:9 content to begin with, and not only are there issues with the sound fading out randomly, but they letterboxed it, vertical squish-o-vision. I tuned to the SD feed of cartoon network and set the format to crop mode, and it looked fine.

Anyone know the email for cartoon network so I can vent my spleen all over the appropriate network exec?

[loudo]

I have to join the Stretch-O-Vision haters club. As soon as I see a program in Stretch-O-Vision, I grab the remote and start surfing. If a program is in 4x3 format, give it to us the way it was created and add the pillar bars to it.

If I was an advertiser and saw my product being advertised in Stretch-O-Vision, it would be removed from that channel immediately. Like the other night my wife was watching a show and I walked into the room and saw a diet food commercial on, in Stretch-O-Vision and this girl saying she lost 30 pounds. Well maybe she did, but she looked short and fat in Stretch-O-Vision. It kind of defeated the purpose of the commercial.

[joed32]

You are my hero!

Now, heres another HD related question. My HDTV is a 720p TV, but 1080i still looks decent on it. Should I set the D* receiver to just convert everything to 720p, or will my TV to a better job of it? Ive got it set to native resolution mode with 480p, 720p and 1080i modes allowed currently.

I have a 720p and I have an old 1080i that won't show 720p so I have only 480p and 1080i selected on the DVRs. I see no difference on the DLP whether it receives 720 or 1080 and converts. YMMV.

[Tom Servo]

My living room TV actually can uncompress stretch-o-vision, but only if it is linear. So I can take stretched content on, say, History or Biography or Cartoon Network and unstretch it, and it looks okay. But so few TVs have this feature, they really shouldn't mess with the incoming signal. I'd much rather the people who want to stretch all programming be allowed to do it on their own TVs, since all HDTVs have some form of zoom/stretch built in.

As for Cartoon Network, there's an address floating around here somewhere but it won't do you any good. I wrote a quick, concise and friendly letter to them asking them to change and got no response. Same for TNT and TBS. :mad: