One cable for dual tuner Tivo?

[wipeout]

Any word out there on DirecTv Tivo units only needing one line feed from the dish for dual tuner ability? I know Dish plans to or already has that for DVR's.

[scooper]

Not without special equipment. The normal install will be for 2 cables - one for each tuner.

[wipeout]

So if I want two tivo's and one standard I need 5 feed's correct? Will I be able to do this with the triple LNB dish alone or will I need some special switch?

[gcutler]

Any word out there on DirecTv Tivo units only needing one line feed from the dish for dual tuner ability? I know Dish plans to or already has that for DVR's.


Right now Dish only has Two Cables to the Dual Tuner 721 PVR. And I believe all future plans include 2 cables as well.

The only thing dramatic they are working on is the 322 & 522, which will have Two Tuners, but acutally allow 2 seperate outputs (so one phyical reciever can feed two tvs with two different programming) The 322 will be a regular reciever, the 522 will be a DVR reciever.

[DenR]

For Dish network, the new DishPro Plus technology in the Super Dish will allow one cable to serve both receivers in a duel receiver unit. This should work with the 322, 522, 721, and 921 receivers.

[wipeout]

Thanks DenR, I thought I saw something about that. But what about mky set-up question?

[DenR]

Thanks DenR, I thought I saw something about that. But what about mky set-up question?

I don't know of any options for this with DirectTV.

[Jacob S]

I wonder if that same devide will work with DirecTv to allow two tuners over one wire? I would think that, just like the switches, that it would not work.

[Wolffpack]

wipeout,

You will need 5 inputs. If you have a triple LNB dish with a multiswitch you'll need another, cascadable multiswitch. I have an Eagle Aspen S-4180-GX+ (5x8 switch) in a setup just like that. The 4 outputs from the dish go into the 4 inputs to the switch (the 5th is for antenna or cable). Then you have 8 outputs that can go to any DirecTV receiver. You can get more into on this at the Tivo Community (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/).

[dtanderson]

Has DirecTV ever come up with anything like this? One cable from the dish to a dual tuner receiver like DishNetwork. I am thinking about making the switch from Dish to Direct and I am trying to see what advantages/disavantages I will be seeing. I like having the ability to have a single line for a dual tuner box. DirecTV had NB recording unlike Dish and it appears that Dish will not be adding that feature for current customers like they had promised. Dish also charges a PVR fee per receiver and I believe DirecTV only charges the fee per account and not reciever??

[Wolffpack]

Not being a Dish customer I don't really know how Dish can run 2 tuners on one cable. I know with DTV the tuner switches between transponders as needed and each cable is a two-way street. Dish to tuner and tuner to dish.

DTV does charge only once for Tivo (or you get it free depending on your plan). I have 2 Tivo's but I'm on whatever plan includes the Tivo charge. I've come to terms with the fact I need to RG6's running to every room in my house.

If someone there could invent a device that could really manage multiple signals over one RG6 I'd get one. But it would probably run a few hundred bucks.

[Mike500]

I see very little incentive for DirecTV to develop stacked lnb and single line multiple outlet decoding technology for the masses.

DirecTV will probably continue to use the same technology that they currently have for many years to come; relying the installer to run the additional cable lines.

This is a simple problem free solution. Since DirecTV receivers are not generally software upgradable like Dish Network ones, all configuations must be hardware based in the switches and lnb's. This is why DirecTV stacking and unstacking hardware remains as low production high end MDU use components.

DirecTV still initially installs the standard one satellite position 101 18 inch round dish in markets where their locals remain at 101. Instead of investment in hardware on the subscriber's receiving end, DirecTV prefers to spend its money on spot beam satellites.

[larrystotler]

Actually, the new Hughes receivers support stacked LNBs, and with the new Ka sats to be launched, they will need an entirely new switch system, so it is very possible that when they start using the new Ka band sats, they will implement new HD receivers with MPEG4 as well as stacked LNBs since an HD box will need at least 4 locations at that point, and their current kludge system cannot be expanded any further. The new Flex port switches look like they merely insert the new sat locations onto the 119's unused trans, 1-7/9/11/13-21. Unless the Kas sats are totally spot and you only need 1 beam at your location, they will need a more robust system, especially considering that they are planning to offer up to 150 HD channels via conus by 2007. Using stacked LNBs and implementing a digital tone to the 22khz mode similar to what E* is using is their best bet. As for needing 2 lines, it does get old having to explain to people WHY their TiVo needs 2 feeds to work properly. It would be nice to see a DP+ style system. And, while the Phase III is a good design, unless you actually need spanish or HD, a standard 18 inch dish is all that you need.

[Mike500]

Yeah,

I know about the Hughes receivers. They were a special design for lease in MDU's.

Until there full implementation of HD receivers, there will be very little movement to the MPEG4 system.

Remember that there are over 10 million receivers out there in the installed base with more added daily. The card swap took years.

The more installed base there is; the less there is incentive to implement a new standard that requires replacement of receivers.

[larrystotler]

Actually, 12 million subs, averaging 2.5 recs per account(and growing) is about 26million recs. That's a lot to replace. :)

[Mike500]

I've been in the dbs business for nearly 10 years now.

All that the majority of customers want is simple reliable access to TV. When servicing dbs installs, I almost never see them hooked to anything more than channel 3/4, except for the high end installs done by custom home theater experts.

DBS gets a bad rap from marginal unreliable installs. Done right, a good install is really ultra reliable. Of the 1500 installs that I have done in the last 10 years, I get a service call about 2-3 times a year. I do, however, get numerous calls for fixing the so called "free fulfillment install."

DirecTV is going to keep the old boxes for the bread and butter customers as long as possible. They need to concentrate more on reliability of their installs.

[bonscott87]

You *can* buy a stacker/destaker setup for using dual tuners with one cable. However you are talking $250+ so just run a second cable.

[Bogy]

I can't see why this is so hard. My Motorola DVR provided by Cox Cable has two tuners with one cable. It also is compatible with HDTV, and provides a full array of connection options. I may be going back to DBS in the near future when I move, and I am surprised at how cable seems to have surpassed DBS in its equipment in the past 3 years.

[missileman]

I can't see why this is so hard. My Motorola DVR provided by Cox Cable has two tuners with one cable. It also is compatible with HDTV, and provides a full array of connection options. I may be going back to DBS in the near future when I move, and I am surprised at how cable seems to have surpassed DBS in its equipment in the past 3 years.

That may be true in some areas, but Comcast Digital cable sucks here. My D* pic quality is much better than cable......but of course, I can only speak for my situation.

[Bogy]

That may be true in some areas, but Comcast Digital cable sucks here. My D* pic quality is much better than cable......but of course, I can only speak for my situation.
That's why I spent a little time in Best Buy today looking at DTV equipment. I'm going to be moving sometime in the near future and I may very well want to go back to DBS. I'm a little surprised at the equipment I saw today. I'm spoiled by the box I got earlier this year. Dual tuner DVR, HDTV, any connection you might need, very nice and fast guide. Like I said, I'm spoiled by a very good cable company.

BTW, I really wasn't even talking about the PQ, although that is also very good here, but simply the boxes available.

[larrystotler]

I can't see why this is so hard. My Motorola DVR provided by Cox Cable has two tuners with one cable. It also is compatible with HDTV, and provides a full array of connection options. I may be going back to DBS in the near future when I move, and I am surprised at how cable seems to have surpassed DBS in its equipment in the past 3 years.

That's because cable works differently than sat. Cable occupies the 40-850Mhz band. Power is supplied at around 14Vs to boost the signal. Sat occupies the 950-1450Mhz band(with E*'s DP adding the 1650-2150Mhz band through stacking). Legacy systems like D* use 2 seperate voltages to send the signal back to the box. The 13V sends the odd trans, and the 18V sends the evens. The sat signals are cirular polarity so that they stack 768Mhz into a 500Mhz band. When you split a sat signal, you have the porblem of a power passing splitter sending back the trans with the higher voltage, and the power blocking one sending back the trans of the passing receiver. That's why it won't work. With E*'s DP, you can split 1 sat location since all the trans come back at the same time, but when you add in multiple locations, you have that problem. It has nothing to do with supassing, but how they implemented their systems. Cable is based on NTSC in some ways, whereas Sat is a completely diffent idea. If D* implemented a stacked LNB like E*'s DP, then you could run a dual tuner DVR on 1 line with a splitter so long as you only needed the 101.

Side note: DP+ - E* furthered the band stacking situation to created band translating. This basically makes the 1 tuner use the 950-1450Mhz band similar to a legacy LNB and the second tuner to use the 1650-2150Mhz band. The DP+ Seperator sends the appropriate signal to each tuner. This allow 1 cable with multiple sat locations. The only receivers this works with are the 322/522/721/921 tho. It does not work with any other E* receiver. However, this could be further expanded so that the DP+ Seperator could take the 1650-2150Mhz band and output it to the reciever at 950-1450Mhz, but it would require a lot more logic in the seperator than what they are using now.

Hope this helps.

[Bogy]

Thanks Larry, that's an answer to one question.